Police Union Uses A Black Woman's Son In P.R. Photo After Attacking Her

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Kae

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Okay, so your police are corrupt by the sound of things. So does your quest for abolition go global?
All police are corrupt Hawki, there are no exceptions, it's impossible to avoid in a system that puts a cost on human life.

Of course I see the issue with it, it's absurd. It's morally repugnant. But again, you'd have similar problems under other systems. Food waste isn't an issue confined to one economic system.
But at the rate it happens now it's exclusive to Capitalism, companies refuse to give away the food they can't sell because it's cheaper to throw it in the garbage, under this system the ability to make a couple of bucks is more important than human lives, every time they throw that food away or take water from small communities, that's murder, they're actively choosing to harm people by doing that, it's repulsive.

Socialism doesn't have the best record for reducing starvation - see Venezuela and North Korea. Also, the murder rate. Again, on the global level, murders have gone down, not up. Now, this isn't a case of "correlation equals causation," but if we agree that murder and robbery is less likely once people are lifted out of poverty, then, well, what's done a better job of lifting people out of poverty over the last 100 years?
It actually has a better track record than you think, while it's true that people starved under the Soviet Union due to well, many factors including poor management, historically Socialist economies have provided a better quality of life than other countries at the same economic level, this information is based on data provided by the World Bank a definitely capitalist organisation, you've just been lied to by the media and the education system.
You can find the study here if you want to read it.

I have little time or interest in argumentum ad extremum. Anyone saying "capitalism is the best thing ever, it's the perfect economic system, it can never be improved or replaced" is someone I have little time for either. The problem, as I see it, is that attempts at alternative economic systems (see socialism and communism) haven't provided a good alternative. I certainly hope there is an alternative out there (the closest I've seen is donut economics, but that's basically just theoretical at this point), but you're not going to sell me on the idea of state socialism/communism.

Granted, a lot of people say that any form of government interferance is socialism, and as per the above comments, I have no time for these people. There's a happy medium between the government running everything and the government running nothing.
Well I've made my own conclusion, I'm not asking you to take my word at face value, if anything of what I'm saying rings true to you, even if most of it sounds foolish and idealistic, why not research this on your own so you can reach their own conclusion?

First of all, who's "they?"
Oh, you know an abstract representation of the opposition, a flaw in my argument if we must analyse it further, very much the same mistake you made in your post, so let's not split hairs here.

Second of all, I don't think Mexico's a horrible hellscape, but it's not propaganda to acknowledge that Mexico has a lot of problems. You haven't really painted a pretty picture of Mexico yourself when you've already acknowledged corrupt police, drug cartels, and separatist movements.
Well it is reality, no different than most of the world though.

Third of all, China isn't a hellscape. It is, however, a country that has serious human rights issues and dubious foreign influence. This isn't some grand conspiracy, everyone knows it.
Oh, I very much dislike China's government and what happens there, that should be obvious though all my stances have been anti-authoritarian.

Fourth of all, I don't live in the USA, and the USA hasn't really afforded me or Australia anything since WWII (in a societal sense, there's obviously plenty of US media and technology I consume). Capitalism isn't some magic genie that's given me everything good in my life - good government has, and plenty of other things that exist regardless of an economic system. The USA has its own breed of insanity with capitalism, and it's not an insanity I'd be keen to live under. Better than the USSR, China, or Mexico? Sure. But not my first choice. The United States is disintegrating before my eyes, and a lot of that has to do with income inequality.
I don't know enough about Australia to comment on this, but surely it's obvious how many problems are directly the cause of the Economic System that most of the world has been forced to live under.
Again, happy mediums.
Nothing happy about a moderate solution, it has had a century to do something and it's literally on the border of destroying world.
 
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Kae

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I've nothing against capitalism being replaced, because by God it's got some issues. However, I have no desire to live in anarchy (and yes, that includes the actual system, not a descriptive).
Perfectly fair, investigate on your own and come up with your own solution, you don't have to agree with me, but not making a decision is the same as choosing capitalism there is no difference.


Except anarchy requires everyone to do a pinkie promise that they won't go authoratarian.

We lived in anarchy until around 10,000BCE. Come the year 2020, how's that turned out? Anarchy only exists as long as the world allows it to.
True to a degree, there are measures that can be taken to prevent this, but I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to cite them off the top of my head and I don't feel like reading a book to get the correct quotes.

Again, true. What's that got to do with economics?
Everything is connected, all issues must be address in order to find a solution to the current state of things.

I'm aware of private prisons (which strike me as insane), but again, a reformative prison system is a good idea, and most people acknowledge that. But there isn't a 1:1 relationship between economics and prison systems.
There is to a degree, the prison holds criminals and what are crimes is defined by the law, let's take for example a homeless person squatting on an unoccupied home, this is a crime but it harms no one, but since the real-estate industry needs them to be empty so they can sell them, or use them to artificially increase the value of housing in that neighbourhood, and so on, that kind of thing is what links the prison system directly to the economy, what are crimes is directly influenced by the economic system.
 
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Iron

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I'm not a fan of the apocalyptic approach to climate change atm. Yellowstone could erupt much more violently than Karakatoa.


The earth changes its position relative to the sun as well.


There's a bunch of stuff happening all at once. Yeah the introduction of more carbon into the atmosphere from burning fossil matter is bad, but it shouldn't dictate all of our reaction to climate change. I always viewed this as hubris, that humans were the main sources of climate change, and the only thing that can stop it. I believe it's neither.
 
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SupahEwok

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I'm not a fan of the apocalyptic approach to climate change atm. Yellowstone could erupt much more violently than Karakatoa.


The earth changes its position relative to the sun as well.


There's a bunch of stuff happening all at once. Yeah the introduction of more carbon into the atmosphere from burning fossil matter is bad, but it shouldn't dictate all of our reaction to climate change. I always viewed this as hubris, that humans were the main sources of climate change, and the only thing that can stop it. I believe it's neither.
Earth drifting away from the Sun should cool it...
 
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MrCalavera

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Earth drifting away from the Sun should cool it...

I'm not a fan of the apocalyptic approach to climate change atm. Yellowstone could erupt much more violently than Karakatoa.


The earth changes its position relative to the sun as well.


There's a bunch of stuff happening all at once. Yeah the introduction of more carbon into the atmosphere from burning fossil matter is bad, but it shouldn't dictate all of our reaction to climate change. I always viewed this as hubris, that humans were the main sources of climate change, and the only thing that can stop it. I believe it's neither.
So we just have to wait until that supervolcano explodes, and our problem fixes itself. Brilliant.
 

Iron

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Earth drifting away from the Sun should cool it...
Carbon isn't the only thing that affects global climate, is all. You don't need to actively look for things to debunk when having a conversation
 

Generals

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There's a bunch of stuff happening all at once. Yeah the introduction of more carbon into the atmosphere from burning fossil matter is bad, but it shouldn't dictate all of our reaction to climate change. I always viewed this as hubris, that humans were the main sources of climate change, and the only thing that can stop it. I believe it's neither.
It's no different from avoiding pollution, smoking, bad eating habits and drinking alcohol to reduce your odds of getting cancer. There is a strong genetic factor for many cancers but why stack the odds against yourself? Can humans "control" climate? No. Can they have an impact on it? Clearly yes. And in my opinion it would make sense to have a positive impact rather than negative (or at least limit the negative impact if we cannot have a positive one).
I think believing we can do whatever we want and believe we will somehow adapt to whatever our behavior causes to be far more arrogant than trying to limit our impact.(Not saying you believe we will be able to adapt to any climatic challenge that is coming towards us, but it is an argument I have read and heard very often)
 
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SupahEwok

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Carbon isn't the only thing that affects global climate, is all. You don't need to actively look for things to debunk when having a conversation
State quantitatively how much the Earth being 1.5cm from the Sun at the closest point in its orbit from the Sun affects global temperature averages, please.

If you can't answer that, it's an irrelevant point for discussion at best and actively disenginuous at worst.
 

Avnger

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I'm not a fan of the apocalyptic approach to climate change atm. Yellowstone could erupt much more violently than Karakatoa.


The earth changes its position relative to the sun as well.


There's a bunch of stuff happening all at once. Yeah the introduction of more carbon into the atmosphere from burning fossil matter is bad, but it shouldn't dictate all of our reaction to climate change. I always viewed this as hubris, that humans were the main sources of climate change, and the only thing that can stop it. I believe it's neither.
You do realize climate scientists actively factor effects like this into their analyses, right?

Do you honestly believe that your 5 minutes of googling "why isn't climate change real" makes you more knowledgeable than professionals who have dedicated decades of their lives to this field, particularly when the thread on polls showed how poor your ability to determine the validity of sources is? It's either that or you're just being completely disingenuous here.
 

SupahEwok

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You do realize climate scientists actively factor effects like this into their analyses, right?

Do you honestly believe that your 5 minutes of googling "why isn't climate change real" makes you more knowledgeable than professionals who have dedicated decades of their lives to this field, particularly when the thread on polls showed how poor your ability to determine the validity of sources is? It's either that or you're just being completely disingenuous here.
I thought it was Dwarvenhobble who was trying to advocate for the prescience of the Wisconsin Cookie Bakers' League?

So hard to keep track of fake news these days.
 

Iron

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You do realize climate scientists actively factor effects like this into their analyses, right?

Do you honestly believe that your 5 minutes of googling "why isn't climate change real" makes you more knowledgeable than professionals who have dedicated decades of their lives to this field, particularly when the thread on polls showed how poor your ability to determine the validity of sources is? It's either that or you're just being completely disingenuous here.
What thread on polls.
State quantitatively how much the Earth being 1.5cm from the Sun at the closest point in its orbit from the Sun affects global temperature averages, please.

If you can't answer that, it's an irrelevant point for discussion at best and actively disenginuous at worst.
Disingenuous how. I'm explaining how different things affect the climate. I can pull stuff about the sun's effects as well if I had the time to look for it.

Guys stop trying to shut me up. Disingenuous or poor ability or whatnot, you don't get to have the highroad in a discussion like this. If you want to feel superior go someplace else, I wanted to give my opinions, not get lectured by you.
 

SupahEwok

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What thread on polls.

Disingenuous how. I'm explaining how different things affect the climate. I can pull stuff about the sun's effects as well if I had the time to look for it.

Guys stop trying to shut me up. Disingenuous or poor ability or whatnot, you don't get to have the highroad in a discussion like this. If you want to feel superior go someplace else, I wanted to give my opinions, not get lectured by you.
*shrug* there's the option that you could get better at discussion, that's really not up to the rest of us.
 
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Iron

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*shrug* there's the option that you could get better at discussion, that's really not up to the rest of us.
You're combative in the discussion. It's not very pleasant. Disingenuous somehow became a keyword here to replace actual insults, you shouldn't go straight for a person's apparent motivations when you're having a discussion. Would you act this way with someone else in real life? I wouldn't. If I thought I was in the right, I'd try to walk them through their arguments. Instead you latched onto one thing that seemed to be unlikely to you and attacked me on it.
I could've talked about the ozone destroying gasses (like CFCs) that were banned in the in the 70s. It's an example of how humans can revert damage to the environment, since we've managed to fix the ozone layers or started having major improvements (can't remember for sure, there are several locations, with different results). Additionally, the deterioration of the ozone layers contributed to global warming and cancer rates as well - which would go down after this was resolved!
I had this argument in the barrel earlier but this kind of conversation just doesn't make me want to continue!
In other words, you genuinely did not expect any pushback.
In other words you ought to stop harassing me and following me from different threads.
 

Mister Mumbler

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Well, with climate change the main thing to fix it...

*looks at thread title*

...
 

Iron

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Such things are allowed on these forums. Truly a shining example of civil discussion and having respect for one another.
It's hard being a janitor, I don't fault them. I fault the people that decide to do it themselves.
 
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