Poll: Am I to blame

Nuxxy

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Feb 3, 2011
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Maybe it's got nothing to do with 'blame'. Maybe the girls are hurting emotionally because they've just had a traumatic experience and they just want commiseration. They are probably also feeling a little powerless from suffering a personal violation. I'm sure they would love to punish their attackers, but that's probably not an option, and you just happen to be the misdirected target for their justified anger.

So answer this: have you said sorry? Not "sorry it's all my fault", but "I'm really sorry for what happened to you" and "I'm really sorry I didn't try harder to stop you leaving". Follow those sincere words up with "I really hate that things are bad between us now...I really hope those bastards get what they deserve. But for now, is there anything I can do to help you get over it?" You have now shown them that you are also angry, and shown them who the anger should be directed at.

Then ask them if they want to go get a coffee or icecream or something. You will have tried to repair your friendship. If they choose not to take the opportunity, that's their bad, and they are people you can do without.
 

Tiamattt

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Jul 15, 2011
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Eh, I would give the OP a little break about the whole not knowing about "how one dresses not affecting their chances of being attacked" thing, it's not really common knowledge or something that people think to look up. And the cherry on top of that is parents like to drill in it into their kids heads that the idea is actually true. Hell I wouldn't mind seeing more evidence about it myself.

As for the "stop them by any means necessary" idea, man that would've gone so bad for you if you tried to physically stop them. They already had a group of people on their side, and I would bet anything that they would scream like a pair of banshees the second you laid your hands on them. And well you can imagine what would happen next.
 

mitchell271

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Sep 3, 2010
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You are in no way at fault there. You tried to stop them and gave a valid reason why. Saying be careful about where you are and what state you're in as a warning is not victim blaming. You had to take care of your brother and they were too impatient (albeit drunk and impatient). If they're still mad at you when they're sober, they're not very good people and really exercise their ability to project blame.
 

zarker

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Oct 14, 2012
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The blame lies 50-50 with the two fucktards and the attacker. In a perfect world, they wouldn't have to worry about being assaulted...but this isn't a perfect world. It's their responsibility to take the preferred course of action and their course of action placed them in harm's way. I suggest that you separate yourself from them, they don't deserve sympathy and they're using you (the guy that tried to prevent this from happening in the first place) to remove responsibility for their poor choice.

On a side note, it's a good thing you didn't stop them physically. That would have ended really badly for you.
 

Miyenne

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May 16, 2013
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Their fault.

You did what was right, you stayed with your brother and encouraged them to stay. They didn't.

Now, I do believe all women (and men) should be able to go anywhere they like wearing anything and be completely safe doing it. Wearing revealing clothing and being drunk shouldn't be an invitation.

But it is. I'm sorry, but that's the world we live in. It would be like if I strapped some steaks to my shirt and wandered outside here at night, insisting "No, the wolves and coyotes won't hurt me, just because I look tasty."

I'd get eaten.

I'm not victim blaming... Well, maybe I am a bit. Because as much as we want to live in an ideal world, we DO NOT.

Of course the attacker is to blame too. He should be shot and done with, because although animals have a thought process too humans have more sense. Some people choose to ignore it, some people lack it all together though.

It's the world we live it, and people need to accept that.
 

DoveAlexa

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Oct 28, 2009
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knight steel said:
Get new friends, people who aren't shit never even accidentally act this way.
Seriously, if you know what the deal is, you're better than they are and can do better.
 

Sectan

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Aug 7, 2011
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Well obviously the attacker caused the whole situation, but a little bit of caution or patience could have made this situation never happen. Show the chicks this thread. They'll probably get the message.
 

rasputin0009

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Feb 12, 2013
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I don't think it's fair for them to blame you. The attacker should be blamed. They shouldn't blame themselves either. But they're pretty stupid for skipping out on a free ride home. And the argument that they're not responsible for their own actions because they were intoxicated is moot. If they went and committed a crime while they were drunk, that wouldn't be your fault. I had a buddy steal the national flag from a police station one drunken night. When he got in shit for it, he didn't blame us because it was his dumb ass who still did it.
 

hornedcow

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Jun 4, 2013
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Based on the assumption that what you're saying is entirely true, then no it wasn't your fault. I would say it was partly their fault but saying that someone who was almost raped was to blame for it doesn't sit well with me. I suppose the only person any reasonable individual can blame is the attacker. My advice in that situation is to calmly explain your side of the story to anyone who asks, and avoid the girls in question.
 

rasputin0009

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Feb 12, 2013
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Miyenne said:
Their fault.

You did what was right, you stayed with your brother and encouraged them to stay. They didn't.

Now, I do believe all women (and men) should be able to go anywhere they like wearing anything and be completely safe doing it. Wearing revealing clothing and being drunk shouldn't be an invitation.

But it is. I'm sorry, but that's the world we live in. It would be like if I strapped some steaks to my shirt and wandered outside here at night, insisting "No, the wolves and coyotes won't hurt me, just because I look tasty."

I'd get eaten.

I'm not victim blaming... Well, maybe I am a bit. Because as much as we want to live in an ideal world, we DO NOT.

Of course the attacker is to blame too. He should be shot and done with, because although animals have a thought process too humans have more sense. Some people choose to ignore it, some people lack it all together though.

It's the world we live it, and people need to accept that.
Man, I wish I knew you in person so as to slap the dumb out of you. What are the levels of skin showing and levels of intoxication that all of a sudden become an "invitation" for rapists? "They were asking for it." is really a dick thing to say. Never victim blame.
 

traineesword

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Jan 24, 2010
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JT-ham said:
Master of the Skies said:
Honestly, it sounds like you just made this scenario up.
I feel the same way. Sorry, OP. You almost had me convinced right up until you said that a bunch of randoms in a bar started yelling at you for "victim-blaming" and encouraging "rape culture". After that the whole thing just sounded completely tailored, like the sort of story that someone would invent after getting annoyed in a thread about gender issues.

Since we've only heard about this scenario from the perspective of one person - and to be honest it does sound like something that's being posed as a hypothetical to start a discussion rather than a thing that actually happened - I didn't bother voting. A little too far-fetched.

If you are telling the truth and this whole bizarre thing actually happened just as you said it did, you of course have my apologies.
I'd feel it was more far-fetched if it were just in a random bar, but the fact he and all his friends are students sways it so that it slightly more likely(at least in my experience as a student).
Tonnes of people in my University (boys and girls) have in-depth discussions about victim-blaming, rape culture etc. etc. So it is often on people's minds. Practically all these people also go out for drinks in bars, so it isn't unlikely that if they overheard what seemed like two girls being "scolded" for wearing revealing clothing they'd turn around in their chairs and defend them. Although it is still an odd thought that seems unlikely to happen, I guess I'm saying I can kind of see it happening.
 

manic_depressive13

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Dec 28, 2008
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Flames66 said:
Would you mind providing evidence of the supposed lack of correlation between attire and likelihood of assault? The only evidence I have seen shows a fairly direct correlation.
knight steel said:
Well I didn't know that info mind linking to your sources that state that as I would assume that clothing would normally play some sort of factor but I could be wrong.
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=djglp

The author of this article goes as far to suggest:
While people perceive dress to have an impact on who is assaulted, studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor. Instead, rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing. (140) In a study to test whether males could determine whether women were high or low in passiveness and submissiveness, Richards and her colleagues found that men, using only nonverbal appearance cues, could accurately assess which women were passive and submissive versus those who were dominant and assertive. (141) Clothing was one of the key cues: "Those females high in passivity and submissiveness (i.e., those at greatest risk for victimization) wore noticeably more body-concealing clothing (i.e., high necklines, long pants and sleeves, multiple layers)." (142) This suggests that men equate body-concealing clothing with passive and submissive qualities, which are qualities that rapists look for in victims. Thus, those who wore provocative clothes would not be viewed as passive or submissive, and would be less likely to be victims of assault.
It's also in the list here: http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/myths.html

Research has found that the vast majority of rapes are planned. Rape is the responsibility of the rapist alone. Women, children and men of every age, physical type and demeanor are raped. Opportunity is the most important factor determining when a given rapist will rape.
It is a disgusting and harmful lie that scantily dressed women are more likely to be targetted, as evidenced by how many people in this thread are blaming the victims in this scenario. Were the women rude not to wait for your brother? Yes, but you were more rude when you accused them of being rape bait.

Were they wrong to supposedly try and blame you afterwards? Of course.

Was it their fault for daring to step outside unaccompanied and dressed scantily and provocatively [sub][sub](you never said slut!)[/sub][/sub]? Fuck no. None the less, that is the strong implication of your OP, and it's appalling and untrue. You also attempt to ridicule the people who called you out for victim blaming (which you were) with the phrasing of your next line ("Well as it turns out, I was right!") further reinforcing the notion that you think they were wrong for standing up for themselves. They should have accepted your slut-shaming with grace and just gotten into the car [sub][sub](but you never said slut!)[/sub][/sub].
 

Miyenne

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May 16, 2013
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rasputin0009 said:
Man, I wish I knew you in person so as to slap the dumb out of you. What are the levels of skin showing and levels of intoxication that all of a sudden become an "invitation" for rapists? "They were asking for it." is really a dick thing to say. Never victim blame.
I didn't say it was entirely their fault, nor that they were asking for it. I said they knew of the possibility and believed just because it "shouldn't" happen, that it "wouldn't". That's being naive.

I just said that in reality, rape happens and if you're drunk; making you an easier target, it may very well happen.

If I hadn't gone wandering alone on the streets at night after being at the club, I would have been safe. If I'd listened to my cousin and stayed longer with them and took the bus with them instead of going myself I most likely would have been fine. I'm just glad my friend drove by at the right time that night.

I was the stupid one for going out alone, knowing full well the consequences and possibilities.
 

Glongpre

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Jun 11, 2013
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The attacker and the Women are to blame.

The attacker because obviously.

The women because they were warned of the dangers but proceeded anyway. NOT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY DRESS.
 

BNguyen

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Mar 10, 2009
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Based on your story, you aren't to blame, but this is a lose/lose situation and right now, I think you'd best drop their sorry asses like rocks because either way, you'll be blamed - the whole damned if you do and damned if you don't thing. Besides, if your friends aren't willing to listen to your side of the story after listening to them, then they can't really be called friends now can they?
and personally, I'm not against someone wanting to wear more revealing clothing, but doing so shows to a potential attacker that you don't exactly have something hidden to protect yourself - deterrent I believe is the word.
 

Vareoth

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Mar 14, 2012
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You have no blame in this. You warned them to protect them from a very real danger. They were drunk and as such ignored you and almost got raped. And now they are trying to blame you because they are pathetically oblivious to that fact that they are dumb.

My advice would be to ignore creatures like that.

Of course the attacker is biggest asshole in this scenario.
 

90sgamer

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Jan 12, 2012
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All of you are to blame but the person/people who attached two women is most to blame.

Did you contribute? Yes. Those girls were your responsibility. You should have called a cab and walked them to the cab. You don't need to hold your brother's hand while he spills his stomach into a toilet bowl. Did the girls contribute? Yes. They were being self centered bitches, which enabled the problem.

I suggest getting better friends. Perhaps friends who do not think that getting shit faced is fun. Because getting shit faced is not fun.
 

Hero of Lime

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Jun 3, 2013
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I voted the attacker is to blame. It may sound like a cop out answer, but I always blame the criminal or the cause of the problem in the first place. I can understand that the girls wouldn't be happy with what happened, but dealing with drunk people especially more than one isn't easy according to your story, and from what I've heard from similar stories. I hope you friends realize that you didn't have control of the situation, and that they made a fair share of mistakes, especially your brother who drank so much that he couldn't even leave. In the end, the girls shouldn't have tried to walk home drunk, but the attacker again is the reason for the problem.
 

Xanex

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Jun 18, 2012
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Man or woman, regardless of how they dress should not ever walk through a questionable and unfamiliar neighborhood at night period. Alot of people have voted for the attacker I dissagree. By putting themselves in the position they ended up in, is their fault and their fault alone.

A while back a friend of mines brother went driving through a area best avoided at night trying to score some ahhhh....stuff. Yeah we'll go with stuff. His car ended up with a few bullet holes in it. He called the cops(keeping his reason for being there a secret, thought the cops knew anyway), and the cops told him and I quote "Keep your dumbass outa there." In other words he was a fault for going there to start with.