Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits

370999

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I like them both.

Jim is what Moviebob should be, funny and insightful while ridiculous and over the top. Cheesy and good fun and occasionally, just occasionally you might gain a new insight.

Extra Credits does a good job of examining a particular issue and offering a solution. I really love how they try to avoid sensationalism or overt bias. I get the feeling they actually want to promote understanding of an issue rather then make a video which is intended to brow beat people to their side. They are what MovieBob thinks he is but isn't.
 

G-Force

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JamesStone said:
The EC crew is just pretentious. Jim does that "exagerated god-complex" thingy to create a fake persona, to make us laugh a little so we can view the point he is trying to make. Extra Credits are just pretentious.

Too preachy and never even admitting it. At least sometimes Jim does say that he either won't talk much about something because he is biased, or when he does, he says that he respects the people who disagree with him. Extra Credits never does this.

I liked EC once. I hated Jim before. Now he improved his show and trought His example he made me see what EC really were: pretentious douches trying to cover it up with false niceness and condescense. Thank God for Jim (hehehehe).
Define pretentious and how EC is an example of this. I see a series of videos done in an academic style that are well spoken, well researched and very structured and completely lacking in personal insults, swearing and slurs. EC takes its points and presents them in the style of a thesis or a lecture complete with bullet points and sources cited. How is presenting information in a respectful, academic style pretentious? If anything it shows a very positive portrayal of gamers.
 

mjc0961

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James Ennever said:
Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.
They think Gears of War is a first person shooter, so the only thing I can say to this is "no fucking shit."

I pity anyone who watches Extra Credits and thinks that the people who make it actually have any idea what they're talking about. Not being able to tell the difference between first and third person not only shows a complete lack of ignorance regarding games, but a complete lack of ignorance in general. First and third person viewpoints aren't just a gaming thing, and not being able to tell the difference show that they're just stupid in general.
 

370999

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G-Force said:
JamesStone said:
The EC crew is just pretentious. Jim does that "exagerated god-complex" thingy to create a fake persona, to make us laugh a little so we can view the point he is trying to make. Extra Credits are just pretentious.

Too preachy and never even admitting it. At least sometimes Jim does say that he either won't talk much about something because he is biased, or when he does, he says that he respects the people who disagree with him. Extra Credits never does this.

I liked EC once. I hated Jim before. Now he improved his show and trought His example he made me see what EC really were: pretentious douches trying to cover it up with false niceness and condescense. Thank God for Jim (hehehehe).
Define pretentious and how EC is an example of this. I see a series of videos done in an academic style that are well spoken, well researched and very structured and completely lacking in personal insults, swearing and slurs. EC takes its points and presents them in the style of a thesis or a lecture complete with bullet points and sources cited. How is presenting information in a respectful, academic style pretentious? If anything it shows a very positive portrayal of gamers.
If I may say so, I think some of the smarter arguments for their pretensions is not in their side but rather that what they are attempting to do is something that they are not capable of, that are under a delusion of their ability to analyses certain issues when they aren't able to.

Not an argument I believe but there is some merit.
 

squid5580

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LastGreatBlasphemer said:
The industry should pay attention to the customers they are losing.
I am going to side with EC on this one and say that we are a community, and we are a moderated community. With as much sexual harassment that goes on unpunished Microsoft could honestly be sued. They could be sued for not only allowing the behavior, but due to the lack of punishment actually encouraging said behavior.
The XBLA community is a paid service, and you do not pay to be harassed, so they either need to start cracking down on it, or they need to start providing tools to deal with it. Just hoping it stops is NOT an option at 15 dollars a month, and we see all too often what happens when bullying goes too far.

This is a real issue, and we need to start making progress in these respects. If I were walking down the road one day and a dude was telling a woman to be productive and go suck some dude's cock I would deck him. Through the internet that's not an option, so there need to be options, and guess how often reporting works.
The tools are already provided. You have a mute function. A block communication function. And an avoid player function. Not to mention a report function. What more do you want? A punch player in the dick function? If you are old enough to use the service you should be mature enough to use these tools without mommy MS intervening.
 

airrazor7

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Who should the industry pay attention to? Both!
Extra Credits and Jim Sterling can't even be compared to each other.

Jim pretty much discusses the mood of the industry by giving his two cents about any event and the reactions to said event of the professionals and consumers alike. Every now and then he does get technical about the business aspects of the industry but for the most part he's a journalist who specializes in selling his educated opinion.

Extra Credits will talk about events and recent activities of certain businesses from time to time but most of the time they are discussing the process of game creation and development.
 

Baldr

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Jan 6, 2010
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You may disagree or agree with this episode, but it does do a good job of explaining both sides of the issue:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s13e12-the-f-word
 

linwolf

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G-Force said:
JamesStone said:
The EC crew is just pretentious. Jim does that "exagerated god-complex" thingy to create a fake persona, to make us laugh a little so we can view the point he is trying to make. Extra Credits are just pretentious.

Too preachy and never even admitting it. At least sometimes Jim does say that he either won't talk much about something because he is biased, or when he does, he says that he respects the people who disagree with him. Extra Credits never does this.

I liked EC once. I hated Jim before. Now he improved his show and trought His example he made me see what EC really were: pretentious douches trying to cover it up with false niceness and condescense. Thank God for Jim (hehehehe).
Define pretentious and how EC is an example of this. I see a series of videos done in an academic style that are well spoken, well researched and very structured and completely lacking in personal insults, swearing and slurs. EC takes its points and presents them in the style of a thesis or a lecture complete with bullet points and sources cited. How is presenting information in a respectful, academic style pretentious? If anything it shows a very positive portrayal of gamers.
Being pretentious is making usually unjustified or excessive claims, and EC do this all the time. They make a lot of unsupported claims and makes way to may mistakes for a show build on enlighten people. From simple stuff, see calling GoW a FPS. Things that misleading, see comparing the start of Skyrim with the start of CoD without telling it is not the start of CoD they are showing. To just stating there opinion as facts and build conclusions there are invalid because of it, see their JRPG episode for example of this.
A show especially one the will inform have to make way clear when they are using opinions and making speculations and EC are more than bad at this, they hide them as facts.
I have no problem with a person consider themselves more inform than others, but they have earn that right by being better, making few mistakes and not spreading misinformation.
 

Elamdri

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coldfrog said:
Elamdri said:
I think the reason why Jim Sterling is so popular is that he says things that people already want to hear. It's mass market entertainment. While there is nothing particularly WRONG with that, I don't know that it necessarily lends anything to looking at how to improve the industry. The problem with something being popular is that it doesn't equate to being good.
Yes! This is my thought exactly!

When I watch Jim, I feel his show does little more than to deliver a one-line statement in an envelope of jokes. When you've stripped away the packaging, all that's left is that one line, with no elaboration or examination of the message itself. Whether I agree with it or not, I get little feeling as to WHY I should agree or disagree. Even when I disagree with Extra Credits, I can at least feel like they've put forth a cogent argument as to why they think that way, as opposed to grabbing at any hot-button issue and pounding it home with exclamations and vulgarity.

And for the record, I'm not against vulgarity and exclaiming things, but my problem is, I don't find Jim entertaining, and so I don't care for him, even if he says something I agree with. On the other hand, I don't have to look to Extra Credits for entertainment or even for agreeing with, as I find I usually learn something from their discussions.

Also, I feel comparing the two is unfair, as they have very different aims in their videos.
In all Fairness, the Original post wasn't about which show was BETTER (in which case comparing two different shows is pointless) but rather which show should the industry pay attention to (In which case comparing two different shows matters because one might be more relevant).
 

Elamdri

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mjc0961 said:
James Ennever said:
Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.
They think Gears of War is a first person shooter, so the only thing I can say to this is "no fucking shit."

I pity anyone who watches Extra Credits and thinks that the people who make it actually have any idea what they're talking about. Not being able to tell the difference between first and third person not only shows a complete lack of ignorance regarding games, but a complete lack of ignorance in general. First and third person viewpoints aren't just a gaming thing, and not being able to tell the difference show that they're just stupid in general.
Since when wasn't GoW an FPS? Did they suddenly add a bunch of overly angsty characters with ridiculous hair and a leveling system? Or did they make it so now you drive around all the time and race other CoGs around a track for money? Or maybe it's now a game where you create a CoG base and build CoG soliders and send them to fight the Locust.
 

Baldr

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mjc0961 said:
James Ennever said:
Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.
They think Gears of War is a first person shooter, so the only thing I can say to this is "no fucking shit."

I pity anyone who watches Extra Credits and thinks that the people who make it actually have any idea what they're talking about. Not being able to tell the difference between first and third person not only shows a complete lack of ignorance regarding games, but a complete lack of ignorance in general. First and third person viewpoints aren't just a gaming thing, and not being able to tell the difference show that they're just stupid in general.
It common in the industry to lump fps, tps, sbs, and any other shooter type mechanic in the shooter or fps category.
 

370999

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Elamdri said:
mjc0961 said:
James Ennever said:
Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.
They think Gears of War is a first person shooter, so the only thing I can say to this is "no fucking shit."

I pity anyone who watches Extra Credits and thinks that the people who make it actually have any idea what they're talking about. Not being able to tell the difference between first and third person not only shows a complete lack of ignorance regarding games, but a complete lack of ignorance in general. First and third person viewpoints aren't just a gaming thing, and not being able to tell the difference show that they're just stupid in general.
Since when wasn't GoW an FPS? Did they suddenly add a bunch of overly angsty characters with ridiculous hair and a leveling system? Or did they make it so now you drive around all the time and race other CoGs around a track for money? Or maybe it's now a game where you create a CoG base and build CoG soliders and send them to fight the Locust.
First person means the use of "I" in literature. In gaming it means that you see things from the characters eyes as in the camera shows what they would be seeing. Mirror's edge/skyrim are first person games.

third person "he/she/it" is when you can see the character on the screen. The camera usually is hovering over their shoulder. Mario and Mass Effect are thrid person.

Gears is a third person shooter in that we always have the camera hover over the protagonist.
 

Something Amyss

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Jerry Pendleton said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Another thing: Jim Sterling is a gamer. Extra Credits are games journalists. Big difference.
You can't be serious. You mean the guy who's an editor at Destructoid is not a games journalist and the guys who preach that understanding the media includes playing the media are not gamers?
The guys at Extra Credits are actually game developers and/or artists.
Errr...I don't think that has anything to do with them as journalists.
 

Elamdri

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370999 said:
Elamdri said:
mjc0961 said:
James Ennever said:
Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.
They think Gears of War is a first person shooter, so the only thing I can say to this is "no fucking shit."

I pity anyone who watches Extra Credits and thinks that the people who make it actually have any idea what they're talking about. Not being able to tell the difference between first and third person not only shows a complete lack of ignorance regarding games, but a complete lack of ignorance in general. First and third person viewpoints aren't just a gaming thing, and not being able to tell the difference show that they're just stupid in general.
Since when wasn't GoW an FPS? Did they suddenly add a bunch of overly angsty characters with ridiculous hair and a leveling system? Or did they make it so now you drive around all the time and race other CoGs around a track for money? Or maybe it's now a game where you create a CoG base and build CoG soliders and send them to fight the Locust.
First person means the use of "I" in literature. In gaming it means that you see things from the characters eyes as in the camera shows what they would be seeing. Mirror's edge/skyrim are first person games.

third person "he/she/it" is when you can see the character on the screen. The camera usually is hovering over their shoulder. Mario and Mass Effect are thrid person.

Gears is a third person shooter in that we always have the camera hover over the protagonist.
I know, I was picking on him for being anal. Most people use the term FPS to describe First and Third Person Shooters.
 

Iszfury

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EC is thoughtful, educational, and well-composed, Jim is a practiced activist and has a very down-to-earth, common man's approach a lot of gamers seem to associate with.
Yahtzee is just...
Lovely. Everybody loves Yahtzee. You don't even need to take him seriously. You can generally enjoy his commentary without outright agreeing with the points he makes.
All three are excellent journalists, with their individual flaws and strengths.
I don't get the hate.
 

Saxnot

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James Ennever said:
Gatx said:
I was on the fence about Jim initially but stuck around cause he made good points, and he's definitely gotten better. For the life of me I cannot look at the pictures though, so I just listen to it as a podcast.

Naqel said:
Jim has his feet on the ground, EC have their heads in the clouds. We need both for gaming to be "tall", so to speak.
That's beautiful.
Ditto
Thirded

Jim has an instanced viewpoint: he sees a news item he doesn't like, and then he adresses it, calling people on their bullshit and then talking about something new next week

Extra credits has a structural viewpoint: they see a larger problem facing the industry, try to analyse it and come up with solutions.

no absolutes of course, but that seems the general tendency to me.
both have their place.
 

Eventidal

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I like how the people slamming EC and praising Jim are almost exclusively complete assholes about it.

I think for myself. I like both EC and Jim. I think Jim is a bit too direct and rant-y and opinionated and doesn't so much present the opposing arguments as barrel right over them without giving much of a reason for it. EC isn't supposed to be funny and entertaining, though. They say what needs to be said, and they get information out there. They ruminate on various problems and topics relevant to people who actually care about the industry, rather than idiots looking to slam ME3's ending one more time. They actually care to make a good point, argue it well and bring up the opposing viewpoints. When something isn't an absolute, they don't deliver it like that's what it is. Publishers aren't always bad, but that doesn't mean they never do good, etc. Jim would just steamroll right over that little detail...

But yeah, I enjoy both, and for different reasons. EC has been very helpful and insightful for me as a designer, and I never feel like they're talking down to me. Honestly, I would love to meet James. The man is simply inspirational. The whole EC team has done nothing but good, and the show is a huge help for the industry. Jim could be helpful for the industry, but his videos are far from proper messages to be taken directly to the offending companies/games/people involved. EC is the only one of the two that's delivered in a way that can be taken seriously and not as an inflammatory message.
 

IamGamer41

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Apparently if Jim Sterling cant figure out the controls on a game hes gives it a low score.See Witcher 2 Assassins of Kings review if you don't believe me.If he got ran over by a flaming bus full of illegal aliens bound for Canada I wouldn't shed a tear.

Never watched EC so I cant say but they have to be better then that fathead Sterling.