Police shoot (another) unarmed black man in the back 7 times

Revnak

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Yea, those situations actually may need a good deal of backup from some of the crazy things I have seen.. Scary stuff there.

Problem is, those are most of their calls. It is those situations that screw with their heads going in to the next thing they have to do. That was why I was saying we have to reduce their hours WHILE increasing their pay. It is like that cop who came in and tackled that teen girl over the pool party.. he was all high on adrenaline coming from a shooting situation when he arrived at that stop and should not have been allowed to go to that stop. After dealing with something like that they should be able to go home the rest the day, but that can only happen if they have enough officers to cover it, and they are in salary so they wont be forced to take a pay cut to do so. Cops are human. They have PTSD. They have human problems so they are going to have to have that addressed and compensated as well.
Most of their work is traffic stops.
 

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Most of their work is traffic stops.
That is in between calls. If they come from a scary domestic violence call, their adrenaline is going to be too high for them to respond calmly to the next call or traffic stop at all. We have to address that without it hurting their pay. They take on more hours because they need to survive, so they can't take off when they have the normal, expected human issues effecting them from a previous call. They need to be able to do so as we have to calculate that in to expected pay for what the job actually requires of them.
 

Revnak

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That is in between calls. If they come from a scary domestic violence call, their adrenaline is going to be too high for them to respond calmly to the next call or traffic stop at all. We have to address that without it hurting their pay. They take on more hours because they need to survive, so they can't take off when they have the normal, expected human issues effecting them from a previous call. They need to be able to do so as we have to calculate that in to expected pay for what the job actually requires of them.
So the guys who respond to domestic violence maybe shouldn’t be the same guys who pull people over. That’s my point.
 
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lil devils x

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So the guys who respond to domestic violence maybe shouldn’t be the same guys who pull people over. That’s my point.
They are being forced to due to the inability to have their hours reduced to deal with the stress of the job without it affecting their pay. They are forced to do so if they want to keep a roof over their heads. That is why I am saying we have to address this pay issue, the hours they work, their benefits while adding social worker and psychiatrists not just to deal with the general public, but to help the officers themselves. We have to calculate that in to the job. Even when dealing with traffic stops, you never know what crazy shit is going to happen. If the officer has to deal with ANY violent confrontation, they should be able to take a time out whether it is from a traffic stop that went wild or if it is a domestic violence call. Sure most traffic stops are no big deal, but it is the ones where someone tries to have a shoot out with cops that mess up cops heads for every other stop they make. We have to adequately address time and compensation for officers for being human and having a human reaction to that type of incident and stress. We are not doing that well enough yet and why we have officers hyped up on adrenaline being paranoid and overreacting because of it and that gets people hurt and killed. Both officers and the people they are supposed to protect.
 

Gordon_4

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That may just be "on the job" training. Police academy takes longer than that. And then most places have you spend months or years working at a penitentiary before you get to be the "on patrol" kind of cop.
That makes no sense; community policing and being a prison guard are two totally different skill sets. Also Prison Guards fall under the department of corrections and to my knowledge have no powers of arrest. A Customs Officer has more law enforcement power than a screw.
 
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Houseman

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Gethsemani

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Also how the fuck does it take them seven minutes to move him? What were these dipshits doing?
I can see how hard that would be. From what's seen of the body cam footage the guy is obviously drugged out of his mind and doesn't have even a slight grasp of the situation he is in. So they need the guy off the road, because he's a public danger if he's allowed to drive on but he refuses to come out of his car. I've been in similar situations way more often then I'd really like, when we are forced to move non-complying patients either into the ward or into isolation and it is hard. Someone who doesn't want to move can easily require 4 or more trained people to transport, when they have plenty of space to move around. When the person is sitting in a car seat it is basically impossible to use force if you're only two people.

So we avoid that as much as possible, which means taking the time to try and convince people like the guy in the footage. And convincing someone who's high as a kite isn't exactly easy, it takes a lot of time because of the cognitive impairment from the high. Seven minutes isn't much time in comparison, in psychiatric care when we aren't in an exposed position like in the footage we can easily spend half an hour (even more if we have a slow day and can devot time to it) on the convincing part alone.
 

Gordon_4

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I can see how hard that would be. From what's seen of the body cam footage the guy is obviously drugged out of his mind and doesn't have even a slight grasp of the situation he is in. So they need the guy off the road, because he's a public danger if he's allowed to drive on but he refuses to come out of his car. I've been in similar situations way more often then I'd really like, when we are forced to move non-complying patients either into the ward or into isolation and it is hard. Someone who doesn't want to move can easily require 4 or more trained people to transport, when they have plenty of space to move around. When the person is sitting in a car seat it is basically impossible to use force if you're only two people.

So we avoid that as much as possible, which means taking the time to try and convince people like the guy in the footage. And convincing someone who's high as a kite isn't exactly easy, it takes a lot of time because of the cognitive impairment from the high. Seven minutes isn't much time in comparison, in psychiatric care when we aren't in an exposed position like in the footage we can easily spend half an hour (even more if we have a slow day and can devot time to it) on the convincing part alone.
To move someone who is uncooperative is difficult, but there are methods one can employ that are forceful without muzzle velocity being called upon. Transport gooseneck comes to mind. The main x-factor is that pistol. I won’t armchair quarterback - it would be pointless even one of them hadn’t died - but there just seem to be huge gaps in what they’re taught to obtain compliance. It’s bizarre; because these skill gaps put the public and them at risk.
 
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Seanchaidh

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You don't see the problem with people getting outraged over police using lethal force and then when we get an example of police not using lethal force everyone is spitting on their corpses when a guy shoots them?
Oh, thank heavens they just tortured a person instead of killing them.
 

Gethsemani

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To move someone who is uncooperative is difficult, but there are methods one can employ that are forceful without muzzle velocity being called upon. Transport gooseneck comes to mind. The main x-factor is that pistol. I won’t armchair quarterback - it would be pointless even one of them hadn’t died - but there just seem to be huge gaps in what they’re taught to obtain compliance. It’s bizarre; because these skill gaps put the public and them at risk.
For sure, and I've said it multiple times in the past: The US police needs more education and training before going out into the field. It is absurd that the "long" educations for police officers are about a year long in the US when most developed countries have training programs that are 2 years or more. There's simply no way you'll be ready to enforce the law after 6 months of mostly theoretical education.
 

Revnak

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Yes, but there's more to it. I'll let you figure it out.
Ah yes. Same argument as every apologist for fascist violence. Use one tragedy out of context to argue that the authorities aren’t violent enough. That they should shoot sooner, kill more. Blood for blood. It’s all your empty ideology has.
 

Gordon_4

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For sure, and I've said it multiple times in the past: The US police needs more education and training before going out into the field. It is absurd that the "long" educations for police officers are about a year long in the US when most developed countries have training programs that are 2 years or more. There's simply no way you'll be ready to enforce the law after 6 months of mostly theoretical education.
It depends, Australian police training times vary. Shortest is 24 weeks, longest is 32 weeks. So somehow we're behind the curve on that too, so that's depressing. So hey, take aim folks, we don't train our police any longer it seems. We've all fucked this up.
 

ralfy

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Ah yes. Same argument as every apologist for fascist violence. Use one tragedy out of context to argue that the authorities aren’t violent enough. That they should shoot sooner, kill more. Blood for blood. It’s all your empty ideology has.
The same argument applies to their opponents, i.e., everything that cops do is automatically seen as "fascist violence." And yet what you label in an immature manner as "cool" wasn't that. As the video revealed, the police officers did all that they could, and even used non-lethal means, and yet one was killed and another injured.

Thus, we have two empty ideologies: those who shoot before using non-lethal means, and yours: anything that a cop does is automatically seen as "fascist violence."
 
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Revnak

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The same argument applies to their opponents, i.e., everything that cops do is automatically seen as "fascist violence." And yet what you label in an immature manner as "cool" wasn't that. As the video revealed, the police officers did all that they could, and even used non-lethal means, and yet one was killed and another injured.

Thus, we have two empty ideologies: those who shoot before using non-lethal means, and yours: anything that a cop does is automatically seen as "fascist violence."
I don’t think you understand what a not insane person means when they just say “cool” and are assuming I am saying things I am not.
 

lil devils x

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I don’t think you understand what a not insane person means when they just say “cool” and are assuming I am saying things I am not.
Did you JUST attempt to claim you are not insane when you have been deprived of oxygen in a hellzone on fire for weeks with blood skies and raining ash and then have had to lock yourself in the house just to survive?! And all this AFTER the hell your city was going through due to the protests? That is enough to drive anyone to madness!
 

ralfy

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I don’t think you understand what a not insane person means when they just say “cool” and are assuming I am saying things I am not.
I don't think you understand that "cool" is not used to refer to something tragic.
 

Revnak

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I don't think you understand that "cool" is not used to refer to something tragic.
I wasn’t calling the event cool. I was acknowledging what you said. It’s like starting a rebuttal with “ok.” It’s absolutely normal. Stop being such a boomer.
 

ralfy

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I wasn’t calling the event cool. I was acknowledging what you said. It’s like starting a rebuttal with “ok.” It’s absolutely normal. Stop being such a boomer.
You're acknowledging and yet starting a rebuttal?

Boomer? That makes even less sense.