Pimpin Reviews: Dragon Age Origins vs Rise of the Argonauts

[Pimppeter2]

Spoiler: Heart Message from Pimpin

It's fitting that I reboot the Pimpin Reviews series with this review. For those who have been here long enough to remember, Rise of The Argonauts was my very first Review on the Escapist. Its been a bumpy year for Pimpin Reviews, with many ups and downs. So this is my catharsis, enjoy the many pimpin reviews to come.

[h4]Pimpin Reviews: Dragon Age Origins vs Rise of the Argonauts[/h4]​

Recommended music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_asfslbow

Tid Bits
-Thanks to Labyrinth for the Pimpin Banner
-I KNOW this is long. But it would be appreciated a lot if you comment, even if you don't read it all. Or post your thoughts half way through and then come back the next day. I've worked very hard on this.
-Any reply that says "TL;DR" that is not a sarcastic response and I will lose it.
-Thanks for commenting

Intro​

[img_inline caption=Dragon Age Origins
Platform: Xbox 360/PC
Genre: Dark Fantasy Role-playing
Modes: Single Player
Developer: BioWare width=200 height=300]http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID6894/images/dragon_age_origins_box_art.jpg[/img_inline]​

[img_inline caption=Rise of the Argonauts
Platform: Xbox 360
Genre: Action Role-Playing
Modes: Single Player
Developer: Codemasters width=200 height=300]http://static.gamecrazy.com/images/games/boxart/13246.jpg[/img_inline]​

I have been an RPG fan since I was a very little boy. To this day, The Elder Scrolls has been a major part of my gaming life; evident by the time, money, and even fan fiction I have put into it. With every major RPG release of the past years, one can usually find me in line ready to poor heart, soul, and time into these games. The title of this review may be a little tricky, because as usual with this series, this review is not a heated debate about which game is better. Instead, have you ever wondered why Dragon Age: Origins went Platinum Thrice [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.174163-Dragon-Age-Origins-Goes-Platinum-Thrice] while Rise Of the Argonauts fell into the dark void of "who cares". This review intends to point out what went wrong, and compare it to a similar game that went right. So buckle down, and get ready to have your very odd question answered.

The victim: Rise of The Argonauts

Released in the 2007 Holiday season, Rise of The Argonauts had promised not only to be the God of War killer for the Xbox, but also completely change what we have expected from the RPG experience as a whole. Going away from numerical stats and upgrades, and making the game more accessible to the action craving fans with its critical hits and non-scorecard combat, Rise of The Argonauts seemed to be the perfect game for anyone remotely interested in the lavish world of Greek Mythology. However, being released to lukewarm reviews and the utter indifference of the gaming community, one has to wonder, what went so wrong?​

Plot: Winner = Dragon Age: Origins​

In Rise of the Argonauts, you explore the vibrant world of ancient Greece, and fallow a plot loosely based on the Myth of the Golden Fleece. For those familiar with Greek mythology, it should come to no surprise that the games Protagonist is Jason, King of Iolcus. Who the Escapists very own Jordan Deam [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/5612-Review-Rise-of-the-Argonauts] was quick to point out is "in fact actually not a hybrid of lolcats and lolwalrus's, but rather an ancient city in northern Greece." The game starts you off at Jason's wedding, which for a King of a major city oddly only has a couple handfuls of guests. Tragedy strikes and your beautiful Wife Alceme is murdered by a mysterious group of assassins who worship the Titaness Hecate and believe her to be the true ruler of Tartarus. In Greek mythology, a person must be given last rites in order for their soul to pass on from this world and face judgment in the one above. Jason refuses to allow these men to win, and descovers that by useing the Golden Fleece he could undo what history has done in order to revive his fallen love. From there, we set of on a presumed to be epic quest to gather up descendants of the gods to march our way into Tartarus and turn back the clock on the evil plan of these devious foes.

Dragon Age's story is much simpler, but much more effective. Set in the savage world of Ferelden, our hero must stop both the civil war lying on the horizon as well as an invasion of demonic like creatures called Darkspawn. After creating a hero and playing through one of six unique origins stories, you join the Gray Wardens; a group of warriors who are key in uniting the lands and taking down the other world threat. While Dragon Age's story may not seem better on the surface, the style of telling it and the depth behind it are what makes the game a much more worth while experience.

Sadly, neither game features a Tits or GTFO option​

The impressive thing about Dragon Age is that while it stands by itself as a game, it has an entire lore behind each and every person. object, and site that you stumble across. Being loosely based on Greek mythology, that gives the developers of Rise of the Argonauts space to allow to create their own world in an already established setting. The problem however, is that we don't know which is the developers creation, and which was actual mythology. This isn't helped by other than the characters the game seems pretty vague, almost as if its trying to hide away inconsistencies.

Another major problem is the dialogue trees. In Rise of the Argonauts, the player gets to choose from one of four options that sides with one of four corresponding gods. There's Ares, Athena, Hermes, and Apollo; and if you haven't guessed it yet, the Ares options are variations of pseudo masculine bullshit, while the the Hermes options are variations of "wit". The biggest fault is that Jason is a set character, we can role play all we want an pick any option we choose, but that doesn't stop him from being the overall hero no matter how many Macedonians I tell to suck my Gyros. Sure, the same thing can be said for Dragon Age, but at least the choices are a bit more morally gray. And even while you're still the hero, its a more "ends justify the means" approach. If I chose to be the dick in Dragon Age, I am a dick to get the job done. If I choose to be a dick in Rise of the Argonauts, well, I'm just a dick. And that doesn't make for a very lovable character.

To an even worse extent, Rise of the Argonauts doesn't give the player enough control of the story, or even worse the conversation that you're in. The set conversation choices are unbelievably vague, and picking an option that you thought would start a fight will have you make empty threats for a couple of turns simply because there's no scripted fight scene for the segment. In Dragon Age, options have a much bigger effect on both the immediate effect as well as the overal outcome of the game. The most frustrating part of all of this was that there's no way for the player to interact with the cutscenes. Which in a modern RPG is something that just completely blows my mind.

Believe it or not this is also his orgasm face​

Basically, while Dragon Age's story is not necessarily better than Rise of the Argonauts, the method it is told is far the superior. Quite frankly, Rise of the Argonauts is not a role-playing-game. Decision making hardly matters, and when the option is presented its mostly just for niche appeal. Role playing with Jason would have been more fun, if the character would have had some personality in the first place. Switching from passive aggressive behavior to over the top showboating from sentence to sentence is as schizophrenic as it sounds.

Gameplay: Winner = Tie​

Now, this may come as a surprise, but Dragon Age could learn a thing or two about combat from Rise of the Argonauts. Both games allow the usage of various weapons, tactics, and styles. However, RotA combat is much more involving and aesthetically pleasing. The control schemes for both games are pretty simplistic, but pulling off a kill in Dragon Age is never as satisfying as brutally beating a satyr.

In Rise of the Argonauts, Jason is able to use four weapons; each dedicated to one of the four corresponding gods. The sword, agile and nimble is the tool of the quick footed messenger god Hermes. The Shield, protective and glorious is preferred by the sun god Apollo. The spear, strategic and deadly is the weapon of the Athena; the goddess of wisdom. And lastly, the vigorous and powerful mace is the favored of the God of War Kratos Ares. The most fun comes with the ability to quickly interchange these weapons mid battle. Wailing on a guy with your mace until his head cracks and then sticking your spear through his ribs is just orgasmic. There plenty of tricks you can use to impale, behead, and dice your opponents.

Alistair uses sword slash! It's super effective!​

Conversely Dragon Age offers many weapons and styles, but limits them to different playthroughs. While specializing in more than one type of weapon or magic is plausible, its very inefficient. The game limits you to six power spaces, with potions eating up one or two spaces depending on style. Its not helped by the fact that there just not enough level ups in a playthorugh to full unlock the final powers in more than a handful of areas. So while you may do something clever like freezing an opponent and smashing him apart, critical hits like loping a darkspawns head off are too few to enjoy combat to the max.

The biggest problem of both games is that battles are awkwardly placed. Scrimmages in Dragon Age are often way too few, or way too frequent. In a heavily story based game like Dragon Age origins, its frustrating in the later levels to have to go through hordes of enemies to advance the plot. And it doesn't get much sweeter the second time around. Let's not beat around the bush, the combat in Dragon Age was a chore. Few entertaining sequences like plunging my blade through the heart of troll is not worth my five hundredth fight with another Hurlock Grunt. As for Rise of the Argonauts, there's simply not enough of it. After the opening sequence, its something like three and a half hours before you ever see foe again. For an action-rpg, thats inexcusable.

Speaking of unpardonable design choices, Rise of the Argonauts commits the most cardinal sin against RPG fans. I'm talking about no loot; nothing, nada, rein. Admittedly, its not much better for Dragon Age. The set inventory space and now where to store items is a hassle for some, and I never understood why my strength had to be higher for my warrior to wear certain pieces of heavy armor. I guess Bioware just has a sense of fashion; I wouldn't wear my level 200 leopard skin thong of awesomeness until I was at least a master in sexiness.

Don't believe this screenshot: the game is nowhere near as badass​

But in RoTA they didn't even try; There's only a handful of of armors, and absolutely nothing to pick up from enemies. To my shock each armor was worse than the last, and other than the starting armor and the one picked up on the last quest there is absolutely no other one anyone with a sense of taste would ever wear. There's a couple of different weapons which can be collected through quests, and which to its credit are actually pretty good looking and useful, but some weapons don't match with the armor types and frankly look silly on Jason's back. Combine that with a lack of an inventory system and it isn't exactly a pleasant experience.

Companions: Winner = Dragon Age​

Major features in both the advertising of the games as well as in the games themselves is the companions that you bring along. And a blind man could see that Bioware really knows how to make good companions. In RotA, you run into a dream team of Greek Mythology. From optimus prime look a like Hercules to badass action girl Atlantis, and while the characters look and feel good on the surface, they lack the depth and emotional value of Dragon Age. Its been a long time since I cared about other pixels in a video game, but I found myself not wanting to displease Allistar and took every chance to get closer to Morrigan.

The main problem is that there's not much interaction with the other Argonauts. While Herc and Jason share some serious bromance, the other characters really don't feel like they're ever needed. Achilles is also well developed, but this brings us to the next issue. RotA allows you to bring two other companions in any given mission, but with the serious bromance with Herc and Pan always complaining about being old and stuck inside, its hard to get to know any of the other Characters. There's no real personal missions like in DA:O, and without the intimacy bonus there was no real reason for a chauvinist like me to take along the female companion.

In case you were dying to know, she did get her tits out for me​

Other than that, there's no real way to dig into a companions desires and wants. There was this hot and sexy ex-foe that everyone was warning me about talking with and was constantly flirting with me, but with only a handful of subjects to talk about, there was no reason to ever come back to her. Conversations are very one sided, and unlike in Dragon Age feel very set and forced. There little to no animation going on between the characters who just stand in position and blurt out their deapest desires to a man they just met half an hour ago. Really developers? I thought we got over this last generation.

The only plus with these companion is that they were just plain awesome to use in battle; Herc would hold up smaller foes while I smashed them in bits, and at that part it really felt like the epic adventure it was supposed to be. However, without the emotional value to any of these characters it felt like a massive waste of time to talk to any of them.

Graphics and sound: Winner = Dragon Age​

Now Dragon Age isn't exactly what we'd call a looker, but RotA isn't something that is badly in need of a good polish. While the graphics do look a bit better than Dragon Ages', the constantly low frame rate and gigantic bumps in the ratio really make the game look unfinished. Tack that on with animation that looks straight up laughable, and you got yourself a product that needed about another couple of months more than from what it was released.

I still argue Oblivion still has the best companions​

Believe it or not, there is a method to my madness; there's a reason that the recommended music is a Dragon Age song. The music in DA:O just makes it feel like an adventure of unseen proportions, and from title screen to credit rolls the acoustics never miss a beat to impress -literally-. To be honest, there was no single theme or track from RotA that was the slightest bit recognizable. If you googled Generic combat music, I'm sure there's a couple tracks more interesting than anything in Rise of the Argonauts.

Verdict​

Its hard to judge a game on its own merits, and for that Pimpin reviews turns to its Vs series to find out just what went wrong. And from what we've seen, for Rise of the Argonauts its is quite a lot. Creating an epic adventure is more than just good combat. Looking back on RotA, there was not one single sequence that one defining sequence that would make this game unforgettable. Hype is a dangerous things, for popular games it can mar their reputation for years. But for lesser known games like Rise of the Argonauts, hype is the thing that leaves enthusiastic gamers more than a bit peeved. History has proved that Rise of the Argonauts was neither a genre defining game nor the God of War killer of our times, but a third rate bargain bin buy. An ambitious adventure, let down by lack of funds and abhorrent design choices.

You win this round, Dragon Age​

Disclosures: Dragon was obtained via [Retail] and reviewed on the [Xbox 360/PC]. Approximately [78 hours] of play was devoted to single-player modes (completed 3 times)



Disclosures: The Rise of the Argonauts was obtained via [Rental] and reviewed on the [Xbox 360]. Approximately [13.5 hours] of play was devoted to single-player modes (completed 1 times)

Spoiler: Reviews coming up!

• 
  Dragon Age DLC
  11th hour vs. NCIS/ NCIS plain
  Mass Effect 2
  Dragon Age:Origins Vs Rise of The Argonauts
  Adventure Quest (Flash)
  Empire: Total War
  Supernatural (possibly capsule only)
  Jak and Daxter: The Last Frontier vs Jak X
  Oblivion vs Dragon Age: Origins
  Condemned 1 (Request by Furburt)
  Okami
  Metroid Prime Trilogy (Request by NuclearPenguin)

 

[FlyAwayAutumn]

Dear lord that IS long. Don't worry I'll read the rest in a bit but I want to get this out of the way first.

I agree with your opinion entirely. If I tried to vocalise my opinion on this particular subject I could not end up with such a great review, truly this is how you say "Pimpin"

Edit: Alright done. I'm actually suprised to find out that i'm the very first on this thread. So *Ahem*
First
But seriously great review I dunno what else to say, other than you definitely carefully looked over the merits of each game, or not. Who knows?

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

RotA is 20 bucks. I'll pick it up, it not as bad as everyone made it sound after all. It's still bad, it seems. But playable bad.

 

[Neonbob]

Well, that was five minutes well spent.
Thanks for that, Pimp!
I'm guessing you'd like the usual fee?

 

[TheNumber1Zero]

*Begins Reading*

King of Lolcus. Ha!


*Reads more*

GTFO function, I could of used that in Dragon Age: Origins many times

*Reads even more*

I have to agree with you, the Combat In DA: O did make me think "Alright then, I place a Glyph, run like crap, and Shoot lightning at everything that comes near me. let's get this over with" when I prefer it to make me become giddy enough to shoot rainbows out of my pores.

*Reads still more*

No loot? RAAAAGEEE!

*Reads the rest*

I would say that was a well typed out Review, same as always. Job well done Pimpy, job well done.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Quite frankly, Rise of the Argonauts is not a role-playing-game. Decision making hardly matters, and when the option is presented its mostly just for niche appeal. Role playing with Jason would have been more fun, if the character would have had some personality in the first place. Switching from passive aggressive behavior to over the top showboating from sentence to sentence is as schizophrenic as it sounds.

Does this mean that you're one of those people who doesn't consider JRPGs to be RPGs?

 

[Dragon Zero]

I feel a little let down from the RotA word of mouth because it does seem like rich ground for a really kick ass game. Perhaps another day, someone will find a good way to make a RPG set in an Ancient culture's mythology because not only would it be interesting to play, but could also introduce many to these rich myths (he says while remembering that he's yet to finish reading the Icelandic Sagas) which I feel would do them some good. I have to say that if nothing else, you've reminded me that I need to finish DA:O. I love the game but I just haven't had time to finish with all the other games on my plate. Perhaps I'll warm up that disc tommorrow.

 

[Meggiepants]

Here I am from the Random Complaints thread. Bravo for a shameless shill! I actually really enjoyed your review. At first, I thought, "Ooh, what's this game he's talking about? I haven't played that one!" But then I read your review and thought, "Ohhh, that's why I never played it." Very good review. And I agree completely with your opinion of the DA battle system. Variety is the spice of... rpg fights! Hopefully the expansion will be a little more exciting in that area.

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

I must admit, when i first saw the title of this review, i thought you would be putting Dragon Age up against the movie XD As awesome as that would have been, i still very much enjoyed reading.
I must admit, i did enjoy the DA:O combat, but then again i played it on PC.
Still, if i see RotA for cheap i think i may just give it a whirl

 

[Therumancer]

Well, as I see things Dragon Age: Origins is actually an RPG, Rise Of The Argonauts isn't an RPG at all but claims to be one as an attempt to draw people in.

What makes an RPG is the idea that the stats are what determines the outcome of events, rather than your reflexs and actions as a player. Storyline and such have absolutly nothing to do with it. This is why say Nethack is an RPG, but Adventure games which are nothing but story are not.

It doesn't matter if you call a life bar "hit points", including upgradable weapons, or whatever else. If you hitting the buttons and fighting properly is the primarly influance then it's not an RPG. In Dragon Age, it was real RPG combat for the most part, which is unsatisfying for most people who are dedicated to action games and want that kind of a thrill. It was driven by stats, numbers, and invisible random die rolls. You had less outcome over what was going to happen than how you developed the numbers. Your "build" being more important than how fast you could click or manipulate a controller. The flashy graphics and deathblows involved were just icing on the cake when they existed.


The whole "Action RPG" label has been used as a cop out by designers who want to try and create action games with some customization options and hope they can both make action gamers feel "smarter" by saying it's an RPG, and rope in some of the RPG crowd as well.

An actual "Action RPG" is still stat based and has little to do with the abillity of the player. The "click fest" Diablo "Action RPGs" are an example because the outcome is determined by stats and numbers, you don't do much except click, however you do move in
real time. Real "action gamers" of course don't care for this because really there isn't anything they do that determines the outcome for the most part. It's all about managing resources, picking the right gear, and a good set of skills that compliment each other.

RPGS do not appeal to everyone, and less people than action games do. It's been this way for a long time (since gaming has become more mainstream).

Right now I feel that the RPG label is mis-used. Comparing Rise Of The Argonauts to say Dragon Age is sort of like trying to compare "Double Dragon" to the SSI Gold Box AD&D games back in the day. Even if someone decided to say that Double Dragon was an "RPG" due to the fact that both it and Dungeons and Dragons had the word "Dragon" in the title it would be the same as this comparison from where I'm sitting.

Sorry Pimpeteer, but I have to say I don't think this is one of your better comparisons because I at least feel that the games are differant enough to defy any real comparison.

 

[Asturiel]

Well, that was five minutes well spent.
Thanks for that, Pimp!
I'm guessing you'd like the usual fee?

Dont do it, he's buying drugs with it.

Also very good 5 minutes.

Good review Pimp, even though I never intended to buy either game now I have knowledge to spat about ignorantly ahahahahah!

Also theres your bloody post, I shouldn't have said nething!

 

[Neonbob]

Well, that was five minutes well spent.
Thanks for that, Pimp!
I'm guessing you'd like the usual fee?

Dont do it, he's buying drugs with it.

Also very good 5 minutes.

If he makes this stuff while buzzed, I'll happily supply his whacked out ass!
I like wasting my life with cool reads!

 

[Pimppeter2]

Well, that was five minutes well spent.
Thanks for that, Pimp!
I'm guessing you'd like the usual fee?

I'll give you a special discount.

Also, I saw in another thread that you showed interest in reviewing. I've helped SAS, Onyx, Nuclear Penguin, and others start reviewing. If you Ever want to get a review going, I would be happy to help.

Does this mean that you're one of those people who doesn't consider JRPGs to be RPGs?

Now. you're going to have to excuse me for dancing around the subject. I don't consider JRPGs RPGS, the same way I wouldn't consider Mass Effect 2 and RPG. Now go find the socks that I just blew off. I consider JRPGs a genre of their own.


EDIT: Also, you'll have to pardon me guys but I'll try to get through all your posts sooner or later.

 

[dmase]

I have to stop looking at threads that involve Dragon Age, FF13, or Bioshock 2 it makes me wanna just go out and buy it instead of waiting till they package the dlc with the game and i get a better deal.

Good review persuasive yet unbiased.

 

[Neonbob]

Well, that was five minutes well spent.
Thanks for that, Pimp!
I'm guessing you'd like the usual fee?

I'll give you a special discount.

Also, I saw in another thread that you showed interest in reviewing. I've helped SAS, Onyx, Nuclear Penguin, and others start reviewing. If you Ever want to get a review going, I would be happy to help.

Hooray! I love saving money.

...you are stalking me! I knew it!
*dances*

And thanks for the offer! If I ever work up the focus to review something, I'll pm you for some help.
*cheesy motivational thumbs up*

 

[Asturiel]

If he makes this stuff while buzzed, I'll happily supply his whacked out ass!
I like wasting my life with cool reads!

Dont we all? I'm not saying he's doing this while high, I'm saying he does this while sober then gets high with the money!!!!

Also, I saw in another thread that you showed interest in reviewing. I've helped SAS, Onyx, Nuclear Penguin, and others start reviewing. If you Ever want to get a review going, I would be happy to help.

Uh uh, eh I'd be a terrible reviewer never mind.

Wait I had something to say to you other than that.... OH YEAH Review Okami next.

Do it!!!!

 

[Neonbob]

If he makes this stuff while buzzed, I'll happily supply his whacked out ass!
I like wasting my life with cool reads!

Dont we all? I'm not saying he's doing this while high, I'm saying he does this while sober then gets high with the money!!!!

Well, he kinda deserves a reward for it, then.
Pay da man!

 

[Asturiel]

Well, he kinda deserves a reward for it, then.
Pay da man!

I only pay him for my prostitutes!

Unless hes pimping his reviews to me...WAIT NEVER I WONT BE SUCKED IN!...[sub]thats what he said[/sub]

 

[Neonbob]

Well, he kinda deserves a reward for it, then.
Pay da man!

I only pay him for my prostitutes!

Unless hes pimping his reviews to me...WAIT NEVER I WONT BE SUCKED IN!...[sub]thats what he said[/sub]

...what, did you think he only had hoes?
He obviously expanded to print media too!
Fucking entrepreneurial!