Pirating Game Dev Tycoon Dooms Players to be Ruined By Piracy

omega 616

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hazabaza1 said:
tiny pink invincible scorpion
Whut? If it's invisible how do you know how big it is, what colour it is and what it looks like?

Wait, does that mean it's legal to download or what? 'cos I kind of want to play this version, sounds interesting.
 

Jennacide

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See, this is how you do DRM if you want to. Don't do anything that is a burden to paying customers, just subtly torture the pirates with annoyances. My favorite DRM ever put into something remains the Earthbound piracy measures, which made the monster spawn rate unbearably high, and should you get to the final boss, it'll hard crash and delete your saves, haha.
 

lacktheknack

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A-D. said:
You know (this is generally speaking, not to the person quoted alone), cause most people have morals and tend to pirate cause they cant indulge in their favourite pasttime to make ends meet, you know, rent, food etc. And if you want to bring up "Well then they shouldnt play at all." i will reply simply with this.

If you arent capable of any kind of empathy, or critical and logical thought, please turn in your brain, evidently you have no need for it. If you dont have enough money for rent, should you then "not have a home"? If you do not have enough money for food, should you then "not eat at all"? Note here, eating is necessary, a home is not. Before anyone brings up the argument of necessity vs luxury.
Shelter IS a necessity. Maybe you should look up the necessities before you post stuff like this.

Let's imagine that you have your necessities taken care of, but doing so leaves you with no money.

So, as long as you have:
-a roof over your head
-water
-slight variety of food
-human contact
-clothing
-heat and electricity

...then YES, you should DAMN WELL go without:
-a car
-decorations
-gourmet food
-gadgets
-new games

I've done it. What makes everyone else a special snowflake that they don't have to go through "poor" stages of life?
 

HannesPascal

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If the developers themselves put up the torrent of the game doesn't that make it okay to download it? It would kinda be like a car salesman giving you the keys to a car and then claiming you're stealing it when you drive it away.
 

lacktheknack

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JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
Also, you're right, it doesn't give indication of lost sales. So therefore, it's EXACTLY as valid as your claims that piracy is helpful. Except for one thing: At least I have a NUMBER. That's better than anything YOU can give me.
You have a figure that is meaningless, I have provided examples of where piracy has helped a game, I.E Minecraft. Give me one example where piracy has significantly damaged a game.
I said no theoretical arguments.

You said that large amounts of Minecraft YouTube players were "probably" pirates. YOU HAVE NO NUMBERS TO BACK YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.

Thus, your assumptions are EQUALLY VALID TO MINE.

But fine, piracy caused always-online DRM. We know this because the developers and publishers specifically said it was in place to combat pirates. Therefore, this isn't theoretical.

Therefore, if it wasn't for pirates, we wouldn't have had the disasters that were Assassin's Creed II, Diablo 3, and SimCity server crashes.

Your move.
 

JazzJack2

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lacktheknack said:
A-D. said:
You know (this is generally speaking, not to the person quoted alone), cause most people have morals and tend to pirate cause they cant indulge in their favourite pasttime to make ends meet, you know, rent, food etc. And if you want to bring up "Well then they shouldnt play at all." i will reply simply with this.

If you arent capable of any kind of empathy, or critical and logical thought, please turn in your brain, evidently you have no need for it. If you dont have enough money for rent, should you then "not have a home"? If you do not have enough money for food, should you then "not eat at all"? Note here, eating is necessary, a home is not. Before anyone brings up the argument of necessity vs luxury.
Shelter IS a necessity. Maybe you should look up the necessities before you post stuff like this.

Let's imagine that you have your necessities taken care of, but doing so leaves you with no money.

So, as long as you have:
-a roof over your head
-water
-slight variety of food
-human contact
-clothing
-heat and electricity

...then YES, you should DAMN WELL go without:
-a car
-decorations
-gourmet food
-gadgets
-new games

I've done it. What makes everyone else a special snowflake that they don't have to go through "poor" stages of life?
Welp this is how shit the gaming community has become, games are no longer art or entertainment made with love and care but a luxury product designed to make money, a product you can only get by guzzling down mountains of corporate cum. No developer that actually cared about their game would say people shouldn't play it if they can't afford it.
 

Voltano

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lacktheknack said:
The "Too Many Pirates" version is a separate version uploaded to the various torrent sites.

Legitimate customers have no reason to get close to it.
And the legitimate customers are...?

These 'legitimate customers' could be the ones who never heard of this game before all of this. The demo, I presume, is only provided by the developer's Web site that may not get as much attention as, say, Steam or PirateBay.org. Maybe some pirates are willing to purchase a game if they get a good experience out of the project, as the Anodyne developers did.

But no one likes a troll, and the last thing we do with trolls is give them money to stop us from being trolled. That's one point with my cupcake example: I shouldn't be rewarded for trolling 'legitimate customers', even if the thief turns around and pays for the cupcake. I'm not "punishing pirates" as this statement from the developers claim; I'm annoying my 'legitimate customers' from purchasing my product.
 

Thyunda

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HannesPascal said:
If the developers themselves put up the torrent of the game doesn't that make it okay to download it? It would kinda be like a car salesman giving you the keys to a car and then claiming you're stealing it when you drive it away.
It would be more akin to a salesman leaving the keys on a bar and going to the toilet. You shouldn't be looking for things to torrent. If you weren't, you wouldn't have found it.

Slightly different to my analogy, I know. But you COULD say that leaving it on a bar is the equivalent to leaving it among untrustworthy strangers with an invitation to take it. Even though it's a remarkably stupid move, it's STILL illegal to take the keys.
 

lacktheknack

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JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
Shelter IS a necessity. Maybe you should look up the necessities before you post stuff like this.

Let's imagine that you have your necessities taken care of, but doing so leaves you with no money.

So, as long as you have:
-a roof over your head
-water
-slight variety of food
-human contact
-clothing
-heat and electricity

...then YES, you should DAMN WELL go without:
-a car
-decorations
-gourmet food
-gadgets
-new games

I've done it. What makes everyone else a special snowflake that they don't have to go through "poor" stages of life?
Welp this is how shit the gaming community has become, games are no longer art or entertainment made with love and care but a luxury product designed to make money, a product you can only get by guzzling down mountains of corporate cum. No developer that actually cared about their game would say people shouldn't play it if they can't afford it.
Art/entertainment = necessity?

"Guzzling mountains of corporate cum"?

"No developer that actually cared would say you [should pay for it]"?

Are you human, or a whirling vortex of bizarre non-sequiturs that you picked up off the internet?

I dare you to back up your statements, especially the corporate cum one. I DARE YOU.
 

JazzJack2

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lacktheknack said:
JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
Also, you're right, it doesn't give indication of lost sales. So therefore, it's EXACTLY as valid as your claims that piracy is helpful. Except for one thing: At least I have a NUMBER. That's better than anything YOU can give me.
You have a figure that is meaningless, I have provided examples of where piracy has helped a game, I.E Minecraft. Give me one example where piracy has significantly damaged a game.
I said no theoretical arguments.

You said that large amounts of Minecraft YouTube players were "probably" pirates. YOU HAVE NO NUMBERS TO BACK YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.
I don't remember saying anything about Youtube LPs, But Notch himself has said Minecraft has a 70% piracy rate and in my opinion (and Notch's) this was a driving force behind Minecraft's success as by taping into a userbase it wouldn't have without piracy it went viral.

Your comment on DRM is also moot, Piracy does not cause DRM, publishers choose to use it, however DRM definitely does cause piracy.
 

Space Jawa

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HannesPascal said:
If the developers themselves put up the torrent of the game doesn't that make it okay to download it? It would kinda be like a car salesman giving you the keys to a car and then claiming you're stealing it when you drive it away.
Is anyone here complaining about this situation? I'm not seeing any debate about the games developers themselves put online.

The "debate" is about games that developers don't put online that people insist on bootlegging anyway.

Bocaj2000 said:
There is a major misconception here. Pirates aren't people who "want free stuff".
Right, they just want to play and own these games without having to pay for them.

Which I think is about the same thing as "wanting free stuff". Rose by any other name...

Bocaj2000 said:
I don't even think you know what kind of people pirate. They tend to come in two varieties: students and the poor; the people who pirate are those who cannot afford the $5 steam sales that go on every day or the $10 games off of Good Old Games. Do you want to know why piracy rates are through the roof? Because most gamers are students, between the ages of 5 to 25, and most of which don't have jobs. The 13 year old pirates because there's no other way he will get the game, not because he's a free loader.
That doesn't entitle them to free games! That doesn't entitle them to things they want but don't need because "I want it." How is what you're describing not a freeloader? How does not being able to afford these games justify them bootlegging them just because they feel 'entitled' to play them? If they can't afford $5 or $10 for a game on sale, it sounds they've got a lot bigger problems than "I can't afford to buy that game".

Bocaj2000 said:
If a thief steals from Walmart and complains about the poor quality of the product, it is a valid complaint.
As is the complaint about the thief stealing from Wal-Mart in the first place.
 

lacktheknack

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Voltano said:
lacktheknack said:
The "Too Many Pirates" version is a separate version uploaded to the various torrent sites.

Legitimate customers have no reason to get close to it.
And the legitimate customers are...?

These 'legitimate customers' could be the ones who never heard of this game before all of this. The demo, I presume, is only provided by the developer's Web site that may not get as much attention as, say, Steam or PirateBay.org. Maybe some pirates are willing to purchase a game if they get a good experience out of the project, as the Anodyne developers did.

But no one likes a troll, and the last thing we do with trolls is give them money to stop us from being trolled. That's one point with my cupcake example: I shouldn't be rewarded for trolling 'legitimate customers', even if the thief turns around and pays for the cupcake. I'm not "punishing pirates" as this statement from the developers claim; I'm annoying my 'legitimate customers' from purchasing my product.
You fail economics forever.

You are not a "legitimate customer" until you buy the product. Before that, your'e a potential customer. Huge difference.

In your cupcake example, there is a little stand with free slices of cupcake on it. That's the demo.

The maggoty cupcakes are on the counter, but NEVER SERVED to anyone who buys a cupcake. The good ones are behind the counter, and you give them a good one when they buy one. They get to have a slice before they buy any.

Now, in your example, if a potential customer grabs a maggoty cupcake and runs, they are now a thief. In the REAL world, thieves are banned from the store - they get their face posted on the billboard in the back, they aren't allowed back in the store. Pirates at least are allowed back in afterwards.

But the guy with the maggoty cupcake won't come back, AND THAT'S FINE BY THE STORE. He had NO REASON to grab that cupcake aside from sociopathic greed. He's a thief, not a potential legitimate customer.
 

Covarr

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May 29, 2009
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I wanted to buy this game, sight unseen, after reading this. I can't, because their website is down (is too much traffic from news stories like this to blame?), and they haven't been greenlit on Steam yet. All y'all, go greenlight them right away.

P.S. Thanks
 

lacktheknack

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JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
Also, you're right, it doesn't give indication of lost sales. So therefore, it's EXACTLY as valid as your claims that piracy is helpful. Except for one thing: At least I have a NUMBER. That's better than anything YOU can give me.
You have a figure that is meaningless, I have provided examples of where piracy has helped a game, I.E Minecraft. Give me one example where piracy has significantly damaged a game.
I said no theoretical arguments.

You said that large amounts of Minecraft YouTube players were "probably" pirates. YOU HAVE NO NUMBERS TO BACK YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.
I don't remember saying anything about Youtube LPs, But Notch himself has said Minecraft has a 70% piracy rate and in my opinion (and Notch's) this was a driving force behind Minecraft's success as by taping into a userbase it wouldn't have without piracy it went viral.

Your comment on DRM is also moot, Piracy does not cause DRM, publishers choose to use it, however DRM definitely does cause piracy.
It's not moot. DRM exists because of pirates. Thus, it's something terrible that's been done to games because of pirates.

Publisher reaction is just that: REACTION to something.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and denying things doesn't make you right.
 

JazzJack2

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lacktheknack said:
Art/entertainment = necessity?

"Guzzling mountains of corporate cum"?

"No developer that actually cared would say you [should pay for it]"?

Are you human, or a whirling vortex of bizarre non-sequiturs that you picked up off the internet?

I dare you to back up your statements, especially the corporate cum one. I DARE YOU.
A developer that cared about his craft would want as many people to play his game as possible, he would not pass judgment on how people choose to get it, a dev that condemns piracy cares only about money and not about art or craftsmanship. Publishers frequently enforce the idea that their practices are necessary and games only exist as business and not an artform. And the worst part is people are gullible enough to believe this, I frequently see people saying DRM is necessary or microtransactions are fine, they are 'guzzling corporate cum' so to speak.
 

BigD145

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"The developer said that it has conducted this social experiment as a way to try and open gamer's eyes to just how damaging piracy can be. The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately."

The dev themselves offered up a cracked version that was basically hard mode for a casual game that is not original at all. Why wouldn't people get that one for free? It's a slightly better Game Dev Story and worse (dumbed down) than older game tycoon games.

lacktheknack said:
JazzJack2 said:
But piracy doesn't make developers lose money, in fact it does the opposite, devs gain money from piracy.
I'm going to believe the dev who:

-releases a demo
-releases the game DRM free
-only had 6.4% of the day one purchases actually be legitimate

...over you, a faceless dude with an axe to grind.

Repeating "devs gain money" doesn't make it true. Give me a non-theoretical reason to believe you, or I'll just continue to smack "6.4%" in your face.
And yet EA does fine. Wonder of wonders.
 

JazzJack2

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lacktheknack said:
It's not moot. DRM exists because of pirates. Thus, it's something terrible that's been done to games because of pirates.

Publisher reaction is just that: REACTION to something.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and denying things doesn't make you right.
Plenty of companies in face of piracy choose not to put in DRM though, and if a company is stupid enough to so then that is purely their choice and is not the fault of the pirates.
 

Space Jawa

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JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
Art/entertainment = necessity?

"Guzzling mountains of corporate cum"?

"No developer that actually cared would say you [should pay for it]"?

Are you human, or a whirling vortex of bizarre non-sequiturs that you picked up off the internet?

I dare you to back up your statements, especially the corporate cum one. I DARE YOU.
A developer that cared about his craft would want as many people to play his game as possible, he would not pass judgment on how people choose to get it, a dev that condemns piracy cares only about money and not about art or craftsmanship. Publishers frequently enforce the idea that their practices are necessary and games only exist as business and not an artform. And the worst part is people are gullible enough to believe this, I frequently see people saying DRM is necessary or microtransactions are fine, they are 'guzzling corporate cum' so to speak.
Really? You don't think a person who cares about the craft might also care about whether the people who are enjoying it paid to enjoy it or if those people said "I want to enjoy this, money be darned! I DESERVE to enjoy this!" and decided to enjoy it without compensating the person who made it?

Have you ever considered that the "artform" you call video games probably wouldn't exist as we know them if it weren't for business and corporations? They certainly wouldn't be as prolific and you probably never would have even heard of the vast majority of the most popular titles.
 

lacktheknack

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JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
Art/entertainment = necessity?

"Guzzling mountains of corporate cum"?

"No developer that actually cared would say you [should pay for it]"?

Are you human, or a whirling vortex of bizarre non-sequiturs that you picked up off the internet?

I dare you to back up your statements, especially the corporate cum one. I DARE YOU.
A developer that cared about his craft would want as many people to play his game as possible, he would not pass judgment on how people choose to get it, a dev that condemns piracy cares only about money and not about art or craftsmanship. Publishers frequently enforce the idea that their practices are necessary and games only exist as business and not an artform. And the worst part is people are gullible enough to believe this, I frequently see people saying DRM is necessary or microtransactions are fine, they are 'guzzling corporate cum' so to speak.
An artist does NOT compromise his artistic integrity if he dumps thousands of dollars into something and then wants people to pay for entry.

Sometimes, the artist cares deeply about his product, and that's WHY he doesn't want people just taking it without paying. Why can we not have both?

Also, you realize that art galleries aren't free to enter, right?

JazzJack2 said:
lacktheknack said:
It's not moot. DRM exists because of pirates. Thus, it's something terrible that's been done to games because of pirates.

Publisher reaction is just that: REACTION to something.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and denying things doesn't make you right.
Plenty of companies in face of piracy choose not to put in DRM though, and if a company is stupid enough to so then that is purely their choice and is not the fault of the pirates.
Regardless of how it's implemented by whom now, IT STILL STARTED BECAUSE OF PIRATES. You cannot deny that.
 

Vrach

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TopazFusion said:
It would be easy to get around it though. In the sim, just make all your games "always online". That'll stop the pirates!

So, he just said "I pirated before and that was ok, but now it's not anymore"? Price of the games is more often a factor than their availability - or rather, the price is what makes it unavailable to some people and not whether it's physically or digitally "available" in their area.