Poll: Do you think Esports should be taken as serious as traditional sports?

[BENZOOKA]

I agree that "sports" is a misnomer. Unfortunately, competitions involving mental agility don't have an over-arching term.

But the term "competitive gaming" will get even less respect than "e-sports". I have no problem taking it as seriously as a group of people chasing a ball around attempting to complete arbitrarily chosen tasks that have been given arbitrary meaning as being significant.

And arbitrary player arbitrarily playing an arbitrary game...

Now that's a very mature way to look at things...

Just because it is not physical does not mean that it does not require a great amount of skill, stamina and agility. And there is a physical component as the speed at which you can physically react to what appears on the screen is important.

E-sports can require a great amount of skill: Yes. That's about all there is to it.

Great amounts of stamina: No. Not in the sense of running a marathon. Not even in the sense of running to the fridge. It requires almost the same kind of mental stamina as playing live poker for 8+ hours in one go. It can be straining mentally, but not physically. It does not require stamina. Unless you blow up everything out of proportions.

Great amounts of agility? No. That's quite the overstatement. Slash shows a great amount of agility when he does a complex guitar solo. Lionel Messi shows a tremendous amount of agility when he dribbles past four world class opponents and makes it looks easy. A high-level competitive gamer shows agility in the same way as someone typing really fast. Of course it requires some agility. You at least have to think and deduce things very quickly and usually there are multiple things to keep in mind and think through at the same time, but that goes to the skill apartment rather than to agility.

And just to put this all into context: I play games a lot. I love competitive gaming. I have played against guys who play at the highest national and continental level. A couple friends do competitive gaming in a serious manner at quite a high level. I've watched several competitive tournament matches live, because of interest. I have nothing against eSports, but it doesn't prevent me to look at these things objectively and unbiased.

 

[Rofl-Mayo]

Yes, but in a different way. Since it's not a physical sport it doesn't really fall into the category of hockey or football. It would probably have to get it's own category made official.

It should get it's own sports-network I say, I would totally watch that. I usually watch the WoW PvP tournament and championships they hold every year. I find it more interesting than hockey, not by much though.

 

[starkiller212]

When enough people watch them to make them at least as profitable as "real sports", they will be taken just as seriously.

That being said, I don't think they are interesting enough to get that kind of audience, maybe because it's harder for non-gamers to appreciate the pros' skills and many gamers would rather just play games themselves. I would never care about it anymore than I care about sports now at least (I don't care at all about sports).

 

[RandV80]

Starcraft pros are at the same level as chess grandmasters.
both fight with their brain, its skill and strategy over physical strength and speed

I gotta strongly disagree with this... I like Starcraft 2 but I don't like it being compared to chess on an intellectual level. Chess is a game about intuitive and deep thinking, the rules are simple and naturaly intelligent and strategic thinker can pick up and dominate almost immediately. Starcraft requires you to play hundreds of games just to fine tune your build orders, macro, and micro skills, before any advanced strategic thinking can set you apart. And when you get there, the actual strategic thinking is more on par with poker than it is chess, while fast APM like tetris. So I'd say a Starcraft pro is equal to a to a poker/tetris hybrid pro, not a chess grandmaster.

That said, for the actual thread topic if Poker can be taken seriously on TV then certainly Starcraft can, though I don't think it will ever be as big as traditional sports. Unless you get a unique environment like Korea, Pro sports just appeal to a more broader crowd while E-sports will have a hard time breaking away from a geek culture.

 

[DanielDeFig]

I don't think anyone should take sorts as seriously as some people seem to. Esports (didn't know that term existed) should be taken as seriously as sports are by non-proffesionals and non-superfans.

 

[Giuglea]

No. Just no. Sports usually involve physical skill, a lot of physical skill. E-sports are more along the lines of Chess. A sport in another category.

Why should feats of the mind be regarded as inferior to feats of the body when the former is vastly more important for 99% of the population in western societies?

I don't understand where you get the "inferior" part; is your insecurity poking out its head?

Just because someone states (correctly) that video games cannot be classified as a "sport" due to their very nature doesn't imply them being less or inferior.

I don't understand why some people feel the need to throw completely baseless accusations against people they know absolutely nothing about. Perhaps their insecurities are poking out of their heads?
I also don't understand why people feel the need to misunderstand the premise of a forum topic. The issue at hand is whether e-sports (notice the "e-" in front (this makes it a different word)) should be taken as seriously as traditional sports. Not whether videogames should be classified as a traditional sport, which would be nonsensical. Refusing to equate the value of e-sports with athletic sports would make e-sports inferior.
A person who would contend such must be very insecure indeed, and should perhaps seek counseling before his insecurities begin poking out of his head.

thank you for reminding people the topic..

 

[omega 616]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

Even the fastest Koreans can't get out of 300, not even past 350 APM. Who do you think these guys are? Watch APM demo if you don't believe me.

I think it should, what is a sport? A made up game that takes many hours of practice to be good at? Does it need to be physical to be considered as a sport?

What would you class speed chess as? You can be a grandmaster in that. What about paint balling? There are tournaments in both of these, like sports. Both pay kind of well, both have sponsors, Paint balling is active and both can be done out doors so why aren't they a sport?

If there not a sport what are they? Hobbies gone to far? I think it would be great for the geeks to be able to considered as good as jocks at sport.

School VS school like in wrestling or football (both kinds) ... even rugby.

I don't see the difference between throwing a ball/hitting a ball to killing a butt load of things in a virtual world.

 

[Giuglea]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

Even the fastest Koreans can't get out of 300, not even past 350 APM. Who do you think these guys are? Watch APM demo if you don't believe me.

I think it should, what is a sport? A made up game that takes many hours of practice to be good at? Does it need to be physical to be considered as a sport?

What would you class speed chess as? You can be a grandmaster in that. What about paint balling? There are tournaments in both of these, like sports. Both pay kind of well, both have sponsors, Paint balling is active and both can be done out doors so why aren't they a sport?

If there not a sport what are they? Hobbies gone to far? I think it would be great for the geeks to be able to considered as good as jocks at sport.

School VS school like in wrestling or football (both kinds) ... even rugby.

I don't see the difference between throwing a ball/hitting a ball to killing a butt load of things in a virtual world.

I actually saw a guy go up to 500 APM for just a second..it was on HDStarcraft `s channel on youtube..I wouldn`t have noticed it but the commentator(HD) was like "ZOOOOMG 500 APM!!!"..

 

[omega 616]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

Even the fastest Koreans can't get out of 300, not even past 350 APM. Who do you think these guys are? Watch APM demo if you don't believe me.

I think it should, what is a sport? A made up game that takes many hours of practice to be good at? Does it need to be physical to be considered as a sport?

What would you class speed chess as? You can be a grandmaster in that. What about paint balling? There are tournaments in both of these, like sports. Both pay kind of well, both have sponsors, Paint balling is active and both can be done out doors so why aren't they a sport?

If there not a sport what are they? Hobbies gone to far? I think it would be great for the geeks to be able to considered as good as jocks at sport.

School VS school like in wrestling or football (both kinds) ... even rugby.

I don't see the difference between throwing a ball/hitting a ball to killing a butt load of things in a virtual world.

I actually saw a guy go up to 500 APM for just a second..it was on HDStarcraft `s channel on youtube..I wouldn`t have noticed it but the commentator(HD) was like "ZOOOOMG 500 APM!!!"..

I think he used an ancient technique called the face smash, it involes just smashing your face into the keyboard in order to sky rocket your APM and look super pro.

Seriously though, even a Korean 300 APM is mostly just, mouse and keyboard spam to look good, watch the APM demo and see how they click "move unit" button about 60 times within an inch square just to boost it some more?

 

[Giuglea]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

Even the fastest Koreans can't get out of 300, not even past 350 APM. Who do you think these guys are? Watch APM demo if you don't believe me.

I think it should, what is a sport? A made up game that takes many hours of practice to be good at? Does it need to be physical to be considered as a sport?

What would you class speed chess as? You can be a grandmaster in that. What about paint balling? There are tournaments in both of these, like sports. Both pay kind of well, both have sponsors, Paint balling is active and both can be done out doors so why aren't they a sport?

If there not a sport what are they? Hobbies gone to far? I think it would be great for the geeks to be able to considered as good as jocks at sport.

School VS school like in wrestling or football (both kinds) ... even rugby.

I don't see the difference between throwing a ball/hitting a ball to killing a butt load of things in a virtual world.

I actually saw a guy go up to 500 APM for just a second..it was on HDStarcraft `s channel on youtube..I wouldn`t have noticed it but the commentator(HD) was like "ZOOOOMG 500 APM!!!"..

I think he used an ancient technique called the face smash, it involes just smashing your face into the keyboard in order to sky rocket your APM and look super pro.

Seriously though, even a Korean 300 APM is mostly just, mouse and keyboard spam to look good, watch the APM demo and see how they click "move unit" button about 60 times within an inch square just to boost it some more?

you are funny..because of that i won`t argue with you..just to know i can reach 200 APM and I`m in low gold league..for koreans over 300 apm is a must have..

 

[Gunner_Guardian]

Yes. We need to stop take "real" sports so seriously.

Ahh man you beat me to it.

But ya I don't think we should take sport as seriously as we do. In the end they are both just games.

 

[omega 616]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

Even the fastest Koreans can't get out of 300, not even past 350 APM. Who do you think these guys are? Watch APM demo if you don't believe me.

I think it should, what is a sport? A made up game that takes many hours of practice to be good at? Does it need to be physical to be considered as a sport?

What would you class speed chess as? You can be a grandmaster in that. What about paint balling? There are tournaments in both of these, like sports. Both pay kind of well, both have sponsors, Paint balling is active and both can be done out doors so why aren't they a sport?

If there not a sport what are they? Hobbies gone to far? I think it would be great for the geeks to be able to considered as good as jocks at sport.

School VS school like in wrestling or football (both kinds) ... even rugby.

I don't see the difference between throwing a ball/hitting a ball to killing a butt load of things in a virtual world.

I actually saw a guy go up to 500 APM for just a second..it was on HDStarcraft `s channel on youtube..I wouldn`t have noticed it but the commentator(HD) was like "ZOOOOMG 500 APM!!!"..

I think he used an ancient technique called the face smash, it involes just smashing your face into the keyboard in order to sky rocket your APM and look super pro.

Seriously though, even a Korean 300 APM is mostly just, mouse and keyboard spam to look good, watch the APM demo and see how they click "move unit" button about 60 times within an inch square just to boost it some more?

you are funny..because of that i won`t argue with you..just to know i can reach 200 APM and I`m in low gold league..for koreans over 300 apm is a must have..

I watch day[9] every day, I am watching him now infact. I know his word isn't final and law, he is a 12 year, comp winning vet and he says about 50/60 APM is enough to do everything you need to do.

Of course if you want to have CRAZY micro, dancing your units round, slicing them to make perfect arcs, keeping your units alive by using small retreats then attacking again etc then it will go up but I think you only need to do that kind of stuff in the upper masters league, at the lower levels I don't think it is that neccerary, it's just trying to do what the pros do.

I agree with day[9] when he says macro is far more important than micro, you should be macro-ing in a huge war, rather than micro-ing.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Take it seriously? Yes, it is hard to do well.
Is it a sport? No! Of course not! You could smoke, be fat and diabetic and do just as well at it.

Darts, golf, poker, bowling, motor racing etc etc - I guess none of those are sports either, right? Sports only count when it's over-paid burly chaps running after balls - I see

OT yeah, there's no reason why video games should be taken less seriously than chess, which is just a board game. Sure, some are better suited than others for competitive, professional play - for example, you'd be hard pressed to find professional Hungry Hungry Hippos tournaments, just as you would struggle to find CnC 3 tournies or bejewelled professionals.

I'm happy with them retaining the 'e-sports' tag though, no desire to join the same bracket as the various ball sports.

Just because it takes skill does not make it a sport.

"sport
a Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

Now motor sports could be an exception/are physical as it takes immense stamina , but in no way, shape, of form, is playing StarCraft for a few hours going to have a physical drain on you...unless your arms are seriously under developed.

 

[Continuity]

Yeah absolutely, its about skill after all, be that starcraft, counterstrike or whatever else. Besides, chess is recognised as a sport isn't it?

I don't think they should be taken seriously at all. The only "e-sport" which I see as having any merit is simulation racing, and even then, only as a stepping stone to actual motorsport, or as training for people who race for a living. Anything else doesn't involve enough physical activity, or, to be brutally honest, enough cognitive activity to be regarded as a sport.

Snob.

 

[Nibblitman]

It's fun, it's a competitive but it really is not as much of a "sport". Sure there are winners and losers but there are winners and losers in a lot of things, by that you could make betting a sport like I lost a bet with my friend the other week so were we playing a sport?

 

[Verlander]

And dude.... everything interactive is hackable.

This statement is ignorant. E-sports participants have themselves and the software they use constantly surveyed the whole time they're playing, and it's very easy to see that they're hacking just by looking at them. No one would be dumb enough to risk getting forever disqualified from an international tournament that they qualified to.

Not as ignorant as the phrase "No one would be dumb enough to risk getting forever disqualified from an international tournament that they qualified to". If you honestly believe that, you need to get out into the open air a bit more and actually meet people-they ain't all honourable. Of course they would cheat, just like professional athletes who push their bodies and lives to the edge to compete, are found to be taking performance enhancing drugs. And THAT'S where sports differ from computer games. Someone may play games enough to compete, but they don't exactly exert any mental or physical attribute to do so

I already told you why what you're saying is bullshit. Professional gaming tournaments aren't held at your own house with your own stuff. Hacking is nigh impossible, that last statement was merely what i thought about the moral implications.

also lol @ no mental attribute to do so. Yeah, being the best in the world at something has nothing to do with any mental acumen, no. Even a retard can do it. So many retards at those tournaments, eh?

I never said that it was held in a home. Dude, people can hack into large businesses through bluetooth, you honestly think that a determined hacker can't get through a tournament? with enough motivation and knowledge, no system is fool proof, no system is immune. End of story. If you want to carry on living in a dream world where that doesn't happen, just ignore that fact. It doesn't make it any less real though.

As for the mental attribute comment, that isn't what I said. Read and understand before you reply, because otherwise you may come off as foolish. I said you didn't need to exert yourself mentally or physically, I didn't say that stupid people could do it (I refuse to join in on your "retard" rant). I maintain that anyone with enough time and drive can play computer games professionally.

 

[Verlander]

I never said that it was held in a home. Dude, people can hack into large businesses through bluetooth, you honestly think that a determined hacker can't get through a tournament? with enough motivation and knowledge, no system is fool proof, no system is immune. End of story. If you want to carry on living in a dream world where that doesn't happen, just ignore that fact. It doesn't make it any less real though.

I'm not saying you can't hack into a computer. I'm saying you can't do that while you are in full view of everyone. The strength of the system doesn't even matter. People are watching you.

I maintain that anyone with enough time and drive can play computer games professionally.

By that logic, anyone with enough time and drive can play any game professionally. Chess, football, you name it. Unless you're crippled or mentally incapacitated, of course.

I never said the player themselves would hack into the game

And yes, that does apply to every sport, but only to a point. Chess is a game which has a tournament. It's not classified as a sport by the dictionary, although contemporary chess tournaments can be considered as organised sports. The worlds chess players are incredibly skilled mathematicians. I would argue that computer games are currently too restrictive to offer the same level of competition as chess however.

As for physical sports, it isn't the same completely, as everyone is born different. There is a noticeable different in these sports depending on genetic makeup. In that respect, no, not everyone can become a leading sports player, regardless of their determination.

In the end, this is all gonna get us nowhere. The question asked for an opinion, and I gave it. I'm going to stand by it, because I know what I believe, even if I can't communicate it too well. Contrary to how it may sound, like I told someone else earlier, I wouldn't object to them eventually gaining the reputation of real sports, but I don't think they should at the moment, nor do I think they deserve to at the moment. Pointing out any flaws that conflict with you or anyone elses opinion, isn't going to help me change mine