[Politics] Trump, LBGT+ Ally

Kwak

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Shadowstar38 said:
Kwak said:
People regularly interviewed by those are legitimately neo-nazis. They choose their guests on how much it's going to 'stick to the liberal narrative'. Yes, they are terrible people.
If you were a fan of that media, an eager consumer of that crap, then yes, so would you be. In my opinion, of course.
That would make Sam Harris a neo-nazi according to this logic.

If you're judging people based on what they watch, not by their beliefs, words,actions, then...I mean wow. I've got nothing. The discussion is kind of pointless at that point.
The whole point of their shows is to give the illusion of 'rational logical discourse' on topics that all happen to be basically whatever is opposite to any supposed core 'liberal narrative'. People who are fans of that are not tuning in to be intellectually stimulated, they are there to pat each other on the back about how woke they are and how brainwashed everyone else is and how much they loathe leftists. That's who I'm judging. If you watch that stuff for research purposes to see how much they'll lie on any given subject, like Shaun for example [link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ6BZzQeCQ[/link], obviously, I'm not applying that judgement.
 

Shadowstar38

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Smithnikov said:
Shadowstar38 said:
That would make Sam Harris a neo-nazi according to this logic.
Not a neo-nazi, but still a shit human being.
A hesitate to ask in this thread what anyone's standards for a what good person are at this rate.
 

Saelune

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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
 

Saelune

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Silentpony said:
Saelune said:
Silentpony said:
Saelune said:
Silentpony said:
Smithnikov said:
Just because White has pointed out some creepers does not erase that she's a bigot and still an overall shit person. It just means she's a shit person who has done a couple of commendable things.
But that's the thing- even if she is a bigot, which sure she IS, I have no idea but ill go for it for crowd approval sake(meaing i have scene only a few of her videos and don't know enough to judge), that doesn't mean she is wrong. Meaning "I dont like trans people" and "This person is using the Trans identity to molest children" are not connected. We're adults here, we can have two thoughts in our brain and understand the difference. "I hate trans" fuck off, "I hate Pedos using trans as a shield, IE trans = pedo" yeah lets look into this. The politics should be regardless. I couldn't care less about Blair White hunting Pedos as I do Rachel Maddow -both are known political entities. And both are agreed that raping children is wrong. Know one should care about the political agenda behind stopping child rape.
When Christians who hate LGBT people condemn Muslims for hating LGBT people, that is some bullshit. Sure, Islam IS anti-LGBT, but when anti-LGBT Christians use that to excuse abuse against Muslims, that is not ok.

That is what this is.
That has nothing to do with anything. who cares about anyone's political leaning if the topic is 'We hate child rape' Who cares if Blair White is going after Jessica Yaniv for being an alleged pedophile just because Yaniv is Trans? Doing the right thing, ie going after a pedo, for the wrong reason, being trans, is still a good action even done for bad reasons.
You analogy only works if Blair White is herself a pedo, and is just going after Yaniv for being trans, not the whole topless children swim parties thing.

Voting against Donald Trump because you think his daughter is ugly is still a vote against Trump.
Calling the police when your neighbor's home is being invaded because you really don't want to risk a black family moving in after the neighbor is dead is still saving a life.
Letting a woman go on the life raft ahead of you because you don't think women can swim is still saving her life.
Calling the police on a pedophile and reporting her, 'cause you just hate those trans people, is still saving children.

As long as someone is doing the right thing, why should we care why? There are plenty of people doing wrong, and those people need to be called out. So long as Blair White spends her time stopping pedos using the trans identity as justification for their crimes, I'm prepared to over-look the fact she likes Trump, or might be bigoted(still haven't seen that, but that is besides the point)
So if a racist person murders a black person just for being black, but it turns out they raped someone, the killer should not be considered to have committed a hate crime? Like, the killer had no idea, they just happened to murder a rapist, its ok?

Like, you are literally saying 'The ends always justify the means', context be damned.

Like, do you really realize what you have posted here? Cause its pretty bad.
No, you've missed the point so hard its embarrassing. My point was doing the RIGHT thing, not the wrong thing. Murdering a black man is not the right thing. Of course doing the wrong thing is bad. What's bad is you thinking that someone political views prevent them from calling out non-political crimes. Blair white supports Trump, therefore she has no right to stop a predator from harming children.

Also FYI you're on record saying ends justify means all the time, just with people you disagree with.

Also just so you know, Ends justify the means means that the action you take is fine, so long as the outcome is a positive. In that context doing anything is fine, so long as something good happens. My point was, specifically, doing the right thing, even for the wrong reason. That is not ends justify the means, because the action has to be the right one, in my example trying to stop child rape, for the wrong reason, the rapist is trans.
So no, that's not ends justify the means. Ends justify the means would be allowing Jessica Yaniv to rape children, a bad action, if it ends up making her, a trans person, happy. That is a bad action, so long as a postie outcome. My point was that so long as the action is good, the initial reason for the action is moot. I never mentioned outcome.

So yeah...
Blair White isn't trying to stop pedophiles, she is trying to stop LGBT people. SHE SUPPORTS TRUMP WHO IS A PEDOPHILE! If she was anti-pedophile, she would not support Trump.


The ends CAN justify the means, but not in such a blanket way as you are saying. Plenty of times where the ends most certainly do NOT justify the means. Hence why I specifically used the word context. I actually choose my words pretty carefully most of the time. But that still did not stop you from jumping to the wrong conclusion.

I think using violence is justified when it is explicitly to do good, such as beating up a rapist or terrorist. Some people want to blanket condemn violence while ignoring cases where people need to defend themselves from evil people.

If Blair wants to oppose pedophilia, she needs to stop supporting pedophiles.

You know you owe her nothing, right? You dont have to go down with this ship. Its doing you no favors.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
Being skeptical of you flippantly accusing people of bigotry doesn't mean I'm on the side of the bigotry that hasn't been proven yet. This...this isn't how arguments work.
 

Saelune

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Silentpony said:
EDIT: Here I'll show you a great example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8JoQ2MWwoM
This is a video by the Quartering. He is a well known conservative anti-SJW commentator on YouTube. This video is about him trying to stop a YouTube channel whose content is animal abuse, specifically cat torture videos.
Are you okay with the Quartering being against cat torture even though you and he disagree politically, or because he's conservative you have to take the opposite point of view regardless, and either defend cat torture or say he has no right to make such videos.
Did he then go and vote for someone who abuses animals for President? Does he only attack LGBT people who abuse animals while ignoring non-LGBT people abusing animals?
 

Saelune

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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
Being skeptical of you flippantly accusing people of bigotry doesn't mean I'm on the side of the bigotry that hasn't been proven yet. This...this isn't how arguments work.
This is where I would have posted the Trevor Noah video, where he points out that a lot of people are bothered more by being called a bigot than actually being bigots.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
Being skeptical of you flippantly accusing people of bigotry doesn't mean I'm on the side of the bigotry that hasn't been proven yet. This...this isn't how arguments work.
This is where I would have posted the Trevor Noah video, where he points out that a lot of people are bothered more by being called a bigot than actually being bigots.
And that would just be another non-sequitur.
 

Saelune

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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
Being skeptical of you flippantly accusing people of bigotry doesn't mean I'm on the side of the bigotry that hasn't been proven yet. This...this isn't how arguments work.
This is where I would have posted the Trevor Noah video, where he points out that a lot of people are bothered more by being called a bigot than actually being bigots.
And that would just be another non-sequitur.
And this is where I would post the video from Princess' Bride where he goes 'You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means'.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
Being skeptical of you flippantly accusing people of bigotry doesn't mean I'm on the side of the bigotry that hasn't been proven yet. This...this isn't how arguments work.
This is where I would have posted the Trevor Noah video, where he points out that a lot of people are bothered more by being called a bigot than actually being bigots.
And that would just be another non-sequitur.
And this is where I would post the video from Princess' Bride where he goes 'You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means'.
So...you're basically just memeing because you're convinced you're right without actually having made that apparent. Good to know I guess.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Who said anything about Republicans?
You said she's "siding" with bigots. The only thing that you could possibly be referring to is her being politically conservative. Of course, this is me googling information and throwing out my best guess cause no one wants to actually tell me what makes her a bigot.
No, I am saying YOU are siding with bigots. She being the bigot you are siding with. I am reffering to her (hypocritical) anti-LGBT views, which are bigoted.
Being skeptical of you flippantly accusing people of bigotry doesn't mean I'm on the side of the bigotry that hasn't been proven yet. This...this isn't how arguments work.
This is where I would have posted the Trevor Noah video, where he points out that a lot of people are bothered more by being called a bigot than actually being bigots.
And that would just be another non-sequitur.
And this is where I would post the video from Princess' Bride where he goes 'You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means'.
So...you're basically just memeing because you're convinced you're right without actually having made that apparent. Good to know I guess.
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
So just because someone doesn't agree with you, you're going to label them anti-LGBT, despite having done nothing to lead anyone to think as such. And you claim to not be gaslighting anyone. Strange.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
So just because someone doesn't agree with you, you're going to label them anti-LGBT, despite having done nothing to lead anyone to think as such. And you claim to not be gaslighting anyone. Strange.
I am against people who are anti-LGBT, and thus they are against me. But you, like every other person who pushes this intentional fallacy want to make it seem like I assume anyone I don't like is anti-LGBT. You argue in extreme bad faith.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
So just because someone doesn't agree with you, you're going to label them anti-LGBT, despite having done nothing to lead anyone to think as such. And you claim to not be gaslighting anyone. Strange.
I am against people who are anti-LGBT, and thus they are against me. But you, like every other person who pushes this intentional fallacy want to make it seem like I assume anyone I don't like is anti-LGBT. You argue in extreme bad faith.
You told me I was on the side of bigots. Good faith was lost by that point
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
So just because someone doesn't agree with you, you're going to label them anti-LGBT, despite having done nothing to lead anyone to think as such. And you claim to not be gaslighting anyone. Strange.
I am against people who are anti-LGBT, and thus they are against me. But you, like every other person who pushes this intentional fallacy want to make it seem like I assume anyone I don't like is anti-LGBT. You argue in extreme bad faith.
You told me I was on the side of bigots. Good faith was lost by that point
You have spent 3+ pages defending Blair White, who is a bigot. You said you like facts, well thems the facts.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
So just because someone doesn't agree with you, you're going to label them anti-LGBT, despite having done nothing to lead anyone to think as such. And you claim to not be gaslighting anyone. Strange.
I am against people who are anti-LGBT, and thus they are against me. But you, like every other person who pushes this intentional fallacy want to make it seem like I assume anyone I don't like is anti-LGBT. You argue in extreme bad faith.
You told me I was on the side of bigots. Good faith was lost by that point
You have spent 3+ pages defending Blair White, who is a bigot. You said you like facts, well thems the facts.
You've spent 3+ pages...not giving me anything other than your word.

But more importantly, I'm not DEFENDING Blair white. I'm not DEFENDING anything. You made a claim. Support it with facts other than just saying she's a bigot.

You've pulled this same bullshit before where you'd accuse people of defending Nazi's or child torture when nothing of the sort was promoted. I'll start arguing in good faith when you stop your shenanigans.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
So basically you don't know what 'justify the means' means, or worse don't know what pedophile means.
You say white is going against LGBT. Okay. White is not going against Pedos. Okay. White is going against Yaniv. Okay. Yaniv wants topless children. Okay.
Conclusion based on your logic, wanting naked children is not pedophilia.

See the problem here?
Or to use your murder a black man analogy from before, murdering a black man in cold blood is to a stopping a trans person abusing children what being a secret murderer is to being conservative. I mean you really thinking murdering a black man is the moral equivalent of stopping a trans person from hurting children? This is the hill you're on?
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
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Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Saelune said:
You keep projecting and accusing me of the things you're doing. The only people here who think I am wrong are anti-LGBT people.
So just because someone doesn't agree with you, you're going to label them anti-LGBT, despite having done nothing to lead anyone to think as such. And you claim to not be gaslighting anyone. Strange.
I am against people who are anti-LGBT, and thus they are against me. But you, like every other person who pushes this intentional fallacy want to make it seem like I assume anyone I don't like is anti-LGBT. You argue in extreme bad faith.
You told me I was on the side of bigots. Good faith was lost by that point
You have spent 3+ pages defending Blair White, who is a bigot. You said you like facts, well thems the facts.
You've spent 3+ pages...not giving me anything other than your word.

But more importantly, I'm not DEFENDING Blair white. I'm not DEFENDING anything. You made a claim. Support it with facts other than just saying she's a bigot.

You've pulled this same bullshit before where you'd accuse people of defending Nazi's or child torture when nothing of the sort was promoted. I'll start arguing in good faith when you stop your shenanigans.
Silentpony said:
Saelune said:
So basically you don't know what 'justify the means' means, or worse don't know what pedophile means.
You say white is going against LGBT. Okay. White is not going against Pedos. Okay. White is going against Yaniv. Okay. Yaniv wants topless children. Okay.
Conclusion based on your logic, wanting naked children is not pedophilia.

See the problem here?
Or to use your murder a black man analogy from before, murdering a black man in cold blood is to a stopping a trans person abusing children what being a secret murderer is to being conservative. I mean you really thinking murdering a black man is the moral equivalent of stopping a trans person from hurting children? This is the hill you're on?
It makes a lot more sense when you don't rely on nonsensical bullshit.
 

Shadowstar38

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Saelune said:
It makes a lot more sense when you don't rely on nonsensical bullshit.
My position is completely sensible. You don't see it that way, and it doesn't look like I'll convince you otherwise anytime soon so, eh. That just puts us right back at square one. One of us is fucking up and we don't agree on who it is.