Poll: Dark souls and the lack of cut-scenes, a positive or negative point ?

[krazykidd]

So i was thinking of cut-scenes in videogames. A great majority of non-indie (read: AAA ) titles have them. Many of them. Dark souls,on the other hand, only has 3. An intro, and two outros,one for each ending ( i didn't play the DLC so i don't know if some was added) . Other games on the other hand have dozens of cut-scenes through out the entire game. It was kind of weird seeing a game lack in game cut-scenes. However, this meant that any video we saw of Dark souls before it was released, was either the Opening intro or in-game, gameplay footage, which for me is a definate plus. I am kind of sick of never seeing actual gameplay footage when a game in announced.

Anways, my question is this : The lack of in game cut-scenes in Dark souls ( or any game for that matter ) is it a positive or negative point?

On one hand they are pretty and helps developpe the story and on the other, we are mearly watching things play out in a medium that is suppose to be interactive.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Frission]

Well there are cut scenes actually. When you fight Seath, Gwyndolin, Sif and Nito for the first time you are treated to a small cut-scene showing them getting ready to murder you.

The thing though is that they're so short that they barely register. They're just a small warning that we should be careful. I like the fact that the cut scenes were so few and far between, since it wouldn't have fit Dark Soul's "style".
You could learn so much more of the world by yourself.

 

[alphamalet]

Depends on the game, but I think I'd rather have a lack of cutscenes than an over-abundance of them. Games stand and fall on their gameplay after all, and who would want to have their gameplay constantly interrupted with needless cutscenes?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

My only beef with cutscenes is when they're too long and too frequent so that it feels like you're essentially linking cutscenes through a minute's worth of gameplay (Kingdom Hearts 2 asphyxiated me in cutscenes). Or when they make a trailer one big cutscene (Arkham Origins). Other than that, I don't much care. You can have your bosses introduced with an in-game cutscene (Shadow of the Colossus), you can have plenty of cutscenes because plot (Resident Evil 4), you can have no cutscenes at all (Half-Life), it's aaaaall good.

 

[hazabaza1]

There are some other cutscenes for the bosses.

But in Dark Souls it's positive. Veeeeeeeeeeery positive. Having a bunch of exposition and watching our character do something rather than doing it would add nothing to the game.

But then again, some games do benefit from the cutscenes/"interactive but not fully playable scenes". Depends on the game.

 

[josemlopes]

It only bothers me when the cutscene is pre-rendered as fuck, like they used a different engine/3D software for it (Batman Arkham Origins or Darksiders) because the moment it goes ingame it looks like shit in comparision.

If the game uses cutscenes or not it basicly depends on what the game is trying to achieve (Half-Life/Metal Gear Solid)

 

[Maxtro]

My only beef with cutscenes is when they're too long and too frequent so that it feels like you're essentially linking cutscenes through a minute's worth of gameplay (Kingdom Hearts 2 asphyxiated me in cutscenes). Or when they make a trailer one big cutscene (Arkham Origins). Other than that, I don't much care. You can have your bosses introduced with an in-game cutscene (Shadow of the Colossus), you can have plenty of cutscenes because plot (Resident Evil 4), you can have no cutscenes at all (Half-Life), it's aaaaall good.

There are also cutscenes for when you leave the asylum as well as leaving Sen's.

The only thing the game doesn't have is cutscenes that are dialog between characters as well as not having any scenes where your character is moving around, without your control. For example, the Metal Gear Solid series is full of cutscenes where Snake is doing some really cool CQC while the player just watches. There is none of that in Dark Souls. Which is fine because while playing Metal Gear, I was always annoyed by how much the actual melee combat sucks in game, but looks awesome in cutscenes.

 

[Windcaler]

Actually there are quite a few more then 3. You have the opening and the two endings. However you also have one almost everytime you transition to a new area (ex. the bat things carrying you up to Anor Londo) and just about every boss has a cutscene of some kind.

IMO games would do much better if they took a bioshock approach where the player can look around an interact as they listen to the exposition. Alternatively it would be nice if they involved the player more like Fallout 3 or Dragon age: origin's conversations

Im not a fan of regular cutscenes because I clearly remember while playing Devil may cry once I thought "I wish the game would let me play this out for myself". Any attempt to dial back cutscenes is something Im all for because games overall just dont know how to handle them well (dark souls being one of the exceptions IMO)

 

[TehCookie]

Indifferent, there are so many good and bad ways to do cutscenes I can't say it's always good or bad. Short 5 second cutscenes annoy me because it's a quick interruption to gameplay. Half-hour cutscenes take to long. Ones where I'm confined or nailed to the floor while listening to someone talk are dull, restricting and can't make use to good camera angles and are my least favorite. Then there's also the spacing between them, where to many or to little can make a game good or bad.

No cutscenes isn't bad, I like it for short gameplay centric games. I like having the cutscenes more as a reward and a time to snack while watch the effect of my exploits.

 

[shrekfan246]

It only bothers me when the cutscene is pre-rendered as fuck, like they used a different engine/3D software for it (Batman Arkham Origins or Darksiders) because the moment it goes ingame it looks like shit in comparision.

By your wording, I can't tell if you mean the pre-rendered cutscene looks terrible in comparison--which I would agree with--or the actual game looks terrible--which I wouldn't, at least on their PC versions. The only time I find pre-rendered cutscenes to be of higher quality than the in-game engine tends to be on titles from Square Enix. Or when it's like old Playstation JRPGs where the actual game is 2D or something, but the teaser movie that plays at the Start Menu is some flashy 3D cutscene.

OT: For Dark Souls it's certainly a positive. For every other game it would depend. There's no right answer, really, and thank Jim for that because otherwise every video game would be exactly the same.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Meh. I don't care either way. As long as the game is good and fun to play, that is all that matters for me.

Totally in agreement here sometimes the cut scene really adds to the game sometimes it detracts it all depends on how they are used. Same goes for pre rendered vs in game cutscenes both have their place and are fine if used appropriately.

 

[KOMega]

Well it depends. What would the point of the cutscene be?

Is it to make my character look badass or cool? Well that wouldn't stick too well with Dark Soul's tone.

Is it to show something murdering me horribly? The game has decided that it will just do that in game rather than a cutscene.

Is it to show me or introduce me to something? Well it does do that, actually. Usually to a few bosses before they fight you.

There isn't much to show in Dark Souls because it's story is about a story that already happened and you arrive late to the party. It's a story more about the environment rather than you as the player/hero.

And if you are going to show the environment, it'd be a lot better to run around IN it rather than look at it behind a glass window on rails (i.e. a cutscene).

 

[Alarien]

It has more to do with the game and the game's intentions than the idea of cut-scenes vs no cut-scenes.

Dark Souls few cut-scenes were understated but pretty awesome. The DLC cut-scene introducing Artorius and the DLC cut-scene for facing Sif (if you defeated Artorius first) were both pretty awesome.

RPG's, as opposed to most games, rely more on exposition and need more cut-scenes to bring their story across.

The trick is to make them reasonably concise, and paced throughout the game in a way that they don't start becoming more of the game than the actual game play.

I'm looking at you Metal Gear Solid IV.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

There are more then you think but I'm guessing you mean narrative heavy cutscenes and not boss intros or trigger activation.

Cutscenes are a tool to be used at the discretion of the user. Some use lots, some use few, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. DS is very minimalistic when it comes to portraying its narrative and that's intentional, so more Cutscenes for that sake aren't necessary.

Unless they want to create a story where, say, you shadow a character who has a more significant role then you, the best way to portray that actively would be to see cutscenes involving them.

But that doesn't seem appropriate for the style DS is going for.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Positive for me. Nice to have to piece info about the world together.
Some times over explaining a world can destroy the magic, see Star Wars medaclorians (spelling?)

Either way, I don't think we should completely remove cut scenes, just its good to mix up the formula

 

[tiredinnuendo]

The thing to remember about Dark Souls is that in addition to the main game, there are several sub-games to be played, if you like. A really big one is learning the lore.

See, this is a world that's kind of moved on. You're not in the middle of the story. You've shown up hundreds of years after the fact and are now putting it together. Or you don't care, and you aren't, and you'll feel like the game was really light on story. Neither option is wrong, but here are some examples of what I'm talking about.

Minor Dark Souls lore spoilers below:

It's stated that "Dark" magic and enchantments could kill the gods. Thus the dark ember is hidden away in a painted world. There is one dark weapon hidden in the game, in a secret room in Anor Londo. In the same room with Havel's armor. Havel the Rock was a bishop of Gwyn who was locked away in a tower for reasons unexplained. Was he a traitor?

Actually, an even better example is the serpents. There are two endings to Dark Souls. One tied to Frampt, one to Kaathe. Many players don't really have any idea what's happening in the endings because the lore is so non-explicit, and that's actually kind of the point. The chosen undead is being manipulated by the serpents to achieve their ends, not his. Neither ending is really all that "good". There's just delaying the inevitable and giving up.

There's lots of stuff like this that most people don't really think about because, as gamers, we're just used to treasure being treasure. But in Dark Souls, so much is a part of the hidden narrative. YouTube Dark Souls Lore and look up EpicNameBro if you have like 6 hours to kill and are interested.

But anyway, the point is that cutscenes which spelled everything out would ruin that sub-game. Dark Souls doesn't spell things out for you. Ever. And so for this title, yes, exposition-heavy cutscenes don't work at all.

- J

 

[Nazulu]

I haven't played Dark Souls, but as long as they explain everything well I wouldn't care. Actually, I reckon cut-scenes should be cut from every game (ha). Unless the game is built around them or is a certain genre that needs them, or even if it can save money I guess.

I'm sure some of you might think I'm crazy, but from what I've seen in past games, there is many different ways to make things clear to the audience.

 

[Yopaz]

Depends on the game, but I think I'd rather have a lack of cutscenes than an over-abundance of them. Games stand and fall on their gameplay after all, and who would want to have their gameplay constantly interrupted with needless cutscenes?

I have to agree that too many is a really bad thing.

OT: I like cut scenes when used wisely, but the lack of it doesn't matter to me. A good game will still be good without. A good game can suffer from cramming too many in. So I am indifferent towards lack of cut scenes. It's better than having the game saturated with them. I grew up in an era where cut scenes were rare so I am not picky about it. If I couldn't stand games without them I wouldn't have continued playing games.

Some games should have as few as possible (if any) and Dark Souls is in that category.