Police shoot (another) unarmed black man in the back 7 times

Revnak

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If you wanna take out your feelings on something, get a punching bag. If you're not going to engage with my post, don't reply to it.
My apologies. This is a very frustrating topic to me.
 

Revnak

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Cops are traffic officers here.. Most of the people getting their teeth in are having it done at traffic stops.. Biden is calling to bring in social workers and psychiatrists and everyone started complaining about that.
Yeah, that’s why I added zero authority to arrest. Probably take away the gun too.
 
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lil devils x

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This is all just such insane liberal nonsense!
“The only way we can get cops to do better is if we pay them more”
If any other job was full of this much abuse, the correction would not be “give them more money.” I fuck up at my job and I get fired. Next guy does too they fire them. Mill workers fail a drug test? Fired. But cops, cops are pristine objects that must be rescued from the dumps of the working class so they can better oppress them. What the fuck man.
You have to remember they also have a higher probability than other professions of getting shot and attacked on the job as well and they have atrocious working conditions. They are not some " pristine Object" but we also can't pretend they do not have a completely shit job that you wouldn't even want to do. They have a higher risk of suicide than many professions for a reason.

I am not saying " rescue the bad cops". You have to have a plan to attract better people to the job if you want to get rid of the bad cops. What is your plan to attract better quality people to the job? Or you just don't have one? I wouldn't even want a bad cop writing parking tickets. The goal here is to remove the bad cops all together, otherwise it doesn't matter what rules we enforced upon them, they will just do it anyways and it will be a revolving door with high turnover of parades of bad cops instead. That is what you are proposing here.
 
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lil devils x

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Yeah, that’s why I added zero authority to arrest. Probably take away the gun too.
That was what I was talking about with the defensive and deescalation training they do in other nations. They have more cops, not less and they take them down by boxing them in with shields and such instead of having one cop chase them with a gun like they do in the US.
 

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You have to remember they also have a higher probability than other professions of getting shot and attacked on the job as well and they have atrocious working conditions. They are not some " pristine Object" but we also can't pretend they do not have a completely shit job that you wouldn't even want to do. They have a higher risk of suicide than many professions for a reason.
This kind of seems like you're saying that to be a cop is a noble endeavor and the kind of person who will take the job is a selfless, good individual.
 

Revnak

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That was what I was talking about with the defensive and deescalation training they do in other nations. They have more cops, not less and they take them down by boxing them in with shields and such instead of having one cop chase them with a gun like they do in the US.
None of that requires paying cops more than a median wage to draw them in. Maybe more people would be cops if cops didn’t suck ass.
 
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lil devils x

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That may just be "on the job" training. Police academy takes longer than that. And then most places have you spend months or years working at a penitentiary before you get to be the "on patrol" kind of cop.




What relation does money have with someone's proclivity to violence?
Can't a person say "I'll beat you up for free!" just as easily as they can say "I'll beat you up for money!"?
I already went over that here:


ALSO: " on patrol cops" are not required any of that here. In Texas, Sheriff's are elected, and they are only required to have a high school diploma and be a US citizen 18 yrs of age . They are encouraged to get training, but it isn't a requirement for sheriffs. Cities have different requirements depending on state/ jurisdiction.
https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/candidates/guide/2012/qualifications.shtml

Sheriffs can still drive around , pull you over, arrest you and all that here without that training. Usually we tend to have sheriffs with training due to beating out less qualified candidates, but it isn't a given.
 

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None of that requires paying cops more than a median wage to draw them in. Maybe more people would be cops if cops didn’t suck ass.
Under your proposal though, you won't even have enough cops to be able to implement their methods to begin with. You are just encouraging them to suck ass more.
 

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Revnak

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You have to remember they also have a higher probability than other professions of getting shot and attacked on the job as well and they have atrocious working conditions. They are not some " pristine Object" but we also can't pretend they do not have a completely shit job that you wouldn't even want to do. They have a higher risk of suicide than many professions for a reason.

I am not saying " rescue the bad cops". You have to have a plan to attract better people to the job if you want to get rid of the bad cops. What is your plan to attract better quality people to the job? Or you just don't have one? I wouldn't even want a bad cop writing parking tickets. The goal here is to remove the bad cops all together, otherwise it doesn't matter what rules we enforced upon them, they will just do it anyways and it will be a revolving door with high turnover of parades of bad cops instead. That is what you are proposing here.
I’ve worked more dangerous jobs than being a cop. I’ve worked jobs with higher suicide rates than being a cop. The primary cause of the former is the fact they’re in a car all day. Primary cause of the latter is their job is excessively alienating from their peers, even fellow officers. In any case, you can just get rid of the harmful incentives for getting a badge. You can take away the guns, the qualified immunity, the power to arrest (for most officers), etc. Then, maybe, we can discuss paying officers more. But to accomplish that first goal, you will have to diminish the local power of cops, which will only be accomplished through the coldest politics and will involve defunding, disbanding, etc. Adding another agency over the network of agencies that monitor cops won’t work. Perhaps if there was a total overhaul that immediately removed all existing police agencies and setup a new total system with a police force that had diminished authority you would be able to skip those steps, but I don’t see how that’s possible.
 
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Revnak

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Under your proposal though, you won't even have enough cops to be able to implement their methods to begin with. You are just encouraging them to suck ass more.
They’ll also lack the political power to stop those reforms on a local level. After that we can talk increasing incentives to draw in new cops.
 
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lil devils x

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I’ve worked more dangerous jobs than being a cop. I’ve worked jobs with higher suicide rates than being a cop. The primary cause of the former is the fact they’re in a car all day. Primary cause of the latter is their job is excessively alienating from their peers, even fellow officers. In any case, you can just get rid of the harmful incentives for getting a badge. You can take away the guns, the qualified immunity, the power to arrest (for most officers), etc. Then, maybe, we can discuss paying officers more. But to accomplish that first goal, you will have to diminish the local power of cops, which will only be accomplished through the coldest politics and will involve defunding, disbanding, etc. Adding another agency over the network of agencies that monitor cops won’t work. Perhaps if there was a total overhaul that immediately removed all existing police agencies and setup a new total system with a police force that had diminished authority you would be able to skip those steps, but I don’t see how that’s possible.
The "Harmful incentives" are already illegal. Like I said, this just creates a parade through a revolving door of bad officers. We can't take away their ability to arrest as that is what we actually NEED police for. We can bring in social workers and psychiatrists, but removing the ability to arrest for the cops means who is actually going to arrest the guy with the gun/ knife/ running over people with a car/ robbing the store/ kicking a granny in her ribs so he can steal her purse.. you see, we have people who NEED to be arrested all around us on a daily basis. That is why we have cops is to arrest them. Every job I have worked in required many occasions of needing cops to come arrest someone, often daily, or even multiple times a day. We can't pretend like there isn't a widespread need for arrests either.
 

lil devils x

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They’ll also lack the political power to stop those reforms on a local level. After that we can talk increasing incentives to draw in new cops.
We can address universal reform on a federal level which will give more incentives for compliance in departments on the local level when financial incentives are involved.
 

Revnak

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We can address universal reform on a federal level which will give more incentives for compliance in departments on the local level when financial incentives are involved.
Lol. No we won’t.
 

Revnak

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The "Harmful incentives" are already illegal. Like I said, this just creates a parade through a revolving door of bad officers. We can't take away their ability to arrest as that is what we actually NEED police for. We can bring in social workers and psychiatrists, but removing the ability to arrest for the cops means who is actually going to arrest the guy with the gun/ knife/ running over people with a car/ robbing the store/ kicking a granny in her ribs so he can steal her purse.. you see, we have people who NEED to be arrested all around us on a daily basis. That is why we have cops is to arrest them. Every job I have worked in required many occasions of needing cops to come arrest someone, often daily, or even multiple times a day. We can't pretend like there isn't a widespread need for arrests either.
90% of what cops do doesn’t require weapons. Most cops just pull people over. Violent incidents and picking people up with warrants for arrest shouldn’t be carried out by the same people who hand out speeding tickets.
 

lil devils x

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90% of what cops do doesn’t require weapons. Most cops just pull people over. Violent incidents and picking people up with warrants for arrest shouldn’t be carried out by the same people who hand out speeding tickets.
Most of what they do can be shifted to social workers and psychiatrists, and they can still be on scene, but just step back unless they are needed in those circumstance. HOWEVER, domestic violence cases and such are actually the riskiest thing cops even do and gets them killed regularly. It isn't always a case of " domestic violence = counselor only situations. You would just be getting counselors killed as well. Traffic stops can turn deadly quickly as well though.

Much of the problem is how prevalent violence is the reason for the police call in the first place. This is why the deescalation and defensive training is so vitally important to this.
 

Revnak

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Most of what they do can be shifted to social workers and psychiatrists, and they can still be on scene, but just step back unless they are needed in those circumstance. HOWEVER, domestic violence cases and such are actually the riskiest thing cops even do and gets them killed regularly. It isn't always a case of " domestic violence = counselor only situations. You would just be getting counselors killed as well. Traffic stops can turn deadly quickly as well though.

Much of the problem is how prevalent violence is the reason for the police call in the first place. This is why the deescalation and defensive training is so vitally important to this.
I didn’t bring up domestic violence cases as those should involve someone armed and a counselor who does the actual talking.
 

lil devils x

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I didn’t bring up domestic violence cases as those should involve someone armed and a counselor who does the actual talking.
Yea, those situations actually may need a good deal of backup from some of the crazy things I have seen.. Scary stuff there.

Problem is, those are most of their calls. It is those situations that screw with their heads going in to the next thing they have to do. That was why I was saying we have to reduce their hours WHILE increasing their pay. It is like that cop who came in and tackled that teen girl over the pool party.. he was all high on adrenaline coming from a shooting situation when he arrived at that stop and should not have been allowed to go to that stop. After dealing with something like that they should be able to go home the rest the day, and be able to go to counseling themselves but that can only happen if they have enough officers to cover it, and they are in salary so they wont be forced to take a pay cut to do so. Cops are human. They have PTSD. They have human problems so they are going to have to have that addressed and compensated as well.