Persona 4 - Golden Star

[CriticalGaming]

The first Persona game I ever played was Persona 5, a game I thought was brilliant 10/10 without a doubt. While I played P5 friends of mine who've played other Persona games agreed that Persona 5 was good, but it wasn't better than Persona 4. P4 is the gold star mark on the Persona series where it appears like Altus mastered the formula for what the Persona games should be. So after I finished P5 in 2017 I got P4 on the Vita and played through it.

P4 is good but not better than P5, not even close.....or so I thought.

Persona 3 and 4 recently got ported to all current gen systems and you've already seen my thoughts on Persona 3, the one I hadn't played before the bundle released. However I've been replaying P4 on the Ps5 and it is a rather different experience playing it on my big television with good speakers to bop the boss soundtrack.

Persona 4 might be better than Persona 5 in most ways. But it's especially true when it comes to thematically. I remember laughing at how similar P4 felt to P5 when I first played it. Your main character is an outsider to a new town, in P5 its because you fuck with the wrong guy while trying to do good, and in P4 you need to be babysat while your parents work overseas for a year. It's an interesting contrast because in P5 your main character is a good guy who got punished for trying to be good, and as a result you kind of become a bad-guy by getting revenge on scumbag people. However where P5's story kind of falters is that beyond Kamoshida, your characters don't have a lot of reason to continue Phantom Theiving. The theme becomes rebellion and you are trying to take back piece of the world from corrupt manipulative figures, but the whole "stealing people's desires" is kind of emotional rape which makes the bad-guys confessed feel more like brainwashing than making a legitimate change in the world. P5's story and characters are still wonderful, but there are definitely holes in the theme.

Persona 4's themes don't have that jarring disconnect. Your character has reasons to do good because they are helping their friends against a genuine villain. You help because you not only have a special power that allows you to do so, but also because that power makes you really the only people who CAN help AND it's the right thing to do pretty much full stop. As a result it's tone is never shaken up or your immersion is never broken because you decide to randomly go after the mafia for some reason.

P4 is also where the layout of the game is solidified in a much better way. The two sided days, split between making friends and fighting evil works perfectly here, and it's mostly because the layout of everything makes more sense. In P3 one of the things I really struggled with was that there didn't seem much to your life or the story beyond battling against the Midnight Hour. However with P4 you have a much more fleshed out real life story that is only assisted by the Shadow World where all the RPG shit happens. And the story itself is much more personal to you the player, because it's almost entirely about making friends, and helping those friends battle their inner turmoil. All the while working towards solving a murder mystery and making even more friends along the way.

I will also say that the villain twist in P4 is a lot better than the twist in P5 where someone over hears a cat talking. The foreshadowing is more subtle and actually caught me off guard the first time I played, meanwhile I knew Mr. Ace Detective was an asshole the whole game.

Gameplay itself is where I get torn over the whole thing. Because P4's gameplay is more like P3 than P5, especially when it comes to the dungeon layout. Each dungeon in P4 has a theme much like the different zones in the Tartarus form P3. But the layout's all random and mostly the same in both games. P5 definitely wins out here because each dungeon there is crafted with different traversal types, story beats, and themes each time. P3 and P4 mostly have the same combat system as well, including the shuffle time card system after winning a battle where you can earn bonuses and new persona's after some fights. Whereas P5 actually had mechanics you needed to do in order to win over new Persona's to join your fight. P5 is simply more engaging.

All that being said, I do think that P4 takes what P3 tried to do and perfects it. For a game with random dungeons, and standard turn based combat, P4 is a much better and more polished game than P3.

Persona 3 was the expirament that mostly sort of worked, P4 perfectly the formula, and P5 expands on it but falters in the story telling. Though while I think P5 is the better game still, the flaws in the story are why people seem to prefer Persona 4 instead.

 

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I really like P4, but some of those dungeon themes get really f'ing grating. Best dungeon to show off to your parents or a date tho.

 

[CriticalGaming]

@Chimpzy Dude I thought you got hacked.

 

[Chimpzy]

@Chimpzy Dude I thought you got hacked.

Nope, just some mild PTSD from going through that dungeon.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Nope, just some mild PTSD from going through that dungeon.

Arsenugget, now the fucken song is stuck in my head.

 

[Chimpzy]

Arsenugget, now the fucken song is stuck in my head.

Yes, yeeeess, suffer. Suffer as I suffer.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Yes, yeeeess, suffer. Suffer as I suffer.

I refuse. I shall suffer in my usual way.

 

[gorfias]

Got the Vita version. I hear it is great but so far, barely scratched the surface. So far, kinda dull but I do have to give it more of a chance..

 

[meiam]

Mostly agree, playing them in order, P4 felt like massive step forward over P3 and P5 felt like the game got a much bigger budget but the writing staff got taken over by edgelord teens. Dungeon did get a bit too long, especially toward the end, there's only so much hallway I can tolerate. But, unlike P5, the game had a good system to force you to cut your dungeon session in multiple small chunk rather than one big block.

I mostly liked the cast so much better than P5 (and P3 to a lesser extent), I could actually see myself hang out with Chie/Yosuke and Teddie wasn't a constant presence so he didn't grate like the stupid cat. The adopted family you join also become endearing much earlier than the P5 one (I really liked Futaba, but she needed to be introduced in the first chapter rather than randomly show up in like the 4th one).

Also the ambience of the game is much cheerier, P3 is gloom and depression, P5 is edgy (punk if you're feeling generous) but P4 is pretty light hearted outside of the story, the music tends to be light, the colour scheme mostly borrow from warm and light colour and it feel like its in a warm location most of the time.

 

[Catfood220]

I've played a little bit and beat the first dungeon before getting addicted to Midnight Suns. And yeah, it seems like its good game, I will come back to it at some point.

But there is one problem in playing P5 first. In P5, awakening to a persona seems like a really traumatic event with the characters having to rip a mask off their face before they get their powers. In P4 it seems that all you need to do is basically listen to yourself say horrible things about you before your friends beat up a shadow. I can get a similar effect from smoking too much weed (which is why I don't smoke weed anymore). It just doesn't feel like the big deal that it does in P5 and that threw me off a bit.

Also, I got really used to Igor having a deep voice in P5. In P4 all I can think whenever he talks is "Ok Mr Burns".

 

[CriticalGaming]

Also, I got really used to Igor having a deep voice in P5. In P4 all I can think whenever he talks is "Ok Mr Burns".

Have you beaten P5?

 

[immortalfrieza]

I like the story and characters a bit better in Persona 4, though in the Golden version Chie's voice actress is just plain awful (if she was just a bit louder my ears would bleed and she couldn't possibly overact more) especially compared to her easily superior original Persona 4 actress. In Golden I ended up taking her out of the party and avoiding her as much as I could just so I could keep hearing her voice to a minimum, and originally Chie was one of my favorites in the cast!

However, the story and characters in Persona 5 are still pretty damned endearing, to the point that it took a while for me to genuinely decide I liked Persona 4's over Persona 5's. I think Persona 5 ultimately edges out due to having better mechanics. I was actually kind of wary when I found out that Persona 5 had preset dungeons as opposed to the mostly random ones of the previous 2 entries, but really, it just makes the dungeons more interesting because they can build specific challenges and the floors don't look so copy-pasted from each other. On the topic of dungeons, I found it pretty interesting that you had to go out of said dungeon a couple times and run around the real world doing or finding things to be able to progress. It's better than Persona 4 where it's not at all difficult to run through each dungeon in one go.

The fact that they threw in the Shin Megami Tensi demon recruiting as the way to get personas (personae? I don't know) was a definite plus. I don't have half as much interest in the rest of the series as I do in the Persona games so putting in more mechanics from it helps bridge the gap.

As for the story, both games have different themes, Persona 4 being finding the truth and Persona 5 being rebellion against a corrupt and apathetic society. I don't think either concept is worse than the other. Persona 4 having shadows be the parts of people that they repress about themselves and Persona 5 having shadows be the corrupt parts of themselves they hide from the public eye are both pretty good. I've always loved games that explore the psyche and both games scratch that itch from different angles. On a similar note, I like how in Persona 5 each party member gets their own awakening scenes as opposed to Persona 3 and 4 in which only the protagonist got one. I liked it even more that each awakening delved into the thoughts and feelings of the person involved.

Both games have their own definite villains, but while Persona 4 has a serial killer, Persona 5 has ultimately the whole of Japan as the villain, but the definite villains in that game are an entire group of people. I think with Persona 5 the Phantom Theft Targets become less personal to the group and more about trying to improve society after Futaba is much like how saving people from the Midnight Channel became less about saving people that the group personally knew and cared about after Yukiko and simply about saving anyone that got in trouble. In either case it made the group much more heroic, which I think is definitely needed in a story where the audience is supposed to actually root for the heroes.

I suppose I should admit I haven't actually finished any of the Persona games yet. I feel like all of them get kinda repetitive after a while so about halfway to 2/3rds through I tend to lose interest.

 

[Catfood220]

Have you beaten P5?

Yes and I realize the deep voiced Igor was an impostor. But P5 was the first Persona game I played and he is in the game for so long that that is what I got used to him sounding like that, if that makes any sense.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Yes and I realize the deep voiced Igor was an impostor. But P5 was the first Persona game I played and he is in the game for so long that that is what I got used to him sounding like that, if that makes any sense.

Yeah it does. I had the same reaction at first, but I also don't mind the Mr. Burns guy either.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Yeah it does. I had the same reaction at first, but I also don't mind the Mr. Burns guy either.

I haven't even beaten the game and I know about that twist. Really, it was pretty clever of Atlus, taking advantage of how often voice actors change in a series to mislead the audience into thinking it was still Igor.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I haven't even beaten the game and I know about that twist. Really, it was pretty clever of Atlus, taking advantage of how often voice actors change in a series to mislead the audience into thinking it was still Igor.

And since P5 was my first Persona game, I had no clue that wasn't just how Igor sounded. It really caught me up tbh because I had no basis of who the character really is.

What's really interesting about Persona is that P1 and P2 are NOTHING like 3,4,and 5. They were closer to regular SMT games, and maybe that's why the formula changed so dramatically in 3, which people really liked so they refined it to a point where I would say that if P6 was EXACTLY the same as 4 or 5 but with different characters, I still would be perfectly happy with that.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I like the story and characters a bit better in Persona 4, though in the Golden version Chie's voice actress is just plain awful (if she was just a bit louder my ears would bleed and she couldn't possibly overact more) especially compared to her easily superior original Persona 4 actress. In Golden I ended up taking her out of the party and avoiding her as much as I could just so I could keep hearing her voice to a minimum, and originally Chie was one of my favorites in the cast!

While the new voice actress is definitely questionable in her delivery... I dunno, I could never get into the original voice from the clips I've seen of the PS2 version. For someone who is supposed to be an energetic, ready to kick ass high school girl... it felt weird that she sounded so slow and like the was in her 40's

 

[immortalfrieza]

And since P5 was my first Persona game, I had no clue that wasn't just how Igor sounded. It really caught me up tbh because I had no basis of who the character really is.

Yeah that's the drawback to that particular tactic, if you weren't already involved in the series to begin with the twist doesn't work so well. However, at the very least that kind of meta work demonstrates that Atlus is interested primarily in attracting back fans of the series, rather than just catering to the lowest common denominator like a lot of games.

What's really interesting about Persona is that P1 and P2 are NOTHING like 3,4,and 5. They were closer to regular SMT games, and maybe that's why the formula changed so dramatically in 3, which people really liked so they refined it to a point where I would say that if P6 was EXACTLY the same as 4 or 5 but with different characters, I still would be perfectly happy with that.

I took a glance at P1 and P2 long after I had already played P3 and P4 the fact that it has nothing to do with the rest of the series is what killed my interest in those 2. I was introduced to Shin Megami Tensi to begin with with SMT 3: Nocture and while I liked it well enough the story was pretty bland. I think I'm far more interested in it's spinoffs that are growths of the system SMT started like Persona 3 and Digital Devil Saga than I am in the SMT base games themselves and P1 and P2 are too much like the base SMT games to catch my interest.

I hope that the first 2 Persona games get full remakes that bring it up to snuff with the rest of the series someday. That, and a full remake of Persona 3 that fixes the issues with it, and the PSP version isn't enough in my view.