MisterShine said:
EClaris said:
It's obviously is losing momentum before it cuts to the credits, just because it isn't blatantly references doesn't mean it isn't a possibility.
Yes, but when he first starts spinning the top, it is very wobbly, then goes to a more stable position, then at the end of the movie gets more wobbly. The fact that it went from wobbling to perfectly stable says to me that he is probably still in limbo.
The going from wobbly to stable, imo, wans't a conscious directional choice by Nolan. DiCaprio just spent the top not perfectly. This is more of a product of editing than storytelling. The focus wasn't really on the top in a "Focus on this now" way. However, when the top is stable it is clearly meant to be the focal point of that shot. The film cuts out right as the top begins to lose momentum. If it was the real world, it would have toppled in seconds, if it was a dream it could easily recover a keep up it's pace.
Besides the behavior you're describing is never shown to be a property of the dream top (it remains stable, it's force doesn't fluctuate in dreams)
Also, his kids never changed clothes from his memories,
This has weight, but it's also just as easily interpreted as building up the audiences expectation and getting us to want closure to one consistent image. The entire movie we are shown the same image over and over waiting for them to turn around, it's a motif clearly present throughout the film. Showing the audience the familiar image and providing closure to it is more powerful on an emotional level. The kids aren't major characters, they're tertiary
at best, changing the appearance of character we don't even see the faces of until the end is an unnecessary mucking up of plot understanding. A familiar image basically tells the audience on a subconscious ([sub]hehe[/sub]) level "It's the kids" in the most simplified and direct way possible.
But it can go either way
the decorum of the house didn't change at all, neither did his children age. Pretty strong evidence for limbo.
DiCaprio doesn't change his appearance at all either. People don't change in appearance all that much in a year, the kids aren't babies and they aren't going through puberty, so rapid change isn't necessarily warranted. Besides, do you know how much of a pain it would be to cast kids who look enough like them yet a year older in order for there to be a distinguishable difference? Forgoing all hidden "clues" that could be in the unchanged appearance, a year of aging isn't worth showing on film. I mean, what would they be? A little taller, maybe thinner. That's not really enough warrant changing for such minor characters.
And decor staying the same? Really? I don't know about your home, but in all my experience of being in houses, their decor does not change drastically in the course of one year, especially if the homeowners are absent. This is terribly weak evidence, as real world logic would say that most likely, their house would be the same.
I'm sorry, but things in the film that are easily explained by editing goofs, ease of production and directional choices aren't "strong" evidence at all. Now, like I said, I'm perfectly fine with the ambiguous ending, but it is just that, ambiguous. When someone says "How could anybody think..." and then cites a scene cut which provides the ambiguity as "proof" to back up such a derisive claim seeking obvious closure where there is meant to be none is a sign that they aren't mature in their acceptance of storytelling conventions.
That being said, there
is strong evidence for him being in a dream, just not what has been cited. For example
~The top was never Cobb's totem to begin with, therefore him using it to determine reality could be considered futile.
~Cobb acquired the totem while in limbo, and we never see him acquire it in the "real" world.
~We never even see Cobb's totem, so we never see how he measures what's "real" and what isn't
~Mal made up the spinning rule, who's to say that the qualities of a totem doesn't change with who posses it? As far as we know, Arthur and Ariadne's totems do not posses strange physical qualities while in the dream world. Maybe strange enough to tell they are in a dream, but nothing as impossible as an infinitely spinning top is even implied.
~It's never fully explained how deep Mal and Cobb go in their experiments. Mal could be completely right and there is more levels of sleep above them. There could be more than 3 accessible levels before Limbo, we're at the mercy of the exposition. Due to Cobb's lack of his own totem, he could easily be in another level of dreaming for the entire film, making the end a dream.
That is "strong" evidence, not what has been listed in the thread at the time I'm writing this post. And there is just as much "strong" evidence for it being the real waking world. Nolan purposely made this an ambiguous film, purposely trying to defy that with petty assumptions shows that the point has been missed by whoever tries to do that
