Poll: Is Flower the closest to art as games will get?

SalamanderJoe

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During my uni research, I discovered that Flower (on PS3) is the most discussed game as the bridge between games and art, by critics, gamers and journalists. Just as a bit more research for my Uni work, would you consider Flower to be art, closest as games will get to being art, or just still a game?
 

Lullabye

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Oct 23, 2008
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no. games are art in general. Just different types and styles. Its like saying the Mona Lisa is as close to art as pictures will get.
Even if this were a debate, SotC wins. Screw Flower.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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Is it art? Maybe. But it's also not a very good game at all, and we should not be holding it up as a example of what games can be and should try to be. We should be pointing at it with mild disgusting and saying "This... thing is what you get when you care more about being artsy over making a great game. Don't make games like this."

For people who don't know what Flower is, here's a video. The big "selling point" of this game is that it's supposed to be relaxing.

I found it relaxing enough to put me into a coma (in other words, it's boring and not even remotely entertaining), and I'm glad I tried it one someone else's console instead of buying it on my own. Otherwise it would have also pissed me off because I wasted money on it.
 

Pedro The Hutt

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Games like Okami, and even the Portal duology perfectly qualify as art in my opinion. The underappreciated Wii title Fragile Dreams also is a very strong contender considering it's put me in a deep emotional state more than once and I'm not even halfway into it.

So yes, like others said, it would be pretentious to call Flower the closest thing gaming has gotten to art or will ever get when games before and after it have already succeeded.
 

Liberaliter

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I don't see how Flower is art more than any other game, apparently making your game as pretentious and indie as possible is the best way to become 'art'.
 
Nov 12, 2010
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All games are art,what is the reason behind them not being art?They were created by humans with a specific goal of emotion in mind and therefore fulfill the role of an art form.Honestly,the whole argument makes me sick.Its just like when anime was considered otherwise when it is just another way of drawing mickey mouse.
 

Continuity

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SalamanderJoe said:
During my uni research, I discovered that Flower (on PS3) is the most discussed game as the bridge between games and art, by critics, gamers and journalists. Just as a bit more research for my Uni work, would you consider Flower to be art, closest as games will get to being art, or just still a game?
Every single game ever created is art, you just need to open you mind a little.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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Ugh, Okami. That goes in the pile where I point at it with extreme disgust and say "If you ever make something as utterly broken as this, you have failed as a developer and/or publisher. Shame on you."

Sorry, but I don't care how pretty a game looks. If the game is broken because you didn't test your controls at all, you have failed and deserve no praise. Art should bring people happiness, not pure rage because the controls and mechanics don't work. First they give you broken combat until they finally give you one of the bead weapons and you can put away the disc that doesn't work. And then they load you down with so many magic spells that require you to draw various forms of circles that the game can't differentiate between which spell you want, no matter how perfectly you draw its shape. And then they decide to make you do some timed mission where you need to be absolutely perfect with these spells because making one mistake means you won't have enough time to finish. And of course, because the spell casting is broken, you will be making many, many mistakes.

Oh, and not to mention that it's loaded down with way too much pointless dialog. In the event that I actually wanted to play any more Okami, I probably couldn't, because Isun won't shut the hell up about random nonsense that I don't care about.

Yep. I will never see Okami as art. I will only see it as another shining example of how NOT to make a game. In fact, that's my general rule for whether or not I think a game is art. If it just looks pretty but isn't any fun to play, it's not art. It's just a bad game with nice graphics. A game that is art should be a good game to play as well, not just a good game to watch gameplay videos of. Remember, you're making an interactive experience, not a painting or a movie.

But hey. Everyone's mileage will vary depending on what they think makes something art in general, and what they think a game should do to reach that standard. Maybe that's what we should be discussing here. Forget about Flower: Why don't we talk about what we each think makes a game art? And you can say if Flower fits that or not.

Liberaliter said:
I don't see how Flower is art more than any other game, apparently making your game as pretentious and indie as possible is the best way to become 'art'.
Hello, Braid. :p
 

Continuity

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Lagslayer said:
I respond to the "artsy game" debate with this:
"artsy" is a style, I think its important to distinguish between a style and a basic classification. I.e. computer games are an art form, and some computer games are in the artsy style.
 

Nutcase

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http://insomnia.ac/commentary/is_games_art/

"Flower is a game that is based on the greatest art ever to have been made in the world, which is the film 'American Beauty'. In 'American Beauty', there is a bit where a plastic bag blows around in the wind for a bit. This is the beauty to which the title refers, and also a metaphor for life. In Flower, you blow around in the wind for a bit and then I couldn't understand how to get to the next level. It is difficult, like all great art."

In the same essay, on the game "Passage":

"This is probably the most art it is possible for a game to be."

So that's your question answered, OP. Flower is not the closest to art as games will get.
 

Katana314

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Games can have "art" in them. ie, a horrible game that has a cutscene worthy of awards.

However, games AS art should focus on the gameplay mechanics, and how it interacts with the player. If there's not much to speak of there, then I wouldn't call it "games as art".

As an example, Braid comes close because all its parts of the storyline very directly tie into the game mechanics. "If only I could go back and correct mistakes ---> Press LT to go back in time."
 

KILGAZOR

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Dec 27, 2010
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Oh lord, it's this thread again....

Games are art because they should be protected under the first amendment. Otherwise whether or not games are art does not fucking matter.

Also, if you're going to call one thing more art than another, then you are totally missing the point of art.
 

ronald1840

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I downloaded Flower from th PSN about a couple weeks back. I don't regret purchasing it except wish it wasn't $10 maybe $5-8. As I was going through the levels I had to go answer the door for a second. When I came back, my Mom was staring at the screen asking me, "How'd you get a screensaver on that thing?

Flower isn't any more artistic than Gears Of War, the only difference is how it throws its visuals in your face to relax. Well the sole reason I thought games were played in the first place was to get EXCITED, and ENGAGED. Its not a game, more or less a playable tech demo for 'Journey'(their first real game).

As for the future? Well there are two titles that will end the artistic argument for good...

Bioshock Infinite & The Last Guardian
 

Saelune

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Every game is art, or no such thing as art exists. The only reason this argument exists is because of pretentious people. What the argument should be is the quality of the art. There is good art, bad art, interesting art, provocative art, e.t.c.
I swear, if some lines on a piece of paper can be art, then even Gears of War is a master piece.
 

Hiphophippo

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Flower is just a game. But games are art. All of them. How can something composed entirely of disparate art assets NOT be art in it's finished form?

I'm a big proponent of games-as-art but the entire concept of "art games" rubs me the wrong way. If you follow.