Poll: Death Valley, 1 gallon of water, a family will die no matter what you decide. No whirlpool or bacon

[Paradoxrifts]

By bacon, you do mean break out a couple of rashers from your stash of emergency bacon and cook them on the bonnet of the car, right?

 

[Saulkar]

Since you made it a no-brainer I will have to go with: call for help ASAP. I do not care what someone would think of me because they are stupid for not recognizing the situation. It is clear I could not save them. There were no alternatives.

 

[Angerwing]

Take a swig of water, siphon some of their gas, leave the water with them, wake them up to explain all of this, and ride like a bat out of hell to get assistance.

 

[Basement Cat]

Asses the damage to the engine and add my gallon of water to the radiator, depending how much is gone. Then add my gas to the car, strip extra weight from it, and drive at a slow-ish pace out, to avoid over-consumption of fuel and overheating. Monitor the heat gauge religiously and pray someone else comes along.

If the engine is beyond repair, talk to them, borrow gas, and floor it on my bike to the nearest cell service.

But how will you siphon the gas?

Well... according to various coverage maps Death Valley has decent cell phone reception so I'd just call 911 at the first spot I could, then go back to keep us all alive with my water until the authorities come.

The point of your having no signal was supposed to MOSTLY--but not certainly--eliminate that option from your mind. I won't quibble.

H2O---Only enough for you to be sure of making it out alive.

Not enough gas to drive back.

I'd give them the sweet release of death. *Zsasz cackle*

On another note, I'm normally freaked out by close-up spider pics, but your picture of a spider looks like a strange frog with huge nostrils. A drug sniffing frog, maybe. Just sayin.

Now you've got ME seeing it!!! I may have to change my avatar after this.

A combination between 2 and 6.

Wake them up, give them my water, tell them some basic things they can do to try to last longer while I go and get help (use the car for shade, minimize movement, ration the water). Drive my bike out of the valley and come back with proper assistance asap. None of this half-cocked bike people out nonsense, actual rescue and medical personnel. Also, I don't need to get all the way out of the valley - just need to get to Furnace Creek or Stovepipe Wells.

They aren't just going to flat-out expire in the time it takes me to ride a motorcycle out to get help - the math just doesn't add up. They may end up in a hospital, there may be damage, but outright death seems highly unlikely.

If this is supposed to be a philosophical no-win scenario, you need to come up with a better one.

It isn't. It's supposed to be a nail-biter. It's less a matter of not being able to do at least SOMETHING but of deciding what you would at least TRY to do.

P.S. I don't know how to do italics. The Caps are for emphasis, not yelling.

According to Google maps, the two places farthest from each other with only death valley between them, are the stovepipe wells airport, and the Lone Pine Airport. With approximately 80 miles, which Google estimates to be an hour and a half ride.

Assuming they are at a mid point, between these to places, that means they are, at most, 40 miles, and 45 minutes from civilization.

I split the water, drive for 45 minutes (likely shorter if I go full speed) , and come back in about a hour and a half with aid.

"I don't believe in the no-win scenario." - James T. Kirk

GRRRRR!!! Curse Google Maps for providing you with perfectly well-founded facts!!!

I'm saddened that more people chose 1 than 6. I get that your survival means more than others, but what somebody thinks of you is more important to you than an entire family dying? That's low man.

What people think they'll do and what they would actually do are very often two different things. Take some comfort in that. I do.

The issue with your problem, OP, is that the child would not take nearly as much water to live as the adults, and the fact that I'm a fairly fit 21-year old that could survive far longer without water than the average person (I would imagine).

I'd give my water up on the presumption that I'd have a better chance of making it without water than those four.

I won't fault you for trying. Nor throw up additional illogical road blocks, either.

EDIT: Make that 'illogical additional road blocks'.

Siphoning gas, taking one kid and calling for help ASAP seems like the best bet for me. I couldn't just leave them there. The parents may have been stupid in driving out there without enough supplies, but its not the kids' fault.

I concur with your assessment of the parents, but people do stupid things all the time. I shudder at the memory of some of the risks I took in college.

"Never underestimate people's capacity for stupidity." An (I think) original quote by Me.

No shade? There's shade underneath the car. That is automatically 20 degrees cooler.
Also, I would dig them a shelter underneath the car. Because it's sand, it will be 20 degrees cooler at about 12 inches below the surface. I do not have to waste a lot of energy getting the family atleast cooled off by digging them a shelter underneath the car.

As for no reception, problem sure, but a GPS locator/tracker works anywhere. A prepared person would bring one of them with him. Also, there might be one in the vehicle depending on how new it is.

Because I am not totally an idiot, and it being a bet and all, I would tell my friends and family to come look for me if I do not report in by the evening. Assuming they do what they are told, they will find me in the morning with my GPS locator.

When it gets cooler towards night, I would spend time getting firewood, hoping I'd get lucky and find a wellspring, or one of them for animal ones that may or may not exist.

I sacrifice some gas and their interior to make the fire work.

How will you dig in rock hard sun baked ground? It's not sand out there.

Techno-illiterate as I am, I didn't think of the GPS tracker. But how to get the word out?

Will the family do as they're told when they'll die from dehydration and exposure within two or three hours?

No trees or bushes in Death Valley. No firewood.

Honestly, this choice is crap. Things like this dont happen.

The scenario's designed to place you into a situation where you have to make a shitty call, one way or another.

Read a few real life survival horror stories. Or just look up the movie "Alive".

Wait a minute. (Big post also)

You have enough water for you and only you to be sure of surviving long enough to make it out of Death Valley alive.

So even if I try to rescue the smallest child or try and share my water out I'll likely die before I could get help (assuming that lack of cell phone reception is throughout the whole of the valley.) That is if I don't run out of gas first from even the extra little weight of the child. In this case even if I run out of gas only a few miles away from the nearest rest stop/point of civilisation at the end of the valley I would still probably end up dead in the heat.

And if the comment "No one will ever know" in the poll means no one would connect me to the family, then it seems like no one else would be driving past anytime soon once I do brake down. It also seems to me that if I tried to siphon gas/water from the car or try to rescue a child that there's a real chance at least one of them (or the child) would wake up, which could quickly wake everyone. Or the child might cry out (if its not too dehydrated) when I leave its parents behind, which could also wake people up and would leave them dying in despair at their situation. So it would also be best ( in my opinion) not to wake them up for their sakes as well as mine.

TLDR:
Because the dilemma is so rigged against helping the others (I think) it seems like the only sensible answer would be to drive on and get help ASAP, even if other people/the media would hate me for doing so if they died. I can't think of anything else that could save the others.

Many would condemn you. People who know better would tell you that you did the smartest thing for all of them, given your situation.

The thing that's supposed to bake your noodle is wondering whether you ARE doing the right/smart thing when you're on the spot.

 

[Slayer_2]

But how will you siphon the gas?

Find a hose, if their is one. Or just rip a line off of my bike and use that if not.

 

[Basement Cat]

can we use our mad engineering skills to fix the car with parts of your bike and drive with them all together in their car out of the valley?

CAN you do that in real life? This is You, my fine fellow Escapist.

Do you even have the tools with you to do it? Do the parents who ended up with their family there have the right tools?

Curse myself for not bringing extra water with me when I know I'm going through Death Valley, and wail about how much of an idiot I am for not topping off my gas.
The obvious solution is "Drive on", Burn & Coast as much as possible, and keeping checking for signal on the phone, keeping an eye out for the next mile marker so I can give a rough distance to the authorities.
Request said authorities bring additional water, as I, myself, am dangerously low.
Turn around, and give my statement - because you KNOW this will be possible. Wake one of the adults - the one who looks the least heat-strokey, and provide field triage for the remainder for the victims until the ambulance arrives.
One gallon is more than enough for five people to hold out for a few hours, especially with rationing.

Experts advise adults to drink up to a full gallon of water per hour when they're in the desert to avoid getting a heat stroke.

You don't have enough gas to turn around.

You're correct about driving on. The moral trick is whether you take the chance of grabbing one of the children because the likelihood of the family surviving Further exposure before help arrives is slim to none.

Siphon the petrol, ration the water, save the kids, call for help as soon as in mobile phone range. Simple.

How will you siphon the petrol?

See above for water rationing.

By bacon, you do mean break out a couple of rashers from your stash of emergency bacon and cook them on the bonnet of the car, right?

Mmmmm...bacon...

Since you made it a no-brainer I will have to go with: call for help ASAP. I do not care what someone would think of me because they are stupid for not recognizing the situation. It is clear I could not save them. There were no alternatives.

See above.

Take a swig of water, siphon some of their gas, leave the water with them, wake them up to explain all of this, and ride like a bat out of hell to get assistance.

See above.

OT: Everybody remember that the point of this to put you into a position where you cannot be certain--and "Certain" is the key word--of whether you can save anyone. Not that you CAN'T save anyone, but that you can't be CERTAIN of saving anyone.

Including yourself should you try to help others.

Therein lies the conundrum.

EDIT: *mutters in an undertone* "Now I'm gonna get flamed for having a misguiding title! Rassum-frassum...!"

 

[Xanadu84]

If only one person can have a chance at survival, this is easy. Either parent will likely try to save the other AND the children and fail. Or, they will try to give the child a chance and the child will...be a child and get itself killed.So basically, the question as written is, "Would you like to live or die". Pretty straight forward.

If there is actually a chance of saving a child, then I would save one. The younger with less body mass and need for water. In this situation, the parents would back me up and thank me, and I would avoid any negative view from other people.

I feel like there is a lot of vaugeness in this question, as well as an odd mix of, "Thought experiment, answer in spirit of the question" and "Be clever and find the secret hidden option". So its hard to figure out what the question is really asking. It reminds me of a while ago when I asked a question with really obvious intent about piloting a helicopter to save people from a zombie apocalypse, but every additional passenger increases the odds of the helicopter crashing. And it seemed like everyone either tried to avoid the question so they could make themselves look clever, or complained that it was unrealistic, despite the fact that it was also a hypothetical thought experiment obviously meant to illustrate how you measure moral weight. It's like talking about prisoners dilemma, and having the people your expalining it to starting to discuss a jailbreak.

 

[C F]

This is Death Vally. Remind me again why I am not driving a suitable car with plenty of spare fuel, supplies, and water while rocking out to my sweet bass setup in the dry summer breeze?

I do believe that's beside the point. The point being that this isn't a situation that I have capacity to solve on my own.

I'm not sure how, but if I'm in that situation, I'm getting me and at least someone (if not everyone) else out alive. I've got a God on my side, and I just know this is going to be one of those stories where the one of the survivors (if there's more than one) end up on The 700 Club or something like that.

I'm a man of faith, and there's no way I can solve this without some form of divine intervention. I'll wake them up, give them some water, talk with them, give them a bit of encouragement, and we'll work it out from there. I'll have to be in the situation to know precisely what the right thing is to do, but some form of God-driven miracle would be in the plan. I believe I wouldn't have crossed their paths if it wasn't.



So yeah. Having faith is nice and all that, but if you want to approach this from a cold, logical standpoint, my inability to make a rational decision would doom us all. By all rights, we should die out there. Whether or not we actually would remains to be seen. Sometimes scenarios take routes that defy logic. It's happened plenty of times before.

 

[PZF]

Drive on, their lack of preparedness does not constitute an emergency on my part. There is no excuse for not having enough water when children are involved. I would however try to call 911 first chance I got, or alert someone at the first store I come by.

 

[Thanatos5150]

(Fat-fingering quotes, because the Escapist hates Opera.)

Experts advise adults to drink up to a full gallon of water per hour when they're in the desert to avoid getting a heat stroke.

You don't have enough gas to turn around.

You're correct about driving on. The moral trick is whether you take the chance of grabbing one of the children because the likelihood of the family surviving Further exposure before help arrives is slim to none.

Rationing. Hell, I might even pull a blanket out of a saddlebag and make a bloody lean-to to give the family shade without waking them up. We're working purely from theory here.
Additionally, if I have enough as to make it out, then I have enough gas to drive in a straight line until I get signal, especially since I'm almost definitely getting signal before I reach the midway point of "the Hell out of Dodge Death Valley"
Four bodies waiting patiently in the shade as the sun sets and diurnal heating wanes in a desert are not going to overheat or die of exhaustion or experience heat stroke. I grew up in a desert, and am a military veteran. Heat injuries are things I know how to deal with and avoid. The thing you want to avoid? Exercising in the heat, sweating out what water you have in you. If you're sleeping, you're not sweating. Apply slightly moist rags to foreheads, cut open clothes, wait for the ambulance. Done deal.

And even IF this is all, by some DM fiat author filibuster stroke of the Cruel, twisted Fates all IMPOSSIBLE, I'm still not taking a child with me. If the family survives, I've kidnapped a child. If the family dies, then I've kidnapped a child and given them a crippling case of Survivor's Guilt. Survivor's Guilt is a horrible thing.

 

[Basement Cat]

If only one person can have a chance at survival, this is easy. Either parent will likely try to save the other AND the children and fail. Or, they will try to give the child a chance and the child will...be a child and get itself killed.So basically, the question as written is, "Would you like to live or die". Pretty straight forward.

If there is actually a chance of saving a child, then I would save one. The younger with less body mass and need for water. In this situation, the parents would back me up and thank me, and I would avoid any negative view from other people.

I feel like there is a lot of vaugeness in this question, as well as an odd mix of, "Thought experiment, answer in spirit of the question" and "Be clever and find the secret hidden option". So its hard to figure out what the question is really asking. It reminds me of a while ago when I asked a question with really obvious intent about piloting a helicopter to save people from a zombie apocalypse, but every additional passenger increases the odds of the helicopter crashing. And it seemed like everyone either tried to avoid the question so they could make themselves look clever, or complained that it was unrealistic, despite the fact that it was also a hypothetical thought experiment obviously meant to illustrate how you measure moral weight. It's like talking about prisoners dilemma, and having the people your expalining it to starting to discuss a jailbreak.

It started off as a lark. Initially is was intended to be a smear-of-grey moral/logic puzzle.

The more I answer questions the vaguer it gets, partly from other's answers and partly from my having time to examine the scenario.

I won't throw up 'cover-my-butt' excuses or try to avoid telling you the truth about that.

This is Death Vally. Remind me again why I am not driving a suitable car with plenty of spare fuel, supplies, and water while rocking out to my sweet bass setup in the dry summer breeze?

I do believe that's beside the point. The point being that this isn't a situation that I have capacity to solve on my own.

I'm not sure how, but if I'm in that situation, I'm getting me and at least someone (if not everyone) else out alive. I've got a God on my side, and I just know this is going to be one of those stories where the one of the survivors (if there's more than one) end up on The 700 Club or something like that.

I'm a man of faith, and there's no way I can solve this without some form of divine intervention. I'll wake them up, give them some water, talk with them, give them a bit of encouragement, and we'll work it out from there. I'll have to be in the situation to know precisely what the right thing is to do, but some form of God-driven miracle would be in the plan. I believe I wouldn't have crossed their paths if it wasn't.



So yeah. Having faith is nice and all that, but if you want to approach this from a cold, logical standpoint, my inability to make a rational decision would doom us all. By all rights, we should die out there. Whether or not we actually would remains to be seen. Sometimes scenarios take routes that defy logic. It's happened plenty of times before.

1. You're there because of a dumb bet.

2. Unlike many I don't sneer at folk who have religious faith. My mother is very devout. I'm a mystic.

3. As I realized/admitted to other posters on this page what started out as a black and white scenario evolved as I read answers and dwelled over the problem myself.

4. A quote from me to another poster: "The scenario's designed to place you into a situation where you have to make a shitty call, one way or another." I've realized and admitted that my title is NOW misleading because NOW I realize that there is at least a slim chance for you to save the entire family and not just (at risk to your own life) one child.

The question is "What will YOU do?"

Including not trying.

(Fat-fingering quotes, because the Escapist hates Opera.)

Experts advise adults to drink up to a full gallon of water per hour when they're in the desert to avoid getting a heat stroke.

You don't have enough gas to turn around.

You're correct about driving on. The moral trick is whether you take the chance of grabbing one of the children because the likelihood of the family surviving Further exposure before help arrives is slim to none.

Rationing. Hell, I might even pull a blanket out of a saddlebag and make a bloody lean-to to give the family shade without waking them up. We're working purely from theory here.
Additionally, if I have enough as to make it out, then I have enough gas to drive in a straight line until I get signal, especially since I'm almost definitely getting signal before I reach the midway point of "the Hell out of Dodge Death Valley"
Four bodies waiting patiently in the shade as the sun sets and diurnal heating wanes in a desert are not going to overheat or die of exhaustion or experience heat stroke. I grew up in a desert, and am a military veteran. Heat injuries are things I know how to deal with and avoid. The thing you want to avoid? Exercising in the heat, sweating out what water you have in you. If you're sleeping, you're not sweating. Apply slightly moist rags to foreheads, cut open clothes, wait for the ambulance. Done deal.

And even IF this is all, by some DM fiat author filibuster stroke of the Cruel, twisted Fates all IMPOSSIBLE, I'm still not taking a child with me. If the family survives, I've kidnapped a child. If the family dies, then I've kidnapped a child and given them a crippling case of Survivor's Guilt. Survivor's Guilt is a horrible thing.

1. "Fat-fingering quotes, because the Escapist hates Opera." I don't understand. Do you mean I'm acting like a prima donna? Really?

2. Theory? Yup.

3. I vacationed in the desert when I was much younger and I remember a guide heavily emphasizing the need for all of us to--and this is a quote that I actually remember--"Almost drown ourselves with water." If you know better, and it sounds like you do, then it's a good guess that the guide waxed so emphatic to us in order to prevent us "dumb tourists" from ending up with heat strokes.

4. GRRRR!!! Another poster fronting me with annoying real world facts! There ain't no justice!

5. DM fiat? Not my style.

 

[Loop Stricken]

Stopping helps nobody. I continue on and get help as soon as I can.

 

[Thanatos5150]

1. "Fat-fingering quotes, because the Escapist hates Opera." I don't understand. Do you mean I'm acting like a prima donna? Really?

No, I'm saying whatever engine the Escapist runs on hates the browser I use, and therefore I cannot highlight and delete large amounts of text, so instead of using the quote button to give everybody a handy link, I'm just fat-fingering (Typing it in myself) the quote code, without the constituent link code, because I'm not going to look up the post ID.

On a more personal note: I miss 100+ degree weather. Stupid Massachusetts.