Poll: Fake Geek Girl Meme

[Zack Alklazaris]

I remember my wife once told me about the girls at Blizzcon. There was a dancing contest for WoW. They mostly did that blood-elf dance except one... who did the troll dance. The one who did the troll won the contest.

Girls who pretend to be geeks only get so far. They are eyed up like sexual objects, but they are never treasured like the true geeks. So it doesn't bother me that much.

Heres a video:
I think the best part is shes really not that attractive, yet she beat all the "hot" blood-elves. Shows our true priorities when it comes to women I guess.

First of all, in what universe are any of the women in that video considered "not really that attractive"? Secondly, the female troll dance is by Shakira, you know, the hot Columbian singer/dancer famous for "dem hips"?

-shrug- I didn't know I don't generally keep up with singers, actors, etc so I apologize I didn't know. And shes not as attractive compared to the other less geeky girls that were there. Least not by American standards. Not saying thats right way to be I prefer girls with more meat on them, but still. Its a social standard.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Personally I think its a symptom of latent anger on the part of men in this community. girls don't find the stuff we like as interesting as we do, and so we grow to resent them because we feel that they are looking down on us for it. so we become insular and put up walls, and when some girls do try to climb those walls we shoot them down because we're being bratty and childish.

 

[Hoplon]

Nail meet head. Exactly. I can't think of any activity men are free to engage in where they would have to face the same process facing women involved in guy-centric culture.

Really? Because i can think of a half dozen right off the top of my head

- A quilting/knitting club - don't see why.
- A book club that reads anything ever suggested by opera - Opera? Oprah? not even sure why that would be true.
- A baby shower - ...reaching much?
- A women's gym - Your first actual one. And it's unfortunately a good one.
- Girl Guides - Sorry why is a grown man trying to join? the boy scouts wouldn't let him either.
- Strippercise class - I believe that's not true at all.
- Yoga class - totally false.
- Home Economics class at a high school level - Some of us can just rock the kitchen, so fuck you.
- Woman's study at any liberal arts college - Some how I doubt it. does anyone try?
- Any liberal arts college - glib much?

 

[Folio]

I haven't met a man who actually tried to be geeky to be within the group. I usually find men who make fun of cardgames because they don't want to understand words.

With men it's usually the deal that someone is trying to 'outnerd' the others with their 'knowledge'. Men always try to compete, not try to pretend and befriend. So they just begin a discussion or squeeze an obscure fact in a conversation to look like a know-it-all.

 

[Stasisesque]

I remember my wife once told me about the girls at Blizzcon. There was a dancing contest for WoW. They mostly did that blood-elf dance except one... who did the troll dance. The one who did the troll won the contest.

Girls who pretend to be geeks only get so far. They are eyed up like sexual objects, but they are never treasured like the true geeks. So it doesn't bother me that much.

Heres a video:
I think the best part is shes really not that attractive, yet she beat all the "hot" blood-elves. Shows our true priorities when it comes to women I guess.

First of all, in what universe are any of the women in that video considered "not really that attractive"? Secondly, the female troll dance is by Shakira, you know, the hot Columbian singer/dancer famous for "dem hips"?

-shrug- I didn't know I don't generally keep up with singers, actors, etc so I apologize I didn't know. And shes not as attractive compared to the other less geeky girls that were there. Least not by American standards. Not saying thats right way to be I prefer girls with more meat on them, but still. Its a social standard.

Did you watch the video? You don't need to know who Shakira is to see that these women are all gyrating in a very pleasing and provocative fashion. Just because the avatar isn't attractive doesn't mean the girls who are grabbing their asses and shoving their sexy, sexy hips into your face must therefore be in it because they are actual geeks.

Have you seen the Belf dance? It's Britney's Toxic + a horrible mismash of some of her other routines, and it is about 100x less sexy than Shakira's dance. Lots of women perform it, not because it's attention grabbing (as, as I have hinted, Shakira's style of dance is far more in your face, look at my femininity, my hips were made for many many things, walking only being one of them) , but because it is familiar, easy, and more people play Belfs.

Maybe the dancers in that video aren't as attractive as some of the less geeky girls in attendance, I'm sure they're more attractive than some of the others - and vice versa. You're judging based on appearance alone, and using a dance competition (for which there are male and female versions) as your example. It's at best ridiculous and at worst, super insulting.

 

[DoPo]

I can't see the need to take it so seriously, they may not be professional gamers getting paid to play, like the people playing local rugby aren't professional players but they are still rugby players.

Not to go tuatological on you but false analogy is an analogy that is false. A better comparrison would be comparing a guy who kicked a rugby ball once, to a professional athlete.

Your analogy is false. A "gamer" would be somebody whose hobby is playing games. That is nowhere near equivalent to "professional athlete". After all, by definition, sport is way more than a hobby for them.

Furthermore, Rastien talked about playing a game, as in more than once and consistently to an extent. Not launching it one time and leaving it afterwards. That is distinctly different than "a guy who kicked a rugby ball once".

You took his analogy and falsified it. Then called him out on it.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I remember my wife once told me about the girls at Blizzcon. There was a dancing contest for WoW. They mostly did that blood-elf dance except one... who did the troll dance. The one who did the troll won the contest.

Girls who pretend to be geeks only get so far. They are eyed up like sexual objects, but they are never treasured like the true geeks. So it doesn't bother me that much.

Heres a video:
I think the best part is shes really not that attractive, yet she beat all the "hot" blood-elves. Shows our true priorities when it comes to women I guess.

First of all, in what universe are any of the women in that video considered "not really that attractive"? Secondly, the female troll dance is by Shakira, you know, the hot Columbian singer/dancer famous for "dem hips"?

-shrug- I didn't know I don't generally keep up with singers, actors, etc so I apologize I didn't know. And shes not as attractive compared to the other less geeky girls that were there. Least not by American standards. Not saying thats right way to be I prefer girls with more meat on them, but still. Its a social standard.

Did you watch the video? You don't need to know who Shakira is to see that these women are all gyrating in a very pleasing and provocative fashion. Just because the avatar isn't attractive doesn't mean the girls who are grabbing their asses and shoving their sexy, sexy hips into your face must therefore be in it because they are actual geeks.

Have you seen the Belf dance? It's Britney's Toxic + a horrible mismash of some of her other routines, and it is about 100x less sexy than Shakira's dance. Lots of women perform it, not because it's attention grabbing (as, as I have hinted, Shakira's style of dance is far more in your face, look at my femininity, my hips were made for many many things, walking only being one of them) , but because it is familiar, easy, and more people play Belfs.

Maybe the dancers in that video aren't as attractive as some of the less geeky girls in attendance, I'm sure they're more attractive than some of the others - and vice versa. You're judging based on appearance alone, and using a dance competition (for which there are male and female versions) as your example. It's at best ridiculous and at worst, super insulting.

Didn't mean it to be, I guess I shouldn't have an opinion I know so little about. I don't get "sexy dancing" and I generally don't get sexy in general. My wife laughs when women try to grind on me because I dance with them and forget about them. It means nothing to me.

I thought to dance sexy you have to look the social standard of sexy. I didn't mean to imply an assholish way of it and I'm sorry for that.

 

[Vampire cat]

Of all the pointless discussion, this is one I've never had and hope I never will. *tips hat forward* Good day!

 

[Stu35]

And because I'm female, I get the added bonus of "You obviously just do it because you want male attention (i.e., their attention - pretty high opinion of themselves the geek boys imply there, if females will do this whole song and dance just to get at them)". For that reason, the Fake Geek Girl meme pisses me off.

Fair one. Whilst I regularly get accused of not being a proper geek, nobody has been crazy enough to suggest it is because I want the amorous attention of some sweaty fat blokes with poor personal hygiene (i.e the stereotypical geek/nerd/whatever label... Although, having been to a few conventions, I remain convinced that the stereotype is very fairly given, especially on the hygiene front).

So, on that front, women certainly have it quite hard.

 

[Loreley]

@Loreley: no we arent Lorely. The attempt to co-opt the discussion to make it about poor victim women being attacked by those big bad menz again, is tiring. There is no evidence that women who are geeks get this more then men: it may very well be that female pretenders get it more, but thats because they are pretenders, not because they are women.

Frankly it wouldn't suprise me if more female pretenders got this, since type b personality disorders like different flavours of histrioinc personality disorder are disproportionately common on the female side of the equation.

So yeah, if you want to consider this an attack on women, rather then an attack on pretenders & you want it to stop, then how about you take a hand in getting rid of all these pretenders who happen to be female, who show up for no other reason then to co-opt someone elses culture for there own benefit.

Becuase like you said you've seen no fake gamer guys meme & i can tell you why: There is only one sort of fake geek guy. An thats the pretentious hipster geek guy & he has no interest in advertising on the net, he's all about having sex with the insecure artsy, geek chick, at the conventions.

This kind of pretender doesn't need to advertise on the internet, because unlike the huge plethora of fake gamer/geek chicks out there, he requires no wide spread attention. he's in it for the strange, rather then to be the centre of attention.

As for entitlement, its not entitlement to geek check a pretender. Like i said before if some douchebag is walking around saying "hey hey guys, i'm like totally a basketball player & like the biggest backetball fan" & you say "really what team do you go for" & there answer is "the one with all those tall blokes on it," call shenanigans: Same paradigm exists here.

The fact is that the geek check is an age old custom & was developed to identify areas of overlap or hostility between my subset of geekdom & yours. The fact that its also great at identifying pretenders, without the first clue about any aspect of geekdom is just an added bonus.

The things you've said about women here, implying we all try to be victims (because being a victim is so much fun, haven't you heard, it's great when you're attacked!) and are most likely mentally unstable anyway, plus some seriously offensive stuff on page twelve just makes me step away from discussing anything women-related with you, so I end this part of the discussion. I fear it would dissolve into insults pretty soon. I've made my point that in my experience women are targeted more and in a more hurtful manner concerning the Fake Geek topic, and I accept that you don't share that position.

However, I think it's entitlement to geek check anyone. If you want to police geekdom like it's a member's only club, 99 out of 100 times you only make yourself look like an elitist and often alienate fun and friendly people who might be new to the hobby. How will you even do that, hand out checklists? What if they're only into RTS and thus have never played Super Mario? What if they like DC and not Marvel and thus don't know the Avengers' history outside of the movies? They're not real geeks then? This is exempting the question of who the hell cares, anyway. So let them pretend. If they're not really into the hobby, you won't encounter them much in daily fan life anyway and can just go on ignoring them as you would do with any other person who does stupid things for stupid reasons.

 

[minkus_draconus]

Thing A does not equal thing B. I thought Britain had more of this type of show, considering All in the Family is an Americanized version of Till Death Do Us Part, but you really don't seem to know exactly what I'm talking about, nor do you care to. I had Spaced on my netflix instant queue, but I'm probably not going to watch it now, knowing from the expert opinion of an anonymous person on the internet that I'm a moron and wouldn't understand how jokes work.

Spaced is quite good, take it form someone who likes BBT. Strangely my favorite characters are the bike courier Tyres followed by The artist Brian. My favorite out-take from the show is Tyres at the end of a failed take going into rappers delight (for some reason to me it was a moment of awesome). Spaced is worth watching but it isn't just a geek/nerd comedy IMO.

I think the main crime done by producers to BBT is the laugh track. But I am also a fan of silence in movies and in most games I turn down/off the music (especially horror games) because I find it improves the atmosphere (Dead Space games were quite improved by this).

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I guess some see geek as a style type. Glasses and liking star trek doesnt make you a geek. Although if you make lists of mundane star trek stuff, then yes you are a geek.

 

[Davroth]

Using a meme to make a socio-political statement? Genius!!

Meme of the century, 11/10 points.

Oh wait... I didn't notice. In their attempt to make clever commentary on the situation of females in the gaming community, they totally forgot to make it funny... What was the point in making it a meme again? Seems kinda pointless ... :/

Kinda cheapens the message, too. Oh well, maybe next time. Maybe tie in some anti nuclear protests in cat videos. That sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[DrOswald]

Except thats the exact opposite of what we are discussing. This has been brought up so many times now that i can't believe people are still missing it. We ARE NOT actually talking about a male dominated group discriminating against women. We are talking about a a geek dominated group discriminating against pretenders to geekdom. Those geeks can be male & female, as can the pretenders.

Its just that we rush to protect woman from everything in an attempt to make ourselves seem more worthy to women while declaring "we aren't like those nasty mens, pick me, pick me" that we allow that same group to turn an attack on pretenders, into an attack on women.

Actually, we have been talking about males in a male dominated group discriminating against women. Just because that group is specifically a group of geeks makes no difference. Lets look at the OP:

The main idea boils down to this: "...the persisting idea that tells people it's ok to nastily call women out for not being 'authentically geeky' enough. It's basically the idea that you can use that old middle school tactic of calling people 'posers' because they don't adhere to your own particular rules as to what qualifies a 'geek'..."

Is there a male equivalent of this phenomenon? Obviously I've only ever experienced the geek gatekeeper horror from the female side - Do guys ever get quizzed about their geek cred before they're accepted as a 'true' geek? Are there some geek circles which are as hostile to newbie males as they are to females?

The specific question asked is if the "geek gatekeeper" effect is as strong against men as it is against women. In other words: does this male dominated social group discriminate against women? The OP even introduced the thread as "another F&*£@%?#^ thread about gender!"

I happen to firmly believe that there is discrimination against women in this way. There are almost certainly geek women contributing to this gatekeeper imbalance but because we are talking about a historically male dominated group we are also talking about a behavioral patter that was established by males. If their is an imbalance in the "geek gatekeeper" situation then that is largely the fault of males and largely perpetuated by males. Thus we are talking about males in a male dominated group discriminating against women.

 

[Legion]

I happen to firmly believe that there is discrimination against women in this way. There are almost certainly geek women contributing to this gatekeeper imbalance but because we are talking about a historically male dominated group we are also talking about a behavioral patter that was established by males. If their is an imbalance in the "geek gatekeeper" situation then that is largely the fault of males and largely perpetuated by males. Thus we are talking about males in a male dominated group discriminating against women.

Not that I disagree with your argument, but I disagree with the (perceived) conclusion based upon it. In the last part you imply that the discrimination against women is because they are women, as opposed to women just happening to be discriminated against for the same reason that guys are too.

Don't get me wrong, there are sexist arseholes within the 'culture', but saying that is like saying that the night is dark, because there are bigots in every group, of every kind. Geek/Nerd culture is far from unique in this respect.

Of course that doesn't make it right, nor does it make it acceptable, but the way some people word it, they make it sound like geeks/nerds are almost uniquely sexist, as if it is relevant to the culture itself, as opposed to the fact that some people are just not very nice.

Nail meet head. Exactly. I can't think of any activity men are free to engage in where they would have to face the same process facing women involved in guy-centric culture.

You hear about guys feeling nervous about joining certain gym classes (like yoga) out of concern that people might think they are just there to eye up the women who make up the majority of the classes like that.

In all honesty though, I'd say that's more of a perceived feeling rather than a real issue that happens. Or if it does happen, then it is so rare that it's certainly down to an individual with their own problems as opposed to a general prevalent attitude.

 

[DrOswald]

Not that I disagree with your argument, but I disagree with the (perceived) conclusion based upon it. In the last part you imply that the discrimination against women is because they are women, as opposed to women just happening to be discriminated against for the same reason that guys are too.

Don't get me wrong, there are sexist arseholes within the 'culture', but saying that is like saying that the night is dark, because there are bigots in every group, of every kind. Geek/Nerd culture is far from unique in this respect.

Of course that doesn't make it right, nor does it make it acceptable, but the way some people word it, they make it sound like geeks/nerds are almost uniquely sexist, as if it is relevant to the culture itself, as opposed to the fact that some people are just not very nice.

I was actually just pointing out in that post that we were talking about if women were being discriminated against by males in a male dominated group, and that the discussion is around if that is true or not, and why in either case. My post was written with the assumption that it was true because that best illustrated the point that I was trying to make about the discussion.

My reasons for believing that there is discrimination specifically against women in this case comes largely from personal experience. Since I have never documented this, I have no proof to offer you or anyone else that this is the case. I may, in fact, be completely wrong.

My first post in this thread laid out what I think is the largest contributing factor to this discrimination (based, obviously, on the assumption that such discrimination does exist) and how that behavior developed.

I do not believe that geek culture at large is uniquely or especially sexist. I do believe that that the sexism that exists throughout human society at large is present in geek culture and manifests itself in unique ways within geek culture. The same is true of any group in which sexism still exists.

I do not want anyone thinking that I am condemning geek culture. I believe geek culture to be one of the less sexist cultures out there and we as a group are putting forth a massive effort to eliminate sexism. I just don't think we are there yet.

 

[Schadrach]

- A quilting/knitting club - don't see why.
- A book club that reads anything ever suggested by opera - Opera? Oprah? not even sure why that would be true.

In these, it depends on the particular group. Ones who want to be a "girl's club" will engage in something analogous to the "geek check", or simply refuse men membership outright because we value the concept of "women's space" in a way we don't value the concept of "men's space."

- A women's gym - Your first actual one. And it's unfortunately a good one.

Yes, it is.

- Girl Guides - Sorry why is a grown man trying to join? the boy scouts wouldn't let him either.

Girl Guides severely limit the ways men are even permitted to be involved. If you're the father of a Guide, well, then your daughter's involvement with Girl Guides isn't something you can really be fully involved with. Girl Scouts are a bit better in this regard, but not in all areas. Even when permitted, there's a tendency to do something analogous to "gek checking" to try to catch you as either there to try to hook up with female volunteers or to catch you as a pedophile (because males who want to be involved with kids are all pedophiles, so goes the stereotype).

The Boy Scouts in comparison would generally welcome his desire to be involved.

- Home Economics class at a high school level - Some of us can just rock the kitchen, so fuck you.

...and you never got the "must be there to get attention from all the girls" thing? That's kind of a shock. I was in Home Ec in junior high, but most of the guys were, just like most of the girls took shop (they put electives in groups and you had to take the whole group (rotated through one class period throughout the year) to take any of them -- home ec and shop were in the same block, and drafting [by hand] was in it too).


If you'd like another example, there's a party/lunch thing arranged by a group of people before each PAX that's explicitly women only.

 

[LightningBanks]

In my opinionm this is one of those meme's thats just been blown out of proportion. Such as trolling, originally it was a certain way of annoying people, not just saying 'I slept with your mum' is considered trolling.

This particular meme was made to get back at girls such as this (and this is an actual quote)

*girls facebook statuses* OMG IM SUCH A GAMER
Boy: Sweet, looking forward to E3?
Girl: Whats that?
Boy: its a place where everyone shows the latest games
Girl: Sounds sad
Boy: oh...
Girl: Stop talking to me you saddo.

There are also the people who take pictures of themselves with glasses etc, trying to get attention to the fact they 'think' they are nerds because they watched a mainstream Marvel film or something, (When, In my coummunity anyway, most of these girls used to harass me for being a so called 'nerd')
(I say so called because I don't believe in stereotypes, yes I play games more than other people, Im just a guy who likes games, not a nerd, stop labelling me just so you can bully me)

(This particular case also applies to converse and vans shoes, I was called an emo for wearing them a few years ago, whereas now they're trendy and its fine to wear them)

But now its been blown out of proportion to mean almost any girl interested in anything related to the topic.

On a related note, gamer girls are also similar to this. WHILE THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO ALL GIRLS, The amount of times I would be playing a pc game, and a girl would join and always bring her gender into it without any help from anyone else, and I would get ready to disconnect as everyone would stop playing seriously and devote their attention to this fact. Obviously I can understand sometimes your gender comes into the conversation, but does everyone need to know you're a girl as soon as you join a game?

I actually remember a conversation In counter strike go which made me laugh

Girl: Hey, Im a girl
User 1: And?
User 2: I dont care
Girl: Doesn't anyone care?
User 2: no
Girl: ugh, jerks
*Girl has left the game*

NOW I know theres alot of girls out there that are not like this, and I respect you. Infact, to all the girls Ive played with without knowing your gender, I salute you.

Meh, its not just these areas though. It happens throughout life everywhere. Girls get more views on youtube (for games and non game topcis) even covers of songs get more attention if you're a girl. Its just leads back to girls being sexual objects in the media again.

And I hate every part of it. We're supposed to be equal, dam hormones changing this. (shakes fist)

Just a quick disclaimer, some of this is opinion, some of this is explaining the general idea, so sorry if I offend anyone Alot of stuff is taken from personal experience, and due to the size of the post, haven't been able to read everyones reply.

EDIT: I think yahtzee put it best, I can't find where he said it, but he basically said 'Some days I go out, some days I play games. I play games on the bus to pass the time. I may also go out and get drunk, or have a night in with my friends playing games. But I am not a gamer, or geek, I am a guy who plays games, and im a NORMAL person.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Really?

How many physics students do you know who get chosen to go into space, or meet Stan Lee, or avoid being imprisoned for invading Stan Lee's home? Or are frenemies with Wil Wheaton? Or befriend and then seduce their hot, dumb-but-lovable neighbour? Or crash the Mars Rover and get away with it?

TBBT is a good show, but a documentary it is not.

That depends. Do engineering students count?