Poll: Bioshock's theme?

[bubbaroark0451]

I am quite puzzled as to the general consensus regarding the moral of Bioshock's plot. It seems as though every genetically enhanced gamer and his dog is of the belief that Bioshock's was nothing more than a means to bash Ayn Rand's philosophical ideals with a one two combo and I'd like to know why. Quite frankly I'd have to say the game leaned more to my side of the wing.

Please inform as to what you think Bioshock's principle message is.

 

[Alex_P]

You don't have to be a socialist to bash Rand.

I'm of the opinion that almost any rendering of an Objectivist story into a semi-realistic context can be considered Rand-bashing.

-- Alex

 

[Aries_Split]

You don't have to be a socialist to bash Rand.

I'm of the opinion that almost any rendering of an Objectivist story into a semi-realistic context can be considered Rand-bashing.

-- Alex

Quoted for Truth!

 

[bubbaroark0451]

Thank GOD for posters like you!! I was thinking the viewers were guffawing at my loneliness.

 

[fluffylandmine]

you can bash rand regardless of your stance

 

[bubbaroark0451]

Fluffy Land Mine!!! I can't shake him!!!! He's EVERYWHERE!!!

Oh and I was talking in terms of Bioshock sooooo.....

 

[Alex_P]

You don't have to be a socialist to bash Rand.

I'm of the opinion that almost any rendering of an Objectivist story into a semi-realistic context can be considered Rand-bashing.

-- Alex

Just to be clear here, since the responses make it seems like I wasn't: that's me bashing Ayn Rand.

Objectivism + tiny dose of reality = automatic indictment of Objectivism.

-- Alex

 

[Knight Templar]

Wow your world is so intersting, I don't understand a thing.


On topic however I think something of this sort of thread has been done before, it was more about bioshock than the book however. And I thought Bioshock didn't make any ideas seem stupid or bash them, it taught me that no matter how pure intentions my be, greed for power will allways be there.

 

[scarbunny]

I always thought Bioshock didnt really bash Ayn Rands theories but more the ability of man to live with in a "utopian" sociaty.

Both Socialist and Objectivist theories aim for a utopian society and if followed to the letter they would both be sucesfull, however mans natural desire (wrong word but my brian is slow today) is to strive to be better than his neighbour, and get what ever he can for free.

 

[stompy]

I always thought it was bashing (well, not bashing; more of pointing out the flaws) of Objectivism. It showed the downfall of an Objectivist society, because Rand seems to have not factored in many things when making her philosophy. For example, she forgot children and the general dickheadedness of humanity.

 

[Hey Joe]

I've always thought objectivism to work in its purist form needed a clean slate, unfortunately humanity will never provide one. I didn't think Bioshock bashed objectivism, but it is an easy target.

 

[Spleeni]

I've always thought of Bioshock's message was a rather bleak one; that the government will always find a way to screw you.

Even if the government has no power, there's always some poor chump around the next block who needs your wallet more than you do, and he's willing to convince you so.

 

[Hawgh]

I found it to be along the lines of "everything disintegrates when taken to extremes" or, due to the fact that you only experience the collapse of an entire city from the viewpoint of a few key players: "you're nothing but an unimportant and disposable tool to the people with power"

 

[Eyclonus]

I think Bioshock's portrayal of a society based on Objectivism reflects the natural interpretation of Rand's writings.
While many people will suddenly get all offeneded by that last statement, I can say, with quite a bit of ground to stand on, that like Frederick Taylor, Rand's ideas will never become the reality the author envisioned.

 

[Janus Vesta]

I think it was basically saying that Objectivism won't work because objectivism CAN'T work. There will ALWAYS be someone who will abuse the system and everyone will be worse off. This is exactly what happened in Bioshock when Fontaine tried to take control.

 

[TheKbob]

I'm an engineer, I think in logics. Your economics and politics are silly.

 

[bubbaroark0451]

I think it was basically saying that Objectivism won't work because objectivism CAN'T work. There will ALWAYS be someone who will abuse the system and everyone will be worse off. This is exactly what happened in Bioshock when Fontaine tried to take control.

In objectivism there is no system to take advantage of, and indeed the only problems occurred when Ryan tried to regulate the plasmid industry and took control of the citizens.

 

[implodingMan]

I remember reading an interview where he said that it wasn't specifically about Rand's views, it was more about devoting yourself to an idea to the degree that you begin to lose interest in what is actually happening.

There is a great quote by Andrew Ryan in one of the tapes where he begins to question his complete devotion to his idea.

"Could I have made mistakes? One does not build cities if one is guided by doubt. But can one govern in absolute certainty? I know that my beliefs have elevated me, just as I know that the things I have rejected would have destroyed me. But the city... it is collapsing before my... have I become so convinced by my own beliefs that I have stopped seeing the truth? Perhaps. But Atlas is out there, and he aims to destroy me, and destroy my city. To question is to surrender. I will not question."

Such a good game.

 

[sammyfreak]

I found the most interesting commentary to be about how we view science. One of the main points of Rapture is for scientist to be free from petty morals, but look how that goes. Ken Levine doesnt seem that keen on genetic modification does he?

 

[nokori3byo]

Part of the elegance of Bioshock is that you can foist any number of themes on it and not be mistaken. The reaction it elicits is usually more visceral than intellectual and I don't think Levine's engagement of objectivism is very rigorous--which is probably for the better, given that it's a video game.

The theme that personally I took from it was along the lines of: *Failed Undrewater Metropolises are Creepy as Hell*