Pokemon World Championship Qualifiers Begin in May
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
http://projectpokemon.org/editing/pokesav/
can make "legit" pokemon.
can make "legit" pokemon.
Yes they can. The items aside, you can EV train a level 100 by having it battle a pokemon with the required EV's, depositing it and withdrawing it. It's slow, but works.randommaster said:
I really don't care for the Nintendo tourneys. The rules are usually a bit iffy, and I don't like 2v2.
I am REALLY unsure about allowing Ubers into the tournament. This will really stifle possible teams, since they are just so overpowering. Not much can take a Water Spout from a properly EVed Kyogre, or stop a Rayquaza if it gets a Swords Dance in. And their bans make NO sense. From what I understand, the following are banned:
Mew
Celebi
Jirachi
Deoxys (all forms)
Phione
Manaphy
Darkrai
Shaymin
Arceus
This list about falls into line with their normal lists. Deoxys is an easy ban (except maybe the speed form, MAYBE), Darkrai is completely broken in 2v2 so he's gone, and Arceus has too good of all around stats. However, the rest are hardly broken. It would be fine, given their usual rules, if they didn't turn around and allow:
Mewtwo
Lugia
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Can someone please explain the logic to me? These aren't like Manaphy or Deoxys-Speed where they are mildly overpowered in this environment. These are GAMEBREAKERS. They can steamroll most of the game. It doesn't take a genius to mow things down with a Mewtwo, or give Kyogre a Choice Scarf and instagib something with Water Spout. Team choices will be extremely limited since the tournament style doesn't really allow switches or sacrifices.
Nintendo, I am disappoint.
I am REALLY unsure about allowing Ubers into the tournament. This will really stifle possible teams, since they are just so overpowering. Not much can take a Water Spout from a properly EVed Kyogre, or stop a Rayquaza if it gets a Swords Dance in. And their bans make NO sense. From what I understand, the following are banned:
Mew
Celebi
Jirachi
Deoxys (all forms)
Phione
Manaphy
Darkrai
Shaymin
Arceus
This list about falls into line with their normal lists. Deoxys is an easy ban (except maybe the speed form, MAYBE), Darkrai is completely broken in 2v2 so he's gone, and Arceus has too good of all around stats. However, the rest are hardly broken. It would be fine, given their usual rules, if they didn't turn around and allow:
Mewtwo
Lugia
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Can someone please explain the logic to me? These aren't like Manaphy or Deoxys-Speed where they are mildly overpowered in this environment. These are GAMEBREAKERS. They can steamroll most of the game. It doesn't take a genius to mow things down with a Mewtwo, or give Kyogre a Choice Scarf and instagib something with Water Spout. Team choices will be extremely limited since the tournament style doesn't really allow switches or sacrifices.
Nintendo, I am disappoint.
<3Mister Benoit said:
You are the first person I've seen besides me who knows the site. This makes me happy and feel like the time spent there isn't wasted.
That trick doesn't work for level 100 Pokemon. It's also the whole reaon the Little Cup can even exist.night_chrono said:
And yes, you can hack the game, but doing anything that can actually give you something that random number manipulation can't would be cheating. People have already found out how to breed/hatch shiny and perfect Pokemon entirely within the game, so it's not like you really get anything out of it if you make sure that pokemon are legitimate.
The Pokemon that they banned are event Pokemon and are only obtainable from out-of-game events. The ban list isn't for power so muxh as making sure that people who missed various events won't complain. While celebi may not be that great, imagine losing to one when you haven't been able to get one yourself. You's be pretty mad and probably feel that the person who beat you had an unfair advantage.Comic Sans said:
As far as power level goes,
Because they don't want the bad publicity of turning away some ten-year-old kid who wanted to use his totally awesome Garchomp that he raised himself and beat all his friends with. If you were that kid, or jis parents for that matter, you'd be pissed.Mister Benoit said:
It unbalances things a bit, but they'd rather have a warped metagame than bad publicity, which is understandable given that The World Championship isn't as important to the success of the franchise as publicity. It's balls to deal with, but that's what they did.
I would love to join with my impressively trained team (I didn't EV train, maybe I should consider it), but I can't since I live in Lebanon. Darn national boundaries! I probably wouldn't have won though, but at least I could've gotten a shiny Eevee!
[sub]God, this place sucks...[/sub]
[sub]God, this place sucks...[/sub]
Heh. I didn't even think about that. Touche. I would hardly call having a Celebi an "unfair advantage" though, given you can use freaking Kyogre in this tourney. One of my favorite past times is explaining to casual players who think I'm some sort of Pokewhiz why Kyogre is one of the most broken Pokemon in the game, if not THE most. I guess it stops the kids from whining. A lot of it is Nintendo's fault for making so many Pokemon only obtainable for like a week or two, then you're shit out of luck.randommaster said:
I don't expect them to conform to the Smogon list. However, I maintain that including ubers in a competitive scene is ridiculous, and seems like a move to appeal to kids who raised their TOTALLY AWESOME MEWTWO. I don't deny that they can be worked around. I for one would be packing a Ludicolo on my team to stomp Kyogre and help counter other threats. But the power threshold they bring into the matches is so high that the amount of "safe" teams that can be brought to bear is low. I'm not involved in the 2v2 metagame so maybe my theorymon is totally off, but I've rarely seen balance when Ubers are set loose.
And yes, Shedinja would be hilarious against all the kids who would have teams like Dragonite, Mewtwo, Blastoise, and Venusaur or something. I'd be too paranoid, though, since as an avid user of Sandstream based teams I fear what a simple Tyranitar switch would do. I personally would love to try using a Self Destruct Choice Banded Snorlax with a Giratina and making kids cry.
When me and my buddy ran into that website about two years ago, it completely changed how we played Pokemon...Comic Sans said:
The introduction to EV Training, Move Breeding and IV breeding completely changed how we played and viewed the game.
Shoddy battle is pretty wicked.. Wonder how many Escapee's have used it =p
It's unsuitable for competitive play.
why? too much is down to luck. Critical hits, and attacks that only work 70% of the time skew the skills involved in putting a decent team together. the same game can be played twice, and a missed turn from paralysis one way completely changes it. That ain't right.
why? too much is down to luck. Critical hits, and attacks that only work 70% of the time skew the skills involved in putting a decent team together. the same game can be played twice, and a missed turn from paralysis one way completely changes it. That ain't right.
I used to be on Shoddy all the time. I was REALLY into that scene for a while, living on Shoddy and Smogon. I have Policy Review access on Smogon (Tleilax is me), but didn't use it that much since I was starting to get burned out about that time. I've been trying to get back into it again.Mister Benoit said:
What you say it true, to a point. However, does that make poker unsuitable for competitive play as well? After all, in poker you have zero control over what happens. In Pokemon, you do. While random luck can and will play a part in matches, making a good team that takes it into account is part of the game. Pokemon is all about prediction and numbers. You account for everything you can. Random crits are frustrating, but don't make it any less competitive than a guy drawing a royal flush and beating your straight makes poker less competitive.Baneat said:
You are totally wrong about the 70% chance to hit being luck, though. That's part of the decision you make when building a team. Go for the reliable hit, or go for the more powerful less accurate one? It's one of the things you take into account. Since often times it's the difference between one and two hit KOs, the choice can be pretty crucial.
You have an immense level of control in poker, they're not the same thing.Comic Sans said:
You're supposed to figure out if the guy really does have the killer hand that will take you down, or make him think you do and get him to duck out, leaving you the pot.
Pokemon, noone knows what's gonna happen. You can't ever know if it's going to crit. Thunder might miss, and it might hit. You can't control this, and if the other guy sticks his neck out and prays to the RNG gods while you go for a safe thunderbolt he's gonna win.
if you played it again, same moves and everything up to the thunder, he could miss and you win. Coin flips do not make conpetitive play.
What's shoddy? I used NetBattle..
You have control over what happens when you cards are revealed. You cannot pick the cards you have, the cards the opponent has, or what comes up on the flop. The only thing you control is what you do when you see what you have, which could be nothing or the best hand possible, it's all luck.Baneat said:
Pokemon is the same. You have your hand (your team), and you need to try and predict the other guy's moves (his hand), and the random events are like the flop. You might get something that helps you, they might get something, or it might go even and it comes down to skill. In fact, in Pokemon you have MORE control. You get to pick your hand. You know what tools you have available to you when you go in. The trick with both poker and Pokemon is realizing that there is a degree of luck involved and do your best to roll with it. It is luck, yes, but balanced by skill.
I maintain that Thunder missing is not a coin flip win/loss that makes it uncompetitive. It's a choice you make. Pokemon is all about numbers. Raw stats, EVs, IVs, damage spreads, accuracy, damage modifiers, etc. When you choose Thunder, Fire Blast, etc, you should be aware of what it entails, and whether it is worth it. The accuracy is clearly lower, so if you get into a clutch situation where you need to rely on it it's your own issue for choosing it, since it's the chance you took. It's a strategic choice, and adds options.
Shoddy Battle is similar to Netbattle. I never used Netbattle so I can't get into specifics, but from what I understand Netbattle has 2v2 which Shoddy doesn't (although Shoddy 2 will) and Shoddy is way less buggy.
I concede, you're correct, but I have never liked the idea of any random factor for a competition. It should be your skill (or your ability to assemble an effective team in this case) that decides it, without anything that is not capable of being manipulated through skill affecting your outcomes. That's why there are nocrits on competitive TF2 matches.
It's also why I think chess is the ultimate game for mental competition. There isn't a 70% chance your bishop will take the queen.
It's also why I think chess is the ultimate game for mental competition. There isn't a 70% chance your bishop will take the queen.
I'm going to butt in here for a bit.Baneat said:
Pokemon is like poker in that it is a game of imperfect information, but beyond that the skills needed for high-level play are different. Poker relies more on reading your opponent and masking your own knowledge, while pokemon relies more on planning and forethought. You don't get too far in poker without knowing what the odds are for various hands, though.
There is luck in pokemon, but that is taken into account when playing competitively. As was said previously, you can miss that clutch Thunder and lose the match, but that's the price you pay for not using a safer, but less powerful move. Things like paralysis do create more unreliability, which is why people seek to inflict those statuses on their opponent's pokemon. The chance of losing a turn is random, but speed is also halved, which is generally the more important part. It's like having 30% more money than your opponent in poker, they have to change how they play because getting the wrong set of cards hurts them much more than it hurts you. As far as criticals go, it's about the same as getting a straight or a flush in poker in that it's not necessarily going to win a match by itself, but it can shift momentum in your favor. There's only a 6.25% chance for a crit, though, so it doesn't come up that often and I've seen plaenty of competitive matches when none happen or when they do, it doesn't matter.
Overall, there is luck, but it plays less of a part in the higher levels of competition than most people think.
All mettagames tend to have some "best team/pokemon" that you have to plan for since each pokemon isn't exactly the same. My guess for the change is that they had a lot of requests/complaints last year about not being able to use ubers.Comic Sans said:
Personally, I'm used to the Battle Tower rules, which really changes some things about viable strategies. While SubSeed strategies work amazingly, Stealth Rock does almost nothing since nobody ever switches.It's really only useful for stopping Focus sashes, and those don't come up too often. It is fun to be able to use Garchomp against pretty much anything, though.
I have no problem with the legendarys being allowed in. I can remember playing double battles with my friend, he was always changing his lineup daily, always revolving around various forms of legendary and powerful pokemon, while my lineup stayed the same all the way through the month, and I didn't loose once (and he was using higher level pokemin with an average of 5 higher by the end) because I worked out what elements and powers combine well. The best opening I could do was kyrogue (rain thing) and manetric (lightning rod-draws all electric attacks), meaning I could bombard with garunteed hit thunder from both of them, while he couldn't use the rain against me as he would only hit my dog.