That's up to the UK really. I wouldn't want one more of that type of guy in my country, and there's no diplomatic downside, so I'd agree with their decision.
'Pick-up artist' banned from the UK
- Thread starter Parasondox
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No, as a survivor of abuse, I'd say letting people like him express their views to be a slap in the face. Any and all sexual crime, especially violent sexual crime, has a strong and deep psychological factor, this can not be underestimated. Beyond the actual actions of the person, the psychological effect can be deeply damaging, when asked what they recall, most survivors will recall the attackers face or eyes rather than the act itself. Simply experiencing someone with the same attitudes and behaviours, can be deeply unsettling. The behaviours ( 'magical power' ) this person, and people like him exploit are very similar indeed.Kathinka said:
"Magic power" :- Beyond that, as a performer, I'm well aware of many tricks that can be employed without ethical regard, you'd be surprised what you can 'make' someone do. it's even possible to 'make' someone believe that they chose or wanted something, mentalists, hypnotists and illusionists have been using these for centuries. Does he use these tricks? I've no idea ( I've not seen his 'stuff'), but i'd be surprised if he wasn't ( to some extent, in one form or another), from what I can tell most of these ' get any woman you want' systems rely on these sorts of thing. As someone who can use/do some of these tricks I'm painfully aware how easily they could be abused, to the point where I would never teach them, nor perform any such tricks on anyone who does clearly and explicitly consent beforehand.
I find justification of him very difficult to believe, whatever you think or believe, the UK government has decided there is enough evidence to deny him entry, thats good enough for me. Argue with people on here being biased, using edited youtube videos to promote an agenda, are you accusing the UK Government of doing the same? Frankly I'm going to side with the government here, as there is the possibility of their decision being legally challenged, I'm going to assume that they made their choice with the clear knowledge of whether it could be legally justified. For them to deny him entry they would need to show good cause to believe that he would commit a crime, for instance coming to the country to perform publicly in a way that breaks the law.
Thats not enough for him to not be allowed entry into the UK, it's not. him being under suspicion of a crime in another country, not enough. Evidence that his performances would break the law in this country, and his intention to perform? Enough, clearly in the eyes of the UK government, such evidence exists. You may dispute that, go right ahead, I'm going to side with a legal decision made by the legal authorities of my country.
Were he just a 'cocky asshole' with good presentation skills then he'd have been allowed in, there is clearly more to him than that. So what is the "actual discussion" that is being poisoned by facts ( yes facts, legal and currently legally undisputed decisions)?
I say let him in. If this asshole wants to make some incredible bank off telling slightly lesser assholes how to make fucking idiots of themselves in front of girls and get the shit kicked out of them by bouncers who don't have time for their stupid bullshit, let 'em have it.
Seriously now, where else but America would this kind of lunatic enterprise come from?
I'm neither mad nor offended. I'm impressed. It's the kind of shit I would pull if I wanted to sell my integrity.
Seriously now, where else but America would this kind of lunatic enterprise come from?
I'm neither mad nor offended. I'm impressed. It's the kind of shit I would pull if I wanted to sell my integrity.
Oh make no mistake, I'm not debating that he should have been let into the country. That's not what I was saying. I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of hysteria thrown around here that harms the legitimate complaints.Jesterscup said:
I've actually seen some of his stuff (I'll freely admit that I obtained it by..alternative means. Fuck giving that Douchebag money!) and there really is no wizardry to it. No hypnosis tricks, no rituals to gain favors with Hastur, just some pseud-scientific crap and a bunch of how to come across confident, cocky and desirable for females. He isn't teaching anyone any cheat codes to get the girl if she wants or not. He certainly doesn't teach anyone how to get away with rape or abuse. The basic thing is: You aren't protected from anyone's attempts of coercion or manipulation. Everyone does it, you do it, I do it, he does it. If stuff like that interests you, read up on social manipulation and its principles, it's a very educational and useful topic.
He also isn't currently, from what I could find, being charged or investigated. The girls in question in Japan apparently either were OK with his dickish behavior or didn't see it as a big enough deal to press legal claims against him. Despite the current viral campaign, remarkably. The reason why he was denied entry into the UK is because of the very loud public outcry. Even the nicest guy in the world would have been denied entry if it somehow would have raised the amount of hysteria that this clown did. But again, I'm not saying that it was wrong of the UK to deny him entry. Just pointing out that this doesn't mean he is a vile criminal serial rapist, just that enough people screamed loud enough.
The video of him harassing a cashier and forcing womens heads into his crotch has been posted. Thoughts?Topsider said:
EDIT: Nvm, dude likes dolls.
Pure supposition here, but Japan has a very different culture to the UK, I wouldn't make assumptions. It could very well be the case that coming forward to the police was far more shameful.
Are you aware that many many victims of sexual crime never report it? "not worth it?" do you know how high that bar really is? going to the police, the medical examinations, the chance of public ridicule, shaming, and all of this when you are dealing with the aftermath of a pretty darn horrific experience? Fact is I don't know what happened in Japan, even if I 'read' up on it I wouldn't have the facts, I'm not going to make a call one way or another.
Nope, again supposition, you can potentially infer that, but it really doesn't stand up as an argument. The only way to be absolutely sure would be for the visa application decision to be appealed in court ( which can be done), for for an FOI request ( which I suspect you'd have to wait 25 years for the information to be released). The only statement the home office gave was that the decision was taken "on public policy grounds" - this does NOT infer that it was based on public outcry, it is far far more likely that it was based on our already clearly defined visa criteria. The UK in it's time has let some truly horrific people onto it's shores, and against greater public dissent because there were no legal grounds to deny permission. In addition we've denied people and been forced to grant them access, despite ,again, public opposition.
In the absence of an appeal, I suspect, and will assume that his seminars are/would have been actually illegal in this country, I'll wait till the law says otherwise thanks.
I think we may have one or two of them but not to the extreme of stocking up on weapons for an invasion/war but mostly storing canned foods, meds and other things.piscian said:
I remember signing the petitions to ban him a couple weeks ago. That man encourages sexual assault, jesus christ he chokes women for fun and teaches men how to threaten women for sex. That is sexual assault right there, and eventually this dude will probably downright rape someone, it is a disgrace he hasn't been thrown into prison in one of the many countries he has committed incredibly obvious and disgusting crimes in.
They could let the guy in, allow him to speak, then have him arrested for violating the laws for encouraging others to commit crimes as well. However, I think they are choosing to avoid an international incident by just not allowing the guy who would have already broken UK laws if he had been on UK soil into their nation at all. It is illegal in many nations to encourage others to commit crimes, as well as sexual assaulting strangers is considered to be illegal as well.Czann said:
They are not allowing him in because he sexually assaulted women and is encouraging others to do so as well, That is against UK law, not because of a "vocal minority" LOL
And once again the UK don't have to accept anyone they don't want too and as others pointed out, its more than just an asshole being an asshole but an asshole who is advocating a crime. Any nation can deny anyone even the USA. As much as many may disagree with UK law, they take any kind of assault and physical action very very seriously. So the vocal minority may have shouted but its up the Home Office investigate themselves and they found something to justify the decision. Also no one compared him to Hitler, Mao and Stalin.Czann said:
The world isn't fair. He can reap what he's sown. This isn't a question of whether he's done something that deserves denial of a visa because of regulations on entry, it's a matter of one guy being such a gigantic prick that a country has said, "no thanks."
Thankfully, he's not being refused entry for "being an asshole." Nor were they under any obligation to let him in in the first place.Czann said:
But I suppose people are bound to reframe it as "PC bullshit," rather than address the actual story.
Generally, if you find a wild eyed guy in the barrens of Britain who looks lean, unshaven and wearing dirty combat clothes and is armed to the teeth, you assume he's a member of the armed forces on some punishing survival course and you make the poor sod a cup of tea and give him a mars bar or chocolate biscuit.piscian said:
Something to bear in mind when thinking about the UK is that we are very, very crowded here. Using comparisons to the US, Its an island nation you can drop into Oregon, with the population of the entire eastern seaboard of the USA. There really isn't space for a hidden, off the beaten track commune of survivalists because our wild spaces are small, tightly regulated national parks, and the rest is farmland blending into suburb.
(for figures, check out the CIA World Factbook, its a great resource. UK population as of 2014: 63,742,977 land area 241,930 sq km, US population as of 2014: 318,892,103, land area 9,161,966 sq km. You have almost exactly five times as many people, and 37 times the land area to put them all in.)
Also, those survivalist cells seem to be a distinctly American phenomena. I can't think of a single similar incident (for example) that is comparable to Waco in the entirety of Europe, let alone the UK.
interestingly enough, that article seems to indicate that he has cancelled his tour dates in Japan, which means the videos of him "picking up" women in Japan and photos of himself with his hands around women's necks may have gotten him banned from returning to Japan, or he may even be wanted there, most countries won't bother trying to extradite over misdemeanors or minor crimes, so it could also be a case of him not being able to come back without being arrested.Zeconte said:
Australia and Canada seem to both be on the list now of countries that don't want him there.
Interesting stuff really, he has a good start if he's working on being banned from traveling anywhere outside the United States, although, I'm not sure if that's a good thing, because if he can't travel that means he's stuck here in the same country as me, at least inflicting him on other countries kept him out of the U.S.