Poll: Let's settle something right now, can you defend yourself with a gun?

[Starik20X6]

Not really. It's not defence per se, it's more countering the threat/committing of violence with the threat/committing of more violence. A shield is for defence. A bulletproof vest is for defence. A gun is for attacking.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

There's been this discussion in the Religion and Politics section of the forum and it concerns this. Can you use a gun to defend yourself? At least one person claimed it's a myth and that it never happens.
My take on it? Yeah you can, to take it a bit further you can also defend your home with one. The person I argued with said it never ever happens, he also said that if someone breaks into your home that you can't shoot them. Where I live if someone breaks into your house that is your castle and they just breached the walls so you can defend your property.

... huh?

If you asking "if someone breaks into my home with a weapon, am I allowed to shoot them?" then the answer, if you live in the USA, is "yes".

Is it possible that the person you were talking with was from outside the USA? They might have different laws elsewhere regarding that.

On the other hand, there is the philosophical issue. Can you defend yourself with a gun? No - you can only shoot someone else. Guns can't block other guns - a gun can't be used to defend against an attack. A sword can parry blows from another sword. It can be used defensively.

What a gun CAN do is shoot first, killing (or at least hurting) the assailant before that assailant hurts you. Alternatively, it can be used to frighten off an assailant. Guns are scary.

But again, that's a philosophical point - when people say "defend a house" they mean by shooting the intruder, which as noted is exactly what they can be used to do (assuming the laws in your area allow such a thing).

As to whether or not guns are effective at home defense... I'm not touching that with an three meter pole.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

You can in a few very unlikely scenarios, most of those scenarios where shooting someone would be overkill and should get you arrested.
The only time a gun would be useful is if someone is trying to kill you and is bad enough at it to give you time to shoot them. If you are getting mugged and shoot someone, you deserve jail time. Whats more important? Your wallet or someones life?

Do criminals come up and truthfully announce their intentions to you? How are you supposed to tell the difference between a mugging and a rape until the time when drawing a gun is possible has passed? Maybe people should just not rob other people if they don't want to get shot...

You can in a few very unlikely scenarios, most of those scenarios where shooting someone would be overkill and should get you arrested.
The only time a gun would be useful is if someone is trying to kill you and is bad enough at it to give you time to shoot them. If you are getting mugged and shoot someone, you deserve jail time. Whats more important? Your wallet or someones life?

Honestly? If someone is going to threaten my life over my wallet, I am more than willing to threaten their life over the transgression, then end their life if they decide to press the issue.

The one time I have had to draw my gun, drawing it was enough to discourage further discourse along that particular path.

If they are armed then it changes things a little, but lets not get into the stupidity of allowing everyone a gun. I was thinking along the lines of the offender being unarmed because anywhere with proper laws that is all that normally happens.

 

[Flames66]

I have never touched a gun. I would like to at some point go to a Rifle range and shoot up dem target and pigeons.

I would like to think I could if I had to. I have used BB guns and and quite good with a bow.

 

[gufftroad]

In the USA yes you can legally defend yourself with a firearm. I keep several loaded guns in various places (spent the last three years in a neighborhood infested with tweakers). I have had to draw them twice, once when a guy tried to come through my window and once when a a small group of people busted down the back door to my garage, without firing a shot.

unfortunately in states like CA without a castle doctrine or stand your ground law its better to shoot to kill because:
1 warning shots are illegal and are considered reckless endangerment and unlawful discharge and will land you in jail
2 people can sue you for damages and dead men cant sue

People can blather on about how people don't need guns, but I can attest to the need. I have used them in self defense. Untill you are in a situation were you truly need to defend yourself, who are you to tell me i cant. Try waking up in the middle of the night to your bedroom window busting in and tell me you don't want a gun.

 

[BishopofAges]

I guess that could work. If you're big enough to be a good threat with a melee weapon, and if there's only one intruder, and if you don't have floors that make no noise when you walk, and if your intruder is so bad at what he's doing that he just freezes up when he sees someone charging at him with a baseball bat.

Otherwise you're probably going to get shot if they have a gun, or their friend is going to pick up something blunt and hit you on the back of your head, or the guy is actually much better at fighting than you and will kick your ass. If they have a knife, even if you do beat them you'll probably have a few knife wounds on you. If they have a gun, unless you knock it out of their hands at the start, you're going to get shot. All if takes for them to take you out is to sort of point in your general direction and unload as many shots as possible. There was a news story of some guy in australia who was attacked out of nowhere by some muggers on the escapist a while ago. They hit him over the head with a bat i think, but he could still pull out his gun and kill them.

Don't underestimate how strong 'drop it now!' is. You can defend yourself against a wooden stick. You can't defend yourself against a gun. Even if they're right next to you and the gun is within arms reach, unless you have extensive training you're not going to disarm them without getting shot. If you get shot with a gun you're pretty much down. Maybe dead. All it takes is a movement of a finger.

I find your overabundant use of the word 'if' disturbing, I counted 11 uses, though one was an accident because you meant 'it'.

Your 'if' scenarios can be turned around in my favor too, you know. If I catch him/them off guard, they are usually beaten pretty good. If they are a terrible shot they are boned, the old axiom "Melee weapons don't run out of bullets". If they use knives, I have weapons to keep them at arms length, which still fit for fighting in even the smallest suburban home (sounds like Billy Mays when I say that) If they are intimidated by my size or alarming voice, they would usually flee. According to some studies done on home invasions thwarted by police or inhabitants, Burglars/home invaders are usually cowards (come at night, scared off by the home having a dog, an alarm company sticker, etc.)

Second, friend, the thread title was "can YOU defend yourself with a gun?" I answered honestly, and even more honestly I have to ask. If I took your post to heart, do you really think I would walk into a shop and take gun-self-defense-type classes with the reason being "A guy on the net swayed my belief with his wonderful 'if' statements"? Seriously, I am not trying to sound like a world-class-ass (though it is hard to convey a light-hearted comedic manner through text), but working through peoples replies and showing them 'the benefits of defense with guns' isn't really at topic here, its more about if we as a people can be honest with ourselves and say 'hey that robber dropped his gun, can I use it effectively to stop him from doing anything', I said no.

 

[jackinmydaniels]

Well, yes I suppose. If we're avoiding the politics behind it, I've shot plenty of guns in my time and I think, if it came down to it, I'd most certainly use one to hurt the bad guy before he could hurt me.

 

[StormShaun]

Well it depends really.

I do know how to use a...

A something Magnum.
A something Semi Auto pistol.

And the Australian ...

Spoiler

I forgot what it was called.... ARG!

The point is that yes I can defend myself with a gun, I wouldn't try to hit them in a critical location (If I'm that good)...

but we all have to remember...
captcha: "Safety first"

EDIT: Although it would be hard to fire... I mean I have never shot anyone before. :/

 

[Burst6]

I find your overabundant use of the word 'if' disturbing, I counted 11 uses, though one was an accident because you meant 'it'.

Your 'if' scenarios can be turned around in my favor too, you know. If I catch him/them off guard, they are usually beaten pretty good. If they are a terrible shot they are boned, the old axiom "Melee weapons don't run out of bullets". If they use knives, I have weapons to keep them at arms length, which still fit for fighting in even the smallest suburban home (sounds like Billy Mays when I say that) If they are intimidated by my size or alarming voice, they would usually flee. According to some studies done on home invasions thwarted by police or inhabitants, Burglars/home invaders are usually cowards (come at night, scared off by the home having a dog, an alarm company sticker, etc.)

Second, friend, the thread title was "can YOU defend yourself with a gun?" I answered honestly, and even more honestly I have to ask. If I took your post to heart, do you really think I would walk into a shop and take gun-self-defense-type classes with the reason being "A guy on the net swayed my belief with his wonderful 'if' statements"? Seriously, I am not trying to sound like a world-class-ass (though it is hard to convey a light-hearted comedic manner through text), but working through peoples replies and showing them 'the benefits of defense with guns' isn't really at topic here, its more about if we as a people can be honest with ourselves and say 'hey that robber dropped his gun, can I use it effectively to stop him from doing anything', I said no.

I wasn't talking about how good you think you are at defending yourself with a gun, i was replying about how you seem to underestimate how strong a gun can be in these situations and overestimate the effectiveness of clubs. Both of them may be equally effective against one idiot robbing your house, but if you stumble across two mentally unstable thugs looking at you a bat isn't going to protect you.

Also a robber may be a terrible shot, but they can get lucky. If they do get lucky, you're going to the hospital or worse. It's the same with knives. You may try to keep them at arms length as best as you can but fights get confused and frenzied. You may try to keep them a good length away but when you're both in an adrenaline feuled blur that knife may do damage to you. Yeah they may not get lucky and you may beat them into submission without getting a scratch, but it's a sizable risk. One that i personally wouldn't want to take.

EDIT: As you may have noticed, the new word of the day is "may". Hypotheticals, eh?

 

[StormShaun]

Snip

Ah, thank you good sir. I easily forget that rifle's name since I lasted fired it in 2010.
Also I did forgot to point out that guy did have a customized non-standard rifle.

All the less I did get to know the Steyr very well during 2010...
but shooting someone with THAT... well I just hope I wouldn't have to shoot a human with it.
Mutants may count.

Edit: Sorry I crapped up on the quote. :/

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

Well guns are illegal in my country so can't legally use them anyway and well I just wouldn't. I have taken some basic self defense classes so I can defend myself and am currently looking for a different class to take, I am thinking Krav Maga.


Guns kill and injure, it is their only purpose. Just bleh.

 

[Olas]

I don't own a gun, but if I did I imagine I'd be able to use it for self defense. You're allowed to shoot someone if it's in self defense and if a criminal came onto my property and did anything to threaten me it would be pretty easy to claim that.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I think the rifle name you are looking for is the Steyr Aug

It's an F88 AUSteyr variant (either F88S-A1 or F88 GLA), made locally by Thales Australia under licence from Steyr Mannlicher.

Though the soldiers rifle is heavily modified from the standard version.

Not really. The original F88 that has the integrated sight set up of the the Steyr AUG has pretty much been phased out of service with frontline combat units and replaced with the F88S series which replaces the integrated sight picatinny rail instead.

 

[BishopofAges]

I wasn't talking about how good you think you are at defending yourself with a gun, i was replying about how you seem to underestimate how strong a gun can be in these situations and overestimate the effectiveness of clubs. Both of them may be equally effective against one idiot robbing your house, but if you stumble across two mentally unstable thugs looking at you a bat isn't going to protect you.

Also a robber may be a terrible shot, but they can get lucky. If they do get lucky, you're going to the hospital or worse. It's the same with knives. You may try to keep them at arms length as best as you can but fights get confused and frenzied. You may try to keep them a good length away but when you're both in an adrenaline feuled blur that knife may do damage to you. Yeah they may not get lucky and you may beat them into submission without getting a scratch, but it's a sizable risk. One that i personally wouldn't want to take.

EDIT: As you may have noticed, the new word of the day is "may". Hypotheticals, eh?

I understand you getting an over and underestimation from my original post, but you need to understand is that I do not trust myself with a gun, period. In a moment of shock or rush I could turn around and shoot someone I didn't want to, or I could be holding a club and simply bonk someone I didn't want to. That's what I am more concerned about, my own craze level and adrenaline rush during an invasion does not optimize my using a gun in anyway.
Could I go into a class and learn to keep calm and focus during these situations? Yes, but I lack the funds to pay for such a class.
Do I trust myself with a stick more than I trust myself with a gun, yes.
Is there a risk to me not using the "Best point and shoot instant incapacitate/death item in the known world" during an invasion? Yes, but thankfully gun violence in my neighborhood is low and usually between people who know one another and have a severe disagreement or anger management problems.

as a side note I'd like to add that the big news these days is never on home invasion murders, they seem pretty rare except in the regional news about someone's ex-bf going nuts or something like that. The big topic these days is public gun violence, and I will also add that I do not trust myself in that situation even more because of bystanders and whatnot. In a bank robbery setting, I also fear that I'd be the guy in the washroom when it starts and end up whipping a fire extinguisher at the robber's head, but that is some Hollywood nonsense.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Being in California, I have the legal right, the personal ability and the equipment to handle most things that would invade my house.

Would I go for it? Depends on the situation.

If there was only one, I'd put a round in their leg. If there was one, but basically unarmed, I'd threaten and he'd run. Multiple unarmed, put a round in the leg of one, threaten others, continue firing as necessary. Multiple armed, probably just try and get out after quietly calling 911.

Given I felt I could take my attackers, I would use force before avoiding anything.

You can in a few very unlikely scenarios, most of those scenarios where shooting someone would be overkill and should get you arrested.
The only time a gun would be useful is if someone is trying to kill you and is bad enough at it to give you time to shoot them. If you are getting mugged and shoot someone, you deserve jail time. Whats more important? Your wallet or someones life?

Well that just depends on how much cash I have in there!

 

[gufftroad]

If there was only one, I'd put a round in their leg. If there was one, but basically unarmed, I'd threaten and he'd run. Multiple unarmed, put a round in the leg of one, threaten others, continue firing as necessary. Multiple armed, probably just try and get out after quietly calling 911.

Given I felt I could take my attackers, I would use force before avoiding anything.

Another thing I cant stand saying you should or even could shoot someone in the leg or arm. First of all I practice a lot, every weekend I put about 200 rounds down range with my handgun, which I use in competition and for home defense, I can hit about 2 inch groups at 25 meters. Now in action shoots I shoot about half as accurately and the only thing added is small movement and a timer. Imagine how much stress you are under being woken up, half asleep, and scared s***less because some one kicked in your door/window and tell me you have not only the presence of mind but also the ability to reliably hit a leg or arm. remember you are in your house so chances are this guy is less then a few yards away and can close that gap probably as fast as you could line up another shot for their leg/arm. I know I couldn't, I know most police couldn't hell most police officers only practice when they have to pass their qualifications that is why they are told to aim center mass and not for appendages because it isn't easy hitting a leg or arm.