Playing as a mage (or wizard, sorcerer, etc) in fantasy RPG's.

[Misterian]

For those that took up trying to be a master of the arcane arts, how would you describe your experience taking up the class in certain games?

With Dragon Age: Origins, I actually found playing a Elf Mage alot of fun (more-so than the other 2 classes, but I won't get to that.). I loved bombarding baddies with my various powerful spells, and I found hilariously ironic that with all the Chantry's going on about how "Magic is there to serve man and never to rule over him" Yet My Elf Mage got to become an Arl in Awakening yet no one in the Chantry to so much as bats an eye, despite the fact they attacked when I refused to hand over Anders (who is an apostate AND blood mage mind you, and my mage also uses blood magic).

Is this because my mage is a Grey Warden? if not, can anyone explain any other reason why the Chantry wouldn't object to my Elf Mage (that can use Blood Magic) ruling over Amaranthine?


Anyway, with Oblivion, I actually found being a mage abit of game breaker (if still pretty fun).

With Oblivion, if you play a pure mage you can eventually find yourself able to unlock almost any lock, disintegrate weapons and armor, et centra. And unless you come across a certain Arena fighter with an anti-magic shield, you'd be practically invincible.


Which I guess is one reason magic in somewhat overhauled in Skyrim, it's still pretty fun and sometimes even intense. but unless I cast a magic armor spell ahead of time, I keep finding myself quickly shot down by archers. And when rival mages use wards on me it got a little annoying, but using the Staff of Magnus has helped rectify the situation.


But enough about me and my times, What can you tell me about your times wielding the awesome powers of magic in RPG's?

 

[Fat Hippo]

Why the chantry never seems to notice that you're a mage? Because the writing in Dragon Age is actually shit. This isn't flame bait, or at least I don't want it to be. Just my opinion.

Personally, I think mages are most fun in party-based RPGs, because this allows them to fully revel in their role as glass cannons, like in the Baldur's Gate games. Sure, they've got spells that will potentially mess up entire rooms of monsters, but one good hit from something bigger, and they just start leaking blood all over. Never mind the danger of a badly placed AoE spell toasting your own guys.

Of course, a game like Skyrim wouldn't be much fun with a character like that, although I still prefer playing a mage, since it keeps you from the awful melee combat.

Damn, I'm negative today.

 

[Professor Lupin Madblood]

Is this because my mage is a Grey Warden? if not, can anyone explain any other reason why the Chantry wouldn't object to my Elf Mage (that can use Blood Magic) ruling over Amaranthine?

Well, you did kind of save the world. That goes a long way with pretty much anyone. Plus, this is a game where you can make a character like Wynne become a blood mage, so they do rely heavily on gameplay and story segregation.

OT:

Not sure what this topic is supposed to be about, if indeed it was intended to be more than bragging. Tell you about my times I played a wizard in an RPG? What does that even mean? Which times? Funny or sad? Glitchy or massively in-character?

 

[Misterian]

Is this because my mage is a Grey Warden? if not, can anyone explain any other reason why the Chantry wouldn't object to my Elf Mage (that can use Blood Magic) ruling over Amaranthine?

Well, you did kind of save the world. That goes a long way with pretty much anyone. Plus, this is a game where you can make a character like Wynne become a blood mage, so they do rely heavily on gameplay and story segregation.

OT:

Not sure what this topic is supposed to be about, if indeed it was intended to be more than bragging. Tell you about my times I played a wizard in an RPG? What does that even mean? Which times? Funny or sad? Glitchy or massively in-character?

I meant your experiences being a video game mage in general, what makes it stick out? what is being a mage in game x compared to doing so game y? what's interesting about playing the close gameplay or story wise? things like that.

 

[Thoric485]

I usually go for warrior types, but I had a lot of fun as a mage in Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

Seeing a smouldering fireball form in your hands and then navigating it precisely through the air, watching your character's hands shake more and more as they charge up an electric bolt (which will damage you if you hold it too long), using an ice spell to freeze mobs in place or casting it at the ground to trip them, shrinking them to the size of mouses with the adrenaline effect of the weaken spell and flinging bodies around with telekinesis, or just slapping them around with a staff was all so, so gratifying.

And it was all part of just one viable approach. The stealth, melee and archery were executed with the same fluidity, spectacular animation and unmatched use of physics, even in multiplayer. I like a lot of aspects of the TES games, but this type of personal and visceral combat is what they've always been missing for me. Sadly Dishonored did too.

 

[DoPo]

For those that took up trying to be a master of the arcane arts, how would you describe your experience taking up the class in certain games?
[...]
But enough about me and my times, What can you tell me about your times wielding the awesome powers of magic in RPG's?

OK, if you say so

With Dragon Age: Origins,

Actually, let me find my post on the matter

Spoiler: Spoilered to conserve space

Too many people have said it but none have managed to state it properly. Here is how the game is played - you have a party of four people and you generally have the following roles - cannon fodder (warrior), beatstick (warrior), dead weight (rogues), God (mages). As for the party itself, you need:

- a dead weight - to open locks/disable traps. Since these can specialise in ranged or melee, maybe ranged is better, because they tend to survive longer in a fight. However, I've had several experiences with a melee dead weight that manages to use some of the more powerful abilities in the beginning and as such turns (very) briefly into a cannon fodder and a beatstick. Don't take more than one, it's a waste of space.
- beatstick - give them a weapon or two and give them the boring job - grind down the HP of the enemies. God should just stand back and do the actual work - buff/debuff and own the fight.
- cannon fodder - they are there to absorb damage, obviously. They can even turn into HP batteries for God later on (Blood Mages). You definitely need one to take the heat. Also try to keep him alive for a bit but he's not essential for the entire fight. Also, don't play a cannon fodder. Beatsticks and God should focus on finishing the battle, even the dead weight can be a more contributing factor there.
- God - one, preferably you, and maybe two to split the responsibility and double the effectiveness. The responsibility of God is to win. Pure and simple.

There are specialisations for God, that (unless those of lesser classes) actually matter - they are the following:
- Shapeshifter - useless. Worse than the dead weight.
- Spirit Healer - not too bad but one of your party members will already have that. It is still possible to pick it if you are God.
- Blood Mage - you have to get it. Period. You (or one of the other Gods) will absolutely troll the battlefield - the first ability, Blood Magic, will make you cast from HP. Not impressive but can give you extra juice to win a fight. The second ability, Blood Sacrifice, takes HP from those party members that don't need it (i.e., not Gods) and gives it to you. The third is Blood Wound. THIS IS WHY YOU PICKED A BLOOD MAGE. Is that clear? No? OK, here, let me rephrase: DOT and immobilisation for everyone in a huge AOE and neither is broken if the targets are attacked afterwards. Only works on enemies with blood, which means most of them. Oh and there is also Blood Control - pick an enemy and make it an ally. Or deal massive damage if it fails (although there was a bug that didn't deal the damage, IIRC).
- Arcane Warrior - if you want to take over the job of beatsticks and cannon fodder and be better at it. It does take some planning to use effectively but an Arcane Warrior Blood Mage (yes, you can have two specialisations) is probably the most powerful being you'll encounter. And you'll be that being if you're playing God.

As for what you play, you can take the role of the dead weight - it's actually fun and if you're doing the job, chances are you'll be able to considerably outdo the other dead weights. To the point where you're useful to the fight. It makes the whole party more effective because you don't need to drag a true dead weight with you.

This is, more or less, an accurate description of wizards in a lot of games, too.

I usually go for warrior types, but I had a lot of fun as a mage in Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

Seeing a smouldering fireball form in your hands and then navigating it precisely through the air, watching your character's hands shake more and more as they charge up an electric bolt (which will damage you if you hold it too long), using an ice spell to freeze mobs in place or casting it at the ground to trip them, shrinking them to the size of mouses with the adrenaline effect of the weaken spell and flinging bodies around with telekinesis, or just slapping them around with a staff was all so, so gratifying.

Actually, I found playing a mage frustrating there. In the beginning, you cannot take on many enemies, since your mana runs out too fast. This means that you need to invest the XP you get into mana, rather than new cool spells. OK, it does get better, but you are still running a significant portion of the game with only the lame firebolts. Which work, but there is no variety at all.

 

[Brandon237]

In Dragon Age, I could never consider playing another class. Even Alistair who was permanently with my little posse had less than a quarter the kills my elven mage had. It was ridiculous. If my beautiful mage went down at any point I basically just reloaded / died on purpose to do the fight PROPERLY.

In Skyrim magic scales so badly and needs so many trees to be useful that you don't actually ever role a pure mage. Unless you want to suffer. Thief with illusion = A+. Warrior with alteration / restoration = perfect. Pure mage needs destruction to be viable. Destruction is shit. It is beyond shit. If there is another DLC it needs to completely re-empower destruction magic and give it some ability to scale. My mage starts strong and gets weaker every level. All my non-pure mages do the exact opposite -.-
It all comes down to destruction is shit, conjuration is bugged (and as your main form of offence, shit), magicka regen in battle is shit, above level 40 illusion is shit unless you want to run around like and invisible pansy mage the whole time.

And in Diablo 3... wizard was fun. But Diablo 3 is shit.

 

[zenoaugustus]

In Dragon Age, I could never consider playing another class. Even Alistair who was permanently with my little posse had less than a quarter the kills my elven mage had. It was ridiculous. If my beautiful mage went down at any point I basically just reloaded / died on purpose to do the fight PROPERLY.

In Skyrim magic scales so badly and needs so many trees to be useful that you don't actually ever role a pure mage. Unless you want to suffer. Thief with illusion = A+. Warrior with alteration / restoration = perfect. Pure mage needs destruction to be viable. Destruction is shit. It is beyond shit. If there is another DLC it needs to completely re-empower destruction magic and give it some ability to scale. My mage starts strong and gets weaker every level. All my non-pure mages do the exact opposite -.-
It all comes down to destruction is shit, conjuration is bugged (and as your main form of offence, shit), magicka regen in battle is shit, above level 40 illusion is shit unless you want to run around like and invisible pansy mage the whole time.

And in Diablo 3... wizard was fun. But Diablo 3 is shit.

I absolutely disagree with your assessment of magic in Skyrim. Conjuration (get 100, make two Dremora Lords, and you're chillin) + Alteration (for armor purposes, the perks in this tree also shield you from magic) + Destruction (when you need to, but with 100 Conjuration you almost never need to) + Restoration (when shit gets worrisome). Illusion is kinda useless unless you already are somewhat decent in sneak. But yeah, I had a real easy time with those four trees combined (on Expert, then Master difficulty).

Edit:

For the OP, I almost also roll some kind of magic character. In WoW, I was a Druid. In DA:O, I was a Mage (spirit healer + arcane warrior). In Oblivion and Skyrim I was a warrior-mage. If I like the game I will probably reroll a thief of some kind.

I think I just have some kind of problem with branching out.

 

[darlarosa]

My experience has generally been that playing a mage or magic-ish class can be fun, but most games constructed under the premise that in order to be balanced mages have to be massively defenseless, even in games where magic users don't necessarily become overpowered as compared to other classes.

I love Dragon Age: Origins because as a mage I never felt like I was defenseless and I was even able to wear armor. It was one of the first games where I felt like I did not have to babysit any casters. With Skyrim I didn't really enjoy being a mage because I felt like I was running away to keep distance before just smashing things with my mace.

 

[MrPhyntch]

In Dragon Age: Origins the Chantry doesn't come after you because you were conscripted by the grey wardens. As to why they attacked when you conscript Anders but not when Duncan conscripts you? that would be because Duncan is implied to be owed everything by everyone. Likewise he takes you directly from the mage's tower, on top of which it is recorded that you passed the harrowing; you've had the training that the chantry believes mages need. You also get taken under the authority of someone much more friendly. When you take Anders, all that's around are a couple of Chantry Zealots, Anders is alrady an apostate and an accused Blood Mage, nor has he had his harrowing, the archmage is not around to give his blessing, and (potentially) you're already a freed mage walking on thin ice with the chantry, but they put up with it because of the whole warden thing. When you take Anders, however, it looks like one apostate is trying to save another one from justice, causing them to lose all graces and attack.

Or, there's the thing that if they really cared, it would make Awakening nearly impossible to play as a mage. Remember Yahtzee's 3 Fs: Fun, Functional, Flowing. The assault on you by the chantry would not have been too fun, fighting nothing but the chantry all game; nor would it have been very functional, taking away the possibility of playing a mage and having the same game as the other classes; nor would it be Flowing, completely overriding the intended story. As was said above, you can make Wynne a blood mage should you desire. Segregation of story and gameplay.

My experience has generally been that playing a mage or magic-ish class can be fun, but most games constructed under the premise that in order to be balanced mages have to be massively defenseless, even in games where magic users don't necessarily become overpowered as compared to other classes.

This. Or the other limit they put on mages: Ridiculous Mana costs. I refuse to play Cailou in Recettear because of these two limitations: He requires a lot of mana, and he has to fight melee (while being incredibly squishy AND slow) to regen it. No thanks.

That being said, in League of Legends my favorite characters are mages, Taking magic in KoA:R is a stupid thing NOT to do, and mages tend to be the most broken in Tactical RPG's, like Final Fantasy Tactics or Fire Emblem.

Captcha: "Please describe this brand you've never heard of in any word(s)"
What is this I don't even....

 

[darlarosa]

Also wanna throw out there. I'm so sick of robes. They don't even make sense other than to visually denote classes, which in a single player game isn't terribly necessary. My mage would probably be running around with a cloak and pants after a while not a fucking robe it's just impractical D<

 

[DoPo]

In D&D, I looked through the class books for "What spell does the most damage over the largest area?" and "What class learns it fastest?"

And funnily, the direct damage spells are the least useful ones in D&D. Well, prior to 4E, at least. In 3.5, you could sacrifice your turn to throw several dice of damage against an enemy (and you could even out-damage fighters, rogues and the like - it's a possibility) or you could just cast a spell and finish the battle altogether bypassing HP. That's the first levels, later on, you just snap your fingers and stuff happens, while fighters get +5 to attack and the ability to hit slightly differently or some shit.

 

[sXeth]

I absolutely disagree with your assessment of magic in Skyrim. Conjuration (get 100, make two Dremora Lords, and you're chillin) + Alteration (for armor purposes, the perks in this tree also shield you from magic) + Destruction (when you need to, but with 100 Conjuration you almost never need to) + Restoration (when shit gets worrisome). Illusion is kinda useless unless you already are somewhat decent in sneak. But yeah, I had a real easy time with those four trees combined (on Expert, then Master difficulty).

This argument kind of falls apart at "Get 100". And do what for the preceding 20-30 levels? Run like hell and hope your invincible Henchperson handles it? Or stand around soul-trapping a mudcrab corpse for an hour. Neithers particularly interesting play. The Wolf sucks, the Flame atronach won't keep mobs off you at all. Frost is decent, but overwhelmed in numbers, and torn apart instantly by dragons and enemy mages. Storm again usually darts away and leaves you completely exposed.

This is essentially Skyrim's magic problem in a nutshell. 100 Conjuration (or 100 Illusion when you get the "Affect everything" perk), is a god-mode. All the stuff leading up to it is usually well outpaced or inefficient vs the enemy numbers. Destruction doesn't even get the high end payoff and requires yet another 100 in Enchanting to really even resemble end-game useful..

 

[Smeggs]

Played a mage way back when I still played the MMO Fly For Fun. He was much easier to use than my original warrior character. He hit hard and fast with his spells, the only downside being that I had to keep a lot of MP potions in hotbar to keep my mana up. However, with how much damage I could deal by quickspamming my spells, I could take on enemies quite a great few levels higher than me solo. I have to be within a few levels as a warrior, because they have to be in close.

Mages are usually always glass cannons.

In Skyrim, Magic can pretty much take care of any other aspect of combat as well. Need close range? Summon a magic Daedric Sword. Want long range without wasting more mana every time you whip a fireball? Summon a Daedric Bow. Summon monsters who can do shit for you, throw fireballs, freeze bitches, etc.

I had more fun as a mage in Skyrim than any other class simply because a mage has more options than "Stab people" or "Shoot with arrow."

 

[Asmundr]

Player a Mage can be fun depending on the magic systems and how implemented. I usually try out magical characters out first due to the creativity I can have. Thief or Rouge types usually follow again due to the creativity I find them inherently possessing.

Magic when done right have provide huge opportunities for fun while retaining a good measure of difficulty. For example when I was playing Skyrim (PC so mods galore xD) I was a Vampire Lord Mage that had high Illusion, Alteration, Alchemy, and Speech. When I was given the mission to wipe out the Dawnguard I planed it out to march up to there stronghold and fight my way inside...

...then I got past the front door and noticed that they were all in the same room. An overcharged Muffle spell followed by Invisibility let me get close. I overcharged a Frenzy spell and then downed a Invisibility potion; watching the fun happen before my eyes. I didn't have to kill the Dawnguard, I got the Dawnguard to kill themselves. Rinsing and repeating a few times till all that was left was a lady, a sole survivor and probably broken by now after killing her companions.

A quick bite to her neck ended the night with a sweet drink after interesting entertainment. I think it was my first time entering "evil" territory for the first time lol.

Dragon Age, Dragon Age 2, Guild Wars 2, NWN/NWN2, D&D (obviously), and even the Jedi(Consular) and Sith(Sorcerer) in SWTOR have fun systems. Again, my first character in most RPG's is going to be some sort of mage or their equivalent. So I am fairly biased towards magic characters

Overall the old trope about Linear Warriors and Quadratic Wizards [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards] applies to most mages in games and is one of the reasons why I love a well implemented magic system.

 

[DoPo]

Overall the old trope about Linear Warriors and Quadratic Wizards [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards] applies to most mages in games and is one of the reasons why I love a well implemented magic system.

Out of curiosity, and because I don't think it's clear - would well implemented magic be conforming to the trope or avoiding it?

 

[LostCrusader]

I pick the mage class in every game that I can, but usually not a pure mage. I prefer being more of a battle mage that can do something other than cry when opponents get near me. The only game I have played where I didn't like being a mage was Dragon Age 2. This was due to almost every fight being an ambush where multiple waves of enemies spawn in a circle around us, and it made me quit that game pretty quickly.

Magic when done right have provide huge opportunities for fun while retaining a good measure of difficulty. For example when I was playing Skyrim (PC so mods galore xD) I was a Vampire Lord Mage that had high Illusion, Alteration, Alchemy, and Speech. When I was given the mission to wipe out the Dawnguard I planed it out to march up to there stronghold and fight my way inside...

...then I got past the front door and noticed that they were all in the same room. An overcharged Muffle spell followed by Invisibility let me get close. I overcharged a Frenzy spell and then downed a Invisibility potion; watching the fun happen before my eyes. I didn't have to kill the Dawnguard, I got the Dawnguard to kill themselves. Rinsing and repeating a few times till all that was left was a lady, a sole survivor and probably broken by now after killing her companions.

A quick bite to her neck ended the night with a sweet drink after interesting entertainment. I think it was my first time entering "evil" territory for the first time lol.

I played the elder scrolls similarly, usually sneaking into large rooms, summoning deadra, and enjoying the show. Now if they would just give me back my Deadroths in Skyrim, I could enjoy watching my demon crocodiles tearing them to pieces again.

 

[Asmundr]

Overall the old trope about Linear Warriors and Quadratic Wizards [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards] applies to most mages in games and is one of the reasons why I love a well implemented magic system.

Out of curiosity, and because I don't think it's clear - would well implemented magic be conforming to the trope or avoiding it?

Personally I believe it to a little of both. A "well implemented magic system" like I said above allows for a magical character to have not just a wide variety of options at hand but also enough penalties that force strategic thinking. Poorly implemented systems either give too much power to a mage rendering the class broken or too many penalties making magic inefficient at best.

A Warrior Class usually only offers different ways to stab, bludgeon, or cut with the bulk of variety in your approach, combat style, and load-out. All of this also depends on what the games mechanics allow you to do as well.

A Rouge or Thief Class grants greater means of play due to to their stealth aspect. Providing many opportunities by dealing high damage, dps, or controlling enemies, to name a few. In the end though your still dealing damage with pointy things of various types.

A Mage or Wizard Class offers the most flexibility (depending on the game) because of the varity of spells they have access to. Some games limit their quadratic-ness by only letting the mage specialize in one area of magic such as the elements or healing. Forms of balance usually seen are making a mage physically weaker, long cast times, few spells, or high mana consumption and friendly fire from AoE attacks.

A poorly implemented system piles on limitations which, again, render magic inefficient even if the player plans strategically. For example a poor magic system would burden a player with a small spell list, long cast time, and poor environment where no position can be taken minimize this. A good system would balance, say, long casting time and friendly fire from AoE with a wide spell selection and effects. Or on the other side of things, grants the player too much power making magic the solution to everything. Why bother fighting everything or sneaking around when I can simply wave my hands and burn everything for little to no cost or danger, right?

Dragon Age 2 had a good system where magic can be used to set up enemies for devastating melee attacks. Such as Freezing an opponent to have them be shattered by your warrior next strike.

D&D also has a good system due to the inventiveness a player can have with magic (though usually at the DM's discretion). When I first played D&D I set up my Sorcerer to specialize in Divination and was laughed by my more veteran companions for it being a "stupid idea". This all ended though when we got to a dungeon and my divining spells allowed me to not only find the McGuffin's we were looking for but also make an accurate map (as my Div. Sorc. also took Knowledge's in Arch./Engineering, Dungeonering, and many others along with Cartography as both a Knowledge and Profession. things I was also laughed at for). The DM hated me as I could see most threats coming and plan accordingly and my fellow players hated me because they needed me for info on loot, locations, and the aforementioned threats. One wise crack and I would simply "forget" that the room they were entering was filled with a deadly dragon or explosive gas.

They learned quickly not to make fun of the Diviner.

But, overall, a good magic system is not one that gives he player many all-powerful spells but the ability to be inventive decently powered ones.

Edit: Sorry for the wall of text folks.
Edit-Edit: I just noticed that my badges give me away as a big time magic buff lol

 

[VoidWanderer]

Oh, man. I thought this was going to be about Arcane spellcasters in table-top RPGs.

Anyways, I generally play the Mage on my second playthrough of a fantasy RPG. Once I get used to the combat, than I decide to 'tackle' being the Mage.

I do find their strengths to seriously overcome their weaknesses, but I find them very... bland.

The only recent fantasy RPG where I enjoy playing a spellslinger is Kingdoms of Amalur, because when you are in charge of their magic faction, the world actually acknowledges it... Unlike Skyrim...