Poll: Gender Equality

BytByte

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Nov 26, 2009
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Before you shower me with all of your love because I made yet another gender-related thread, please understand. I kinda want this to be more survey like, as in you give your answers to the following questions, and someone who doesn't agree with you would do the same, but there would not be a debate about who's right or wrong, but more a discussion on what could cause those differences in perception. So here are some questions.

Should men and women be treated equally?
Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
How are men treated better than women in society?
How are women treated better than men in society?
If there is a problem, what is it and how bad is it?
If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?

Thanks everyone, and sorry again!

EDIT: Reworded the problem question so you could hopefully answer it better.
 

BytByte

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Nov 26, 2009
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I should answer my own questions to be fair

Should men and women be treated equally?
Yes (gotta start with a softball question)

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yeah

How are men treated better than women in society?
They have better opportunities provided for them and are in the majority of positions in power. They are also the de facto "default" in society.

How are women treated better than men in society?
They are considered the power at home, which can favoring when dealing with children and divorce

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
Things have improved a bunch and problems are getting more and more recognition, which can help. However, there are more subtle and subconscious problems that will be much harder to try and improve upon.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Just have a more open and productive discussion to get people thinking about gender issues more, which would hopefully lead to action. Education is important, yo

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
6, the Luigi gif is annoying
 

Abbyka

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Apr 9, 2015
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Should men and women be treated equally?

Yes. What real reason is there not to? We're all human.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?

Yes.

How are men treated better than women in society?

In many ways, yes. Granted, men do have some difficulties in SOME areas(such as custody of children, women tend to be favored). But the hardships women face outnumber those of men.

How are women treated better than men in society?

The only one I can think of right now would be child custody issues. I've seen some really good dads lose custody simply because of their gender. Judges tend to do whatever they can to keep the kids with their mom.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?

Not sure what problem you're talking about. The problem women face or men? If you're talking about women then you'd be in for an essay and I wouldn't know where to begin. As for guys, I think it's a big enough problem that it should be taken care of. There are cases out there of kids being given to their abusive mothers during a divorce and the fathers lose even visitation rights. That's wrong. Judges should look at the facts when dealing with child custody issues, not favor one sex over another. That's not the equality I'm looking for. I want equality across the board, even if I lose whatever advantage I have as a woman in whatever I actually do have advantage in. Everyone should be treated like a human being. The fact that a parent's gender can determine the future of a child is disgusting to me.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?

Easier said than done. I just wish people would stop looking at gender and start looking at who person is. Do they work hard? Are they a nice person? Would they have your back? Does gender even MEAN anything when dealing with people day to day? I wouldn't think anymore or less of someone based on their gender alone. All I care about is their character and personality. But this is an ideal I know most of the world is not ready to handle because we're hung up on more than just gender so it's like trying to sprint through quick sand. We make a little progress then sink a little deeper.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?

I don't see the reason to hate you for this thread. You're not being insulting about it.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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{1} Yes.

{2} Isn't it a Red Party standard to basically argue against women's rights?

{3} It's all in the perception and the glass ceiling problem, though you also don't hear much about 'man-rape'.

{4} Hard to say, really. Some of the stuff might've happened by coincidence instead of intention. Have to agree with the child custody part, however, and for good reason: She was the one having to go through the pregnancy. That pain deserves respect.

{5} It's gone political, where any yahoo can shove their foot in their mouth about it. That's pretty bad.

{6} I think that it would be best if I duct taped the mouths of alot of people who create friction for no good reason and let it be taken more seriously, pass a law, and force all the people against it to eat crow like all the people who pretend 'The South will rise again!'.

{7} Who are you, again?
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

Lolita Style, The Best Style!
Jan 12, 2010
2,151
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Should men and women be treated equally?
Well, yeah... I mean duh.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yes to an extent. Though as it stands as a first world issue, it's still much better than most third world countries.

How are men treated better than women in society?
Men are often considered more capable still, and there are lower standards on a man's looks. But all of the better treatment of men stuff has been talked to death.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Women generally get the benefit of a doubt more than men, are often held to lower standards especially in the eyes of the law. As mentioned before in divorce court and family court they get things like huge alimony, child support, and custody of children. Also women can where basically what they want with not much judgement thrown their way, while men generally can't get away with wearing skirts and high heels.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
Not as bad as it once was. With progress we've had in the first world it's almost a trivial issue compared to the third world.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Make humans gender neutral and let them choose which gender to develop into, if either.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
Meh, don't care.


FalloutJack said:
{4} Hard to say, really. Some of the stuff might've happened by coincidence instead of intention. Have to agree with the child custody part, however, and for good reason: She was the one having to go through the pregnancy. That pain deserves respect.
You can respect it all day long. But remember that it's a two sided coin and the father often puts in his fair share of effort. Just because he wasn't the one to give birth doesn't mean that he might be the better provider and guardian. Seen enough women who are totally unfit mothers to justify that child custody be taken on a case by case basis.
 

loa

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Jan 28, 2012
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Should men and women be treated equally?
No.
Women can't donate sperm. Men can't give brith.
Women use musclemass less efficiently. Men tend to be more single minded, less capability to multitask.
Denial of differences between sexes dishonest, counterproductive.
Assumption of general "equality" unrealistic, "be treated" encompasses everything.
Only logical answer can be no.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Probably but overblown. Wage gap, demonstrably false. Opportunities largely the same.

How are men treated better than women in society?
Less online harassment, assumption of higher capability though that is waning.

How are women treated better than men in society?

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
Define "problem".

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Finding the cause, making modifications, optimizations.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
NaN
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
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Jan 16, 2010
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Yes
Yes
By being seen as superior in the things seen as important
By being seen as inferior in the things seen as important
Difficult to measure.
...Yeah, ok, this is the one in which one line answers really isn't sufficient. Well, 3 and 4 as well.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

Lolita Style, The Best Style!
Jan 12, 2010
2,151
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FalloutJack said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Yeah, but the question was how, and that IS what happens.
True enough, but that's actually starting to change. The whole Divorce and Child Custody thing is starting to become a lot more fair to men. One reason is that it's become more accepted that some women go the vengeful route to take everything away from their husband during a divorce, and sometime for no good reason other than one party had to get petty and vindictive. If the system starts to heavily favour men in this regard I'm sure we'll see men do the same thing to the wives they're divorcing. The sad part is that's when it'll go from being an acceptable thing that happens in the system to a massive controversy.
 

Twintix

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Jun 28, 2014
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loa said:
Should men and women be treated equally?
No.
Women can't donate sperm. Men can't give brith.
Women use musclemass less efficiently. Men tend to be more single minded, less capability to multitask.
Denial of differences between sexes dishonest, counterproductive.
Assumption of general "equality" unrealistic, "be treated" encompasses everything.
Only logical answer can be no.
I think he meant treatment as a whole, like treating men and women as equals. I don't think anybody here advocates that there are no biological differences.

OT:

Should men and women be treated equally?
Yes. Of course they should.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yes, in places. It might not be as bad as it used to be, but the problem not being as widespread doesn't mean that there's an absence of a problem. We should always strive to improve.

How are men treated better than women in society?
In popular culture, at least, there's a bigger variation in looks for men. At least in TV shows and the like. There are the widespread muscle-bound studs and the brown-haired everyman, of course, but overall there's a bit more variety.
Also, as other have mentioned, men are still seen as more capable overall and don't get as much harrassment online.
...Now that I think about it, what about male game developers? I know developers get death threats for stupid stuff all the time, men and women alike, but I'm reminded of the DA2 writer who got so many death threats and rape threats, one going so far as to find out where her children went to school and threatened to murder them. All because they didn't like her writing. Do people put in as much effort when sending death threats to certain male developers? I'm not asking to judge anybody, I'm just curious.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Abuse and rape against men is almost always treated as a joke, a punchline. We have the false rape accusations from women which makes the whole rape reporting issue harder for everybody. But while a man hitting or raping a woman is almost never played for laughs in media, a woman hitting or raping a man almost always is. This attitude is the reason why male rape victims and abuse victims don't dare to report it: They are afraid that they'll be seen as a laughing stock.
Also, as others have mentioned, a woman is more likely to get custody of her children than a man during divorces, even if she is a horrible mother.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
Probably not as bad as it used to be, but like I said, a smaller problem does not equal a non-existent problem.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
There are no universal solutions, I'm afraid, but I'd probably start with introducing a few more varied female body types in media and inform people that female-on-male rape is a thing that happens (Maybe not as often, but how, exactly, do we know that if the victims don't dare to speak up about it?) and should be treated seriously.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
You haven't insulted anybody and just wanted a few questions answered, so I don't hate you, at least.
 

Lufia Erim

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Mar 13, 2015
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A) Yes
B)No
C and D) there are advantages for both parties
E) i personally think it's blown out of proportion, but i'm no scientist
F) Stop talking about it.
G) 5 . At least this thread tries to be productive.

Edit: no one is going to say men and women shouldn't be treated equally. They would be crucified on these forums.
 

Dizchu

...brutal
Sep 23, 2014
1,277
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Should men and women be treated equally?

Absolutely.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?

As long as genders are regarded as defining factors in people, there will always be a problem.

How are men treated better than women in society?

Trusted with greater responsibility outside of the home.
Less scrutiny on appearance (except for clothes, a woman with "male" clothing is acceptable while the reverse is not).
More credibility (except for when they're in danger).
Monotheistic religions think they're the shit.

How are women treated better than men in society?

Fewer expectations to be competitive, assertive and aggressive.
The ability to wear "male" clothing without getting homophobic/transphobic harassment (just make sure they hide their god-forsaken nipples).
In the West, lighter prison sentences.
More credibility when they are at risk of harm.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?

Pretty bad, and what's worse is that I think that neither feminism nor MRAs have a holistic enough approach to deal with it. "The grass is greener on the other side" seems to be a popular mentality ("I'm a man, look at how easy women get it, it's not fair"... and vice versa). The way a lot of feminism works actually does a lot to reinforce patriarchal ideals. It is unlikely that the problem will be eradicated until human civilisation undergoes some massive changes.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?

Encourage downplaying of gender as an identifier, encourage more interaction between genders, make people more aware of how pernicious and widespread sexism actually is, instead of labelling it a "women's issue".

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?

7.7 ;)
 

Jamieson 90

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Mar 29, 2010
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Should men and women be treated equally?
Of course, I hope that goes without saying.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yes I believe there is.

How are men treated better than women in society?
Career wise men have way more opportunities and it's very rare for women to break the glass ceiling. Even below that women struggle to get promotions because of things like childcare and maternity leave. The same applies to sports too as men are paid more than women there as well, as they usually are in pretty much every walk of life.

Men are also treated better by the media in general and are allowed to be in the public eye for much longer. Yes we're now seeing some older women working on TV shows etc but we've still a long way to go in that regard. Also, there are still many stereotypes that depict men as logical and reasonable and women as irrational and hormonal,reinforcing the idea that men are generally more capable than women.

Lastly, if a man sleeps with lots of girls he's a stud, yet if a women sleeps with lots of men she's a slut etc.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Women are way more likely, disportionality so, to win custody cases and benefit more from divorces proceedings. Even when the woman is a terrible mother and the children want to go with the father (most courts don't value what children say unless they're aged 15-16), and by that age it doesn't really matter anyway as the child will soon be 18.

Women are pretty much given a de facto get out of jail card when it comes to harming children. By this I mean that most people would never suspect a women of hurting a child. It just wouldn't happen so no one looks for it, and if you don't look for something then it's very rare that you'll find it. There are female child molesters out there just as there are men, how many get away with it because we don't think they exist?

Female on male rape and female on male domestic abuse is seen as a joke that is laughed at, especially in the media. Like always in these situations, if you reversed the sexes would you be laughing then? If not then why is it acceptable?

Women/girls do a lot better than men/boys in education.

Women have way more choice and variety when it comes to clothing and fashion. It's seen as acceptable for women to wear 'male' clothing yet a man would be demonised for doing the same with 'female' clothing.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
It's better than it used to be but I would say it is still pretty bad.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
We need more women to work and more men to share child care responsibilities. Only then will we see equality in pay, and as more and more men become primary child care givers more and more pressure will be put on family courts to reform and become more representative of reality, resulting in a more equal and fairer system both for women and men.

We need to educate people more about gender issues and gender roles so that we can begin to tackle the problems. We're making progress but like everything it will take time.

Speaking of education, we've had a system that benefits only boys and we've now got a system that hugely benefits girls. Shouldn't we have an educational system that is beneficial to both sexes and which brings out the best in both?

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
0.
 

McElroy

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Apr 3, 2013
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Should men and women be treated equally?

Yes.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?

As far as my experiences go there's no problem.

How are men treated better than women in society?

Stereotypical male behavior makes for a faster climb on the career ladder.

How are women treated better than men in society?

WTA pays the same amount of prize money as the ATP even though women's tennis sucks.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?

Map out the best way to advance in a career and people will deal with it how they see best. WTA can be improved by giving a fine to everyone who moans out loud while playing.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?

Can't taste the salami so 4/10.
 

Keoul

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Apr 4, 2010
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Should men and women be treated equally?
Nah, I think we should be treated fairly and given benefits to make up for what we lack so both are happy.
For example women get pregnancy leave, something completely useless for guys which is totally fine. If the world was all equality like then either they wouldn't get pregnancy leave which is pretty unfair or guys get some random bonus they'd never use but will still be used against them for the amount of company benefits they get or whatever.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yeah totally man! why don't girls open the doors for guys!
Only kidding, though there is a problem with how people treat each other based on sex it's kinda blown out of proportion at the moment.

How are men treated better than women in society?
They have an easier time getting certain jobs such as mining, soldier, athlete, etc.
I guess they also get to act gross and it being acceptable.
Also they get to wear suits for formal occasions while women have to pick through like a bazillion dresses and shoes to match.

How are women treated better than men in society?
They have an easier time getting certain jobs such as nurse, teacher, etc.
Plus they don't get asked to change seats on a plane if they find themselves next to an accompanied minor.
And also there's that whole chivalry thing though that's going out of style so that's good.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Educating people about it, if I was president of the world I'll have teams in every school district going to primary schools or grade schools or whatever you call it in that country and educate people on how girls and boys are different and that's okay. As long as we treat each other with respect then it's all good.

But if it was just me as I am now then I'll just chat about it with my friends and the people I meet and hope they follow my example. Can't do much with just little ole me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
Hate is 0/10
Disgust and loss of respect is 9/10
You can't just say "well I know you're all sick of it but here's another!" and think it's all good with a "sorry" you knew this would be annoying damnit!
 

mad825

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Mar 28, 2010
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Twintix said:
loa said:
Should men and women be treated equally?
No.
Women can't donate sperm. Men can't give brith.
Women use musclemass less efficiently. Men tend to be more single minded, less capability to multitask.
Denial of differences between sexes dishonest, counterproductive.
Assumption of general "equality" unrealistic, "be treated" encompasses everything.
Only logical answer can be no.
I don't think anybody here advocates that there are no biological differences.
So, everyone should be equal regardless of their sex even if there are differences? What?

And yet in a capitalistic society those differences have major ramifications. The primary and secondary sectors of the market are mainly based around manual/skilled labour which are again based around men (for their primal physical strength). What worth do women have in those sectors when they can't do as much as men? Simple, it's less.
 

RubyT

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Sep 3, 2009
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Should men and women be treated equally?
No.
They should have equal opportunities, but I will never treat girls the same way as boys.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Depends on your definition of problem.

How are men treated better than women in society?
They are given more agency.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Less is expected of them.
Sounds bad. And mostly is.
However, there are probably lots of guys who would trade in their menial, boring, tedious job to stay at home with the kids and let the missus work, if it were societally acceptable.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
The issue is WHAT do we want to solve.
Maybe the goal should be a society where everyone is treated equally, where people choose their sex, their gender and everything else. Sounds great, it really does.
The question is can a human society work that way.
 

Areloch

It's that one guy
Dec 10, 2012
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Should men and women be treated equally?
Yes.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yes.

How are men treated better than women in society?
Men that have failed glorious communism are sent to work camps, rather than gulag prisons. They at least get fresh air until they die.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Have you BEEN to work camp? It is all for sake of glorious communism, but it is terrible. It is much easier to sit inside all day and eat water for sustenance.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
It is problem, but easy to solve.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Do rotation shifts. Men in gulag prison, women in work camp, and then after women have done some work for glorious communism, women go to gulag prison and men to go work camp. This way all can work towards bettering glorious communism, but also get occasional nice vacation to gulag prison.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
Gulag for you. Gulag for everyone in thread!

Seriously though, this has been talked to death. Might as well inject a little bit of amusement while I'm here.
 

Zen Bard

Eats, Shoots and Leaves
Sep 16, 2012
704
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Should men and women be treated equally?
Yes. But equal treatment means respecting the individuals equally regardless of their gender, not creating a double standard or denying biology.

Mini Rant: I'm really tired of hearing about the "Gender diversity" issue in Silicon Valley. I think it's a fair statement that more men are drawn to coding than women. Yet activists are determined to make the ratio 50/50 in all tech companies. While women should absolutely NOT be discouraged to pursue careers in programming, they shouldn't be forced to either under the guise of "equality". Where's the outrage, for instance, in the lack of male nurses or male middle-school teachers?

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yep

How are men treated better than women in society?
Let's face it, the First World is a Patriarchal Society. And while that's changing slowly, men are still afforded more opportunities in leadership positions. As such, they generally have a greater influence in making rules, setting salaries and running The State. They're also perceived as being more calm and level-headed and less emotional.

How are women treated better than men in society?
The backlash against The Patriarchy has created a very high level of reverse discrimination against men. As mentioned in other posts, issues concerning rape, child custody, spousal support and alimony will almost always default in favor of women.

In America, women get a lot more positive press in the media. On television shows and commercials, they're always portrayed as smart, capable, clever and sexy. In contrast, men are usually portrayed as childish buffoons who are clueless about everything.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
The problem's not nearly as bad as it was fifty years ago. As horrible as it sounds, I think once some of the Boomers die off, a lot of the "Good Ol' Boy" mentality will die with them.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
It starts with the individual. I try to treat people the same regardless of gender, race, religion or sexual orientation. I like to believe that Female black Jewish lesbian can be just as much of an asshole as a male white Christian hetero! >:)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
1. Beats the shit out of another "Gamergate" thread!
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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This might better belong in the Religion and Politics board, just as an FYI.

CandideWolf said:
Should men and women be treated equally?
Yus.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yus.

How are men treated better than women in society?
They generally have more choices as far as athletic careers and opportunities, and in most situations they are not judged by their gender. For example, a male politician is judged by his merits as a "politician," or a male scientist id judged by his merits as a "scientist." A female politician will often be judged by her merits as a "female politician" or a "female scientist." There are many more situations where women are judged not only by what they're doing, but also how their gender affects this. There are situations where this will happen to men too, but I would say in most situations men are considered the "default."

There's also a general disdain for femininity in society. A girl who behaves like a boy is a tough "tomboy" and endearing, but a boy who behaves in a feminine way is seen as weak and strange. Femininity is seen as weak, inferior, and undesirable, which not only badly affects women but also men who have very feminine traits or behaviors.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Men are often looked down upon or even not trusted in child care positions, or any job considered outside the norm for men. Men also have fewer clothing options--there's just about no clothing that men wear that women can't wear, but men wearing women's clothing is still extremely unacceptable to many. Again, hearkening back to the whole "society doesn't like femininity" thing. Men are also more suspected of crime.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
I think it's just about as bad in both cases--they are both rooted in the same stereotypical gender roles and perceptions about gender which really need to go away.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Just keep normalizing things which are considered unusual but really aren't when you think about it. Normalize men wearing dresses. Normalize women in every kind of workplace. Normalize stay-at-home dads. Normalize women choosing not to have children. There are lots of things which are normal now which weren't before--"your mom wears combat boots" used to be an insult. Now it's an honor.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
0. This is an important topic, and the more we talk about it the less scary it will become :3