Poll: Is it sexist to think it's worse (as a man) to hit a woman than another man?

Raven's Nest

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Erm, depends why they hit me...

Not that i've even really been in a proper fist fight but If for example, I found myself in a bar fight with a bloke and a random unnassociated woman walks over and punches me in the face "just because", I think i'd punch her back.

If I was already in a heated argument with a woman who started to get violent then no. But if they showed no signs of calming down despite my not hitting them, i'd consider a swift slap around the face.

Anyone who thinks they can be violent to someone because they think they are immune to the consequences deserves to get it handed back to them whether they be male or female.

Besides, just because a woman is *statisically* weaker than a man, doesn't mean they are all made of glass. I think as long as you are being moderate in your response, you aren't doing anything morally or ethically wrong... Sexism shouldn't really come in to it.
 

Blackjack 222

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Daystar Clarion said:
Imat said:
omicron1 said:
I think this falls not under sexism, but chivalry. Racism/sexism/otherism tends to be applied to negative attitudes towards those deemed inferior, while positive attitudes/actions don't fall under the same label. If you're not hitting a girl because "it wouldn't be worth it" or similar, that might be sexism, but if you're not hitting a girl because you're trying to be nice - even if you're just trying to be nice to her because of her gender - it's not really sexist at all.
Many say that chivalry is, itself, sexist, a statement which I, myself, reject outright.

Chivalry in the Middle Ages may have been sexist as many claim, I really can't put myself in the mindset of an 1100's knight with nothing better to do than chase after women using the power of charm and subservience (to an extent), but I can say that I try to be what I believe to be "chivalrous" towards women, and not all of them appreciate it. Chivalry isn't about "protecting the weaker sex" or "helping women do things they couldn't possibly do on their own, because they're women," the objective is to help for the sake of being a gentleman, to do something which may not be in any way directly beneficial to yourself because you want to be a nice guy or a good person. Chivalry is not sexist, nor is it dead. There are simply noticeably fewer practitioners of this worthy art.
I agree. Chivalry isn't just directed towards women either, at least I don't think it is? I hold doors open for men and women, both young and old and it's amazing how many people don't thank me for it (not that I do it for the recognition).
I remember doing that at the mall once. The party of old people all thanked me and said stuff like "So nice to see young men like this isn't it howard?" and a women slapped me saying it was insulting to do such a thing.

You do NOT want to know what happened last time i held an umbrella over the head of a woman in an expensive suit when it was pooring down rain...
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Richter_Kleiss said:
Okay, I get Daystar's point. Eh...

Chivalry = Being polite to others?
I think it pretty much means just being a gentleman, see the 'gentle' in there? Solving disputes with words not fists, regardless of gender.

It also helps if you're wearing a top hat...
 

BlumiereBleck

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No, it's called being a gentleman. If people wanna go around hitting woman and say "Its just the same!" Go ahead....savages!!!!!
 

TWRule

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Charley said:
TWRule said:
It's not necessarily sexism, but probably sexual discrimination (there is a difference).

If you don't hit a woman merely -because- she is a woman and for no other reason (let's say she was the exact physical proportions, disposition, etc of a man that you'd hit), then yes you are discriminating based solely on sex.

It's not sexism as long as you don't make some sort of value judgement than women are inherently inferior to men in some way (at least, according to wikipedia).
So (no judgements here) are we saying that if someone was actively sexually discriminating -not- to hit someone that would be a bad thing?

Would the same apply if you chose not to hit a child or an elderly person (from an age perspective)?
No, discrimination isn't inherently bad - even though most people use the word with negative connotations. But it does warrant examination of why you would discriminate on something as arbitrary as sex. As soon as you say "well I don't hit women because women are always weaker than me" you're making a value judgement.
 

Dimitriov

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Whether or not it is sexist is hard to say, for the record I voted no, because to me this is one of those things doesn't apply in quite the same way as other things do.

For example even if women and men are equal in rights and basic human dignity, which I certainly think they are, that does not mean that they are identical, obviously there are differences. If I as a heterosexual male find women sexually attractive and not men then there are obviously going to be situations where I will treat women differently based on their gender or vice versa.

In similar way there are situations where it is at the least culturally and traditionally acceptable for two men to settle things physically. I for one don't think our modern age of letting lawyers and courtrooms get involved in every little dispute is a good thing.

Ultimately I think it comes down to a sexual not a sexist thing. However cultured and advanced we may have become as a species there are still parts of us that want to react in animal ways and one of those is the natural competition between people of the same gender. So that while it is certainly not right there are situations where it is understandable for a man to hit another man and less so to hit a woman. How subjects like different sexualities and the perception of gender would affect this would make for an interesting discussion though.

Anyway that's my rather long-winded two cents.
 

Dragunai

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when I was like 12 I twisted a girls arm and hurt her enough to make her cry, the guilt of doing that still disturbs me today. Just to clarify, I didn't just walk up to her and twist her arm, it was some play fight or she was attacking me for some actual reason and I grabbed her arm and I guess I got carried away (Dont actually remember what the reason was) but the fact I made her cry was enough to echo in my head and I have always kept my strength in check as a result with my gfs when we play fight and so on.

***

I think sexism is more like "Why is she building a career instead of staying in the kitchen?" as opposed to men following their instincts which, like it or not, dictate that we like to protect women, and on that note saying that you feel wrong about hitting a woman as a man is just your inherant mental programming and therefore can't really be tagged as sexist.

In fact I think the only women who would say You're a sexist jerk are the same chicks who get angry because you held a door open for them or the ones who yell at you because you stepped back and let her get on the bus 1st etc. You know, the "I am a woman and dont need a man" sorta chicks who get really pissy when guys show the slightest bit of respect to them.

I still like to think that as a healthy man that when I open a door for a girl or step back and let her go ahead of me in a que or something like that, that they appreciate it and don't feel as if I am patronising them due to their gender. That said healthy girls tend to aknowledge those actions as male respect toward a female and they do appreciate it.

Actually this reminds me, I went into town on friday for an appointment. Afterwards I went to a bakery (Greggs for those of you who live in the UK) and I got some coffee and some pasteries for myself and my dad. I asked the girl at the counter "Do you take cards?" she said no so I asked if it was ok if I ran to an ATM and got some cash, she said it was fine.


So I hauled ass to an atm, ran back and went back to the counter where my coffee and bags with the food in it were clearly visible and this old bastard starts yelling at me because I que jumped and then insulted me with something about "Decentcy not being in my nature" upon which I said "This is my stuff" and motioned to the counter where my things where. Of course being an old man with a self righteous attitude he just kept whining and then this chick who had been in the que when I ran out the store starts saying "No I saw him, he did que he just ran to get some money" and the old guy KEPT whining not listening, she told him 3 times and it sunk in. Then she said "I think you need to apologise to him," to the old guy who just looked at the coke fridge and KEPT WHINING having realised he was wrong.

He didnt apologise but I looked at the girl, made eye contact and gave her a nod and said thanks to which she smiled back.

The point of that story is that its not always men that need to take a defensive high ground when it comes to aggressive situations. I'm not a conflictive sort of person, I like to walk away from arguements, that and it was nice that a total stranger stood up for me... and she was kinda hot haha.
 

Charley

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Apr 12, 2008
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Long-winded two cents are a good thing. These last couple of posts are interesting.

From my perspective, I don't believe I'm making a value judgement on the qualities of a woman by believing I shouldn't hit her, at least I'm not doing so deliberately, outside of being taught that it wasn't the done thing.

I think it boils down to a choice thing - if I hit a woman when I didn't absolutely have to do so, then I'd consider that wrong. If I hit a woman because she was (say) going to stab me or someone dear to me, I wouldn't consider that the same thing.

I wouldn't be proud of myself for hitting a man, and I've never been in any significant kind of conflict, but I still think that shame factor would be built-in.
 

Charley

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Xojins said:
Short answer: Yes, it is sexist.
Can we have the long answer that includes your reason, please? That's the point of this thread - there's clearly a divide here, and just throwing in a 'yes' or 'no' isn't helping the discussion a great deal.

Thank
 

Merkavar

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ofcourse its sexist. you making a dicision based on someones gender.

but sexism isnt always a bad thing.

dont get me wrong if some chick is fighting me ill probably hit them. if its my only option

Charley said:
Now, I personally think that's pretty wrong from the outset, I'm not a fan of actual (i.e. non-fictional) violence (against anyone) - it's unnecessary.

because we're supposed to have evolved past men throwing their physical weight around.
unnecessary? violence is completely necessary, to defend your self and others. have you never been bullied at school etc?

also the whole men are stronger thing and shouldnt throw their weight around is so old fashion. Its like from back in the day were all men worked the fields and laboured all day and women did the laundry. Now a days men and women can be stronger and weaker than each other. men might be on average stonger than women but alot of women are stronger than men. so i think that arguement is invalid.
 

Bihac

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trueluigi7 said:
I would never hit a woman, except if it was Self-Defense of myself or another person,
So you would hit a male for other reasons?

Anyway, to clarify, personally, while I practice martial arts and this means that I spar with both men and women, and we do pull our punches for sparring, I do not pull my punch any more for one group than the other.

In any other conflict, I simply believe that, you should meet the opponents intended force with your own, irrelevant of their gender.

Finnaly I am in now way condoning attacking members of either gender for no reason, force should only be used in self defense.
 

Geo88

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Jul 20, 2010
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interspark said:
i think violence is never justified (unless you count sporting events), but i don't think it's any worse hitting a woman than a man, unless you actually take advantage of a woman's (for want of a better word) weakness to have your own way, that's just dispicable! in cases of domestic violence i think those people are the lowest kinkd of scum, but if, hypothetically (because i dont actually think it's ever happened) a man were the victim of domestic violence, that would be equally bad
Men are abused by their wives a lot more often than people think. From what I can find, at least 10 percent of all cases of spousal abuse are perpetrated by the wife. I've seen two studies that claim that it's almost an even split, with 50 percent of perpetrators being male and 50 percent being female. There's a huge stigma that comes with men turning in their wives, so it often goes unreported and the men just endure it.

OT: Is it bad to think that it's worse to hit a woman than a man? I guess it depends on the situation. If it's self-defense, then yes, I think it's discriminatory. If a woman initiates violence, then she'd better be ready to defend herself. I don't buy into the idea that it's not OK to hit a woman under any circumstances (with self-defense being the exception to not hurting a woman). In that given situation, I'd like to try restraining my assailant first, but if that failed, I'd have no issue fighting back to protect myself.

HOWEVER! If a man is STARTING the fight, then I see myself being more upset if the target is a woman simply because the average female isn't as physically strong as the average male. It feels kind of like bullying or picking on smaller kids in elementary school. I dunno if that's sexist, it's just how I feel about it. (Obviously, the case changes if the man and woman both have the same physical strength and stamina or are trained to fight, but measuring that is kind of tough. Those are just my thoughts as a general rule.)
 

CardinalPiggles

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Raven said:
Erm, depends why they hit me...

Not that i've even really been in a proper fist fight but If for example, I found myself in a bar fight with a bloke and a random unnassociated woman walks over and punches me in the face "just because", I think i'd punch her back.

If I was already in a heated argument with a woman who started to get violent then no. But if they showed no signs of calming down despite my not hitting them, i'd consider a swift slap around the face.

Anyone who thinks they can be violent to someone because they think they are immune to the consequences deserves to get it handed back to them whether they be male or female.

Besides, just because a woman is *statisically* weaker than a man, doesn't mean they are all made of glass. I think as long as you are being moderate in your response, you aren't doing anything morally or ethically wrong... Sexism shouldn't really come in to it.
fully agree
 

Mr. Omega

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I won't hit anyone unless they hit me. But if they do hit me, man or woman, I won't hesitate to hit back.
 

Om Nom Nom

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A modern reason for not hitting a woman would be that women take more pride in their physical appearance than men (rule-of-thumb, there are some vain men about, and slobbish women) and as such physical marks from violence would cause a fair bit more distress than simple pain.