Poll: Game of Thrones: Red Viper aftermath (no SPOILERS from the BOOK please)

Magmarock

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So after such a massive response to another thread I made, I thought I'd make a follow up thread that's little more direct and simple.

Just a warning, if you haven't seen episodes 8 and 9 yet, you might want to avoid this thread.

I'm also fully aware that this might be a bit early since episode 10 is only a few days away but I want to ask anyway.

So after oberyn martell's tragic death what do you think is going to happen now in terms of plot.

Focusing purely from a plot perspective do you think things will get more interesting in the grand scheme of things or do you think this is a lost opportunity.

Again this thread is less about how you felt about the characters death and more about what you think the future holds.

Also if you've read the book by all means express you opinion, just please keep spoiler details out, and just tell us if you believe things got more interesting as they went on. I'm interested in what both the readers and the viewers think of this one.

On a side note during episode 9 in the battle between the wildlings and the knights watch, I was actually hopping the wildlings would win.
 

TheIronRuler

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This isn't spoilers - casting lists for the next season make us believe that a large portion of it will be happening in Dorne, as certain roles for characters in Dorne itself are being filled. It means that the death of a certain character will influence the politics there, and bring another aspect of the seven kingdoms into the series. Nice.
 

Scarim Coral

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I assuming it properly open the door to something more itneresting. Ok since Oberyn death wasn't political (it was personal) but since this is GOT we're talking about, I can assume House Martell will not take the prince death so lightly.
 

Magmarock

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Scarim Coral said:
I assuming it properly open the door to something more itneresting. Ok since Oberyn death wasn't political (it was personal) but since this is GOT we're talking about, I can assume House Martell will not take the prince death so lightly.
The reaction of House Martell is intriguing, but nice it was trial by combat I'd just assume there's not much they can really do.

I also can't help but shake the feeling that
Tywin wanted Oberyn to win despite his expression during the battle.
It would mean his son not dieing and maybe getting the council he wanted.

not entirely sure what tywin wants.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Tywin wants to ignore his children's faults and just wants them to do as he needs to preserve the Lannister dynasty. He was perfectly willing to let Tyrion live and go to the Wall, thus removing him from power and regaining control over Jaime.
 

Magmarock

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Damn it there's not really much of a response. I really want to know what people think.

I'm actually thinking of making a youtube video about this too, but I'm not sure yet.
 

DJjaffacake

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Oberyn's death does lead us into more plots and schemes, mainly in Dorne, but I think had he won the duel the result might have been more interesting, mainly because it would have kept the plot moving along at a somewhat reasonable pace. "The brother of the Prince of Dorne accuses Tywin Lannister of having his sister murdered and gets away with it," allows more drama than, "the brother of the Prince of Dorne is killed in a duel."

On a side note, the show handled the fight at Castle Black very poorly. It bears almost no resemblance to what happened in the books. Giants with bows? Really?
 

Silvanus

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DJjaffacake said:
On a side note, the show handled the fight at Castle Black very poorly. It bears almost no resemblance to what happened in the books. Giants with bows? Really?
I bemoan quite a few of the changes from book to show, but this wasn't one of the ones that upset me. I thought that moment was damn awesome.

What's wrong with giants with bows?
 

TheIronRuler

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Silvanus said:
DJjaffacake said:
On a side note, the show handled the fight at Castle Black very poorly. It bears almost no resemblance to what happened in the books. Giants with bows? Really?
I bemoan quite a few of the changes from book to show, but this wasn't one of the ones that upset me. I thought that moment was damn awesome.

What's wrong with giants with bows?
.
Because their shtick is that they're massive mammoth-riding behemoths that can club a fortress to pieces... They're aren't exactly archer material... They're more efficient throwing boulders than shooting arrows.
 
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I can't really give much of a response here on account of being some way through A Feast for Crows. However, everyone should remember that this is
the death of one of the princes of House Martell
and that therefore the ramifications are potentially enormous
considering the alliance between the Dornish and the Lannisters
. I think things get more interesting because of the way the fight turned out.
 

Malty Milk Whistle

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Oberyn's death was entirely necessary to kickstart all the Dornish shenanigans, so it's a good thing overall. If it hadn't there wouldn't be that much of an excuse to expand to Dorne (which is so starkly different from the rest of Westeros) and all the interesting characters, developments and plot points that it brings.
Oberyn's death also brings his big brother into perspective, who in my mind is a much better character (along with his kickass bodyguard) than Oberyn.
 

DJjaffacake

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Silvanus said:
DJjaffacake said:
On a side note, the show handled the fight at Castle Black very poorly. It bears almost no resemblance to what happened in the books. Giants with bows? Really?
I bemoan quite a few of the changes from book to show, but this wasn't one of the ones that upset me. I thought that moment was damn awesome.

What's wrong with giants with bows?
Well there are two main problems with it. The first is that a bow that large is ridiculous. No wood is that bendy, and for the string to be strong enough to be pulled back so far it would have to be as thick as rope, which would render it useless as a bowstring. It's plausible that the bow was supposed to be made out of mammoth horn, not wood, which could potentially serve as the actual bow part, but that still leaves us with the string problem.

The second problem is that the book makes it a point that the men on top of the Wall are in no danger from archery, which makes giving giants bows a glaring diversion from the books, and makes it obvious that the change was made to lazily recover some of the tension that they lost by changing the attack from behind the wall.
 

Silvanus

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TheIronRuler said:
Because their shtick is that they're massive mammoth-riding behemoths that can club a fortress to pieces... They're aren't exactly archer material... They're more efficient throwing boulders than shooting arrows.
They're tremendously large and powerful; it seems logical they could create huge bows and fire over far distances. We read nothing of them that suggests they wouldn't be able to fire a gigantic arrow.

It's a good approach to reach the heights of the Wall. Throwing boulders and hitting things with clubs is useless if your opponent is 700 feet higher than you.

DJjaffacake said:
Well there are two main problems with it. The first is that a bow that large is ridiculous. No wood is that bendy, and for the string to be strong enough to be pulled back so far it would have to be as thick as rope, which would render it useless as a bowstring. It's plausible that the bow was supposed to be made out of mammoth horn, not wood, which could potentially serve as the actual bow part, but that still leaves us with the string problem.
I can see this as a valid problem, but fantasy settings routinely invent fictional materials. There are bows made of Dragonbone and fictional woods in the books IIRC, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine a material that may serve as a bowstring.

The awesomeness of that Night's Watchman's death made it forgivable, to me. There are plenty of other more egregious divergences to annoy me.
 

J Tyran

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Well my opinion of it without any book spoilers would be that Oberyn Martell is a Prince of Dorne, his brother is ageing, frail and unwell and mostly sticks to political matters at a distance with his brother acting as his roaming "avatar" and representative as he trusted him without question and like anywhere else in Westeros loyalty and political trust is a rare and precious commodity in Dorne. Doran has his own Children that would be heirs before Oberyn, you can imagine what risks might be inherent in a situation like that and Dorne has a history of assassinations, poisionings and power grabs yet Doran never had any qualms about placing his trust in Oberyn and it was certainly not misplaced as the Viper reciprocated the trust and devotion totally. Do you think a brother with a bond like that will shrug his shoulders and be pragmatic about his death?

He is also hugely popular back home and his brother and his own daughters, known as the Sandsnakes and the noble houses in Dorne share his anger at the murder of Elia. He brutally died at the hands of a well known Lannister toady and sworn man, that sworn man also confessed to the murder of Elia in front of the entire Royal court as well. Even though he never said who gave the orders everyone knows it was Tywin Lannister that sacked Kings Landing and took the Red Keep, Ser Gregor was there at Kings Landing at Tywins command and was with him when Tywin seized the Red Keep.

How couldn't all this expand the plot?

Even though the TV show hasn't made this clear its not really a spoiler but I will tag it anyway, Oberyns Daughters are one hell of group too. Between them you have assassins, fighters, smart political intrigue navigators with extensive training in courtly etiquette and politics. Oh and Oberyn trained each one of them how to fight personally and was the first person to give each their first blade.

Think about this too, Dorne and the Martells stayed loyal to the Targaryen Dynasty during and after Roberts rebellion and even though they bent the knee after Robert won they where never really Roberts. They just bent the knee and swore the absolute minimum of oaths and pledges they had too in order to avoid war, it took Jon Arryn months of running around Dorne and talking people out of forming plots and persuading the nobles to get even that. Even then they completely isolated themselves from the political affairs of the realm at large and just sat down there waiting, watching until Tyrion reached out to try and get them on side during the War of the Five Kings. So not a spoiler for anything outside the show, the show made all this clear but its something to think about and consider in context of everything else thats going on.
 

MisterGobbles

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I really don't think Oberyn Martel would have played a role that was too interesting in the conflicts to come. He was too antagonistic to the Lannisters in their own turf for them to let him live or stay around for much longer, even if he had (especially if he had, actually) won against the Mountain.

Dorne and the Lannisters have a very sour relationship at the moment anyway, so you can imagine the sort of ramifications that might have.
 

Magmarock

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MisterGobbles said:
I really don't think Oberyn Martel would have played a role that was too interesting in the conflicts to come. He was too antagonistic to the Lannisters in their own turf for them to let him live or stay around for much longer, even if he had (especially if he had, actually) won against the Mountain.

Dorne and the Lannisters have a very sour relationship at the moment anyway, so you can imagine the sort of ramifications that might have.
True, but here's where I disagree. I think having Obreyn die after wining the battle against the mountain would increase the tension and provided a satisfaction result for the audience.