Pirate Party Goes to Parliament

bilkobob

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midpipps said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
midpipps said:
I have read their missions and I can agree with some of it but their figuring that as long as it is not for commercial gain anything should be able to be copied and distributed is just plain wrong.
If the companies make a product and one person can copy that product and hand it out to all his friends why would anyone of his friends buy that product. That is a great way to kill game/music/movie industries.
I can agree on the time span being shortened but 5 years just is not enough time their are games and records that still sell very well after 5 years. I think I would rather see it going to a system where the product is no longer commercially available in new format(ie not used).
It is not a bad thing that these guys get a voice just hope that they do not get everything reformed the way they want. There has to be middle ground.
I can buy a chair, make a new one and give it to my friends as much as I want, why not a digital anything as well?

Companies will just have to learn to adjust to societies wants instead of trying to fight and control it.
The thing is you are not making an exact copy of their chair the way you are talking is if you would buy a game and then write your own game and give it to your friends sure the game maybe loosely based on their game and some code may seem similar but it would not be an exact copy. Back to the chair reference you would not be using the chair companies parts and technology to create your chair copy. Therefore your copy may be similar but will not be an exact copy and unless you have the knowledge and finishing skills. Yours may not be as durable or stable.

The thing is game development on a whole is costing more and more and the consumers want to pay less and less or nothing at all. See the issue here. The cost has to come out of somewhere. So either the game companies find ways to protect their product or they loose money until they have to start cutting dev costs and then we get lesser products.
Midpipps, give it up. They won't understand. They will when game costs skyrocket and fewer products are out there. I agree with you... there has to be a middle ground.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Yoshi_egg80 said:
Eldritch Warlord said:
AceDiamond said:
Now if only this kind of multiparty system could work in the US.
I wouldn't want it to. Having two parties that agree on everything save current and genuinely controversial issues has kept the US extremely politically stable since the American Civil War despite the alarmingly progressive nature of American culture.

However, that is by far the best party logo I've ever seen.
I could go on about the "winner take all" system in U.S. is mostly a deterrent for the whole faction thing but I'm to lax right now.

Yes it is pretty cool.
The electoral college is pretty retarded in the modern world but it's not related to the two-party system.
 

Avatar Roku

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NoMoreSanity said:
Good for them, at least the good guys are finally winning for once!
I don't know about that. But you know me, staunch anti-pirate and all. I have to read up on The Pirate Party's policies, as they don't sound too bad from what I hear, but then again, I agreed with The Pirate Bay verdict so...
 

Yoshi_egg80

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Apr 1, 2009
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Eldritch Warlord said:
Yoshi_egg80 said:
Eldritch Warlord said:
AceDiamond said:
Now if only this kind of multiparty system could work in the US.
I wouldn't want it to. Having two parties that agree on everything save current and genuinely controversial issues has kept the US extremely politically stable since the American Civil War despite the alarmingly progressive nature of American culture.

However, that is by far the best party logo I've ever seen.
I could go on about the "winner take all" system in U.S. is mostly a deterrent for the whole faction thing but I'm to lax right now.

Yes it is pretty cool.
The electoral college is pretty retarded in the modern world but it's not related to the two-party system.
Who mentioned the electoral system?
 

Avatar Roku

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NoMoreSanity said:
orannis62 said:
NoMoreSanity said:
Good for them, at least the good guys are finally winning for once!
I don't know about that. But you know me, staunch anti-pirate and all. I have to read up on The Pirate Party's policies, as they don't sound too bad from what I hear, but then again, I agreed with The Pirate Bay verdict so...
Well unlike some few pirates these guys are trying to lessen the iron grip of copyright. You can barely find most music videos on Youtube anymore because UMG and WMG keep getting them pulled down, and any other videos that feature their music have their sound removed.

And you agreed with a biased, totally f'd up verdict?
That sounds worth fighting for, copyrights are becoming draconian, but I'm still against actual piracy.

I agree with the sentiment, I guess. I believe that, in the long run, piracy will only hurt gaming, and in that sense I agree. The punishment was totally disproportionate, however.
 

Lordmarkus

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Yay, Sweden is suddenly an awsome country! But honestly, the only reason people (young people that will say) voted for this lovely party is because we got some, not many, really fucked up laws in Sweden.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Yoshi_egg80 said:
Who mentioned the electoral system?
That's the only part of the US government that can be interpreted as "winner-take-all." Unless you think having a single executive officer (ie President) fits, but that's just common sense. The chief reason for having an executive officer is to quickly make time-sensitive decisions, a counsel (especially a bi-partisan counsel) is less suitable for that.
 

Yoshi_egg80

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Local elections and on't forg
Eldritch Warlord said:
Yoshi_egg80 said:
Who mentioned the electoral system?
That's the only part of the US government that can be interpreted as "winner-take-all." Unless you think having a single executive officer (ie President) fits, but that's just common sense. The chief reason for having an executive officer is to quickly make time-sensitive decisions, a counsel (especially a bi-partisan counsel) is less suitable for that.
Local party systems actually come to mind though having a 52% Democrat Senator sounds a little hard to keep alive with a 47% Republican and the 1%other guy is just a toenail .
 

scotth266

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Can someone throw a link to their mission statements here, or something along those lines? I'm curious to see what these people are about.
 

Ancientgamer

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I honestly don't know all that much about european politics. Will one or two members in parliament be able to change... anything? Especially if they have a controversial view?
 

fenixkane

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Sep 16, 2008
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vivaldiscool said:
I honestly don't know all that much about european politics. Will one or two members in parliament be able to change... anything? Especially if they have a controversial view?
The big deal is that the party was only founded in 2006. 2 seats in the first 3 years is not shabby.
I can see this expanding each year.
 

Lord_Jaroh

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Apr 24, 2007
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midpipps said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
midpipps said:
I have read their missions and I can agree with some of it but their figuring that as long as it is not for commercial gain anything should be able to be copied and distributed is just plain wrong.
If the companies make a product and one person can copy that product and hand it out to all his friends why would anyone of his friends buy that product. That is a great way to kill game/music/movie industries.
I can agree on the time span being shortened but 5 years just is not enough time their are games and records that still sell very well after 5 years. I think I would rather see it going to a system where the product is no longer commercially available in new format(ie not used).
It is not a bad thing that these guys get a voice just hope that they do not get everything reformed the way they want. There has to be middle ground.
I can buy a chair, make a new one and give it to my friends as much as I want, why not a digital anything as well?

Companies will just have to learn to adjust to societies wants instead of trying to fight and control it.
The thing is you are not making an exact copy of their chair the way you are talking is if you would buy a game and then write your own game and give it to your friends sure the game maybe loosely based on their game and some code may seem similar but it would not be an exact copy. Back to the chair reference you would not be using the chair companies parts and technology to create your chair copy. Therefore your copy may be similar but will not be an exact copy and unless you have the knowledge and finishing skills. Yours may not be as durable or stable.

The thing is game development on a whole is costing more and more and the consumers want to pay less and less or nothing at all. See the issue here. The cost has to come out of somewhere. So either the game companies find ways to protect their product or they loose money until they have to start cutting dev costs and then we get lesser products.
I'll just repeat what I said elsewhere: I find it kind of amusing that the game industry is a multi-million dollar industry and can't afford to survive on their $60+ games, and yet the movie industry seems to do just fine for $10, and not only that but indy movies thrive.

How come Square Enix pulled the plug on fans building a "similar" game based on their stories, even though there was no money involved? If I "built" a game in my living room with a few buddies, we could play it to our heart's content. We could even distribute it by word of mouth. But the instant we talk over the net, the companies have to "flex their muscle".

IP control has become ridiculous, beyond what it should be. Hopefully this will be the beginning of change.
 

midpipps

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Feb 23, 2009
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Lord_Jaroh said:
I'll just repeat what I said elsewhere: I find it kind of amusing that the game industry is a multi-million dollar industry and can't afford to survive on their $60+ games, and yet the movie industry seems to do just fine for $10, and not only that but indy movies thrive.

How come Square Enix pulled the plug on fans building a "similar" game based on their stories, even though there was no money involved? If I "built" a game in my living room with a few buddies, we could play it to our heart's content. We could even distribute it by word of mouth. But the instant we talk over the net, the companies have to "flex their muscle".

IP control has become ridiculous, beyond what it should be. Hopefully this will be the beginning of change.
The movie industry also 2 venues+ that they make money off of they make money off of theatres and sales. Not only that but most movies will pull in 1 million movie goers plus in theatres not and that is not even thinking about how many they will sell to rental shops/the home consumer. Indy movies and games also thrive because their budgets are not in the millions of dollars per movie or game and sorry to say most of the time it shows sure you get the gem here and there but alot of them are lackluster or just plain bad.

The thing is most indy game or movie developers are not looking to get rich off of their products they are usually either going for getting that big movie deal or for the love of the media. If you think he majority of independent movie/game makers make money or get rich of their games/movies you are sorely mistaken.

As for square the guys that made the game did not just create the game from scratch and make a game that looks like it they used the rom to make the game which is also the code that square spent along time and a lot of money building. I think if they would have just started over with brand new code and maybe even changed the name a little then yes square probably wouldn't have fretted so much over it. Not that I agree with square on the matter but it is their code. It would be like a carpenter made a special jig to do one special project and someone went into his shop and stole his extra tool to make their own of the same project.

That would be like you or I taking Microsoft code changing the logos, wording and layout and re marketing their OS as your own. Some people are fine with others doing this but it should be up to the creators of that code to decide that.

Granted I think their is a continuing IP contingency that should be in place so something cannot sit idle forever just waiting to be able to sue. Which is where the middle ground needs to come in.
 

cobrausn

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fenixkane said:
vivaldiscool said:
I honestly don't know all that much about european politics. Will one or two members in parliament be able to change... anything? Especially if they have a controversial view?
The big deal is that the party was only founded in 2006. 2 seats in the first 3 years is not shabby.
I can see this expanding each year.
I think their election was a result of reactionaries. I don't think it will take. But hey, that's just me.

Is it just me or do these guys seem like a mixed bag? From what I can tell, they have some really good ideas, but the abolition of patents? Really? I mean, the system has it's flaws, but it will in general reward those with creativity.
 

Asehujiko

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Feb 25, 2008
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cobrausn said:
fenixkane said:
vivaldiscool said:
I honestly don't know all that much about european politics. Will one or two members in parliament be able to change... anything? Especially if they have a controversial view?
The big deal is that the party was only founded in 2006. 2 seats in the first 3 years is not shabby.
I can see this expanding each year.
I think their election was a result of reactionaries. I don't think it will take. But hey, that's just me.

Is it just me or do these guys seem like a mixed bag? From what I can tell, they have some really good ideas, but the abolition of patents? Really? I mean, the system has it's flaws, but it will in general reward those with creativity.
In practice it rewards those rich enough to copy paste somebody elses patent and get in approved faster by waving a bundle of cash, rendering the original a fraud.
 

EmelieSwe

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Jun 8, 2009
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scotth266 said:
Can someone throw a link to their mission statements here, or something along those lines? I'm curious to see what these people are about.

http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english
 

scotth266

Wait when did I get a sub
Jan 10, 2009
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EmelieSwe said:
scotth266 said:
Can someone throw a link to their mission statements here, or something along those lines? I'm curious to see what these people are about.

http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english
Thanks. I now must say that I like these guys a lot. Go Pirate Party!
 

Nomad

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Aug 3, 2008
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GoldenRaz said:
Yay us swedes! And for all of you who think that the Pirate party are bad, the other candidates where "Sverigedemokraterna", a party whose leaders constantly try to convince people that they are not rascist (and failing at that).
I know who I would have voted on if it stood between the two...
"The other candidates"? Sweden has more than two political parties. Other major parties taking part in the election were the Feminist Initiative, the June List, the Left Party, the Environmental Party, the People's Party, the Centre Party, the Moderates, the Social Democratic Party and the Christ Democrats. And then there were a few minor ones that never stood a chance. Still, the Sweden Democrats are pretty minor themselves, and were not even close to being the "other candidates", if you're focusing on two groups.

Eldritch Warlord said:
AceDiamond said:
Now if only this kind of multiparty system could work in the US.
I wouldn't want it to. Having two parties that agree on everything save current and genuinely controversial issues has kept the US extremely politically stable since the American Civil War despite the alarmingly progressive nature of American culture.
So basically you want a dictatorship, then? Then you'll have one party that absolutely agrees with itself in every issue, and is adept at maintaining political stability. Democracy is founded on differing political views. If you only have two views represented, and both of them are very similar, then there's not much of a choice at all.

As for the number of Swedish seats in the parliament... I'm Swedish, and I'm a student of political science. And I'm 100% sure it's 18, not 20. What happens after the Treaty of Lisbon is another thing, but that treaty isn't exactly set in stone, what with the difficulties with Ireland and all. Anyway, my point is that as for now - we have 18 seats. Not 20.

vivaldiscool said:
I honestly don't know all that much about european politics. Will one or two members in parliament be able to change... anything? Especially if they have a controversial view?
Nope. They won't change a thing, using their mandates at least. In fact, many members of the parliament already share their views, it's just that their political parties focus on other issues as well. What makes the Pirate Party stand out is that this is their only issue. And what that means is that it communicates to the political leadership that this is an important question to the people, and that can make them back off from undesired decisions in the future.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Nomadic said:
Eldritch Warlord said:
AceDiamond said:
Now if only this kind of multiparty system could work in the US.
I wouldn't want it to. Having two parties that agree on everything save current and genuinely controversial issues has kept the US extremely politically stable since the American Civil War despite the alarmingly progressive nature of American culture.
So basically you want a dictatorship, then? Then you'll have one party that absolutely agrees with itself in every issue, and is adept at maintaining political stability. Democracy is founded on differing political views. If you only have two views represented, and both of them are very similar, then there's not much of a choice at all.
The Democratic and Republican parties are Moderate Liberal and Moderate Conservative respectively.

They disagree on many things. They agree on many more but those are issues like "Is it proper to rape and consume 5-year-old kids?" Opinions almost no one would contest.