Plot hole(s) in game(s) that are still unanswered.

[Thr33X]

Saint's Row- and pretty much whatever the hell happened to Dex between Ultor Exposed and SR:TT.

Can you elaborate? Ultor Exposed didn't make it onto PC so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

First, to correct myself, it wasn't the Ultor Exposed DLC, it was Corporate Warfare.

At the end of the DLC, Dex's manages to escape from The Boss' clutches, to which he/she vows to find him and kill him wherever he may be. The cliffhangar was never followed up on though, as Dex was never spoken about in SR:TT and only in a joke on SR4 during the 1950's simulation. Canonically, nobody knows what happens to Dex,

Spoiler

though you'd imagine wherever he was hiding he's obviously dead along with the rest of the planet after Zinyak blew it up.

However, according the Saint Row Wiki, the plan was for you to kill Dex in the cancelled "Money Shot" game as an Ultor assassin named Cypher. Since that never actually happened though, it remains a mystery.

 

[hazabaza1]

Where are the weight divisions in Punch Out? there is no way someone thought that those were fair fights.

On a more serious note, who was the Mysterious man in the fog in Persona 4? I think it's supposed to be

Spoiler

Adachi

but.. I dunno, it doesn't mesh well with his motivation I think. But I also can't think of anyone else who could fit the role.

Pretty sure it was

Spoiler

Izinami. It was only a male because that seems to be the default human form, specifying a female raises suspicion on who could be behind everything.

 

[FrozenLaughs]

Honestly I like Indoctrination Theory, but with that extended ending DLC they cut out all possibilities of it.

Good. It was a shoestring theory in the first place. It was your typical conspiracy theory, except in this case it was actually about a work of fiction.

It was also a testament to how shit the narrative was. Fans had to actively construct a new one to try and pretend it was a decent story,.

You mean like how people have constructed the story to Dark/Demon Souls? I've been told repeatedly on here players have had to craft the majority of the story and timeline from item descriptions and npc dialogue. Then I'm told it's a "deep and intricate story"... Then why am I 75% of the way thru Demon Souls with absolutely fuck-all zero knowledge of whats going on at all?

 

[Silvanus]

Hang on, hang on.

Do they actually say there are infinite universes, one for every possibility, in Bioshock Infinite? I don't remember that. I thought there were quite a few, created at pivotal moments, but thematically linked to eachother ("there's always a lighthouse") and far from one for every possibility.


Actually, that line, "there's always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city", explains it-- some things are constants. Yeah, it's a little Doctor Whoish, but it's not a plothole if they don't actually say there are universes for every possibility.

 

[Robot Number V]

1. Didn't we do this thread like, a few days ago?

2. I'm not sure why you put the "s"'s(?) in parentheses, as the title makes no sense without them.

3. Uh....Most of the ending of Bioshock Infinite. Love the game, but the ending just doesn't add up. I won't bother saying anything else, you either know what I'm talking about, or you haven't played it.

 

[Little Gray]

You mean like how people have constructed the story to Dark/Demon Souls? I've been told repeatedly on here players have had to craft the majority of the story and timeline from item descriptions and npc dialogue. Then I'm told it's a "deep and intricate story"... Then why am I 75% of the way thru Demon Souls with absolutely fuck-all zero knowledge of whats going on at all?

Actually the maiden in black and the monumental explain the entire story to you very early on in the game. All of the lore and background about how it happened is explained through items and other npc's dialogue.

 

[FrozenLaughs]

Actually the maiden in black and the monumental explain the entire story to you very early on in the game. All of the lore and background about how it happened is explained through items and other npc's dialogue.

Who is the maiden in black and the monumental? Where is it explained who they are? Where is it explained why I woke up a dead body? All I got was a single guy telling me if I wanted out of wherever the hell I was, to go ring a bell. Nothing explains why I'm killing all these demons and black knights along the way.

In what world is extrapolating storyline from fucking item descriptions considered good storyline?

 

[Something Amyss]

You mean like how people have constructed the story to Dark/Demon Souls? I've been told repeatedly on here players have had to craft the majority of the story and timeline from item descriptions and npc dialogue. Then I'm told it's a "deep and intricate story"... Then why am I 75% of the way thru Demon Souls with absolutely fuck-all zero knowledge of whats going on at all?

I don't honestly know what to say about Dark/Demon's Souls, because people don't seem to agree. Most people seem to agree that the first 90% of ME3 is good, even if they argue about the end. The IT fans rely on issues with the narrative to construct a new narrative, but those issues don't go away if the IT isn't something you buy. Fans tend to handwave.

The Souls franchise? Well, I've had people tell me the story is crap, the story is awesome, the story is virtually non-existent, and probably some other option I'm not remembering. I've seen it justified because of combat/gameplay/difficulty, and that's fine. But at the end of the day, while Mass Effect Fans seems to be able to agree on why they like/hate 3, but there seems to be little agreement on the Souls titles.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

You mean like how people have constructed the story to Dark/Demon Souls? I've been told repeatedly on here players have had to craft the majority of the story and timeline from item descriptions and npc dialogue. Then I'm told it's a "deep and intricate story"... Then why am I 75% of the way thru Demon Souls with absolutely fuck-all zero knowledge of whats going on at all?

I don't honestly know what to say about Dark/Demon's Souls, because people don't seem to agree. Most people seem to agree that the first 90% of ME3 is good, even if they argue about the end. The IT fans rely on issues with the narrative to construct a new narrative, but those issues don't go away if the IT isn't something you buy. Fans tend to handwave.

The Souls franchise? Well, I've had people tell me the story is crap, the story is awesome, the story is virtually non-existent, and probably some other option I'm not remembering. I've seen it justified because of combat/gameplay/difficulty, and that's fine. But at the end of the day, while Mass Effect Fans seems to be able to agree on why they like/hate 3, but there seems to be little agreement on the Souls titles.

With the Demon's Souls/Dark Souls story lines the amount of story you get is directly proportional to how much effort you put into figuring it out. There's a lot of back-story and a lot of lore, but almost none of it is told to you directly. The game's don't spoon feed you story, you have to actively go seek it out. The people who say that the story is crap and nonexistent are the people who never took the effort to look for the story. And to be fair to those people, it really is very difficult to extrapolate the details necessary from the game world to create a cohesive story about what's going on and why. The story is a big puzzle and every conversation with an NPC, every description of an item, every explored location, is a small piece that makes up the whole.

I personally don't have the amount of time to invest in figuring out the entire plot for myself, but reading through internet threads and wikis for the games, and finding out how people have come up with their various theories and the evidence that backs them up is absolutely fascinating to me.

The entire plot of the Souls games is implied, and can only be understood and explained through extreme over-thinking and over-analysis.

 

[Trunkage]

As to Dark Souls, someone told me that it was purposely flooded to stop darkwraiths. I didn't find any NPC on that
Most of the occurrences were explained, but I did look more into the daughter of Izalith, especially ceaseless discharge as I hadn't realised that they were connected. Nor did I realise that the dlc was set in the past.

 

[XMark]

Regarding Bioshock Infinite and the DLC:

Spoiler

Regular Bioshock Infinite's ending has Elizabeth telling Booker that she has seen the story play out through countless realities, and that it's always the same (there's always a lighthouse, etc). And when she drowned Booker, she completely wiped all of the alternate realities, and every Comstock, out of existence.

I think the Burial at Sea DLC was just an exploration of one of those many alternate realities.

 

[klaynexas3]

People need to stop confusing poor explanations and lack of information for plot holes. Plot holes are lore contradictions and inconsistencies, not something that simply isn't made clear or doesn't fit in with how we expect things to happen.

Spoiler: You mean like the plot-hole big enough to drive a semi truck through with regards to the ending of Bioshock Infinite?

I'm referring to the fact that the plan to "kill" Comstock simply wouldn't work...purely because of the concept of infinite realities. If every choice spawns a universe in which the opposite (or at least some other) choice is made, then what about the choice to drown Booker?

Oh and spare me the tired "Well that choice was made out in the Limbo area with all the lighthouses so it doesn't count! No universes are spawned from there!" excuse. Because even assuming that's true (despite the fact that it's never established), Booker didn't decide to drown himself outside in the lighthouse area, he decided that he was going to go kill Comstock. The fact that he IS Comstock and therefor killing Comstock would require killing himself at the baptism doesn't occur to him until just before the lynch-gang of Elizabeth's push him under the water. Right there, he makes the choice to commit suicide by allowing the Elizabeths to drown him. As such, if drowning him could indeed kill of Comstock, then universes can officially be manipulated, created, destroyed, etc at that point. Therefor a new universe was spawned in which Booker said "FUCK THAT!" and fought away from the Elizabeths, refusing the sacrifice.

Furthermore, doesn't the very existence of Burial At Sea kinda prove that the plan to kill Comstock failed? For full disclosure, I'll confess that I haven't played to the end of this "first episode" yet, but the fact that TransUniversal Elizabeth still exists kinda implies that Comstock himself still exists, considering that if they had successfully wiped out every possible Comstock in existence, then there wouldn't have ever been a super-powered Elizabeth since there never would have been a Comstock to pull her through a wall and nip her pinkie off.

Not to mention the fact that

Spoiler

if Elizabeth kills Booker, the versions of Booker that could open the tears would not exist, meaning she couldn't kill booker, meaning she does exist, meaning she kills Booker, meaning she never existed, etc etc.

If a time paradox is not a plot hole, I don't know what is.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

Let's get down to business!

OK then! Bioshock. Why did Jack Ryan not tell you earlier that you are his son, who Atlas really was, and that you were being manipulated by Frank Fontaine? Why did other people continue to refer to Frank Fontaine as Atlas even though that was seemingly just a cover for you not to get suspicious?

Easy. No one knew any of that at the beginning of the game.

When you arrive in Rapture, the only person who knows who you are is Atlas/Fontaine. Andrew Ryan doesn't discover who you are until you are almost upon him, by which time he has deduced that you must be his son based on how easily you made it through his security systems; the security that was keyed specifically to Ryan's DNA and thus made surmountable by someone of his genetic lineage.

Similarly, the only person who knows that Atlas IS Fontaine is Fontaine himself. He doesn't reveal himself until Andrew Ryan is dead. He had faked his own death months previously to get Ryan off his trail, then used the Atlas persona to rally the downtrodden and the poor to fight Ryan's control. Atlas only tells you he is Fontaine because he thinks he has just won and the game is over.

This is all very easy to understand if you bother to pick up any of the audio recordings around Rapture.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

Let's get down to business!

OK then! Bioshock. Why did Jack Ryan not tell you earlier that you are his son, who Atlas really was, and that you were being manipulated by Frank Fontaine? Why did other people continue to refer to Frank Fontaine as Atlas even though that was seemingly just a cover for you not to get suspicious?

Easy. No one knew any of that at the beginning of the game.

When you arrive in Rapture, the only person who knows who you are is Atlas/Fontaine. Andrew Ryan doesn't discover who you are until you are almost upon him, by which time he has deduced that you must be his son based on how easily you made it through his security systems; the security that was keyed specifically to Ryan's DNA and thus made surmountable by someone of his genetic lineage.

But Ryan communicates with you very early on into the game.

He does indeed, but only to try to figure out who you are. He knows of your presence, but only as an unidentified disturbance who has come from outside of Rapture. The first time he contacts you, he specifically asks where you came from. "Are you a Russian assassin or a CIA spook?" are the words he uses, I believe. All he knows is that someone new has arrived, someone who is likely a threat to him.

You may notice that several of his personal communiques with you are Ryan wondering aloud at your identity and circumstances. It takes him most of the game to piece together who you really are. He wonders if you came to Rapture by chance. He wonders who might be pulling your strings. Around the time you reach Haphaestus and start building that bomb to turn off Rapture, he is getting closer to the truth. He asks you if you can really trust your memories; he suspects that you are one of Suchong's ADAM experiments unleashed on him. He only knows the truth for sure when he uses "Would you kindly?" on you.

 

[BaronVH]

Why doesn't Pac Man ever get full?