Poll: Is abortion murder?

[Keava]

Is masturbation murder? Is safe sex murder? Is premature ejaculation murder? In all those cases you are in theory "killing" possible future life. Each time a woman in her fertile days doesn't have sex, she kills a possible life too because those eggs will decay eventually.
Women are born with around 400 000 possible eggs, while during the reproductive years only around 400-500 evolves to a state of true egg that can be used for reproduction. In theory, we "murder" thousands of possible lives by just living and few hundreds more for not breeding every month.

 

[Zannah]

Where did I say any of that?
All I did was point out how men have a stake in the discussion. Which is what you asked me.

First off all, you fail to give proper reasoning for that (as I explained above), secondly, by joining sides with the 'abortion is murder' argument(which I felt you did, feel free to correct me), that is what you implied, or what those people imply (unless of course, they also imply that murder isn't all that bad)

Physical pain? not much.
Inconveniences regarding lifestyle? 18 years of child support or if you actually stay around to be a parent to the child, then probably the biggest single change to your lifestyle you will ever experience.
Surely men are entitled to some input into whether their genetic offspring are brought into the world?

And the women does not have to look after the child for 18 years? Besides, of course, no woman should a bear a child without the respective mans consent. But that also works the other way around. The 'abortion is murder'-people don't get this however, and claim that the man has the right to say 'hah, we slept together, no you have to bear my child, because abortion is murder'.

 

[BringBackBuck]

Is masturbation murder? Is safe sex murder? Is premature ejaculation murder? In all those cases you are in theory "killing" possible future life. Each time a woman in her fertile days doesn't have sex, she kills a possible life too because those eggs will decay eventually.
Women are born with around 400 000 possible eggs, while during the reproductive years only around 400-500 evolves to a state of true egg that can be used for reproduction. In theory, we "murder" thousands of possible lives by just living and few hundreds more for not breeding every month.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that life exists pre-fertilization.

Which always makes me think of that Monty Python sketch


Nor is anyone arguing that killing a child once born isn't murder.

It's the bit in between which is the grey area.

 

[Maze1125]

First off all, you fail to give proper reasoning for that (as I explained above),

No I didn't.
Being a father is a stake.
Some of the aborted children being male is a stake.

Those are both facts. It's debatable how much of a stake they are, but they are stakes nevertheless. Just because you don't like want to believe it, doesn't change the fact that it's true.

secondly, by joining sides with the 'abortion is murder' argument(which I felt you did, feel free to correct me),

Okay, I hereby correct you.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Sorry no, your soul is earned, not given.

scientifically, if its murder, than jizzing into a condom is genocide

 

[Tharwen]

Technically, it's not alive, so no.

How is it now alive? Did you know that by week 4 the baby already has a heart and a circulatory system? And the heart starts beating by week 5?

Yes, but slugs also have a fully functional circulatory system. That doesn't make it murder.

 

[BringBackBuck]

Technically, it's not alive, so no.

How is it now alive? Did you know that by week 4 the baby already has a heart and a circulatory system? And the heart starts beating by week 5?

Yes, but slugs also have a fully functional circulatory system. That doesn't make it murder.

slugs aren't human.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

No, when someone has a sixth month old baby, they're not pregnant with it, so they acknowledge it wasn't truly alive in a human sense while they were pregnant.

 

[Maze1125]

No, when someone has a sixth month old baby, they're not pregnant with it, so they acknowledge it wasn't truly alive in a human sense while they were pregnant.

What?

 

[Keava]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that life exists pre-fertilization.

Which always makes me think of that Monty Python sketch


Nor is anyone arguing that killing a child once born isn't murder.

It's the bit in between which is the grey area.

I don't see a difference however. Till it starts actually developing neural activity in ~24th week its no different from a tumor. Viability of actual life starts after 24th week of pregnancy with about 50% chance and in 28th reacher full viability. Before that it's pretty much just overgrowth of cells.

 

[Czargent Sane]

pehaps we should differenciate between types of abortion, some destroy the fetus (which is an awkward term to use like this because it means offspring) in early stages, where others consist of inducing labor and just stabbing the thing when it comes out.

no, I'm not making that up. and yes, Its legal in the us.

 

[Maze1125]

I don't see a difference however. Till it starts actually developing neural activity in ~24th week its no different from a tumor. Viability of actual life starts after 24th week of pregnancy with about 50% chance and in 28th reacher full viability. Before that it's pretty much just overgrowth of cells.

Babies younger than 22 weeks have survived, and do you have any proof that brain activity never starts before 24 weeks?

 

[Kair]

Calling an embryo a human is like calling a drop of sperm a megacity.

 

[Maze1125]

Calling an embryo a human is like calling a drop of sperm a megacity.

Human embryo's are most definitely a member of the species Homo sapiens.

 

[NestorES]

it depends,

do you believe in the eternal soul? if so, does it become corporeal at the time of conception or when the first breath is drawn?

If no soul then it doesnt matter, kill whenever/however you need only consider the consequences (in the case of abortion very minor if you are a guy, somewhat more complicated if you are the mother).

My thoughts - take precautions but if having sex actually achieves the physiological objective of creating life then go with it because that is far more important than hanging out and playing video games...

 

[Keava]

Babies younger than 22 weeks have survived, and do you have any proof that brain activity never starts before 24 weeks?

Thanks to intensive medical care, not on their own. You can clone a living being too, and yet is not considered by many life because there was no 'act of love' there. Fancy ain't it? I'm not even going to point out that many of pro-life activists are against in-vitro because you are killing 'possible' life forms through freezing the unused cells.

And in 24th week the Thalamus develops which is the part of brain responsible for managing sensory system in human body as well as plays major role in awareness, arousal and general activity

 

[BringBackBuck]

I don't see a difference however. Till it starts actually developing neural activity in ~24th week its no different from a tumor. Viability of actual life starts after 24th week of pregnancy with about 50% chance and in 28th reacher full viability. Before that it's pretty much just overgrowth of cells.

At 23 weeks if you play loud music it will start kicking and thrashing about. I would consider that neural activity.

Apparently it has about a 15% chance of survival outside the womb at that stage.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

No, when someone has a sixth month old baby, they're not pregnant with it, so they acknowledge it wasn't truly alive in a human sense while they were pregnant.

What?

Someone has a baby, that they describe as sixth months old. If babies were considered alive in the womb, then a six month old baby could not have been born.

 

[BringBackBuck]

No, when someone has a sixth month old baby, they're not pregnant with it, so they acknowledge it wasn't truly alive in a human sense while they were pregnant.

What?

Someone has a baby, that they describe as sixth months old. If babies were considered alive in the womb, then a six month old baby could not have been born.

Wait, I am still confused. Is your argument that because we count the age of a person starting from his/her birthday, that abortion is murder?

 

[Eisenfaust]

The point however stands, how can anyone male comment on this topic at all?

what does gender have anything to do with whether it's murder or not? just because the woman is the one who has the abortion, doesn't mean the man has no right to say anything about it... sure, men can't comment on the woman's physical and emotional pain as a result of the abortion, but a woman's comments will be defined predominately by her views of whether abortion is murder or not... same as a woman can't really comment on a man's reaction... men and women have completely different expierences when it comes to abortion, but just because woman are more directly involved with the process, doesn't mean that the morality of the process can be defined solely by them... that's just stupid...