Poll: Gay Gamers - What do you want?

WendelI

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i want good well written characters, if the writer has nothing to say about the gay life style he shouldn't shoe horn it in. In the end i want to shoot some aliens, I don't need them to be gay aliens to hate them more.
 

happyninja42

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8bitOwl said:
nomotog said:
Ya it's about verity. My personal want is a cyberpunk game that kind of spins around LGTB themes.
I don't know why but the moment I read this, I felt I need it in my life...
Well, a cybernetic setting would make gender swapping a lot easier to accomplish I think. xD

Sorry I'm just thinking of some really silly porno-esque parodies of cyberpunk themes, but with cybernetic penises that have hydraulic pistons, and cybernetic vaginas with built in rumble packs. This image amuses me to no end. xD
 

Something Amyss

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Silvanus said:
This isn't an expectation that every game must contain any particular thing (which I would have thought should be obvious); this is an issue of trends, not individual examples.
Basically, this. There's no one solution, or one true answer. It's simply a matter of an overall picture.

Personally, I couldn't give a damn if gays are well-written, because game characters are not well-written.

Vault101 said:
I could list the agenda but it would be too long
No no no, Vault. You don't mention the agenda in mixed company!

Vigormortis said:
Especially when you make a point of telling us, "Look! Gay characters in our games! My, how inclusive and progressive we are!"
When did Bioware do this?
 

happyninja42

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Silvanus said:
This isn't an expectation that every game must contain any particular thing (which I would have thought should be obvious); this is an issue of trends, not individual examples.
Basically, this. There's no one solution, or one true answer. It's simply a matter of an overall picture.
And as I told Silvanus, I never suggested that every game be LGBT oriented, I simply asked what type of game you wanted to see more of.
 

Something Amyss

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Happyninja42 said:
And as I told Silvanus, I never suggested that every game be LGBT oriented, I simply asked what type of game you wanted to see more of.
And unless I mentioned you directly, you have no reason to pull the "and as I told Silvanus" crap. I didn't claim you said anything specific nor make any claims about you. So do me a favour and knock off the attitude.
 

happyninja42

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Happyninja42 said:
And as I told Silvanus, I never suggested that every game be LGBT oriented, I simply asked what type of game you wanted to see more of.
And unless I mentioned you directly, you have no reason to pull the "and as I told Silvanus" crap. I didn't claim you said anything specific nor make any claims about you. So do me a favour and knock off the attitude.
Why don't you do me a favor and do the same? I wasn't giving you attitude, I was clarifying the point. Answering a question that isn't actually presented doesn't really help anything.

It's like me asking a room full of people "What dessert would you prefer, apple pie or cherry pie?" And then someone in the crowd responds "I don't think the answer is to turn all desserts into apple pie." Nobody ever even suggested that, so it has no bearing on the subject.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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8bitOwl said:
nomotog said:
Ya it's about verity. My personal want is a cyberpunk game that kind of spins around LGTB themes.
I don't know why but the moment I read this, I felt I need it in my life...
I kind of think that transgender and transhumanism have a interesting fit with each other. Was I the only one who saw a kind of body dimorphia theme in DX:HR. You know "I did ask for this." Stuck in a body that isn't you.

Happyninja42 said:
8bitOwl said:
nomotog said:
Ya it's about verity. My personal want is a cyberpunk game that kind of spins around LGTB themes.
I don't know why but the moment I read this, I felt I need it in my life...
Well, a cybernetic setting would make gender swapping a lot easier to accomplish I think. xD

Sorry I'm just thinking of some really silly porno-esque parodies of cyberpunk themes, but with cybernetic penises that have hydraulic pistons, and cybernetic vaginas with built in rumble packs. This image amuses me to no end. xD
That is maybe a little plain when you think about it. You can do more with cyberpunk then add vibration. You can date an AI. It's a relationship without sex or with sex that is totally different. What if your a cyborg and like Adam (DX:HR) your hips are robotic? Maybe your partner is a software designer and wants to use a USB in bed? There is maybe too much you can do with the concept of sex and relationships in a cyberpunk world.
 
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I'd like to see more LGBT+ characters. I guess it's still more important that the characters are well written and all that, and a game doesn't need gay characters for me to enjoy it, but I just like to see the representation and all that. I personally see nothing wrong with how Bioware does things, because all of the romances feel a little robotic, so why not throw in a few gay characters? It doesn't hurt anything.
 

CitizenM

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I can only speak for myself and the people I know well, but my hope for LGBT representation is the same as it has always been for both us and other under-represented groups like women, minorities, etc. That "hope" is:

An acknowledgement that we exist in popular culture
That we are not treated as a disposable trend
That we are painted as broadly as possible

Nothing is more harmful to a person individually or to a nation collectively than for gays to be denied representation within the culture of a society. Much like it was 20 years ago, when to look at popular culture, one wouldn't even know gays existed at all.

On top of that, it sure would be nice to have heroes and role models like straight white males enjoy. These depictions are part of how society grants certain groups of people confidence. As North American culture stands now, society caters to straight white males by granting them the vast majority of confidence through powerful depictions in popular music, movies, literature and video games. Simultaneously, current culture also shields straight white males from causes of insecurity. These two reasons are why we see millions of depictions of female nudity all across popular culture but simultaneously there is nary a penis in sight and never an erection outside of porn.

It would be great if - as a gay man - I had plenty of role models in my popular culture and if my insecurities were shielded...or at the very least empathized :)

Specifically for video games, I want:

An acknowledgement that I am a valid gamer and am allowed gay options within ANY customizable system
Video games from this point forward - and forever - to continue to represent me and include me
As broad a representation of me as possible, from the evil Baron Vladimir Harkonnen to plentiful examples of the heroic Commander Sheppard
 

JohnFei

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Agree with everyone on Bioware. Good god the tokenism and the cringe writing. They used to be ok, DAO's treatment was subtle and decent. But then they started employing tumblr.

Some games from Japan outright monetizes LGBT for consumption by the mostly hetero audience. I'm split on that because you can view it as exploitation but at the same time it's also somewhat normalizing. Absolutely everyone can be sexualized in Japanese games/media, and I find that concept actually pretty cool.
 

Something Amyss

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Happyninja42 said:
I wasn't giving you attitude, I was clarifying the point.
A point which had nothing to do with you. I saw what you had "already explained," and it had zero relevance. But sure, okay. We'll make the thread about you rather than answering your question. Sounds great.
 

Something Amyss

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CitizenM said:
An acknowledgement that I am a valid gamer and am allowed gay options within ANY customizable system
How does one actually do this, though? It's easy to include, say, skin tone or sex in any customisable system, but sexuality usually isn't a visual thing.

Unless you're a bad guy in a Disney movie.

JohnFei said:
Some games from Japan outright monetizes LGBT for consumption by the mostly hetero audience. I'm split on that because you can view it as exploitation but at the same time it's also somewhat normalizing. Absolutely everyone can be sexualized in Japanese games/media, and I find that concept actually pretty cool.
I'm always torn on that, but basically it's the only routine source of LGBT individuals in games.
 

EyeReaper

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I voted for B, Mostly because I have plenty of games that feature gay love. Sure, they are all also porn games, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Really, I just want more games with the option to be gay. My dream game is like a combination of the newer Personas and Bioware, cuz, seriously guys who've played Persona 4, who hasn't wanted the option to touch butts with Kanji? I mean, I guess that would kinda ruin the whole "He may or may not be into guys it's up for interpretation" nonsense, but still. It always seems to be that whenever you can choose your character's sexuality, it's always in games where it really doesn't come in to play, like the Fable series.

Honestly, I think Dragon Age 2 was actually really good about this. None of your companions were gay, straight, or otherwise, instead everyone was just Hawke-sexual (Outside of Varric and Aveline, the two best characters) I feel like assigning distinct sexualities to characters in games like that just an unnecessary limiter. It's really just the best of both worlds for everyone. Those who don't want gay people in games, just don't pursue romance with the dudes in your party, and everyone else can be having a good time flaming it up more than a level 12 Pyromancer.
 

CitizenM

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Zachary Amaranth said:
CitizenM said:
An acknowledgement that I am a valid gamer and am allowed gay options within ANY customizable system
How does one actually do this, though? It's easy to include, say, skin tone or sex in any customisable system, but sexuality usually isn't a visual thing.

Unless you're a bad guy in a Disney movie.
I mean no offense, but this thinking is exactly what marginalizes people like me. There's a thousand video games that allow customizing female characters using revealing, sexually provocative attire. But men? I'm gay; I adore men sexually. How many video games cater to this desire in the same way they do for straight males that adore sexualized females? Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating for more objectification. My point is to focus sharply on an aspect of popular culture that most of the straight world takes for granted.

I think Sunset Overdrive is one of the first major video game releases I've seen catering to gay male and straight female sexuality; you can dress the male characters in sexually provocative attire just like you can with the female characters. But it's the exception and not the rule.

Personally, I'm not concerned with spotlighting homosexuality artificially into every video game. What does concern me is when a game system featuring detail such as customized sexuality finds gay is left out. Fans justifiably decried Aliens: Colonial Marines for lacking playable female characters, a franchise built upon strong female leads. Ten to fifteen years ago this sort of ommission would have been unthinkable. Today, this type of casual indifference to women is "normal".

The world of today has made gay rights a priority in our societies, our laws and our popular culture. The last ten years in particular has seen an explosion of gay characters in film, TV, music and even the most socially backward industry of video games. But you can already see people posting in this very thread that view gay characters as overexposed. We've only begun progress for gays in video games and already some are "getting tired of it" as if being gay is not sexuality, but some kind of damned trend. A trend that some are only too happy to see end so we can all get back to the status quo :(
 

IronSkape

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The Lunatic said:
As a homosexual, what do "I" want?

Well, less heavy-handed Bioware stuff would be a nice start.

Bioware stuff is pretty cringe-worthy and I've always felt it was more tokenism than much else. The fact they basically use it as PR is also pretty eye-rolling.

For me, I just want games that have good characters. If they happen to be gay, then, that's neat, but, making almost all of your cast have leanings of homosexuality is just trying too hard and seems disingenuous.

I'm not asking for the main characters of games to be homosexual, I'm not asking for even supporting characters to be homosexual, it's such a small percentage of the population that it's pretty unlikely it'd happen, but, sure, it's nice if you do.

However, what I am asking for is just acknowledgement. If you have an open world game, and somewhere in that game, there's an NPC who passingly mentions he or she is gay, then that's completely fine with me. You accept that homosexuality exists and that's really all I want.

In a remarkable display of diversity of opinions within the gay community, I will say I vehemently disagree with this point. Hooray for heterogeneity among the homosexuals! I'm also gay, if there was any question.

I love the inclusion of LGBT people in the BioWare games. I'm playing through Dragon Age: Inquisition right now, and I can't think of a better way to include gay and transgendered people in media in general, let alone games. Dorian, for example, is upfront about his sexuality, and it's a major part of what defines him as a character without being his ONLY characteristic.

It kind of amazes me that you think that four out of eight romance options who aren't exclusively straight (2 are gay, 2 are bisexual) is too many to seem like....what, exactly? A gathering of people that could actually happen?

If you think the gay content in BioWare games is "heavy-handed" and "cringe-worthy", there's a good chance you're just not over the newness of a gay character in a AAA game.* The writing is, in my opinion, very much up to BioWare standards and is no more forced than a romance with a humanoid bird/insect hybrid.

*Note to straight people: we watch and play the same stuff you do. When we see gay characters in media, they're just as novel and "shocking" to us as they are to you.


Vigormortis said:
It's always felt like an incredible disservice to the LGBT community in how Bioware handles the 'relationships' in it's games, as well as the related marketing.

Tokenism is NOT inclusion, Bioware. Especially when you make a point of telling us, "Look! Gay characters in our games! My, how inclusive and progressive we are!"

For me, I just want games that have good characters. If they happen to be gay, then, that's neat, but, making almost all of your cast have leanings of homosexuality is just trying too hard and seems disingenuous.
I dunno. For me it would depend on the context of the game. Or, more to the point, the story. But I kind of agree.

Still, if a dev wants to make a COD-clone with an all-gay cast of main characters, I'd say, "Huh. That's cool. The character design for the brunette over there is kinda cute. Can I have my sniper rifle now?"

However, what I am asking for is just acknowledgement. If you have an open world game, and somewhere in that game, there's an NPC who passingly mentions he or she is gay, then that's completely fine with me. You accept that homosexuality exists and that's really all I want.
This is how I feel, in a nut shell.

Openly accepting homosexuality as a "thing[footnote]And by 'thing' I mean a natural part of life ostensibly no different than heterosexuality.[/footnote]" is far more inclusive and progressive-thinking than just adding token gay characters to the main cast.
What exactly is "tokenism" in your opinion?

I don't understand how I'm supposed to be offended by the inclusion of gay characters in BioWare games. There are aliens and wizards and people with wood-varnished hair in BioWare games, I don't think that gay people are an outlandish concept in the universes they create.

Hell, I hate the entire concept against tokenism of minority characters. It implies that straight, white, and male is "default", instead of just one of several options to base your character upon, and that there must be a reason to deviate from this template. And that reason, apparently, can't be "just because".

We play BioWare games because we love the characters they create. They're complex, developed characters with personalities that resonate with us because they could be real people. These are games in which combat, gameplay, and even plot take a backseat to exploring the people within the universe put before us.

If the inclusion of a small number of people who don't gag at the thought of their genitals mashing against similar-looking genitals in a game that thrives on the diversity of its cast feels "token" to you, I don't know what the hell you'd consider appropriate.


**Edit, fixed typo
 

Something Amyss

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CitizenM said:
I mean no offense, but this thinking is exactly what marginalizes people like me.
Yes, I'm not only bisexual but trans. Tell me how I'm marginalising people "like you."

I'm not sure how I wouldn't take offense at this.

How many video games cater to this desire in the same way they do for straight males that adore sexualized females?
What does this have to do with customisation?

I think Sunset Overdrive is one of the first major video game releases I've seen catering to gay male and straight female sexuality; you can dress the male characters in sexually provocative attire just like you can with the female characters. But it's the exception and not the rule.
This sounds like exactly what games like the Saints Row series have been doing for years.

But I don't even know why you'd presume that I would think this is what you meant when you were talking about displaying sexuality. I honestly don't think of displaying my sexuality in terms of whether I'd fap to my avatar, and I'm not sure that would be the train of thought for many. The fact that I talked about it in comparison to sex should have been a hint there.

Fans justifiably decried Aliens: Colonial Marines for lacking playable female characters, a franchise built upon strong female leads. Ten to fifteen years ago this sort of ommission would have been unthinkable. Today, this type of casual indifference to women is "normal".
This is more akin to what I thought you meant.

A trend that some are only too happy to see end so we can all get back to the status quo :(
I'm sure that histrionic posts like this will rectify that.
 

Something Amyss

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IronSkape said:
It kind of amazes me that you think that four out of eight romance options who aren't exclusively straight (2 are gay, 2 are bisexual) is too many to seem like....what, exactly? A gathering of people that could actually happen?
Four out of ten. There are two female only choices who have certain restrictions, and both are hetero. I'm not correcting you to be pedantic, but I find it even more baffling because it's not even an even split.