Piracy Numbers

[SSHdude]

This has been an entertaining read at least else I would not leave a comment, so here's my opinion.

I pirate because I can and it is convenient to do so. It saves money, and helps save up money for things that I do have to pay for. I spent $1200 on a computer system a year ago partly because I wanted a good gaming system, but also partly because I know that I can download most games I want to play. Throw rocks at me for what you will, but this is simply the best use of money for me. I am a student, don't have much income so pirating helps. Human beings have unlimited needs and if not for a limited supply and thus a price tag on goods society wouldn't be the same. To be able to download games for free is an exception to the general scheme of things, and you can see how desirable it is to do so just by looking at the piracy numbers.

Say what you will about being a jerk, comparing pirating to stealing and generally morals, the point is, if someone is comfortable with what they do, they will do it. Imposing one's own morals on someone else is useless as it is impossible. We live our own lives, our lives are affected by our actions, which are affected by our morals. Don't try to change other people.

There is the valid point that piracy hurts developers that probably everyone agree on. When my economic situation does improve in the future, I'll pay for games I play to help the people who made these games make more of them in the future. Also because it's convenient to just buy all the games rather than pirate them if money is less of an issue. I'm sorry if me pirating games now affect negatively the games industry but what can you do. Human beings put themselves before everyone else and that's just how it works.

Games that I have pirated and played/still playing include MW2, MW1, Dragon Age: Origins.

Games I will be buying in the future despite my tight budget include Final Fantasy XIII on 360, Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 on PC. Kudos to the people who made these games and convinced me to buy them.

 

[nonroker]

I bought Mass effect 1 and was then forced to copy a pirated copy from some-one at a LAN party anyway because the restrictive DRM was, well, too restrictive. I wouldn't have bought Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2 if they hadn't reduced their DRM to a simple disk-check. So Bioware got 2 more sales out of the fact that they *didn't* put in restrictive DRM. And I'm probably not the only one. I just really wish the publishers would wake the hell up. The people I knew who pirated Mass Effect were playing it months before me, because I couldn't get my retail copy to work (I live in a country with crappy band-width - which were a lot more crappy a few years ago).

If the publishers want to reduce piracy their product needs to better than the pirates' *not* worse.

In the past, it always seemed like Blizzard had the right idea. At lan parties there's always a great many pirates. That's a fact. But I can't recall any who had pirated Blizzard games. The reason? After sale support. Well-known pirates would proudly show off how they own original copies of every single Blizzard game ever released. And its all because they would still release patches years after release. And the thing about a patch is that you want the latest sexy balance changes (or items in Diablo2's case), but the patch would make your previous crack obsolete. Game crackers who upload torrents are primarily interested in being first to crack a game. They don't want to be cracking the game 10 years after its release.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

Wow. I didn't think Piracy was a big problem until I read this thread. Good lord you people are shameless. Pirating is the same as walking into a shop and taking one of the games off the shelves and walking out. Except in this case, you're a coward as well as a thief.

Whether or not you are jerks I can't say, but you are shameless thieving cowards. The fact that you can't see how harmful this is to the entertainment that you enjoy is just downright offensive.

I also think the developers are being a bit disingenuous with their 90% estimates. Yes, that many people may pirate the game but many of them wouldn't buy it regardless.

For those saying "make better games", that's the stupidest justification I've ever heard. I'm 100% certain that you pirate games whether you think they are good or bad. If you do it for one type of game, there's no reason you wouldn't do it for another. You've already shown yourself to be a shameless thief, forgive me if I don't trust your word that you only pirate 'bad' games.

 

[HuntrRose]

How many pirates are jerks?

100%

How accurate of you to make that claim. (Case in point)

Fixed.

Uh, case in point? I'm a jerk for being opposed to sweeping statements about people whose single universally common trait is an arguably immoral act?

Nothing arguable about it. People in the revolutions never claim their actions aren't radical. Pirates cannot claim their actions aren't STEALING.

Still we have a vicious circle, more DRM = more Pirates, more Pirates = More DRM

A little work on semantics and word definitions is needed:

[link]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal[/link]

The only partly fitting definition is the first, which includes removing from the owner. This does not happen. And after looking at the numbers in the article, the loss in sales from piracy is negligible (less than 1%). Seems to me the only sensible solution would be to stop using costly DRM, and rather offer paying customers extra content and/or services.

 

[Alterego-X]

I didn't ever meet with someone IRL who buys official PC games. Though, I live in Eastern Europe.
When we bought our first computer, at my age of 6, my father used to get some pirated games for me, on floppy discs, and I played with them for years. Later, in school, we used to share pirated game CDs in the classroom to copy them at home.
I was about 15 when I learned english well enough to browse multi-cultural websites, that was the first time when I realized that there is this whole drama about hurting the industry, vs. supporting the developers.

Now I'm still a student, with no income (at all, not even pocket money), and I'm slightly interested in gaming. If I couldn't pirate more games, I would keep playing with the old ones. If I couldn't pirate them either, I would read a bit more books.
(Though I only pirate 2-3 new games in a year anyways, the rest of them doesn't even worth downloading)

 

[pumasuit]

I know I'm late in the game, but I feel like putting my opinion out there.
To pirate and then buy later seems to make sense. You are one consumer and you have purchased one unit, which is precisely what developers were hoping.
If you pirate and don't buy it later because you didn't like it, that's terrible. No excuse, you thief.
Ultimately, you should purchase something you want, whether or not it is a crappy product, because if you wanted it, then your purchase is a big "thank you" to the developers. If it's crap, what you should do is not purchase the next game. Send a message that way. To pirate the next game is not the same message.

Filthy pirates. I don't care who you are, by being a pirate, you paint a label on yourself that nothing can erase, and when I think about what is wrong with society, I look at you first. You share the same spirit as anyone else who wants something for nothing, a mindset that spurs even the most nefarious crimes.

 

[pumasuit]

Wow. I didn't think Piracy was a big problem until I read this thread. Good lord you people are shameless. Pirating is the same as walking into a shop and taking one of the games off the shelves and walking out. Except in this case, you're a coward as well as a thief.

Whether or not you are jerks I can't say, but you are shameless thieving cowards. The fact that you can't see how harmful this is to the entertainment that you enjoy is just downright offensive.

I also think the developers are being a bit disingenuous with their 90% estimates. Yes, that many people may pirate the game but many of them wouldn't buy it regardless.

For those saying "make better games", that's the stupidest justification I've ever heard. I'm 100% certain that you pirate games whether you think they are good or bad. If you do it for one type of game, there's no reason you wouldn't do it for another. You've already shown yourself to be a shameless thief, forgive me if I don't trust your word that you only pirate 'bad' games.

Booyah. Filthy pirates!

 

[Eversor]

Where are those numbers coming from? Apart from the 85% piracy rate on Demigod, other two numbers are completely nebulous. How do you get that precise number? How do you tell that you lost 90% sales? Hell, how do you even tell that anyone in those 90% would've ever bought the game, in which case I have to ask - how is a sale, that was never going to happen, a lost sale?

Honestly, we should all come to realization by now that DRMs are not there to prevent piracy. They get cracked within few days of a launch, some extremely dracionian ones might take few weeks to crack, but eventually they fall. As a piracy prevention, it fails miserably. So why is DRM still used? To control when and how you play the game. That's all there is to it.

There was a great interview of the co-founder of gog.com and CD-Projekt on Gaming the System in cynicalbrit.com. It's a piece well worth listening to, because it's also a tale how fighting piracy should be done, as well as how they started their business in Poland, where piracy rate was, indeed, 95% when they started their business as localizers. Heck, gog.com itself is a great example of doing it right - low prices, no DRM and a guarantee that the game will work. That's how you do it.

 

[dududf]

This site's moral superiority complex over pirates is really starting to ride on my fucking nerves.

You and me both man.

 

[w00tage]

>>These are questions that might go through your mind while you're sitting at the installation screen and waiting for the activation servers tell you you're allowed to play the game you just bought. <<

What timing Shamus. http://mashable.com/2010/02/28/psn-down-8001050f

 

[BonGookKumBop]

I really enjoyed the article. I wanted to read all the previous replies before posting my own, but they are a bit overwhelming. Many of the replies I've read are rationalizations for piracy. They remind me of Narcissus who was so sure that he was better than others that he felt the rules should be changed just for him. Think of it like this, "stealing is wrong in all other cases, but what I do is different because . . ."

The numbers seem a little high, but I can believe them. I've seen enough piracy from "law abiding" friends. I've been to lan parties where CD cracks get passed around so everyone can play the game that one person wanted to try. The party organizer claimed that the cracks were just for previewing the game at the party and that participants needed to delete the game once the party was over, but I am ashamed to admit that that was a form of piracy I took part in.

I have another friend that both buys and downloads games frequently. He claims that he only downloads games as an extended demo and buys the games he likes; he likes the new anti-pirate methods of games like Bioshock 2 that make it impossible to save on a pirated game because it enforces the "pirate-to-demo" idea. The problem with this idea is that I've seen too many "demos" turn into 1+ complete play throughs before delete.

I'll admit that, since I love video games and I love getting pulled in to the stories of the games I play, it's hard for me to start a game without seeing it through to completion. The problem is that I can't afford to go out and buy every game that interests me, so I usually just suck it up and get a good book at the library to read until the most interesting games drop to a price I can afford. Mirror's Edge and Oblivion were the last games that I bought and they were worth the $20 dollars I paid for them. Besides that, I've quit playing video games.

I've seen plenty complaints that games cost too much, but gamers don't understand enough macro-economics to see that the demands of the consumers set the market price. Pirates think that by providing free versions of the game they are going to get the producers to change the prices, but piracy still shows a demand for the games (just one with untapped profits). DRM is the producers' method of trying to tap the elusive demand. If gamers really want cheaper games, they need to stop demanding new games (via legal purchases or piracy) until the prices are acceptable.

 

[BonGookKumBop]

Assuming these numbers are accurate, then of all the people that wanted to play these games, only 10% bought it. But the pirates that actually make these copies are not going to be stopped by any ammount of DRM. It's all software, it can all be circumvented, and after one team cracks the DRM, every 1337 guy who's too broke or too "smart" to pay for the game, can simply click download. Maybe that 10% was all you were ever gonna sell it to, but I'm not really inclined to believe that. Especially since we're talking PC's and the too poor for the game assumption raises questions as to how they fund that new 600 dollar rig every 2 years, with 2 geForce WTF1000s and 4 120mm led fans, plus that terrabyte of hard drive space to store all thier pirated games/porn. My friends and I used to cobble together computers with donated/salvaged parts, and barely get em overclocked and stable enough to run the games that we pirated. We we're near flat broke, no lost sale there, but I got older, got a decent job and went legit.

What sours it for me is I think about some of these people having a choice "Go out drinking this weekend, or buy Mass Effect 2?" "OH WAIT I could pay to get [wasted] and throw up for 40minutes, but then screw Bioware out of some sales for thier hard work!"

I agree. People set their priorities and rationalize poor behavior.

 

[TitsMcGee1804]

great article, with facts and figures that shows you are not just whining and have actually looked at the evidence

 

[Undead_David]

As for pirates being jerks, hey at least were not a bunch of racist sexist assholes like the legitamate guys on XBOX Live

Those guys are annoying, but pirates force game developers to get laid off. I am pretty sure I rather be annoyed than fired and there is a reason why pirating is illegal and annoying people is not. (Also mute button fixes it)
ps: If I was a game developer, I would make so much torrents that have viruses.

Lol game developers get laid off for not managing their finances/investments like crap games such as Too Human . As for the viruses they did that for a while but people have anti-virus programs that pretty much put a stop to that, which everyone should have by the way. If I was a developer Id just use the DLC as a way to mitigate pirating by rewarding those who buy the games with free content and charginga lil something for everyone else who is being all cheapo lol

Rewarding the good kids with something, making the bad kids jealous and become good kids? Hmmm.... might just work

I dunno, sounds far too controversial to me. Encouraging people to WANT to purchase the software? That's crazy talk!

Obviously it's better to make really restrictive DRM to encourage people to, uh... where was I going with this?

Restrictive DRM just delays how long it will take before the game is cracked.(i think...)

I mean I wont lie I pirate games, but with free DLC for going legit it actually has made me wait till I have the money to buy the game. And yeah I know DLC isnt immune to piracy either but I feel when a company is making an effort for to actually get me to like them than why not return the favor to the best of my ability? Those companies are also going to make a killing in the used game market which actually hurts developers more than piracy. Since your actually buying the game and that money doesnt go to them. Like I said, DLC can help mitigate piracy, it wont stop it but if it helps go from 10% legit to 11% hey thats a theoretical 10% increase in profits for them. And yeah, DRM at best will only delay how long it will be cracked because in my opinion the pirate who crack the games are among the smartest people out there in the programing world.

So yeah, developers need to make us pirates love them and reward us for being legit insted of alienating us and making us feel like we are in some idealistc/monetary war. Look at blizzard, almost nobody pirates their games because Blizzard goes out of its way to win the love of its costumers, just a thought

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

A game is just a set of bits in a particular configuration.

How can someone claim to own bits that are on my hard disk? That are on a server somewhere? If my computer makes a request to the server, and that server provides me with the proper sequence of bits, and I store that sequence on my hard disk how can anyone claim to have ownership of those bits?

Ideas can't be owned, they can only be unknown. The entire idea if intellectual property is broken and unnecessary. OpenSource proves that high quality content will be created whether or not people are paid to make it.

 

[Eremiel]

Wow. I didn't think Piracy was a big problem until I read this thread. Good lord you people are shameless. Pirating is the same as walking into a shop and taking one of the games off the shelves and walking out. Except in this case, you're a coward as well as a thief.

I absolutely hate people who make this argument. Much the same way I hate the "You wouldn't steal a car!" thing that goes into the standard anti-piracy ad.

Copying is NOT the same as stealing.

If I were to walk into a shop and copy a game off their shelf, THE ORIGINAL GAME WOULD STILL BE ON THE SHELF. What I have is a copy, a new entity. It's NOT the same physical game. The store still has the original and they can still sell the original.



Not saying that piracy is right, but that particular argument is wrong.

 

[Shamus Young]

A game is just a set of bits in a particular configuration.

How can someone claim to own bits that are on my hard disk? That are on a server somewhere? If my computer makes a request to the server, and that server provides me with the proper sequence of bits, and I store that sequence on my hard disk how can anyone claim to have ownership of those bits?

Ideas can't be owned, they can only be unknown. The entire idea if intellectual property is broken and unnecessary. OpenSource proves that high quality content will be created whether or not people are paid to make it.

A statue is just a bit of rock in a particular configuration. Paint is just paint, so a bucket is a painting is a masterpiece. There are no new notes, letters, or emotions, so why should any music be attributed to any songwriter or performer? A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters would eventually produce the works of Shakespeare, but is it worth each person's time to dig through the physical and literary shit they produce in between?

Those who pull the gems out of the pool of undiscovered ideas may still do so if they receive no compensation, but they'd have much less time to do so if they had to work another job just to make a living. Those who make open source products receive their compensation elsewhere - in effect, another industry is subsidizing it. Just as those who pay to play are subsidizing those who don't.

Piracy is not an action without consequences. Those who pirate just shift them onto other people. But hey, life ain't fair, and do unto others before they do unto you, right?

 

[BonGookKumBop]

I absolutely hate people who make this argument. Much the same way I hate the "You wouldn't steal a car!" thing that goes into the standard anti-piracy ad.

Copying is NOT the same as stealing.

If I were to walk into a shop and copy a game off their shelf, THE ORIGINAL GAME WOULD STILL BE ON THE SHELF. What I have is a copy, a new entity. It's NOT the same physical game. The store still has the original and they can still sell the original.

Not saying that piracy is right, but that particular argument is wrong.

This is an interesting point, but the problem is that it's technically wrong. According to the laws of most nations, copying a game is illegal and therefore stealing. If you believe otherwise, than you should do what you can to change the law. If you do all you can to change unjust laws, then you are a good citizen. If you break laws because you don't like them then you're a criminal.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

A game is just a set of bits in a particular configuration.

How can someone claim to own bits that are on my hard disk? That are on a server somewhere? If my computer makes a request to the server, and that server provides me with the proper sequence of bits, and I store that sequence on my hard disk how can anyone claim to have ownership of those bits?

Ideas can't be owned, they can only be unknown. The entire idea if intellectual property is broken and unnecessary. OpenSource proves that high quality content will be created whether or not people are paid to make it.

A statue is just a bit of rock in a particular configuration. Paint is just paint, so a bucket is a painting is a masterpiece. There are no new notes, letters, or emotions, so why should any music be attributed to any songwriter or performer? A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters would eventually produce the works of Shakespeare, but is it worth each person's time to dig through the physical and literary shit they produce in between?

Those who pull the gems out of the pool of undiscovered ideas may still do so if they receive no compensation, but they'd have much less time to do so if they had to work another job just to make a living. Those who make open source products receive their compensation elsewhere - in effect, another industry is subsidizing it. Just as those who pay to play are subsidizing those who don't.

Piracy is not an action without consequences. Those who pirate just shift them onto other people. But hey, life ain't fair, and do unto others before they do unto you, right?

Great answer, I don't agree with everything but that was some fancy writing.

You say that piracy has consequences but what are they? The publisher (or developer of the indie) doesn't get money? The programmers aren't paid?

Well used games and rentals have the same consequences. So does borrowing a game from a friend. Is everyone who buys a used game or borrows or rents a game a "jerk" as described in the article? So why is there this high-horse scorn for pirates and none for people who only buy used games? Publishers make the same amount of money off both groups.

 

[BonGookKumBop]

Great answer, I don't agree with everything but that was some fancy writing.

You say that piracy has consequences but what are they? The publisher (or developer of the indie) doesn't get money? The programmers aren't paid?

Well used games and rentals have the same consequences. So does borrowing a game from a friend. Is everyone who buys a used game or borrows or rents a game a "jerk" as described in the article? So why is there this high-horse scorn for pirates and none for people who only buy used games? Publishers make the same amount of money off both groups.

Again, this goes back to the way the law is written. In the US, when you buy a movie or a game, you don't buy a piece of reflective plastic in a box. Instead, you buy the right to enjoy the data on the disc. If you read the warning at the beginning of videos, you'll see that you don't even have the right to show your movie in a public place or to charge people to come to your house to watch it. When Blockbuster buys a movie or a game they pay three times what you would because they bought the right to rent that game out to other people. This allows publishers to make more money from rentals.