Pirate Party Swells After Spectrial Verdict

capnjack

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Jan 6, 2009
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CoverYourHead said:
... the abolition of patents...
Um... no. That doesn't make any sense, people should be able to make money off their ideas. This party just wants to be able to steal things.
You don't make sense. You clearly don't know the purpose of patent laws. People have been making money on their ideas and selling them for far longer than patents have existed. Patent laws, in this day and age, are so dangerous and misused, that they often hinder the very things they mean to promote - creativity and innovation. Patent law NEEDS to be reformed or completely abolished.

To claim that "these guys just want to steal" is nothing short of ignorance. You can't make that false assertion without reading what they actually stand for.

I may not agree that patent law needs to be abolished, but greedy and already rich people are trying to get patent law extended, and I think it needs a better leash. I definitely see the use in patents, but considering all the misuse that I read about happening on a daily basis, it needs to be reformed and it needs to be less... encompassing. I get a chill down my spine every time I read a story like this [http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090327/1113014276.shtml].
 

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
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CapnJack said:
To claim that "these guys just want to steal" is nothing short of ignorance. You can't make that false assertion without reading what they actually stand for.
That's technically true, but only technically. Piratpartiet platform is based around the idea that there should be no such thing as copyright when talking about personal use. Which means that what we currently refer to as piracy, would be perfectly legal.

This raises an interesting question for games, as 'personal use' defines most aspects of gaming. If publishers are no longer able to prevent people from sharing their games, what motivation do they have to release the game in the first place? Essentially, one person in the country would need to buy it and then that person could freely distribute it to anyone who wanted it.

The only model I can think off that would let the publishers make their money back is by making games ad supported, but I shudder to think at how many ads it would take to break even on a triple A title, let alone make a profit. Unless of course the publisher decides not to release it for retail, but makes it solely available for internet-café style gaming establishments.

And the really sad thing is, this will not hurt the 'blood thirsty media companies' that they so despise anywhere near as much as small developers who aren't shipping to every market.
 

HobbesMkii

Hold Me Closer Tony Danza
Jun 7, 2008
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I think we're beginning to realize that our previous conception of copyright is rapidly breaking down. The internet has created a change that most people are unable and/or unwilling to accept. At some point, people are going to have to realize that they're being left behind by the nature of the medium. Enforcement is starting to become impossible, purely because of numbers. I think the war on piracy that the MPAA and the IFPI and other anti-piracy groups are fighting is as doomed as the US' war on drugs. Some people have started to figure out alternatives. Shepard Fairy (the Obama Hope guy) advocates reproduction of his images. Stardock does not include DRM in its games. Radiohead sold its album for a "pay what it's worth to you" system.

Ultimately, I think it's idiotic to fight and struggle against piracy through courts and governmental institutions. We're going to have to accept that in the face of a medium which makes everything both easily available and cheap (to the extent of free) that the traditional mode of payment for services/product may go up in smoke (and may have already). I'm not necessarily advocating piracy. I think it is an unavoidable by-product of the medium. Those who cannot adapt will perish.

Also, just as an addendum, I sincerely doubt that this will kill off smaller companies. Maybe the current small companies. But new ones will crop up. The fact is smaller companies are, by necessity, more innovative than larger companies. They're smarter about opening up alternative revenue streams because they have fewer available options. That's why small companies are bought up by bigger companies all the time. Its capitalist competition at its finest. When a big company and a small company go after the same revenue stream, the big company always wins. Small companies focus their efforts on revenue sources that big companies can't reach (and thus the impetus for big companies to buy them). The most successful small companies become big companies as a result.
 

Ligisttomten

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Sep 20, 2004
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Get your facts straight. They don't promote piracy. What they do want is updated copyright and patent laws. The ones we have now are OBVIOUSLY fubar. No more lobby companies acting like the police, more money to the actual artists.
 

scotth266

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Jan 10, 2009
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HobbesMkii said:
I think we're beginning to realize that our previous conception of copyright is rapidly breaking down. The internet has created a change that most people are unable and/or unwilling to accept. At some point, people are going to have to realize that they're being left behind by the nature of the medium. Enforcement is starting to become impossible, purely because of numbers. I think the war on piracy that the MPAA and the IFPI and other anti-piracy groups are fighting is as doomed as the US' war on drugs. Some people have started to figure out alternatives. Shepard Fairy (the Obama Hope guy) advocates reproduction of his images. Stardock does not include DRM in its games. Radiohead sold its album for a "pay what it's worth to you" system.

Ultimately, I think it's idiotic to fight and struggle against piracy through courts and governmental institutions. We're going to have to accept that in the face of a medium which makes everything both easily available and cheap (to the extent of free) that the traditional mode of payment for services/product may go up in smoke (and may have already). I'm not necessarily advocating piracy. I think it is an unavoidable by-product of the medium. Those who cannot adapt will perish.

Also, just as an addendum, I sincerely doubt that this will kill off smaller companies. Maybe the current small companies. But new ones will crop up. The fact is smaller companies are, by necessity, more innovative than larger companies. They're smarter about opening up alternative revenue streams because they have fewer available options. That's why small companies are bought up by bigger companies all the time. Its capitalist competition at its finest. When a big company and a small company go after the same revenue stream, the big company always wins. Small companies focus their efforts on revenue sources that big companies can't reach (and thus the impetus for big companies to buy them). The most successful small companies become big companies as a result.
Hobbes here makes many good points. Good show. That having been said, to make games these days costs MUCHO DINERO, hence the anti-piracy bandwagon that the devs jump on, along with the propogation of terrible DRM. They're attempting to preserve their investments, and it's slowly becoming futile. Hopefully companies start to realize this, and find some good way of dealing with the situation.
 

elmaxx

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Oct 2, 2008
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nilcypher said:
And the really sad thing is, this will not hurt the 'blood thirsty media companies' that they so despise anywhere near as much as small developers who aren't shipping to every market.
Sad? why?
Because people want change for themselves and not by appointing one person to do the work for them? (ie. a new president)

By actively joining a political party there will be a revolution not only to make a change politically but also culturally.

No longer will people ***** and moan in forums, but actually engage in educated and civil dialogue in courts and public gatherings so laws and reforms will actually have a real impact.

Sad is when people can't foresee a real and ongoing threat to privacy and huge corporations leeching and sucking the life out of innovation and development.
 

elmaxx

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Oct 2, 2008
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scotth266 said:
Hobbes here makes many good points. Good show. That having been said, to make games these days costs MUCHO DINERO, hence the anti-piracy bandwagon that the devs jump on, along with the propogation of terrible DRM. They're attempting to preserve their investments, and it's slowly becoming futile. Hopefully companies start to realize this, and find some good way of dealing with the situation.
The magic word, DRM, thank you for bringing that up. What a way to insult paying customers.

Steam is a great platform, unfortunately there's a lot of problems with it, as you travel to different places, you can't just click a game and play it, you forcefully have to be connected to the internet, then do x, y and z, and you may enjoy the game you paid for.

On the other hand, piracy (again) makes this process nonexistent.

Am i promoting piracy? no, i dont have a problem in paying for good games and telling people they should do the same to support their favorite developers.

What i want is to be able to be free to access what i paid for whenever i want.

And if piracy means getting a crack to get to what i paid for (entertainment)... Arrrrrr matey ;)
 

Nutcase

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Dec 3, 2008
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Areani said:
I'm Swedish and the next election will be the first one I'm now old enough to participate in. Should I vote for them? Probably not, but I'm not at all happy with what has happened to The Pirate Bay.
Why not?

Minority parties are at their most effective (at furthering a particular issue) when their existence and rising support threaten the major parties' powerbase, and force the major parties to address the issue seriously. Do you think major Swedish parties could use a kick in the pants? Unless you find a candidate you *really* like, it's better to vote for people who stir shit up (such as PP) and hope there's a good candidate next time, than vote for the guy who "isn't quite as evil as the other guy". Doing the latter leads out of democracy, into a monstrous consensus of few ruling parties where votes are as good as toilet paper.
 

Skrapt

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Nutcase said:
Minority parties are at their most effective (at furthering a particular issue) when their existence and rising support threaten the major parties' powerbase, and force the major parties to address the issue seriously. Do you think major Swedish parties could use a kick in the pants? Unless you find a candidate you *really* like, it's better to vote for people who stir shit up (such as PP) and hope there's a good candidate next time, than vote for the guy who "isn't quite as evil as the other guy". Doing the latter leads out of democracy, into a monstrous consensus of few ruling parties where votes are as good as toilet paper.
It's sad that this makes so much sense... if the Pirate Party doesn't get a good few votes the politicians will keep on legislating excessively on the sides of the copyright holders with no concerns for privacy or consumer rights until they realize that they might lose their seat because they are alienating the voters.
 

Hedberger

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Mar 19, 2008
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nilcypher said:
CapnJack said:
To claim that "these guys just want to steal" is nothing short of ignorance. You can't make that false assertion without reading what they actually stand for.
That's technically true, but only technically. Piratpartiet platform is based around the idea that there should be no such thing as copyright when talking about personal use. Which means that what we currently refer to as piracy, would be perfectly legal.

This raises an interesting question for games, as 'personal use' defines most aspects of gaming. If publishers are no longer able to prevent people from sharing their games, what motivation do they have to release the game in the first place? Essentially, one person in the country would need to buy it and then that person could freely distribute it to anyone who wanted it.

The only model I can think off that would let the publishers make their money back is by making games ad supported, but I shudder to think at how many ads it would take to break even on a triple A title, let alone make a profit. Unless of course the publisher decides not to release it for retail, but makes it solely available for internet-café style gaming establishments.

And the really sad thing is, this will not hurt the 'blood thirsty media companies' that they so despise anywhere near as much as small developers who aren't shipping to every market.
They don't want to abolish copyright the want to shorten it to 10-5 years.

If you people like i could provide a translation of their ideas from their homepage?
 

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
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Hedberger said:
nilcypher said:
CapnJack said:
To claim that "these guys just want to steal" is nothing short of ignorance. You can't make that false assertion without reading what they actually stand for.
That's technically true, but only technically. Piratpartiet platform is based around the idea that there should be no such thing as copyright when talking about personal use. Which means that what we currently refer to as piracy, would be perfectly legal.

This raises an interesting question for games, as 'personal use' defines most aspects of gaming. If publishers are no longer able to prevent people from sharing their games, what motivation do they have to release the game in the first place? Essentially, one person in the country would need to buy it and then that person could freely distribute it to anyone who wanted it.

The only model I can think off that would let the publishers make their money back is by making games ad supported, but I shudder to think at how many ads it would take to break even on a triple A title, let alone make a profit. Unless of course the publisher decides not to release it for retail, but makes it solely available for internet-café style gaming establishments.

And the really sad thing is, this will not hurt the 'blood thirsty media companies' that they so despise anywhere near as much as small developers who aren't shipping to every market.
They don't want to abolish copyright the want to shorten it to 10-5 years.

If you people like i could provide a translation of their ideas from their homepage?
I read the English page they put it up, but thank you for the offer.

The 5-10 year thing is solely for commercial use, they believe that any personal use, which encompasses most gaming, should be copyright free.
 

painfull2006

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Jul 2, 2008
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I dont really see the point in fighting piracy, its ALWAYS going to be around

i like to look at it this way, anything that i have downloaded in the past has either been a tv show that doesn't run any more and isn't on DVD or music that i like one or two songs on the CD and i feel its not worth buying

so really, if im not going to be giving my money to these greedy huge companies then in MY opinion its ok :)

redmarine said:
GO GO GO PIRATE BAY!
 

Hedberger

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Mar 19, 2008
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I wonder if it would be a good idea with statefinanced culture?

Higher taxes in exchange for all the culture you want. The artist would always have a guaranteed paycheck. No record companies that take most of the money.
 

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
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elmaxx said:
nilcypher said:
And the really sad thing is, this will not hurt the 'blood thirsty media companies' that they so despise anywhere near as much as small developers who aren't shipping to every market.
Sad? why?
Because people want change for themselves and not by appointing one person to do the work for them? (ie. a new president)

By actively joining a political party there will be a revolution not only to make a change politically but also culturally.

No longer will people ***** and moan in forums, but actually engage in educated and civil dialogue in courts and public gatherings so laws and reforms will actually have a real impact.

Sad is when people can't foresee a real and ongoing threat to privacy and huge corporations leeching and sucking the life out of innovation and development.
Are you even reading the posts you're quoting?
 

Leroy Frederick

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Jan 27, 2009
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painfull2006 said:
i like one or two songs on the CD and i feel its not worth buying

so really, if im not going to be giving my money to these greedy huge companies then in MY opinion its ok :)

redmarine said:
GO GO GO PIRATE BAY!
Pirates don't care about whether your a greedy corporation, they put indie stuff up for stealing too. As far as your analogy for justifying stealing music, that makes no sense either (assuming it's available in the following example) because itunes and the like allow you to buy singles from as little as £1 / $1 or less and not liking the whole album doesn't justify stealing a few songs instead off it instead.

It's been said already and I'll say it again, 90-95% of people steal (not pirate, steal) other peoples work because they don't want to pay and can get away with it, simply as that. It has nothing to do with quality, DRM, no demo, no money, only liked 1 song, motorway gridlock, sticking it to the man, freedom for everyone, being Robin Hood or any other bullshit excuses these 90-95% come up with.

ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT A COMMODITY. If this party was ensuring everybody has a right to live and eat then power to them, if pirate bay was helping third world countries get a little joy in their life they otherwise couldn't afford then power to them too (although I think food & water is a bit higher up in their pecking order) but none of this is the case.

I don't give a shit whether it's Microsoft or 2dBoy, it's all anonymous digital-equivalent retail store theft. If you want to show the evil corporations or think something is crap, don't frigging buy it, simple as, no one is forcing you. This isn't the flipping British (forced) TV license where you have to pay just for owning a device that transmits TV whether you watch their stations or not, now that's a cause pirates should be dealing with, not stuff you have a choice in buying and no God given right to as a basic life provision.

I'd for love these people to try taking games, music and other entertainment from retail stores without paying for some of the same lame reasons they come up with and see if they don't end up learning the fine art of picking up soap for their troubles.
 

Lord Krunk

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Mar 3, 2008
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Pathetic. Myself, I would send them all off to jail right there; this case is a really good chance to smoke the bastards out of their hidey holes.

They're not going to win though. 18000 people is nothing compared to the whole freaking nation.
 

macatombe

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Mar 8, 2009
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i'm against piracy but i think its ridiculous what happened to pirate bay creators. you shouldent be given prison time for piracy