Poll: Borderlands 2 Writer debate over twitter about the racist Tiny Tina

Atmos Duality

New member
Mar 3, 2010
8,473
0
0
"Blackface"? Really?

Comparing a fictional little white girl using Urban "African American*" lingo to "Blackface" or Minstrels only demonstrates ignorance of why blackface is actually offensive and harmful to begin with.

Edit: Now that I think about it...
(*I live in Chicago. I've been around plenty of white people who talk the same damn way. If this was racially charged before, it sure as fuck isn't anymore.)
 

Zeldias

New member
Oct 5, 2011
282
0
0
It's the same stupid racist appropriation that happens all the time. So it's racist, but folks are gonna say their typical apologist stuff or moronic arguments ("If you see racism in this, then you are in fact the racist!" as if "He who smelt it, dealt it," is an answer for complex social problems).
 

wrightguy0

New member
Dec 8, 2010
296
0
0
Neverhoodian said:
If I was a black person, I think I would be more offended that people would associate "badonkadonk" and "fine ass lady" as "black-speak."
Exactly! This is just another case of reactionary white idiots making asses of themselves while trying to defend a group of people who don't actually give a fuck.

Captcha: Never gonna give you up

and i thought rickrolling was dead.... ¬_¬
 

bastardofmelbourne

New member
Dec 11, 2012
1,038
0
0
lapan said:
http://www.destructoid.com/borderlands-2-s-tiny-tina-viewed-as-racist-update--243966.phtml&nav=mobile&mode=mobile

The guy who brought this whole thing up got fired/quit his job over this thing apparently.
He's saying he got fired; his employers are saying he quit. According to Sacco, "people" pressured Cryptozoic into firing him. According to Cryptozoic, they told him to stop representing himself as a member of the company (I think they just meant removing mention of Cryptozoic from his twitter profile) and he responded by quitting. He was technically a contractor and not an employee, so Cryptozoic may have been justified in asking him to not represent himself as such.

Considering how gentlemanly he's acted [https://twitter.com/mikesacco/status/297875849741475841] throughout the whole thing, I'm thinking he quit in "protest." The whole thing is quixotic. This guy is just desperate for a crusade to fight.
 

Callate

New member
Dec 5, 2008
5,118
0
0
Y'know, I was thinking about this a bit... and for Tiny Tina to occasionally sound like a kind of stereotypical black gangster actually makes a weird kind of sense.

Firstly, consider something. There is really only one significant black character in Borderlands (correct me if I'm wrong) and certainly only one black character who Tiny Tina has been regularly exposed to: Roland.

You'll note Roland doesn't talk like that. You will also note that Tiny Tina is insane, and insane for very particular reasons: her family was abducted and her parents were tortured to death before her eyes.

Tina has spent the intervening years creating a persona that allows her to deal with a dangerous and hostile world. That persona is a pastiche of a little girl in a state of arrested development, a mad bomber (a fixation on the explosives that allowed her alone to survive her family's abduction), and that gangster- which is probably itself a kind of identification with Roland as a tough, self-reliant person (who has his own problems expressing himself emotionally). She doesn't talk like Roland, but she talks like the sort of badass she imagines Roland to be in the sort of mania-hyped-up-to-11 way she envisions everything.

The one line Tina says in Borderlands 2 without that kind of over-the-top mania may be one of the few in the game that's actually emotionally affecting, largely for its lack of melodrama: "Best tea party ever."
 

Madara XIII

New member
Sep 23, 2010
3,369
0
0
Ickorus said:
Madara XIII said:
Ickorus said:
"This character is racist because she speaks like a black person but isn't"

Oooohh shit, the irony almost hurts.
Indeed it does. And goddamn your Avatar.
How many people have fallen for the idea that's a real bug on their screen?
I've counted at least 50, I collect the PMs a receive about it.

Every time I think about changing my avatar I look at them and decide to keep it. :)
You clever devious bastard you
 

LuckyClover95

New member
Jun 7, 2010
715
0
0
bastardofmelbourne said:
I watched the video in the Kotaku thread. Doesn't seem racist at all. As in, literally zero indication that this was racist. I didn't even twig to the fact that she was using "black" lingo until I read the tweets complaining about it, and even then, so what? What's racist about that?

bananafishtoday said:
Baron von Blitztank said:
Way I see it is that something is only racist if there was genuine hate behind it
No. Intent isn't important; what matters is the actual content. "It wasn't meant to be racist" isn't a valid defense if the work ends up being racist anyway and is right up there with "But some of my best friends are X" in the "shit that don't matter" category of arguments.
I've never really been comfortable with that line of argument. I mean, if you remove the speaker's intention from the assessment of any offending phrase, you're just left with the recipient's perspective. There are a whole stack of problems with that.

Imagine I'm talking to you on the phone. I'm standing at a bank (as in the financial institution) and you're standing on a bank (as in the shore of a river). I say "I'll meet you at the bank," referring to the financial instution I'm standing in front of. The obvious ambiguity is that you don't know which bank I'm referring to. You don't know my location and I haven't elaborated.

The reason why discounting a speaker's intention is problematic is because if you say my intent has no impact on the meaning of the statement, you will always conclude (incorrectly) that I meant the riverbank, just because that's where you're currently standing and it makes the most sense from your perspective. It's not to say you're at fault if you get confused and assume that I was referring to the riverbank - that's because I wasn't specific enough over the phone. But it's incorrect to say that because you thought I was referring to the riverbank, I actually meant the riverbank.

That's what I think of whenever I see someone say "Intent isn't as important as content." You're basically holding the recipient's perspective over that of the sender. That doesn't work. Language is a two-way street. The sender has to send a clear message, and the recipient has to understand it. If you dismiss the sender's intent, you'll always assume I meant the riverbank, and we'll never actually communicate.

When you look at it that way, the "content" of the message isn't actually as relevant as whether or not we both know what the content refers to. If I used a made-up code word, like "badonkadonk," to refer to riverbanks, and you knew that, then when I say "bank" you'd know I meant the financial institution, and when I say "badonkadonk" you'd know I meant the riverbank. The actual content, as in the word "bank," doesn't matter. What matters is that you and I both know what the content means.

Not to mention the fact that recipients can have a whole range of possible reactions to a phrase based on their personal perspective. I mean, you say the developer's intent doesn't matter. You don't think TT was racist, but there are people out there who do. If we've remove the developer's intent from the matter, why is your perspective valued more than that of those guys on Twitter? If whether or not something is racist is determined by how the recipient interprets the content, then its meaning actually depends on the recipient, and we end up with TT being simultaneously racist and not racist depending on who's playing the game. That's absurd.

This turned into a bit of a spiel. Sorry. I'll understand if you don't respond! :/
Hey, I haven't got much to say but I really like the way you've displayed your point!

My personal opinion: I don't think TT is racist, when I was playing I did think about how she was speaking in a 'black' but it never struck me as offensive.
 

Iron Criterion

New member
Feb 4, 2009
1,271
0
0
omega 616 said:
Notice how it's just a bunch of white people being offended and calling racism? "don't worry black people, I will be offended for you!" like if a black person did rise the point it would be ignored.

This writer should ask why it took more than 2 months for this to be a thing.
That's how the world works now I'm afraid. It's what happens when everyone has too much stock in their opinions, but does not want to appear a bigot.

For example, take Django being supposedly racist, four white guys I know were uncomfortable with the movie's depiction of slavery and racism, citing: "it'll offend black people!". Now, I know a black guy and he thought that Django was, first and foremost, a solid tribute to westerns, and secondly, a good overview of slavery. But the first group of friends tried to argue that he was WRONG and SHOULD be offended. Seriously.
 

Zen Toombs

New member
Nov 7, 2011
2,105
0
0
This controversy is silly. I agree with basically everyone here.

Ickorus said:
"This character is racist because she speaks like a black person but isn't"

Oooohh shit, the irony almost hurts.
Exactly.

Off topic: OHGODGETTHEBUGOFFMYSCREENOHDEARGODINHEAVIN.... oh, it's just an avatar.