Poll: How do you personally feel about the term cisgender?

Ariseishirou

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necromanzer52 said:
Ariseishirou said:
Yes, that's why Chinese people call themselves "normal" as opposed to "Chinese." White Canadians refer to themselves as "normal" Canadians, because they're in the vast majority! It's why we don't have (or rarely use) the term "right-handed" - because the vast majority of the population everywhere on the planet is right-handed. They call themselves "normal-handed", as they should. Maybe in the future, when left-handed people are the majority, we'll use the term right-handed.

Who is being obtuse here?
I'm genuinely curious now. Where do people say normal-handed? This is the first time I've ever heard it. Everyone I've ever heard talk about handedness has used the words right-handed, left-handed and ambidextrous.

Come to think of it, I've never heard people use the word normal in reference to their race either.
It was sarcasm, to point out the absurdity of the poster I was responding to saying that it was the norm for the majority in a given population to be referred to as "normal" just because he can think of a single reference in a foreign language to that being the case. We don't do that with anything else, really.
 

Atomic Spy Crab

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Atomic Spy Crab said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Atomic Spy Crab said:
Why would the term be necessary at all?
For the same reasons we have terms like straight to define the opposite gay/lesbian, or heterosexual being the opposite of homosexual, same as the reason every race is named. Same reason we have differentials for tall and short. Cisgender is simply the opposite of transgender and in the context of gender identity discussions it's a term with a valid worth.
I've never heard cisgender used by anyone that wasn't being ironic or judgemental, and isn't gender determined by your reproductive organs? If you identify as a female as a male, you're still male, you have male reproductive organs and all that testosterone.
Sex is determined by reproductive organs, gender is more of a social/cultural construct of humans, and an identity with in that construct. Besides after a orichectomy I don't have that much natural testosterone production due to the fact that the main testosterone producers were removed. I've never heard cisgender being used by someone being judgmental except for in one instance in real life.
So I just checked and you're right, gender is masculine and feminine, sex is male and female, learn something new every day. I've only heard it used seriously in real life and that's when they're being judgmental, the term has been so twisted to mean something negative now. So I think I'll change my opinion, I think we need a better term than cisgender, maybe normal. (I'm joking about the normal part before you start sending me angry messages)
 

kris40k

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Not the point, the point I was making is that every special interest has their own opposite identifier. Normal and abnormal are also considered rather judgmental at any rate. My point still stands...Cisgender is after all just the opposite definition of transgender.
True, my response to you was only addressing what I felt was an incorrect statement that normal and abnormal are too broad of terms. I made no statement in regards to transgender rights. I'll make sure to edit down my quotes to show only what I am addressing.

As far as normal/abnormal being judemental and cisgender just being the opposite of transgender, as of the time of my snapshot, 52.8 percent of this (unscientific) poll view its (cisgender) use negatively, 19.3% positively, and 27.8% neutral. [footnote]

Negative:
I think it's become insulting. 12% (51)
I think it's just plain unnecessary. 36.3% (154)
I think that it's become to negative and needs to be replaced. 4.5% (19)

Positive:
I think it's a pretty good term. 19.3% (82)

Neutral:
I think not enough people know it for it to work. 4.2% (18)
I honestly don't care one way or the other. 16.5% (70)
I'm not sure what to think about the term. 1.9% (8)
I don't know what cisgender means. 5.2% (22)
[/footnote]

So, perhaps its use is not quite as well received as the transcommunity might hope. Personal opinion, I think LostGryphon is on to something with the statement, "A lot of folks are being exposed to the word when it's couched in vitriol." I know I was exposed to it first with negative connotations. I guess you can thank the Twitterati and Tumbler crowds for ruining your perfectly good word.
 

MrFalconfly

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Atomic Spy Crab said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Atomic Spy Crab said:
Why would the term be necessary at all?
For the same reasons we have terms like straight to define the opposite gay/lesbian, or heterosexual being the opposite of homosexual, same as the reason every race is named. Same reason we have differentials for tall and short. Cisgender is simply the opposite of transgender and in the context of gender identity discussions it's a term with a valid worth.
I've never heard cisgender used by anyone that wasn't being ironic or judgemental, and isn't gender determined by your reproductive organs? If you identify as a female as a male, you're still male, you have male reproductive organs and all that testosterone.
Sex is determined by reproductive organs, gender is more of a social/cultural construct of humans, and an identity with in that construct. Besides after a orichectomy I don't have that much natural testosterone production due to the fact that the main testosterone producers were removed. I've never heard cisgender being used by someone being judgmental except for in one instance in real life.
And I've only ever heard the term cis being used credibly by chemists talking about organic chemistry (Cis?trans isomerism, like with cis-1,2-dichlorocyclohexane).
 

necromanzer52

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Ariseishirou said:
It was sarcasm, to point out the absurdity of the poster I was responding to saying that it was the norm for the majority in a given population to be referred to as "normal" just because he can think of a single reference in a foreign language to that being the case. We don't do that with anything else, really.
Well, I'm an idiot. I really should've read that more carefully, but it certainly shows how ridiculous some of the posts in this thread are that that one didn't stick out to me at all. It's like that law that it's impossible to leave a comment on youtube so ridiculous and stupid that everyone will realise you must be joking.
 

Zamina Zangalewa

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I had to look it up.


Is this really a new word to describe the experience of most people?

So, basically, the average/standard, dare I say normal, just got a new word?

waste of linguistic effort it seems to me.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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MrFalconfly said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Atomic Spy Crab said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Atomic Spy Crab said:
Snip
Snip
And I've only ever heard the term cis being used credibly by chemists talking about organic chemistry (Cis?trans isomerism, like with cis-1,2-dichlorocyclohexane).
That might be true, but it would also depend on where you've seen the word in usage, if you're in a chemistry lab more than around trans people you'll see cis in terms of chemicals, rather than the term cisgender. Unfortunate that the word's usage in the trans community very rarely slips into conversation... Then gain most trans people I know aren't nearly as open in person, at least not in public places, as they are online, mostly due to the reactions some of our more extreme detractors would have.
 

Varrdy

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I've only ever encountered it a few times and each time it was used as an insult or a negative. The first time I heard it / was called it was when I replied to a friend's tweet and we were talking about something totally unrelated. Someone else responded and included the term: "hominidae cis-scum!"

I actually had to look up the word "Cis" as I had no idea what he/she/shi was on about and when I did I was quite disturbed. Some people are born straight and happy with their gender but that shouldn't make them bad people, should it? I'm as accepting as they come and could care less if someone wants to take out the Bat-Pole and replace it with a Bat-Cave (or vice-versa), so long as they're happy then it's all good. So to suddenly be called "cis-scum" was kind of upsetting.

Since then I've only seen it used a few times but those few times it was always used as a negative, which strikes me as a tad hypocritical considering how (legitimately) pissed-off transgender people are with being negatively labelled.

Now I acknowledge that this is my own personal experience and 3 out of several billion people is hardly a yard-stick but the point still stands that it's not cool to use the term as an insult.

Despite what the pseudo-liberals and men-haters like to say, being straight and male and cool with that doesn't automatically mean you're a complete git!
 

Riot3000

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I have no issue with word cisgender as others have said it is a academic term. I have used it for papers and there is nothing negative to it. I have used it because righting a sociological paper and using "normal" as a measurement is an exercise in insanity.

I am aware of the "tumblrites" and that whole bile of nonsense and I can understand how some people might use it to come off smarter in a really smug way but that does really make the word bad. I think most words when they get out of academia are doomed before they make it out the door.

I have started to just groan at all labels from feminazi to redpill because these words are just a shut up don't say something I don't like. Unfortunately cisgender which should bring discussion has been used to shut people up.

I have no issue with cisgender there is nothing wrong with the word and I think this is a matter of context and individual emotional states at certain topics more than the word itself.
 

Cecilo

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Unfortunately for me the term Cis or Cisgender has been co-opted by people who use it much like one would use a mace, you swing it around willy nilly and bam. "Cis Scum", and other such terms. On page 7 of this thread I read that using abnormal or handicapped, special were phased out because they were co-opted in such a way that they became charged with bigotry, or some such.

Well, thats what CIS or Cisgender is to me. Anytime I hear it, or see it, it is always accompanied by a threat, insult, or derogatory, and honestly I have enough stuff going on, I certainly don't need something to make my own life worse than it is.
 

Asita

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Frankly I generally don't give a second thought to "cisgender". I mean yes, there are people who will use the term for the sake of dismissal, but the term's too clinical - I feel - to come off as inherent pejorative, so it comes off very much like someone trying to use sex, race, religion, athletic ability, clique, or [real or assumed] political affiliation (both in the "party" and "spectrum" sense) as a point against a person. The intended meaning is simple enough to grasp when put alongside "transgender", which makes it a decent enough descriptor.

"Cishet", on the other hand...well suffice to say that for the longest time I thought the actual term was "cisshit" because that's how everyone pronounced it when I heard it spoken, and only I only ever heard it in a context that reflected the implications of the bolded part (which is to say that I've heard far more people use something akin to "Those stupid cisshits" than I have "No, no, he's cishet, he doesn't swing that way"). I quite literally first heard it used in the academic sense after a year or so of hearing it used purely in the pejorative sense[footnote]And no, I don't frequent twitter, tumblr, or any overtly political sites or venues. My experience in that regard stems from common discourse. Granted though, a fair amount of that was during college.[/footnote], so as you might imagine I'm sympathetic to the perception that "cishet" is largely used as a term of dismissal, or even that it's used in a manner roughly equivalent to "tranny". Which is sad, because while it should by rights be a useful descriptor, I can't in good faith say that I've seen the proper academic use eclipse the pejorative usage.

This likely isn't helped by the fact that despite the term being a portmanteau, I've never seen any similar term employed for other demographics. Cishomo, cispan, cisbi, transhet, transhomo, transpan, transbi...for all I know I just coined all those terms in this post and to the best of my knowledge no terms of similar meaning exist. This helps to similarly color the perceived use of "cishet" as a term more used for the sake of 'othering' than describing.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Varrdy said:
I've only ever encountered it a few times and each time it was used as an insult or a negative. The first time I heard it / was called it was when I replied to a friend's tweet and we were talking about something totally unrelated. Someone else responded and included the term: "hominidae cis-scum!"

I actually had to look up the word "Cis" as I had no idea what he/she/shi was on about and when I did I was quite disturbed. Some people are born straight and happy with their gender but that shouldn't make them bad people, should it? I'm as accepting as they come and could care less if someone wants to take out the Bat-Pole and replace it with a Bat-Cave (or vice-versa), so long as they're happy then it's all good. So to suddenly be called "cis-scum" was kind of upsetting.

Since then I've only seen it used a few times but those few times it was always used as a negative, which strikes me as a tad hypocritical considering how (legitimately) pissed-off transgender people are with being negatively labelled.

Now I acknowledge that this is my own personal experience and 3 out of several billion people is hardly a yard-stick but the point still stands that it's not cool to use the term as an insult.

Despite what the pseudo-liberals and men-haters like to say, being straight and male and cool with that doesn't automatically mean you're a complete git!
The issue here is that it's a loud ignorant minority on the internet that uses it and the truly sad part is that the negative examples I've seen are all from cisgender people. Not a single one of them is trans as far as I could tell. The problem is the outrage mongering trolls on twitter specifically and to a lesser extent on Tumblr, as they seem to go around doing damange to our cause out of malice that no one else notices. Making the trans community look like a bunch of hateful loonies is basically one of the best ways to diminish our cause.

Also transition varies from trans person to trans person. Many like my self don't go in for the full SRS(replacing the bat-pole with the bat-cave as you called it) for our own various reasons, but do have many of the other things done(like orchiectomy in my case.) It's more or less about getting rid of the dysphoria, not going to the fullest length of procedures out of some sort of obligation. But I get the analogy.

Cecilo said:
Unfortunately for me the term Cis or Cisgender has been co-opted by people who use it much like one would use a mace, you swing it around willy nilly and bam. "Cis Scum", and other such terms. On page 7 of this thread I read that using abnormal or handicapped, special were phased out because they were co-opted in such a way that they became charged with bigotry, or some such.

Well, thats what CIS or Cisgender is to me. Anytime I hear it, or see it, it is always accompanied by a threat, insult, or derogatory, and honestly I have enough stuff going on, I certainly don't need something to make my own life worse than it is.
Along with the poster above I really believe that this comes from outside the trans community from our enemies, as well as from the "white knight" types who get pretty vile, attempting to defend something they don't understand.

This is really a term that the trans community as a whole needs to take back with and re-coin it the correct way, rather than the hateful vernacular it seems to be gaining at the moment.
 

Cecilo

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Varrdy said:
I've only ever encountered it a few times and each time it was used as an insult or a negative. The first time I heard it / was called it was when I replied to a friend's tweet and we were talking about something totally unrelated. Someone else responded and included the term: "hominidae cis-scum!"

I actually had to look up the word "Cis" as I had no idea what he/she/shi was on about and when I did I was quite disturbed. Some people are born straight and happy with their gender but that shouldn't make them bad people, should it? I'm as accepting as they come and could care less if someone wants to take out the Bat-Pole and replace it with a Bat-Cave (or vice-versa), so long as they're happy then it's all good. So to suddenly be called "cis-scum" was kind of upsetting.

Since then I've only seen it used a few times but those few times it was always used as a negative, which strikes me as a tad hypocritical considering how (legitimately) pissed-off transgender people are with being negatively labelled.

Now I acknowledge that this is my own personal experience and 3 out of several billion people is hardly a yard-stick but the point still stands that it's not cool to use the term as an insult.

Despite what the pseudo-liberals and men-haters like to say, being straight and male and cool with that doesn't automatically mean you're a complete git!
The issue here is that it's a loud ignorant minority on the internet that uses it and the truly sad part is that the negative examples I've seen are all from cisgender people. Not a single one of them is trans as far as I could tell. The problem is the outrage mongering trolls on twitter specifically and to a lesser extent on Tumblr, as they seem to go around doing damange to our cause out of malice that no one else notices. Making the trans community look like a bunch of hateful loonies is basically one of the best ways to diminish our cause.

Also transition varies from trans person to trans person. Many like my self don't go in for the full SRS(replacing the bat-pole with the bat-cave as you called it) for our own various reasons, but do have many of the other things done(like orchiectomy in my case.) It's more or less about getting rid of the dysphoria, not going to the fullest length of procedures out of some sort of obligation. But I get the analogy.

Cecilo said:
Unfortunately for me the term Cis or Cisgender has been co-opted by people who use it much like one would use a mace, you swing it around willy nilly and bam. "Cis Scum", and other such terms. On page 7 of this thread I read that using abnormal or handicapped, special were phased out because they were co-opted in such a way that they became charged with bigotry, or some such.

Well, thats what CIS or Cisgender is to me. Anytime I hear it, or see it, it is always accompanied by a threat, insult, or derogatory, and honestly I have enough stuff going on, I certainly don't need something to make my own life worse than it is.
Along with the poster above I really believe that this comes from outside the trans community from our enemies, as well as from the "white knight" types who get pretty vile, attempting to defend something they don't understand.

This is really a term that the trans community as a whole needs to take back with and re-coin it the correct way, rather than the hateful vernacular it seems to be gaining at the moment.
The problem with your explanation is the same problem any group has. You cannot just go "They aren't us, so it shouldn't matter". It's done, the association is there. And unfortunately since people aren't going to stop using it, Normal or Cis People are going to keep getting defensive or annoyed about it. Possibly more so as more people learn about it, and more people eventually start abusing it. That's the way of words. And then someone will coin a new one, and the people causing problems will jump on that one too. And people like me, will keep getting sick of it, and insist that we are normal, and you are abnormal, because that's the way of things.

Granted being abnormal is not bad, I prided myself on what I thought being abnormal was in my life, but I learned eventually that people don't care, and the louder you shout out that you are different they louder they will pick apart your difference into bad things. Such things will never change until someone starts not grouping people separately than what you are. Goodluck finding someone to make that leap though.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Cecilo said:
The problem with your explanation is the same problem any group has. You cannot just go "They aren't us, so it shouldn't matter". It's done, the association is there. And unfortunately since people aren't going to stop using it, Normal or Cis People are going to keep getting defensive or annoyed about it. Possibly more so as more people learn about it, and more people eventually start abusing it. That's the way of words. And then someone will coin a new one, and the people causing problems will jump on that one too. And people like me, will keep getting sick of it, and insist that we are normal, and you are abnormal, because that's the way of things.

Granted being abnormal is not bad, I prided myself on what I thought being abnormal was in my life, but I learned eventually that people don't care, and the louder you shout out that you are different they louder they will pick apart your difference into bad things. Such things will never change until someone starts not grouping people separately than what you are. Goodluck finding someone to make that leap though.
Well the idea that I'm getting at is a movement to retake the word. It's not impossible to grab a negative term back and reapply it to the group in a positive light.
 

Mechamorph

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I would readily agree that the term "cis-gender" is often encountered as a form of insult, wielded like a bludgeon to defend the views of the individual. I am not so sure that there is some sort of insidious conspiracy or "enemies of the trans community" making a concerted effort to appropriate the word and render it into something spiteful and vile. I certainly would believe that the vast majority of that community do not use the term in prerogative manner but an assertion that none of them do might be a tad hard to fly. It could easily be used by malicious individuals as a "we never did anything wrong, it was all other people's fault" statement, twisted to mean that the Trans community is entirely innocent of any wrongdoing. This is the internet, there are nasty people in any community with the difference being how many. Holding a given group as faultless is an invitation for attack and I would advise against it unless you can provide solid evidence.

I do agree though that I come across the term far less in transgender discourse and more in feminist discourse, often used to discredit any non-homosexual, non-transgender male and to dismiss their opinions as irrelevant. It is true that certain terms on the internet have become rather loaded. Claiming "triggers" can be read as someone taking an easy means to squelch any opinions they do not agree with. Claiming to have Asperger's can be seen as someone making an excuse for terrible behaviour. This is not to say that people with real PTSD or actual sufferers from Asperger's don't exist or that they do not deserve any special consideration, I am saying that, just like cis-gender, the words have been appropriated for less than benevolent purposes by much less deserving individuals.

Also, you might be surprised just how much our language rags on those who are "different". Left-handedness for example is perhaps one of the oldest of the "abnormal" states to early man. Words like "sinister" or "gauche" specifically refer to the left or left-handedness while words like "adroit" and "dexterous" refer to right-handedness or ambidexterity.
 

Thaluikhain

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Zamina Zangalewa said:
Is this really a new word to describe the experience of most people?

So, basically, the average/standard, dare I say normal, just got a new word?
You mean like "heterosexual", or "right handed"? Not seeing why cis should be any different.
 

Cidward

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It's dumb but whatever. It certainly doesn't offend me if people feel some need to call me that. It has no real meaning to me and seems more important to people who aren't than people who are, so whatevs.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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LostGryphon said:
Apologies for me being mentally stunted here, but...would it be fair to say it's a treatable disorder, which is then cured by the aforementioned treatment, resulting in an erasure of said disorder?
THe act of distress is what makes it a disorder, yes. But being trans does not correlate to permanent distress. Which is why it's important to not conflate the two. That is what I'm saying. I have made this point 4 times, now. It's getting quite boring to have to repeat myself.

Being trans is not a disordered state. Being UNHAPPY about beung trans CAN be ... in much the case of many people feeling sorrow and performing self-harm about being gay.

LostGryphon said:
I mean, from what I can see with a quick glance around info sites, the two are used to describe the same thing with no real consensus on the terminology. Surely dysphoria, by its very nature, in relation to ones biological sex/gender not aligning would and indeed could by considered a disorder? A misalignment of body and mind?

*He asked, with palpable trepidation.*
Unless it causes visible distress or irrationality and self-harm.

But many trans people are happy, socially active, well-adjusted, and cognitively functioning as a rational entity, once they have satisfactorily transition. I know I no longer feel dysphoric. So pretending like I'm a disordered person simply for being trans is no different when they used to treat homosexuals the same way.

If there is no distress, there can be no dysphoria. THat's why the modern definitions in multiple places refer to dysphoria as only the PAIN of dissatisfaction with one's body. Not the aftermath as one moves towards transition.

LostGryphon said:
Bearing in mind that we're trying to ignore negative connotations for words and take them at face value. This approach mirrors some folks' argument for 'Cis' being employed, regardless of its own potential negative connotations toward those its targeting.
The fuck? I have never used it like that, my friends have never used it like that.

LostGryphon said:
Er. Well, ya see.

Someone could make that exact same argument for the use of 'abormal' in relation to trans folks, with their particular friends or conversational partners and as an argument for not using 'cis.'
'Abnormal' refers to an abnormality, something that I am perceivable deficient or differentiated by. I don't want to be differentiated. And I certainly don't want to be arbitrarily lumped into a group of people who have fuck all to do with me.

Cis shouldn't be offensive because it has no offensive undertones, abnormal should be because for the longest time it made people outliers for no other reason than personal prejudice. This is WHY it has no clear borders, just anybody that someone wants to promote as 'other' for arbitrary, bullshit reasons.

Much like the term. Arbitrary and generally bullshit. Cis cuts through ALL that

LostGryphon said:
I realize that they're not equivalent terms. I specifically put 'disorder' in quotes to indicate that I wasn't meaning to conflate the two and was going for parity with a specific meaning, ie. 'abnormal condition' (sort of a literal interpretation)...which didn't work.

Don't really appreciate the inference of prejudice though.
I calls it likes I sees it. Arbitrary, prejudicial garbage. Also, I don't really care if you weren't or not. A disorder generally relates to a state of confusion. So no, there's a reason I call it prejudicial garbage as it's the same argument used again, and again, to try to invalidate gay and trans people...

You'll forgive me if I believe the same rhetoric cropping up deserves a stern, flat; "NO!"