Poll: Did Sega fail Sonic or vice-versa?

Akas

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I've been poring over older Sega games as of late (as a result of getting excited over their upcoming DS releases), and there's several questions that have come up that I'll ask over the course of a few posts. Here's the first one: Did Sega fail Sonic or vice-versa?

Sega, as you may know, has a tainted record, filled with useless new additions (SegaCD anyone?) and bad support (PSO version 1 (free) anyone?). I bring examples of things that Sega has done with all of their new games.
-When's the last time you've seen a "gimmick-free" version of Sonic? Although this is only an opinion, the only good gimmick I've seen was in Sonic 3(not sure?), with the 32x add-on.
-Blast Processing, the hype word for the Genesis, was (again an opinion) the last one it truly had (excluding Segata Sanshiro, which was CLASSIC!). Sonic, by the time it reached the Dreamcast, failed to seem any different or faster than the days of the SNES
-Speaking of the Dreamcast, it was a great system marred by naive assumptions about piracy. Sega screwed up pretty bad with all the iterations after the Genesis.

However, how about their mascot? We can now agree, in this day an age, that video game mascots of yesteryear might not hold up if they came out now, but perhaps Sonic might be part of the problem.

-First of all, Sonic isn't human. This might not have meant much in the beginning, but it leads to a few problems. First, there can't be any hint of romance in any of the games, even G-rated. Mario rescues the princess, he gets a kiss, that's okay, he's a "human plumber". Sonic gets a kiss from anyone in the cast, that leads to furry fanfics (-_-). Secondly, there's that element of suspension of disbelief. If you were a gamer as a child or watched cartoons, at some point you might have wanted to be like Mario. Mario, Megaman, all of your video game heroes were theoretically possible, defeating some monster of an enemy. Even the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were popular, because they liked human things: pizza, skateboarding, funky kung-fu. But Sonic? Sonic moved at speeds you couldn't, looked funky, and the only thing you could relate to was his fascination with chili dogs.

-Secondly, Sonic has probably the lamest cast EVER. Sonic was awesome, tails was understandably a sidekick, and maybe Knuckles was cool as an anti-Sonic. You could even make a case for Amy as a love interest, but see the above point for why I disagree. But c'mon...Big the Cat? Cream and Cheese? Shadow? Rouge? I'm not even getting into the obscurer, one-game-only characters, and already it's getting too convoluted for words. There's a reason why Mario has such a limited cast: it's so that you don't have to try and identify who's who every time.

-Third, Sonic's story was limited until it became convoluted. All video games had a very simple story, of course, but it allowed for immense variation. You knew that Megaman was going to fight towards Dr. Wily, but the eight robot masters and their levels were always different. Mario was the same: Bowser was always the end, but where you went to find him was always different. (Yes, I know there are exceptions, but I'm trying to prove a point). Sonic, though, had a finite limit: he had to stop Eggman/Robotnik from gathering the Emeralds, and eventually would accumulate these for himself. So rather than try and find another mascot for another generation, Sonic's story branched out in so many strange directions. Chaos Emeralds? Chaos (the pets)? Emerl (The robot, not Bam!)? GUN? I'm not even familiar with Sonic lore that much, but already this is getting too complicated.

So, what do you think happened? Most likely it's a combination of both, but do you think that Sonic was a poor mascot, or do you think it was all Sega's fault?
 

gremily

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Since Sega made sonic a good game in the past, and a majority of Sonic Games today suck, Sega failed sonic.
 

Fightbulb

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Sega failed Sonic, but then again, they failed with a lot of things these past 15 years. Some bad decisions, combined with bad luck and then some more bad decisions I suppose. I guess they also had some bad luck with the fact that Sonic games rely on speed, and fast platforming is something that apparently doesn't work in 3D.

Also, they're failing Sonic for the simple reason that they don't seem to listen to their fans or look at reviews. I don't think I've read a single review of a Sonic game from the past 5 years that complimented the game on the colourful cast or the story.
 

Splitter

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Jul 10, 2008
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Hmm, as Sonic himself is awesome, and his first few installments were pretty awesome, he can't be blamed.
Besides it's not his fault sega put him in bad games and surrounded him with crap characters.
They should have kept it down to: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Shadow (for an alternate antagonist), that Silver one actually looked pretty cool so they could have kept him, and maybe a couple more.
But a lot of characters have no relevance to Sonic. It's not just that they're bad characters, they're characters who have no relevance to Sonic and are going through their own story whilst within Sonic's universe.
 

Samurai Goomba

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Playing as Sonic is fun. Pretty much nothing else is any good. How does SEGA not get this? Even though a lot of people thought it was "too fast," I loved Sonic Advance 2 for quite a while, just because it was SO fast.
 
Mar 26, 2008
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Sega have totally failed Sonic and he deserves better.

And by the way, Sonic Adventure 2 on the Dreamcast was a HUGE return to form. Pity everything since then has been arse.
 

slayermaster

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Aug 9, 2008
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omfg! sega murdered sonic, i cant remember wich sonic game i played but it was the n64 (i think?) and it had the chaos chaws things (Spelling please>) i loved that, but recent installments have sucked a big fat cock-sicle
 

Mstrswrd

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Mar 2, 2008
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2 things.

1) I'd say Sega failed Sonic, because Sega makes Sonic. The games are only bad 'cause SegaA makes them like that.

2) The Chaos Emeralds were in the very first Sonic game. Seriously. I don't think they did anything, but they were there, and you could collect them in that freaky ass bonus stage that constantly spins that I still have no idea how to do. And by... either 2 or 3 (can't remember), Sonic goes Super.
 

GloatingSwine

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Programmed_For_Damage said:
Sega have totally failed Sonic and he deserves better.

And by the way, Sonic Adventure 2 on the Dreamcast was a HUGE return to form. Pity everything since then has been arse.
Ironically, I view Sonic Adventure 2 as the place it all started to go wrong. SA2 basically took all of the bad things from SA1 and accentuated them. Level design got more linear and less interesting, instant deathfalls became more prevelant, luck based gaming started to be the rule (especially in Rouge and Knuckles' sections, where your rank is mostly dependent on where the macguffins in the treasure hunt spawn)...

Every subsequent Sonic game identifies everything that was bad about the last one and makes it worse. Only the handheld games are tolerable now.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Sep 6, 2008
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TheNecroswanson said:
Sega murdered Sonic. Pure and simple.
On that note, Sonic Burger is awesome and serves the best chili dogs ever.
Oh man, I just totally realized the irony that Sonic's serves Chili-dogs.

...you don't think...?
 

v3n0mat3

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Jul 30, 2008
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The new Sonic game coming out (not the crappy Wii "Black Knight" game) caught my attention and I thought it was going to be good... until they released the "werewolf Sonic" crap. Then I was about to personally fly over to Japan just to slap the Sonic team execs personally. I can't believe that I am debating whether or not I want to RENT the damn thing!!!
 

dalek sec

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Jul 20, 2008
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Same as everyone has said so far, Sonic was a great game series but Sega mucked it up.
 

ShadeOfRed

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Jan 20, 2008
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I don't know who failed who. All I know is Sonic has been sucking a lot, and Sega can still make a good game if they want. I think they may have failed eachother.
 

Dogeman5

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Mstrswrd said:
2 things.

1) I'd say Sega failed Sonic, because Sega makes Sonic. The games are only bad 'cause SegaA makes them like that.

2) The Chaos Emeralds were in the very first Sonic game. Seriously. I don't think they did anything, but they were there, and you could collect them in that freaky ass bonus stage that constantly spins that I still have no idea how to do. And by... either 2 or 3 (can't remember), Sonic goes Super.
It was the Second game but you couldn't get super Tails

I remember when the Plot was simple: Robotnik wants to rule the world, he takes the 7 emeralds, and you play Sonic or one of his friends to go and steal them back.
 

WhitemageofDOOM

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Sep 8, 2008
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Akas said:
-First of all, Sonic isn't human.
Behold, Xenophobia.
Being non-human in non-earth related fiction really should be a prerequisite and not a rarity, but that's a complaint for another thread.

So, what do you think happened? Most likely it's a combination of both, but do you think that Sonic was a poor mascot, or do you think it was all Sega's fault?
Sonic was a wonderful mascot, he was a colorful cartoon charecter with fun gameplay and a basic story certainly no worse than marios. Funny animals is a tried and true marketing tool towards kids(where the hell do you think furries come from).
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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you can't really say one failed the other

they are both the same thing.

Sega failed Sega Fans by bastardizing Sonic
 
Mar 26, 2008
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TheNecroswanson post=9.75784.880161 said:
Sonic Adventure 2 was probably the most amazing game in Sonic history.
It was Sonic doing what he does best, going somewhere, and fast.
The supporting cast was well played and implemented. Rouge has practically become the only Sonic universe female I wouldn't stab if I saw at a convention.
Every character brought something fun to the game play, even if Rouge did the exact same thing as Knuckles.
Exactly what I thought. Also the boss battles reminded me of some of the classic battles in the original games.
 

cleverlymadeup

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Mar 7, 2008
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was never really a sonic fan but sega did do some very bad things and made some bad business decisions

so they could have made a lot of better games and probly done sonic better