[Politics] UK Suspends Parliament

[JamesStone]

I think I did to take a break because I am thoroughly pissed off. I will try to address what I can quickly.

I voted to leave, that is all. If they wanted to frustrate brexit so be it, I'm not backing down.
I remember the general election, both conservatives and labour said we would leave.

You voted for a fever fantasy no rational person could see working, and in a few years you and your unfortunate countrymen will see the folly of rash, far right propagandist ridiculous views, while the leavers will continue the childish rethoric of blaming everyone but themselves for the shambles they have created.

Brexiteers have recieved exactly what they voted for, even if it wasn't the pipe fantasy they were dreaming about. The EU are a bunch of cunts and somehow the Tories managed to out-**** them by far. Anyone who thinks that it is to their political benefit to burn downt he forest right next to their house because they have a wild animal problem gets no sympathy from me.

 

[Silvanus]

I think it's fair to say many Tory MPs would be more inclined to rebel if it weren't for Corbyn. It is hard to underestimate just how much of a turn-off Corbyn is for a large number of Britons, particularly those on the right.

I think a lot of them might swallow someone with similar policies, just one that didn't have the same historical baggage and dodgy associations.

If the dodgy associations weren't there, the papers would create them (see the Daily Mail's line of attack against Miliband on the basis that his deceased father was a Marxist).

Honestly, the associations Corbyn has had are pretty poor, but so are Johnson's (and May's). The same people didn't give a shit about those.

It's the vaguely left-wing platform that the papers object to, and it's the papers that decide which associations-- real or otherwise-- people read about.

 

[Baffle]

If the dodgy associations weren't there, the papers would create them (see the Daily Mail's line of attack against Miliband on the basis that his deceased father was a Marxist).

Honestly, the associations Corbyn has had are pretty poor, but so are Johnson's (and May's). The same people didn't give a shit about those.

It's the vaguely left-wing platform that the papers object to, and it's the papers that decide which associations-- real or otherwise-- people read about.

I agree with you but I can't see Labour getting in with Corbyn in charge - too many people just really really hate him (in a way they didn't hate Miliband). Eh, if that colossal bellend Johnson calls a GE I'll still be voting for Labour (assuming they do actually campaign on anti-Brexit rather than wishy-washy bullshit) when Corbyn inevitably refuses to step aside, but I know a lot of people who would otherwise vote Labour who won't.

 

[Agema]

If the dodgy associations weren't there, the papers would create them (see the Daily Mail's line of attack against Miliband on the basis that his deceased father was a Marxist).

Honestly, the associations Corbyn has had are pretty poor, but so are Johnson's (and May's). The same people didn't give a shit about those.

It's the vaguely left-wing platform that the papers object to, and it's the papers that decide which associations-- real or otherwise-- people read about.

I don't think that the Mail claiming Miliband's dad was a Marxist means that much. The public are not entirely gullible, and outside the converted wanting to be preached to, I'm not sure such crude character assassination articles are that effective.

Corbyn, however, is pretty to hang by his own words and actions. His iffy ground on things like the IRA, Falklands and Hamas are painful. Back in the day as a backbencher being a lefty gadfly it wasn't so big a deal, but as leader of a party hoping to run the party it's bad. I know they're exaggerated to some extent, but even still... there are a lot of people who'd be fine with a strong lefty, but are deeply patriotic / nationalistic and view that sort of stuff extremely poorly. His fumblingly hopeless attempts at dealing with antisemitism only add to the unsavoury mix. After that, he has some SPADs in high places who have very significant ex-communist links, which adds to the sense of suspicion.

Johnson and May have the advantage of mostly aggravating a load of voters who would be against them anyway, and not so much parts of the middle or muddled ground who could swing.

 

[Baffle]

The public are not entirely gullible, and outside the converted wanting to be preached to, I'm not sure such crude character assassination articles are that effective.

I wish you were right, but I've had to bite my tongue at too many dinner tables to suggest that's the case.

 

[Agema]

I wish you were right, but I've had to bite my tongue at too many dinner tables to suggest that's the case.

Apparently, some 70% of tabloid readers don't trust their paper. That still means 30% do, of course...

 

[Baffle]

Apparently, some 70% of tabloid readers don't trust their paper. That still means 30% do, of course...

It's a weird one because when you question (okay, ridicule) people's decision to read the Daily Mail, they're quite happy to say it's a load of nonsense, but then they talk about things in the news and quite clear that they've taken everything in the Mail at face value!

 

[Agema]

It's a weird one because when you question (okay, ridicule) people's decision to read the Daily Mail, they're quite happy to say it's a load of nonsense, but then they talk about things in the news and quite clear that they've taken everything in the Mail at face value!

I think the power of the paper not so much that it's automatically believed, so much that it... both starts a conversation and sets a tone of that conversation. The article may not be believed outright, but if you then talk to half a dozen people all with the same reference point of that article, that's where I think people are more likely to be swayed, because we often like to minimise conflict and agree with those around us in social situations.

 

[WindKnight]

The public are not entirely gullible, and outside the converted wanting to be preached to, I'm not sure such crude character assassination articles are that effective.

I wish you were right, but I've had to bite my tongue at too many dinner tables to suggest that's the case.

Vaguely remember catching a tv program where two high school classes one predominantly white, one predominantly muslim, got mixed together and shown ten mugshots of varying ethnicities and decide which ones were of terrorists (all of them were). All the white kids immediately decided the white mugshots weren't terrorists, and all the others were. The noise is so pervasive its drowning out the signal and making much more of an impression.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Boris Johnson defeated as MPs take control
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49573555

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Boris Johnson defeated as MPs take control
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49573555

We are Back in control, force them to surrender
Take what is ours, restore law and order

I wish YouTube links were working. I also wish Brexit weren't such a shitshow.

 

[Baffle]

I also wish Brexit weren't such a shitshow.

Do you feel it's stealing all the glory?

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

It's amazing how much spare money there is when it comes to fixing, covering up Tory fuck-ups or fellating their own sense of nationalist grandeur, while still denying vital public services the funds they need as they're slowly outsourced to offshore privatisation or closed down entirely. Women's refuges being closed down has affected a close one recently to the point where police have admitted to her she would've been dead if she was left in her situation any longer. Whilst pregnant, I should add. Just one of countless examples of vulnerable people across the country who depend on such services.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I also wish Brexit weren't such a shitshow.

Do you feel it's stealing all the glory?

You mean attention from what a dumpster fire US politics has become? Nah. There's enough dumpster fire to go around.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

So if they are successful at blocking a no deal Brexit:
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/05/law-block-no-deal-will-pass-lords-friday-dramatic-night-debate-10688762/

1)Will that mean Brexit will just keep getting postponed until they manage a deal?
2)Doesn't Boris Johnson have to be the one to ask for an extension from the EU, and what if he doesn't do that?
3)Does that pretty much throw out Boris Johnson's plan for forcing a hard Brexit by suspending Parliament?
4)According to the data we have, elderly voters are the primary reason leave won in the first place when many of them will not even be around to have to deal with the repercussions from doing so.
https://time.com/4381878/brexit-generation-gap-older-younger-voters/

Is it possible for them to delay the Brexit long enough for the elderly voters who voted for this to pass away and then call for a new referendum so that they may choose to not do a Brexit in the future before they actually leave? With the vote so close in the first place, it was already unlikely that leave would win a second time anyhow, but with the vote divided so much by age, statistically, it would be even more unlikely every year that goes by. Is it possible they could actually delay it long enough for voters to vote out Brexiteers and be allowed another referendum?

I think it is awful that they would be willing to force this tragedy upon people who clearly do not want it according to the demographics of the voters and it seems like utter madness that they would allow 51% to decide what the 49% were going to do in this situation in the first place rather than require at least 75% approval before they acted. It is very likely now they do not even have the 51% they had when they started because no one took the " bluff" voting seriously the first go around in the first place due to thinking it wasn't going to happen or didn't understand what it actually meant for their daily lives. The whole thing just seems so crazy that they would be willing to force people into something so lifechanging they don't even want to do in the first place. How can they even enforce a law blocking a no deal Brexit, when it is really up to the EU in the end as to whether or not they want to give them more time? I want them to be given more time, enough time to vote these people out of office and elect people who will give them another referendum so that they can be sure this is what the people really want before they do something that can not only destroy lives of their citizens but also destroy their country in the process. Scotland wants to stay in the EU, and the UK cannot seriously expect to hold them hostage and prevent them from doing so, so it is likely that Scotland will choose the EU over the UK at this point as they are rightly pissed about the UK decisions and how they have been treated throughout this ordeal.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brexit-news-scotland-independence-gains-momentum-as-united-kingdom-set-to-leave-european-union/

Scotland staying in the EU would be a boost to their economy, as they could very well have businesses relocate there and possibly even gain EU contracts the UK would be losing.

 

[bluegate]

So if they are successful at blocking a no deal Brexit:
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/05/law-block-no-deal-will-pass-lords-friday-dramatic-night-debate-10688762/

1)Will that mean Brexit will just keep getting postponed until they manage a deal?
2)Doesn't Boris Johnson have to be the one to ask for an extension from the EU, and what if he doesn't do that?
3)Does that pretty much throw out Boris Johnson's plan for forcing a hard Brexit by suspending Parliament?
4)According to the data we have, elderly voters are the primary reason leave won in the first place when many of them will not even be around to have to deal with the repercussions from doing so.
https://time.com/4381878/brexit-generation-gap-older-younger-voters/

Is it possible for them to delay the Brexit long enough for the elderly voters who voted for this to pass away and then call for a new referendum so that they may choose to not do a Brexit in the future before they actually leave? With the vote so close in the first place, it was already unlikely that leave would win a second time anyhow, but with the vote divided so much by age, statistically, it would be even more unlikely every year that goes by. Is it possible they could actually delay it long enough for voters to vote out Brexiteers and be allowed another referendum?

If they somehow manage to postpone it for the next 15 years or more, maybe.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

So if they are successful at blocking a no deal Brexit:
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/05/law-block-no-deal-will-pass-lords-friday-dramatic-night-debate-10688762/

1)Will that mean Brexit will just keep getting postponed until they manage a deal?
2)Doesn't Boris Johnson have to be the one to ask for an extension from the EU, and what if he doesn't do that?
3)Does that pretty much throw out Boris Johnson's plan for forcing a hard Brexit by suspending Parliament?
4)According to the data we have, elderly voters are the primary reason leave won in the first place when many of them will not even be around to have to deal with the repercussions from doing so.
https://time.com/4381878/brexit-generation-gap-older-younger-voters/

Is it possible for them to delay the Brexit long enough for the elderly voters who voted for this to pass away and then call for a new referendum so that they may choose to not do a Brexit in the future before they actually leave? With the vote so close in the first place, it was already unlikely that leave would win a second time anyhow, but with the vote divided so much by age, statistically, it would be even more unlikely every year that goes by. Is it possible they could actually delay it long enough for voters to vote out Brexiteers and be allowed another referendum?

If they somehow manage to postpone it for the next 15 years or more, maybe.

From the looks of the numbers they have already though, it already looked unlikely Leave would have won a second referendum like the day after they won because people protest voted or didn't even realize what it actually meant. When many that voted leave realized what it meant to their daily lives and what was realistically to be expected, many expressed they wanted to change their vote or felt that they were scammed by the leave campaign lies about more money from NHS and services when it is far more likely everything will be receiving cuts instead just to support existing infrastructure.

The most disturbing part now I think is the people who still think that the lies they were told are what they are getting even after they were told they were lies in the first place and are willing to tear their country and their people apart over something that is never going to happen in the first place.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If they somehow manage to postpone it for the next 15 years or more, maybe.

If they held another referendum (another "unspecified leave" vs "remain") tomorrow, I'd expect it'd go for "Remain". Not just because of the old people dying off in the meantime, but because people have had to stop and think about what Brexit would mean, and the lies are getting called out. Still a hard core element who are happy with hurting the UK, but they only got a slight majority last time.

EDIT: Ok, was just a little too slow posting this, see above.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

If they somehow manage to postpone it for the next 15 years or more, maybe.

If they held another referendum (another "unspecified leave" vs "remain") tomorrow, I'd expect it'd go for "Remain". Not just because of the old people dying off in the meantime, but because people have had to stop and think about what Brexit would mean, and the lies are getting called out. Still a hard core element who are happy with hurting the UK, but they only got a slight majority last time.

EDIT: Ok, was just a little too slow posting this, see above.

That is what is so insane to me, the fact that they would let 51% on one referendum decide what 49% was going to do in something this serious in the first place. That seems like complete madness tbh. Not even a supermajority, not even multiple votes, not even laying out a plan.. nothing. Why would anyone ever think that a good idea in the first place? This is something serious enough to tear apart people's lives, dissolve their nation and they are doing it like this to begin with?!

 

[bluegate]

Is it possible for them to delay the Brexit long enough for the elderly voters who voted for this to pass away

If they somehow manage to postpone it for the next 15 years or more, maybe.

From the looks of the numbers they have already though,

How many elderly people died since 2016?