Piracy, simply put.

[RubyT]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken. They never had my money. They make the case they'd gotten it without piracy, but since I've probably streamed more movies than my cumulative net worth, that argument is defeated by simple math.
My landlord is probably not going to like the idea of me re-prioritizing my expenditures to the purchase of entertainment products.

Some say you shouldn't download stuff you can't or don't want to afford. Why? Who's that helping? Who's getting paid in Karma points?
"Dear EA, last month I didn't buy or download any of your games. You're welcome!"

People don't get critizised for waiting a year until the retail price drops to $10. Well, they might as well download the game right away and mail the dev $10. Personal asketicism during one's time of abstinence isn't helping their employees pay the rent anyway.

Buy a game second hand - you might as well pirate it. "But people have always sold off things and bought used things." Yes. This truth still doesn't help the devs pay the rent.
A clean conscience isn't valid currency in the free market economy.

I don't hoard money. Can't. I spend all my income. Every month. I'm doing my part. Why should I not get stuff free when it doesn't hurt no-one? Me downloading a CD doesn't diminish the record company's ability to sell it to somebody else.

Let's say I need to ride the bus home. I only have five dollars on me. I can't pay more. But five dollars is only gonna get me within four blocks. The bus is empty, or at least empty enough, so I don't take nobody's seat. Who is helped by me getting off the bus to walk the rest? (apart from my health)
The bus is going there anyway, I don't diminish any paying customer's ability use it.
What kind of twisted Christian guilt morality makes one assume it is wrong to just ride the bus until home?

What does that conscience say when you proudly buy a video game full price like a good patriot, and then play it on the X-Box that is only so cheap because some legal slave in China assembled it for 2 bucks a day, while you're wearing the T-Shirt that some Indonesian kid sowed instead of going to school?

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

 

[evilneko]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken. They never had my money. They make the case they'd gotten it without piracy, but since I've probably streamed more movies than my cumulative net worth, that argument is defeated by simple math.
My landlord is probably not going to like the idea of me re-prioritizing my expenditures to the purchase of entertainment products.

Some say you shouldn't download stuff you can't or don't want to afford. Why? Who's that helping? Who's getting paid in Karma points?
"Dear EA, last month I didn't buy or download any of your games. You're welcome!"

"I wouldn't have bought it or can't afford to buy it anyway" is not an excuse.

People don't get critizised for waiting a year until the retail price drops to $10.

I'd hazard a guess that's because they aren't breaking any laws.

Well, they might as well download the game right away and mail the dev $10. Personal asketicism during one's time of abstinence isn't helping their employees pay the rent anyway.

Absurd.

Buy a game second hand - you might as well pirate it. "But people have always sold off things and bought used things." Yes. This truth still doesn't help the devs pay the rent.
A clean conscience isn't valid currency in the free market economy.

Absurd and already-refuted argument.

I don't hoard money. Can't. I spend all my income. Every month. I'm doing my part. Why should I not get stuff free when it doesn't hurt no-one? Me downloading a CD doesn't diminish the record company's ability to sell it to somebody else.

Because while your individual download of something may not hurt anyone, the collective of people doing it can and often does. Depending on how you got your download, it may help others download it and/or encourage further piracy.

Let's say I need to ride the bus home. I only have five dollars on me. I can't pay more. But five dollars is only gonna get me within four blocks. The bus is empty, or at least empty enough, so I don't take nobody's seat. Who is helped by me getting off the bus to walk the rest? (apart from my health)The bus is going there anyway, I don't diminish any paying customer's ability use it.

And at the next stop there's a group of two-dozen polka dancers waiting. Stupid analogy is stupid.

What kind of twisted Christian guilt morality makes one assume it is wrong to just ride the bus until home?

Not even gonna bite at that flamebait...

What does that conscience say when you proudly buy a video game full price like a good patriot, and then play it on the X-Box that is only so cheap because some legal slave in China assembled it for 2 bucks a day, while you're wearing the T-Shirt that some Indonesian kid sowed instead of going to school?

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

Let's stick to the topic shall we?

Spoiler: Also, IN B4....

 

[CulixCupric]

Really, this thread again? We all here have heard this, unless you're new here, but seeing as your join date is in 2009, not likely...

OT:

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

No, I am not fond of "screwing people over"...

 

[GrandmaFunk]

"Piracy, simply put"

Oh I see, this debate has been raging for over a decade, but FINALLY someone has broken it all down for us, simple style.

let me put it even simpler-er: pirates are lazy freeloaders and publishers are greedy scum-bags.

done!

 

[burningdragoon]

There is some merit to what you've posted. Some. I mean, sure piracy isn't 'theft' based on each one's official definition. I guess the fact that most people really mean 'acquiring an item being sold for money without any transference of money' is completely irrelevant.

Anyway, the rest of what you said is pretty standard pro-piracy commentary with an especially terrible attitude. Except for one thing...

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

Well that's a wonderfully fucked up outlook.

Honestly, if you want to pirate stuff, just pirate stuff and own up to the fact that you just want something without having to pay for it. Poorly expressed justification and rationalization is not convincing anyone otherwise.

 

[BrassButtons]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken.

You're right, it's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.

 

[Erana]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken.

You're right, it's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.

Which is illegal, just like Stealing.

And for Christ's sake, if you're a pirate, grow a proverbial pair and acknowledge that you're breaking the law.
End of story.
With piracy, its the bad side of a legal binary.

If you're doing something that isn't so morally unacceptable, like downloading a ROM of a game you've bought three times already including remakes, or there is something you simply can't do legally that improves the gaming experience (I bet tons of people downloaded illegal ROMs for Bottles's Revenge) OK, whatever, don't feel guilty and keep quiet about it.
One doing something like this IS still having a small negative effect in illegal duplication/distribution or whatever and adds to the big, scary numbers that companies like to throw around to justify bad DRM, just to be clear.


Going, "Oh, I'm not at fault for taking a luxury that I did not purchase!!!" is rediculous. TF2 is FREE now. NetHack has always been free. There are sooo many RPGs out there that are now free, including Daggerfall, and Steam and other online sellers have supersales regularly. If you're not using public library internet to write this post, then like Hell can you not afford $4.00 for Oblivion or even just one cent for the HIB.

I have a small library of games. I can count the games I own for any one of my consoles on one hand. Half my meager Steam game list was a gift or free, and none of them I spent more than $15 on. (In fact, I only spent $15 on two; one because a friend *really* wanted to play with me, and another because I was supporting one of my favorite indie devs.)
And you know what? I still haven't beaten most of them because I often don't have the time. If you're really going through all the games that are available on a meager budget, then Jesus Christ! You must game 24/7!

 

[RubyT]

I know I'm breaking the law - in some countries. In others, I don't.

There once were laws in place that relegated black people to the back of the bus or forbade marriage between jews and "Arians". Yeah, Godwin's Law. Currently there are countries where it's against the law to critizise the government or draw a picture of Mohammed.

"It's against the law" has never been a valid philosophical argument.

It helps no one really. But it's what is fair. Because someone else made it and you don't deserve to just have it regardless of what they want.

Why? They don't even know I'm doing it. Why should they be able to control what I do when it has no effect on them?

Doing your part? Determined by who?

By me. If I'm spending all my income, I'm not holding back.

Still unjust to take advantage of the bus.

Why? How? I'd really like to understand what makes you think this. It's fascinating.
The bus is empty. Nobody is helped by me getting off. It helps me to stay on. Who is done injustice to? The people who could afford to pay full fare? I spend 100% of my disposable currency and they spend 10% - and I'm doing them injustice?
By that measure, would it be unjust to tax Bill Gates at 30% and you or me at 20%?

What is your position to African children dying because they can't afford medicine/vaccine? Is it just or unjust towards Western pharmaceutical companies to hand out cheap generica?

Oh now down to red herrings. But you've shown a lack of integrity already so no surprise.

How is it a red herring? How out of your way do you go to prevent being complicit in the exploitation of third world citizens?
You think I'm a worse person than you because I may or may not cheat first world game developers out of a couple of bucks when you consider cheating some Chinese kid out of a childhood a 'red herring'?

You apparently try to justify it to yourself. But go on and just be happy with tricking yourself.

I really am not. I could give a flying f--- what people on escapist think about me personally. And I don't feel bad.

I'm just interested in some philosophical discourse.
If I'm part of a debate about American Slavery, I'm not necessarily driven by either White Guilt or Black Hate.

I'm trying to argue from my brain, while the responses so far seem to argue from the heart. Your feelings of injustice should be rationalized.

 

[4RM3D]

There was a thread about this no less than 2 days ago:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.339588-So-most-people-understand-that-piracy-is-NOT-theft-technically

 

[lRookiel]

Mods are gonna love this one....

Report and move on guys, it's the same thread over and over again, except this time the OP admits to breaking the law.

nice one.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I agree piracy isn't stealing and that potential revenue isn't actual revenue but Piracy is closer to counterfeiting. If you didn't pirate the game there is a chance that you would buy it.

And with second hand games the dev's got money for the game on the original purchase they didn't sell another copy they don't deserve money for the second hand sales. That last part sounded better in my head.

 

[Dandark]

I just got dumber after reading this thread. I really did.
I usaully don't post if I don't have anything useful to say but it just felt wrong to walk away from such...........something without commenting.

Although now I feel even dumber having commented.

Edit: I am not talking about the piracy argument but just the OP post. Especially the part about the bus.
To try and add something to the topic, piracy is a pretty bad thing but it's not the horrible crime that it's made out to be. IMO it seems many pirates are just tired of having to work to enjoy something or pay for it when there is a much better version for free.

 

[SirDeadly]

Let's say I need to ride the bus home. I only have five dollars on me. I can't pay more. But five dollars is only gonna get me within four blocks. The bus is empty, or at least empty enough, so I don't take nobody's seat. Who is helped by me getting off the bus to walk the rest? (apart from my health)
The bus is going there anyway, I don't diminish any paying customer's ability use it.

Hold on, you have to pay for how far you travel on a bus? What kind of absurd country does that?

OT: There are many different opinions on how damaging piracy is but that's all they are, opinions.

 

[MercurySteam]

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

Not this song and dance again. Can't you just watch this week's Jimquisition and post your thoughts on the comments thread instead?

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Report and move on people, report and move on.

 

[tlgAlaska]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken. They never had my money.

Walk up to an artist desperately selling his paintings and take some closeup photos of them. And then tell him these exact words.

 

[weker]

And with second hand games the dev's got money for the game on the original purchase they didn't sell another copy they don't deserve money for the second hand sales.

It sounds fine and I get what you mean, a person had to buy it at least to give to another, while pirates just crack it sometimes and share it with thousands of others.

As for this thread, it's just another pirate trying to justify his crime, while not understanding why the laws are there, and trying to prove his point is drastic comparisons.
It's not theft, it's copyright infringement, no matter how you look at it you live in a place where the owner/s are entitled to be payed for their product.
If you want to play their game you most likely live in a place where you need to pay for it.

 

[DEAD34345]

I agree... at least partly. If you know that pirating something is going to harm no one, then I don't consider it immoral to do it. The real argument is over whether or not piracy causes any harm overall/in individual examples.

Honestly though, it all depends on how you view morality. Some people consider certain actions to be moral, and certain actions to be immoral, even if they don't harm or help anyone. I'd point to (part of) Mortai Gravesend's post as a good example of this:

It helps no one really. But it's what is fair. Because someone else made it and you don't deserve to just have it regardless of what they want. It is not a necessary item, as such it is only fair to respect the wishes of its creator.

Others believe an action becomes immoral only if it causes some harm to someone. That would be the OP's (and I would guess, most pirates') line of thinking. Personally, I lean towards this as well, though it's impossible to objectively say one way of thinking about morality is any better than the other.

I know a lot of people who pirate. In fact... I don't know any "gamers" who don't (this is probably because almost everyone I know is lower-working class or below). Yet these are the same people who also spend a large portion of their money on video-games. If they didn't pirate they wouldn't suddenly receive more money from the heavens to give to game developers, they'd just have less games to play. There's no way I can think about their piracy and see it as immoral.

 

[RubyT]

a person had to buy it at least to give to another, while pirates just crack it sometimes and share it with thousands of others.

What if the pirate bought the game and I pay him?

As for this thread, it's just another pirate trying to justify his crime

Yeah, because it really bugs me that you, "weker", a person I will never know frowns upon me, "RubyT", as my mother undoubtedly must have called you.

There's a "How old are you?"-poll active, that clearly must have been started by someone trying to justify his age...