Pokemon Sun and Moon Aren't good Pokemon games.

[kilenem]

I don't want to sound like a old man who hates change because I can look at Pokemon Red and Blue and tell that they haven't aged that well. Even though other games like Super Mario Land 2, and Link's Awakening have.

From a technical standpoint its frustrating playing this game because I have the New 3DS and if there are more then 2 pokemon in a battle, you lose frames Its apparently worse with the Regular 3DS. My friend pointed out that this happens in X and Y, which is true but it isn't as bad. You also fight multiple pokemon in sun and moon more often. The 3DS might just be old hardware and the Rumored Pokemon Stars for Switch should run smother on the Nintendo Switch.

There are problems from a game design aspect. Everything is extremely slow in this game or time consuming. Its like 2 hours before you can leave on your Journey. Since they removed HM'S, most of the time they use people to Block you path and you get a small cut scene explaining why you can't advance. The game is extremely linear, there is very little to go back track and explore. You can only fish at certain spots in the water unlike past Pokemon.games where you could fish everywhere. As a heads up, save before you fight as the Champion of the pokemon league. This is because after you become the champ, it doesn't save and you have to fight a legendary pokemon, that is a one time encounter.

Most pokemon games are functional, encourage exploration and freedom unlike sun and Moon.

 

[Cold Shiny]

Just to reply to your critiques of the games, I think removing HM's was the single greatest design decision Game Freak has EVER made.

I've also been told by my brother (he is very far into the endgame content) that there is another opportunity to catch that legendary after the Elite Four, even if you just knock it out.

 

[Saelune]

Oh I despise Sun and Moon. I usually complain about bad Pokemon designs and act like its the end of Pokemon, but I usually know the actual gameplay will be better. But this one the Pokemon, mainly the Alola form ones are terrible, AND the game is a chore to play. Constantly railroading you, pretending to give you choice then saying psyche, and alot of things just dont make sense, like a Lapras having a chair on it...Lapras were made to be ridden dang it.

I used to say Gen 4 was the worst, but gameplay wise it was honestly better than Gen 3, but 7 is just garbage in most areas. It has a couple neat updates, but also removed a bunch of ones for no good reason too. PokeNav was a good thing.

 

[DeadProxy]

I don't like how much time the game more or less forces you to waste. Poke-refresh is, in my mind, a massive time sink, but it has functions so it gets a pass. Seeing the pokedex every single time I catch a pokemon, with no way to speed it up or skip entirely, with Rotoms stupid commentary that I ignored 99% of the time, does not get a pass because it takes so long. The slowdown in battles also adds to that wasted time, not to mention the wait time between turns...and holy shit you stupid wild pokemon, stop calling for help every other turn, every other battle. I now it's for grinding various things, but to people who don't care about EVS, perfect nature's, or putting in literal hours to get a shiny, it's so damn annoying.

I had more gripes but I forgot the others while writing this, but I did have a good time with the game overall. The story is kinda meh though for the most part' would have liked more Ultra beast stuff, but that's probably just me wanting more actual new stuff in the series after so many years.

 

[Silvanus]

alot of things just dont make sense, like a Lapras having a chair on it...Lapras were made to be ridden dang it.

Made to be ridden? I don't think even the designers imagined creatures that existed solely for some human's convenience; they're supposed to have animal-like lives outside of human use. Humans put saddles on horses because although horses can be ridden without them, it's far more comfortable, convenient, and effective to ride them with one.

 

[Post Tenebrae Morte]

I disagree, quite a lot. Ever since Gen 5 and even back in Gen 2 with the Crystal edition (in which each third version would follow suite and add story and such), the games have become progressively more story-based. But despite this (though I love it, certainly gives the games a more impactful nature), they have never lost the essence of exploration, catching, and battling. In Gen 7, they've gotten rid of one of the most derided things in the series, the hidden machines, and replaced them with something far more fun and intuitive (the ride Pokemon). in fact, it directly contradicts your complaint of being unable to go back and explore, what with Charizard serving as the fly equivalent and is acquired relatively quickly on the second island. The story is there to provide motivation and keep players moving ahead, but it never forces you to not explore. As in all games, certain areas will be blocked off until you can come back later with the proper item or skill. And the game series in general has had its blocking npcs, so it's not anything new. Sure, you can fish wherever you'd like, but by relegating them to certain spots it becomes easier to tell where you'd actually like to fish, especially since they got rid of the tiresome multi-rod mechanic from the past.

A lot of this new generation is getting rid of the archaic while still appreciating the good that comes from the classic mechanics. Gamefreak hit it out of the park with this. And for the guy saying that this gen is worse than 4: go back and play gen 4. They were the dark point of the series, there was a reason others like myself stopped at gen 3 and didn't get back in till gen 6. The battling system has been refined even more and it is far more balanced than what we had back then, giving battles that are not just invigorating when it's two people against each other, but even when your simply fighting an npc.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

And for the guy saying that this gen is worse than 4

Yikes, Gen 4 is what I put the highest amount of hours into. Though I don't remember a number of things in that one... I'm curious about what made ya dislike it? Maybe I don't remember it being pure trash, I was in my mid-teens around that time

 

[Aerosteam]

I'd rather have someone straight up tell me I can't go down a path instead of being blocked by a fucking tree or rock.

Fuck HM's.

 

[CritialGaming]

For the most part every new Pokemon game feels like it is always made for new players, not returning players. Every new Pokemon game seems to streamline the explanation of things, like mechanics, and story. And for the most part returning players have been able to rush past these points in the game and get through the adventure with no problems.

But in Sun and Moon the game is so slowly paced, and so restricting that I think most veteran people are growing frustrated with it. Where ever they have made a quality of life improvement, like the HM's, they do something else that completely fucks your experience like a map marker and linear progression. They've even started dumbbing down the combat to the point where the game tells you what is super effective during battle. It plays the game for you and I don't understand that.

Pokemon had been huge for 20 years. What Game Freak needs to do it make a Pokemon game that is more of a love letter to Pokemon fans, and not a rehash of the same fucking formula for the 100th time.

I absolutely could not bring myself to proceed beyond the third island in the game. I just can't be bothered with it. Maybe if the game still wasn't holding my goddamn hand I might be more willing to enjoy it. I'm a grown ass man, let my hand go!

 

[Aerosteam]

They've even started dumbbing down the combat to the point where the game tells you what is super effective during battle. It plays the game for you and I don't understand that.

You and me both know the type chart by heart, so how does this affect us? The game tells you what's effective, so what? It helps new players/players who don't have very good memory/players who don't understand the type chart. It does not in the slightest change the experience of us veterans. (Plus, you have to knockout the Pokemon before the game tells you what's effective against it - so even new players aren't given a huge advantage).

Sorry if I'm being picky or singling you out, but the game telling you type effectiveness in battle is one of the changes I think is objectively an improvement and I'm just not sure how it could be "dumbing down" the game.

 

[CritialGaming]

They've even started dumbbing down the combat to the point where the game tells you what is super effective during battle. It plays the game for you and I don't understand that.

You and me both know the type chart by heart, so how does this affect us? The game tells you what's effective, so what? It helps new players/players who don't have very good memory/players who don't understand the type chart. It does not in the slightest change the experience of us veterans. (Plus, you have to knockout the Pokemon before the game tells you what's effective against it - so even new players aren't given a huge advantage).

Sorry if I'm being picky or singling you out, but the game telling you type effectiveness in battle is one of the changes I think is objectively an improvement and I'm just not sure how it could be "dumbing down" the game.

It affects us because there are brand new pokemon in the game. And I don't know their typing. But after beating the pokemon once, I instantly know everything I can use against it to murder it. So it does affect us. Part of the fun of Pokemon was having to learn what all the new pokemon could do. Figuring out and remembering what was effective and what wasn't. That's gone now. Just because you knock out a pokemon once doesn't mean you did it because you knew the weaknesses. Maybe you beat that horse pokemon with a tackle, but the next time to see it you suddenly now know it's typing match ups.

I'd be a little more fine with the system if it was adaptive. For example, say you hit a pokemon with a grass move, and it isn't very effective. Then the game forever tells you that grass moves suck against that pokemon. So as you expirament and try to figure out how to battle against a pokemon, you gain more knowledge against it. Normal moves are just basically effective. Oh water was super effective. It would be a easier to remember way of learn than how it used to be when you played your first pokemon game.

I remember hitting a pokemon and being surprised when a move was super effective, I then wrote down "okay use this move against that guy" etc. Instead of the system just outright telling you, it should just tell you as you learn. Earn the knowledge, don't just get it for free.

 

[Aerosteam]

They've even started dumbbing down the combat to the point where the game tells you what is super effective during battle. It plays the game for you and I don't understand that.

You and me both know the type chart by heart, so how does this affect us? The game tells you what's effective, so what? It helps new players/players who don't have very good memory/players who don't understand the type chart. It does not in the slightest change the experience of us veterans. (Plus, you have to knockout the Pokemon before the game tells you what's effective against it - so even new players aren't given a huge advantage).

Sorry if I'm being picky or singling you out, but the game telling you type effectiveness in battle is one of the changes I think is objectively an improvement and I'm just not sure how it could be "dumbing down" the game.

It affects us because there are brand new pokemon in the game. And I don't know their typing. But after beating the pokemon once, I instantly know everything I can use against it to murder it. So it does affect us. Part of the fun of Pokemon was having to learn what all the new pokemon could do. Figuring out and remembering what was effective and what wasn't. That's gone now. Just because you knock out a pokemon once doesn't mean you did it because you knew the weaknesses. Maybe you beat that horse pokemon with a tackle, but the next time to see it you suddenly now know it's typing match ups.

I'd be a little more fine with the system if it was adaptive. For example, say you hit a pokemon with a grass move, and it isn't very effective. Then the game forever tells you that grass moves suck against that pokemon. So as you expirament and try to figure out how to battle against a pokemon, you gain more knowledge against it. Normal moves are just basically effective. Oh water was super effective. It would be a easier to remember way of learn than how it used to be when you played your first pokemon game.

I remember hitting a pokemon and being surprised when a move was super effective, I then wrote down "okay use this move against that guy" etc. Instead of the system just outright telling you, it should just tell you as you learn. Earn the knowledge, don't just get it for free.

Right, I get you. For me slowly learning the types of new pokemon depending on what's strong/weak against it hasn't ever really been I thing, since getting into the series (Gen 4) I relied on serebii.net and such to tell me the types of pokemon then eventually I knew them offhand. When playing Moon I'm in the mentality of "well I'm going to learn this pokemon's type eventually, the game might as well tell me it now". So the inclusion of type effectiveness in battles affects veterans, but not all it seems. (And to be fair, I was surprised Crabrawler wasn't a water-type.)

The point you made in you second paragraph, yep, I agree 100%, that would be the perfect in-between. The Shin Megami Tensei series does this, it's great.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I don't really have an issue with the game telling me what is super effective or not because of the weird type combinations that exist in current gens. I've played every gen since one but these more complex type combos are throwing me off and I can't be arsed to remember them.

I also enjoy the fact that HMs are gone, though I do wish they wouldn't use NPC blocking. There was very little reason why we needed to do the three island 2 trails in a specific order. GF needs to not assume that the player base (include the children) is stupid and just throw in a suggestion somewhere that "hey it might be a good idea to do the water before the fire" rather than forcing us to by cordoning off entire routes. Damn greedy kid on his stoutland can move out of my damn way.

 

[Weaver]

I like the game, I just wish it respected my time a little more.

The long unskippable bush russling -> pokemon reveal -> throw a pokeball animation genuinely adds up to hours of wasted time alone.

Placing my pokemon in the pokecenter healing one at a time, playing the little song, telling me they're healed.

Two dialog popups every item you pick up.

The ranch being only able to take pokemon from your inventory not from a box so you have to go to the PC, transfer 2 pokemon, give them to the girl ONE AT A TIME, then go back to the box, then pick up the 2 pokemon you just put in.

Speaking of the box, the box system also needs updating. I realize this generation's box is probably the best it's been, but it's still not good enough IMO. Why can't I multi-select or drag a selection square around pokemon with the stylus? Why can I still not do something like sort by grass pokemon?

 

[EternallyBored]

They've even started dumbbing down the combat to the point where the game tells you what is super effective during battle. It plays the game for you and I don't understand that.

You and me both know the type chart by heart, so how does this affect us? The game tells you what's effective, so what? It helps new players/players who don't have very good memory/players who don't understand the type chart. It does not in the slightest change the experience of us veterans. (Plus, you have to knockout the Pokemon before the game tells you what's effective against it - so even new players aren't given a huge advantage).

Sorry if I'm being picky or singling you out, but the game telling you type effectiveness in battle is one of the changes I think is objectively an improvement and I'm just not sure how it could be "dumbing down" the game.

It affects us because there are brand new pokemon in the game. And I don't know their typing. But after beating the pokemon once, I instantly know everything I can use against it to murder it. So it does affect us. Part of the fun of Pokemon was having to learn what all the new pokemon could do. Figuring out and remembering what was effective and what wasn't. That's gone now. Just because you knock out a pokemon once doesn't mean you did it because you knew the weaknesses. Maybe you beat that horse pokemon with a tackle, but the next time to see it you suddenly now know it's typing match ups.

I'd be a little more fine with the system if it was adaptive. For example, say you hit a pokemon with a grass move, and it isn't very effective. Then the game forever tells you that grass moves suck against that pokemon. So as you expirament and try to figure out how to battle against a pokemon, you gain more knowledge against it. Normal moves are just basically effective. Oh water was super effective. It would be a easier to remember way of learn than how it used to be when you played your first pokemon game.

I remember hitting a pokemon and being surprised when a move was super effective, I then wrote down "okay use this move against that guy" etc. Instead of the system just outright telling you, it should just tell you as you learn. Earn the knowledge, don't just get it for free.

That was fine back when it was basic types and most pokemon were single types all you had to remember was simple stuff like grass being good against water, psychic being good against fighting, etc., but now doing it by hand or memory would be cumbersome, there are so many type interactions and dual types that the chart lists alone are massive. Something needed to be done as the old system was just getting too complicated for players without looking up charts on the internet, it was bogging down competitive play and wasn't really adding much to the low level play at this point either.

As for the idea of revealing weaknesses and tracking them as you do attacks, it could work, but it seems like it would be mostly useless, for wild pokemon type matchups are of little consequence, with the way you level, wild pokemon are never going to be a threat if you mismatch type or use the wrong attack, mostly you are concerned about status effects and lowering health even if it requires a bad type match up in order to catch, and if you are going through an area or leveling then type matchups only matter if you are trying to one shott everything.

For basic trainers, it would only really help with repeats like team skull grunts where you fight the same types over and over again, beyond that it would mostly just be a useless feature as you only fight the rarer trainer pokemon once or twice in the whole story, and often don't even encounter their pokemon in the wild. For end game stuff, you encounter those pokemon only once like with most of the elite 4, so such a system is pointless.

For competitive play, it would either be a worthless grind to just spam different attack types against pokemon you havent seen before to fill out your chart until you didn't have to deal with that bullshit again, or as a competitive player you've already got the chart mostly memorized, or have a chart in front of you so it just delays play as someone looks up the opponents type if they don't recognize it off the bat.

I dunno, to me at least, what you are proposing just seems like an unnecessary waste of time that would only really be effective for pokemon you encounter a lot, so mostly low tier evolutions that only matter at the beginning of the game, for anything later, you are only going to fight a lot of pokemon a couple times, or you are just wasting time at the competitive level grinding out a useful index of whats effective and whats not.

 

[Saelune]

alot of things just dont make sense, like a Lapras having a chair on it...Lapras were made to be ridden dang it.

Made to be ridden? I don't think even the designers imagined creatures that existed solely for some human's convenience; they're supposed to have animal-like lives outside of human use. Humans put saddles on horses because although horses can be ridden without them, it's far more comfortable, convenient, and effective to ride them with one.

and alot of things just dont make sense, like a Lapras having a chair on it...Lapras were made to be ridden dang it.

Yeah, I agree with Silvanus, this makes not sense.

It's a wild animal. Arceus didnt create it for humans to ride it. It evolved a shell for proection.

Most of it's pokedex entries explicitly talk about ferrying people across water and it is called the "Transport" pokemon.

 

[Igor-Rowan]

... like a Lapras having a chair on it...Lapras were made to be ridden dang it.

I... honestly don't get this criticism. Aren't you calling Lapras through a pager-like thing? It would imply that it's an specific Lapras that comes and was trained for this very purpose. Considering it's something everybody in that world can use, the saddles and the safety gear would be a bit of a no-brainer. I think your complain is "why can't I call my own Lapras and ride it naturally like XY and ORAS?"

 

[Saelune]

... like a Lapras having a chair on it...Lapras were made to be ridden dang it.

I... honestly don't get this criticism. Aren't you calling Lapras through a pager-like thing? It would imply that it's an specific Lapras that comes and was trained for this very purpose. Considering it's something everybody in that world can use, the saddles and the safety gear would be a bit of a no-brainer. I think your complain is "why can't I call my own Lapras and ride it naturally like XY and ORAS?"

There are a million small nitpicks that add up to a hefty weight. The calling pokemon thing is dumb, and the added safety gear and stupid outfit only makes it dumber.