Poll: "Don't look at me when I wear skimpy clothes!"

Ionait

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Aug 18, 2008
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I think it's ok, even flattering, if you're discreet about it. Have a glance (or several glances). That's ok. Directly stare, unblinkingly, for almost a minute, and the only thing I can assume is you are LITERALLY undressing with your eyes and letting your imagination run wild, which is super pervy and unacceptable.

And this is for the situation stated above. Cut-off shorts and an exposed bra isn't the worst show (though it's more than I'd let my daughter walk out of the house with!)

Now say, the person is in fishnets, short skirt, tube top, breasts bursting out. Directly staring is fine. The person obviously wants as much attention as possible.

In the first case, the girl is dressing in what's actually a fashion trend right now. In the second case, the person goes out of their way to dress like a harlot. There's a big difference.
 

emeraldrafael

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I just stare at girls who dress like that and when tehy say dont stare at me I embarrass the shit out of them by just shouting that they dont want to be paid attention to in their tiny skirt and low cut shirt showing large amounts of cleavage loud enough for everyone in general vicinity to hear and walk away.

but then again, Im a bit of a dick. And their answer usually isnt good enough when they try to say why they're dressed thatway.
 

Hagi

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Takumashii said:
Sorry about that misquote, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no one felt Martin Luther King or Ghandi were patient at those actual times. People on the other side felt they were trouble makers. And I'm not sure what the OP means when he says she blew up at him, for all we know she could've been spewing profanities and hitting him or she could've been yelling about how much it bothered her. Either way I don't think the blame should be on her at all.
I'm sure they thought they were troublemakers. But I don't think anyone saw them as impatient. Organising rallies, movements and speeches aren't really the signs of impatient men.

And I think she should take the blame for what she did. If she spewed profanities and hit him then she should take the blame for that. If she yelled at him she should take the blame for that. She isn't a child (at least it doesn't sound like it), she's fully capable of making rational decisions and she deserves the consequences, whether good or bad, of those decisions.

Doing it for a reason makes it less bad, but it doesn't magically make it good. If the guy was downright rude, then sure normal thing to blow up at him. None of us are saints, but that still doesn't make blowing up at him a good thing. It's a bad thing, with sufficient reason it may be a completely understandable and minor bad thing. But it won't suddenly become a good thing.

I don't know the specifics. It may be understandable what she did. It may not be. But letting impatience rule your actions isn't ever good or commendable. Not saying that somehow makes her a bad person, good people do bad things at times. But there's no way blowing up at someone should be considered good or faultless. At worst it's extremely rude and offensive and at best it's completely understandable but still bad, in a minor way. But it's just never good.
 

Mafoobula

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Sep 30, 2009
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Scientifically proven fact: The gaze of a human is naturally attracted by three things - Large objects, moving objects, and shiny objects. Cue the low-cut shirt showing off large beglittered cleavage. In high school.
I'm not exactly walking on eggshells when it comes to this kind of subject. Sometimes, a woman will do things to, ah, (air-quote)encourage(air-quote) others to notice her body. Yes, I'll be the first to admit that men occasionally do the same to show off a buff torso/bicep. However, there is no male equivalent for a skirt shorter than mid-thigh or short-shorts so tight they make her walk funny.

I'm not even kidding with the shorts. I've seen it, and my god, my eyes almost fell out of their sockets. Particularly when I noticed they rode up and fit snugly between her, ANYWAY, I absolutely refuse to believe she put those shorts on that morning just because they were super-comfy.
Oh yeah, this was some 10 years ago, in the 8th grade. I'll just leave this can of worms right over here for someone else to get into.
 

Dracowrath

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I always thought it was silly for women to do this. They go out in skimpy clothing, tiny belly shirts and short shorts and then when a guy looks at them for longer than five seconds suddenly he's a pervert. If you don't want guys looking at your goods, cover them the hell up.
 

Blue2

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I understand and respect about "Dressing the way I want to" and "I not a sex object" separated but together, they need to grow up. You got to take the good and the bad. Even as a guy, a women dress "sexy" and yell that people stare is insulting to both genders. Even the whole slutwalk I just killed my mind from the mix messages.

Overall:
Hate to be stared/looked at, dress like everyone else.
Don't mind the stares/looks, Dress different and be Proud.
 

AwkwardTurtle

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Glass Joe the Champ said:
AwkwardTurtle said:
Glass Joe the Champ said:
Snippity Snip
Hm, interesting viewpoint you've brought; I'd love to respond to it.

First, I'll say that while it was fairly hot that day, it wasn't too hot for a t-shirt and shorts and it was pretty clear she wore the outfit at least with the intention of appearing attractive, if not with the intention of attracting attention. She knew she would get yelled at by our directors (and did) for her outfit, and she wouldn't take that risk simply to be a bit cooler. You don't wear lingerie to school to stay cooled off, you just don't.

Secondly, the idea that women will be judged more based on their looks is really a self-fulfilling prophesy. While men can definitely judge women on their appearance, women are generally the ones who overemphasize the importance of looks for themselves and for each other. If a girl wears an outfit that doesn't match well or is tacky, she'll most likely get criticism from other girls, and from her own sense of fashion. In the same vein, a "metrosexual" man can care a lot about his appearance and be just as hurt when he walks outside and gets a reaction from people he doesn't want; it's all about personal mentality, and it can affect both genders.

Men will always judge a women on their body, as women will judge men (and they do; there's a clear difference between this guy [http://gulpdis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/hot-buff-guy-in-jeans.jpg] in women's eyes.) The only difference, as you say, is that men are raised not to care as much what people think about their appearance (but there are exceptions, see metrosexual guy up there). If women decided they didn't care about appearances and wanted to wear comfortable clothes and not wear makeup or anything like that, men would have to suck it up and deal with it. It's only because women perpetuate their own double-standards that men are culturally allowed to treat a woman like a product on display.

So again, if she didn't want people to treat her based on her appearance, she shouldn't have communicated that appearances were crucially important to her. No one was staring at the girls in t-shirts who just wanted to practice, and if those girls were getting attention, they would have a good mind not to care.
So now it's lingerie? I thought it was a sleeveless shirt? I've seen plenty of men and women wearing a sleeveless shirt and I wouldn't classify it as lingerie. How exactly do you KNOW what her intention was on wearing the sleeveless shirt? Did you ask her directly? Can you read minds now? (This part of the argument is completely invalidated on the off chance you did as her so I hope you didn?t! >:3)

How do you figure, that women are the ones that are judging women the most harshly? At the very least it's apparent that men are equal to women if not the more prominent judge. Like I said before, when I've talked to women on this issue, it's the thoughts and looks that men give that they think of the most when it comes to their appearance. Women aren't given the choice to 'not care' about their appearance. Just take a look at society as a whole, a woman's appearance is constantly being examined while a man's appearance is rarely examined by comparison. One example of this is sports, I can't tell you how many times I've seen an article on Yahoo! News about what some female athlete was wearing at some time for some reason. I've never seen an article on what male athletes are wearing. The way that society is set up women are constantly bombarded with images that emphasize the importance of their look while men aren't. ?Who wore it better?? Is that a phrase that sounds familiar? Now what gender do you automatically associate with that phrase? It's most likely women.

You've got to understand that not everything is really an individual choice. Saying that a 'metro sexual' man 'chooses' to care about his appearance seems inaccurate. It's just the style he ended up liking. It's not as if he could simply 'choose' to stop being metro sexual. That would be as unnatural as a gamer 'choosing' to stop playing games because other people feel that it's a bad thing to value.

In the case of women and their appearance they don't (not all of them, but I suppose some might make the conscious decision) 'choose' to be self-conscious of their appearance. This value is forced onto them by everyone. Think of a girl who would do as you say, and 'choose' to stop thinking about their looks completely. Then how would they decide what to wear? By the weather and how comfortable the clothes are, right? Clearly they can't do this without consequence based on the example you've given at the start of this thread. If she by chance decided that it was so hot for her that she wanted to wear a sleeveless shirt, she would HAVE TO BE OGLED. She has no choice in the matter. The reaction of men constantly affect how a girl dresses. If she wants to wear a sleeveless shirt since it's hot, but doesn't want to be ogled either what could she possibly do? She would have to make the choice of not wearing what's comfortable for her, or wearing it and face the stares of men who she doesn't feel comfortable around. Do you see how she's trapped and naturally forced to think about what she can and can't wear?

It isn't simply about personal mentality, that's seriously oversimplifying the issue. There are layers of social structure that influences the way men and women are told to think. I'm not even talking about insults men give to women. It's the looks and so called 'compliments' that men give to women that force them to be self-conscious. You know what guys I know call a girl who doesn't dress the way they think a girl should dress. They say she's ?so not feminine. It's unappealing.? Can you believe that? GUYS think they KNOW what it means to be FEMININE. I've heard plenty of sad stories of girls who were forced to learn the hard way that their appearance would always matter to the men of the world no matter what they themselves thought.

On the other hand women have no say in what men wear. Men have the gift of pretty much absolute freedom in terms of their body and their clothes. How many times has anyone told you that your clothes were out of style/fashion? How many times did people audibly gasp when you took your shirt off to go swimming? Sure I will admit that as time has progressed there has been a bit more examination in the appearance of men, but it's purely with a purpose of what looks good and doesn't. NOT what men are and are not allowed to wear.

If all the girls in the world magically and simultaneously stopped caring about their appearance, you know who would be the first ones to complain and try to restore the status quo? Every single heterosexual male on the planet. You say men would have to suck it up, no they wouldn't. They'd do damn near everything in their power (which is a lot) to change the opinions of women everywhere. All it would take would be one woman. Just one. Then men would once again have control over what women are and are not allowed to wear.

You need to put yourself in their shoes. Imagine if one day it was hot, and you decided to wear shorts, not even thinking about it. Then as you walked down the street strangers started yelling out at you "HEY BOY LOOK AT THOSE SEXY ASS LEGS!" "DAMN I WANNA GET ME SOME OF THAT!" among other things. Imagine if cause you were hot and wanted to wear shorts, when you started talking to your friend all they did was stare at your crotch, not your face. They just looked down and stared at your crotch. Would that be okay for you? Wouldn't you say something? Yeah I think you would. (Either that or you like having people stare at your crotch?) I think that if that's the reaction you got from people, you'd have to make the choice of wearing those shorts again and being comfortable or wearing something else so that you wouldn't have to go through that horrifying experience again. (Trust me I know it's horrifying)

Finally I have to ask once again, you KNOW for a fact that her purpose in wearing the clothes to COMMUNICATE that her appearance was CRUCIALLY important to her? You WATCHED EVERY single pair of eyes during band practice and made sure NO ONE was stealing looks, taking quick glances, or staring at ANY OTHER GIRL? I seriously doubt that those statements of yours are 100% guaranteed facts. I'm sure you think they're true, but they most likely are the absolute whole truth.

Now then, I hope you see the point I'm making. It's because of these reasons that I believe that no matter what a girl is wearing, objectifying her and staring or ogling or whatever you want to call it is sexual harassment and should not continue. If MEN were to stop caring how a woman dresses, only then can she be freed from the constraints that MEN have placed. I'm trying to make a point about the situation that happened in general. I, myself, can't say what the girl's motivation was for wearing what she wore. I don't read minds. All I want is for you (and others) to consider the possibility that a valid opinion and explanation different from yours exists. (Specifically my opinion and explanation xP)

I kind of went on a rant and I'm not sure if I addressed all of your points or not, but if it still doesn?t seem valid, please present more counterarguments or questions. :D

P.S Sorry about the enormous wall of text.
 

pppppppppppppppppp

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AwkwardTurtle said:
So now it's lingerie? I thought it was a sleeveless shirt? I've seen plenty of men and women wearing a sleeveless shirt and I wouldn't classify it as lingerie. How exactly do you KNOW what her intention was on wearing the sleeveless shirt?

(A lot of words)
AHHHHHHH! Too much text! I might read this behemoth later, but I must point out that I said sideless shirt, not sleeveless. This is a sideless shirt:



Now picture that, but with the sides cut lower and a bra underneath instead of a shirt. Also worth pointing out that we were in a block formation, so the guy was parallel to her and presumably looking at her sideways, That's pretty much what we're dealing with here. Feel free to change your argument now that we're on the same page (and if you possibly could, trim down the length to help my ADD :)
 

AwkwardTurtle

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Glass Joe the Champ said:
AHHHHHHH! Too much text. I might read this behemoth later, but I must point out that I said sideless shirt, not sleeveless. This is a sideless shirt:



Now picture that, but with the sides cut lower and a bra underneath instead of a shirt. That's pretty much what we're dealing with here. Feel free to change your argument now that we're on the same page (and if you possibly could, trim down the length to help my ADD :)
Lol my mistake in typing, I knew what you meant though. Still, that's become the norm (at least in my school). I hardly consider it lingerie. :3

Unfortunately no, I cannot shorten the length of my argument. xD A lot of important points needed to be touched on. If you want take your time and read it bit by bit, no reason to read and reply right away. That's what the spaces are for. :3 The important thing is you read it all eventually.^^

Reading gives you knowledge, and everyone knows that KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! :p
 

Yokai

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Oct 31, 2008
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Well, if you start wolf-whistling or whatever, you're an asshat and probably deserve a kick in the nuts. A momentary glance or two, though, is completely harmless and practically involuntary for most straight guys. It's remarkably classless to stare, though. Even aside from the obvious creepiness, you make yourself look like a pathetic shut-in who's never seen a woman before.

Basically, it's very hypocritical to dress in a sexually attractive manner and then get pissed when people take notice. Blame society, I guess, for making the female form something it's a bit surprising to see in public.
 

pppppppppppppppppp

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AwkwardTurtle said:
Lol my mistake in typing, I knew what you meant though. Still, that's become the norm (at least in my school). I hardly consider it lingerie. :3

Unfortunately no, I cannot shorten the length of my argument. xD A lot of important points needed to be touched on. If you want take your time and read it bit by bit, no reason to read and reply right away. That's what the spaces are for. :3 The important thing is you read it all eventually.^^

Reading gives you knowledge, and everyone knows that KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! :p
Uh, I edited my post after you quoted me, but we were in a block formation meaning the guy was standing parallel to her, so I'm assuming he had a pretty clear view, so to speak; and again, our school has a very strict dress code, so she stood out pretty well, but this is just arguing needless specifics.

And about reading your post, I'm gonna be lame and opt out. I have not the time, energy, or dedication to continue this argument, so you win by default. Sorry that your substantial and presumably well formed arguments went to waste.

 

Pegghead

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Aug 4, 2009
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Yell at guys who stare at your bare legs and tummy even in cold weather.

Ogle the shit out of Twilight.

DOUBLE STANDARDS ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE SKY

In all seriousness I've never had much of a problem, I live near the beach so you get used to both bare-skin and staring.
 

Monochrome

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Dec 7, 2010
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gamezombieghgh said:
Pervert: Noun: A person whose sexual behavior is regarded as abnormal and unacceptable.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only guy to check out women when they dress like OP said, so I doubt it's abnormal at all. In fact, by this definition, someone who didn't stare a little would be regarded as a pervert! I guess you could say I perverted the definition of pervert. Yeah. She had no right to go off like that.

:`) <3


This discussion should have ended at this reply.
 

sukotsuto

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A lot of people don't know how to stare without actually looking like you're staring lol. I do this all the time, and nobody notices.

But yeah it's just human nature for someone to stare at something that catches their eye, and this is not a behavior isolated to men alone.
 

FireAza

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SadakoMoose said:
Why are you so sure? The power of creepiness is very strong. Whenever an attractive guy does something creepy like loud whistling, obvious staring or offensive comments/behavior, any shred of physical attractiveness quickly turns to repulsion, regardless of what they look like. Remember Gaston from Beauty and the Beast?
Sadly, a lot of girls seem to find arrogant jackasses like Gaston attractive BECAUSE of the dickish way they act. Well, the ones with daddy issues anyway ;)