Poll: Male reproductive rights

Devil's Due

New member
Sep 27, 2008
1,244
0
0
I don't agree with the contract idea (especially forcing an abortion is never the way to go), but I do have another. Simply when the child is born, give the father a choice. If he wishes to stay with the child and be able to be with them, he must pay the child support should the parents separate as long as he wishes to see the child. If he does not wish to see the child, he does not have to pay anything but cannot communicate with the child without the mother's consent and presence.

However, if the male was not legally informed of the birth of the child within six months after the child was born, he can not be held legally responsible for child support and he must decide to pay should he wish to visit the child or with the mother's consent. This issue is a gray area, as people say the guy has no rights since "he should have kept it in his pants," yet the girl is rarely blamed because she also gave into temptation is just as equally careless. Both parties have ups and downs for their decision, but no side should be blamed more harshly than the other.

This is all if both sides were consenting to the sexual intercourse. Condoms break, pills are forgotten, one side sabotages the control, etc. As long as it was consenting sexual intercourse, regardless if foul play in the controlling products to prevent pregnancies, then these conditions must be met. This way if a male doesn't want to pay the support for a child he never wanted, he doesn't have to, but he loses his right to basically visit his child.
 

Ryouma

New member
Feb 16, 2011
124
0
0
Ill start this reply with a appology for my english, if theres something thats unclear ill make it more clear.

Secondly ill start with a few exemples, and i want to se what you people think on them.

1:
Drunk sex, Before the sex the girl assures the man that she is on the pill and that its safe.
Its a one night thing they have sex, she lied and some time after she comes to the man and demand help / support / child support.

Is this ok?

2:
Not drunk sex, they are in a long term relation ship, the femal part knows the man do not want a child at the current time, she skips here pill cause she wants a kid, she ends up pregnant and now he is stuck with something that he did not want and in his eyes they where mutual on.

Is this ok?

3:
One night date sex, the man use condom + the girl is on the pill, both fails and she becomes pregnant, she is not taking an abortion and the man do not want a kid.

Is this ok?

In the world we live in today, this is "ok".
The man is stuck with responsibility that he do not wish or even tried to get [Asked about the pill / used condom / got tricked]

You can say over and over and over and over again that if the man do not want a kid well dont stick your cock where something might grow, but is that a good enough argument?

Sex in our days are most of the time used for pleasure and not pregnacy.

I wont say i agree with all points to the thread startet, but i do agree that today theres to little a man can do compare to what a woman can do if shit hits the fan [or the egg for that mather]

And keep in mind that in the 3 exemples, the man is doing the right thing.
1: The girl tricked him / lied about the pill
2: The girl stopped using the pill to trick him into getting a baby
3: The "safe" methods to not getting kid / condoms and pill malfunction
 

Nabirius

New member
Dec 29, 2009
135
0
0
I believe that it is never ok to impose your will and beliefs over someone else. I support reproductive rights for women, and by the same token I believe that no one should ever force a woman to have an abortion. If he doesn't want the child, then it's not his its her's and she should be free to make her own decisions. I understand the problem that a man may not be able to afford the child support, but honestly those are the consequences of his actions. In fact the implications of forced abortions are nightmarish in and of themselves.

Also an abortion is an extremely invasive procedure with many side effect, many women attempt suicide after receiving an abortion. I would imagine that being forced into an abortion would be worse than rape. There are also health risks to consider with the procedure other than severe trauma, and the idea that someone could force them to risk their own health in order to abort a fetus that they want to keep.
 

Kenko

New member
Jul 25, 2010
1,098
0
0
Don't impregnate women if you don't want children. Easy as pie. If she pulls the "Religion-card" just beat her dead with a bat and be done with it.
 
Sep 14, 2009
9,073
0
0
Kathinka said:
Chairman Miaow said:
Kathinka said:
Chairman Miaow said:
I would just like to point out, that at best, condoms are 99% effective. 1 in 100 chance of failing. How often does somebody in a stable relationship have sex? How many people are in stable relationships? How many people have one night stands and how often? that's a lot of unplanned pregnancies even if people use protection. People are far too judgemental over these things. If I got somebody pregnant because my condom failed, I would certainly want to be able to decide not to have it. I don't however think a man should be able to decide to have it if the woman wants it. Having the baby should be a consensus, not having it should be a right.
just saying: your number is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. condoms, correctly applied, have a pearl index of 2. meaning that out of 100 women who apply condoms correctly for A YEAR, 2 become pregnant.
still, condoms are not the safest bet. hormonal anticonception is preferable.
just wanted to point out that your numbers weren't righ by a longshot.
Fair enough,I didn't bother checking my sources, probably should have.
no problem, your point remains valid regardles. just had to fend for poor little condoms a little.
that's why i use a hormon implant. the chance of that thing not working is smaller than me getting hit by lightning.
*reads statement*

*thinking cap on*

"my mom was struck by lightning..and i was an accident...huh, small chances must be pretty coincidental!"
 

Sameleon

New member
Jun 28, 2011
6
0
0
I disagree with the idea suggested, but I do think that a male should get some form of choice. I think if the case of a male wanting to keep the child, and the female not wanting one, then the male has to pay the hospital bills and a home for her until the child is born, but after that the kid is all his. If the case of the male not wanting it and the female does, I suppose it depends on how the intercourse that made the child happened, like if it was willing on both sides or male on female rape, the guy doesn't have a say, but if the girl raped the male or sabotaged/lied about birth control then the male can leave without a female having a say
 

Epona

Elite Member
Jun 24, 2011
4,221
0
41
Country
United States
funguy2121 said:
Crono1973 said:
funguy2121 said:
This is a question for Dwangela.

Seriously, though, it's a ridiculous idea and will never happen in Western society. The man doesn't have to put his own health at risk and carry a human being inside of him for 9 months, and there are plenty of barren/gay parents out there who want to adopt a child. It's the woman's decision, case closed.
You know, one of the reasons that men die sooner is because they work more. So, all the extra hours he puts in to pay for a child he didn't want IS putting his health at risk.
Because raising a child isn't hard work? And you live in a society wherein women don't work, and work hard? Why do women have more medical problems per capita than us?

Also, men don't work hard for children they don't want. Deadbeat dads are deadbeat dads. And if an Escapist makes me invoke the law of identity one more time...
I've been a stay at home dad and went out to work and I'll take the stay at home dad anytime. Women work less hours and that they have more medical problems is true but are you blaming that on men or babies or why are you bringing it up.

Not wanting a child =/= deadbeat dad. Many dads didn't want a child but slave away to stay out of legal trouble. You need to wake up to reality.
 

Epona

Elite Member
Jun 24, 2011
4,221
0
41
Country
United States
Naal said:
Worker: I feel like skipping work today, and I'm not even going to bother calling in with a fake sick note.
Boss: Really? You're fired.
Worker: Unfair! You can't fire me just because I want to skip work and go against the rules of my Job Agreement Contract.

If you don't want to pay the consequences, don't do the deed. If you skip work you run the risk of being fired; Having sex runs the chance of getting pregnant (along with other things).
Ah yes but you are missing the other side of the story.

Worker: I am female.

Boss: Oh sorry about that, wouldn't want to be accused of discrimination. See ya tomorrow.
 

Epona

Elite Member
Jun 24, 2011
4,221
0
41
Country
United States
Verlander said:
Crono1973 said:
Verlander said:
Gotta love a bunch of upset middle class white teenagers throwing their toys out of the pram because they are obviously discriminated against by everyone and everything. This idea is ridiculous and unreasonable, and no human should have a contract over another humans physical or psychological life. That's what we in the industry refer to as slavery.
So does your rule here apply to men and their court ordered labor as slavery?
What court ordered labour? If they don't like having kids, they can leave. Hell, my old man moved to the other side of the world, I've never had a penny from him.

Frankly, they have a responsibility, but they don't have to take it.
You do know that courts order child support, don't you? You do know that men have to work for that money don't you?

Court ordered labor. Can't believe I had to explain that.
 

Death God

New member
Jul 6, 2010
1,754
0
0
.... um, no. I'm not going to go on a big, long and boringly lengthy post here so I'll just point out one example; If a woman is raped and wished to aport the child of a man who forced her to have sex with him unwillingly, she should have the right. And besides, the DNA comes from both the man and the woman. The man gives the seed and the woman feeds and nurtures the fetus. Sadly, this whole post seems a bit "troll-ish" to me though. So, make whaterev you guys will of this post.
 

Epona

Elite Member
Jun 24, 2011
4,221
0
41
Country
United States
Yellowbeard said:
You can't eliminate a double standard when only one gender gives birth.
Yes you can, let's not forget that the most important legal opt out women have that men do not have is granted by the government. Either the government makes that option illegal or it makes available an option for men to have a legal opt out. The government is also the driving force behind child support.

The government creates problems and it can solve them either by backing off or by making another law that makes things more equal.
 

Flare Phoenix

New member
Dec 18, 2009
418
0
0
Death God said:
.... um, no. I'm not going to go on a big, long and boringly lengthy post here so I'll just point out one example; If a woman is raped and wished to aport the child of a man who forced her to have sex with him unwillingly, she should have the right. And besides, the DNA comes from both the man and the woman. The man gives the seed and the woman feeds and nurtures the fetus. Sadly, this whole post seems a bit "troll-ish" to me though. So, make whaterev you guys will of this post.
Oh sure, if a woman gets raped the guy has absolutely no right to voice his opinion on any child that may have been conceived. The issue here is that if a woman should fall pregnant, the male is usually seen as a scumbag and should "pay for his actions" while the woman is seen as a delicate little flower that needs protecting - despite the fact it is insanely easy for a woman to trick a man into impregnating her.

Really, if someone doesn't want to raise a child they should have to pay child support, and it should work both ways. I'm not sure how child support currently works, but I believe it should be based on how much the person required to pay it is earning. For example, if a single mother is insanely rich and the father is living from paycheck to paycheck, I don't believe he should be required to pay child support as she really doesn't need it in that scenario.
 

Farther than stars

New member
Jun 19, 2011
1,228
0
0
wolas3214 said:
Contrary to what Christians would have you believe, people have sex for pleasure...
Woah, woah, woah! Back off! I'm a Christian and I'm trying to recall if there was ever a moment when I stated that sex did not deliver a euphoric response...
My point is, Christianity is a very widespread religion and that's a pretty sweeping statement you've got there. And although I don't want to get too off-topic, whether you believe in intelligent design or in evolution, wouldn't you agree that in both cases the pleasure stems from a reproductive stimulation? To say that people have sex for pleasure alone... I also find a rather sweeping statement.
In fact, since we are talking about sweeping statements anyway, what about some evidence which says that "most" pregnancies are "accidents"? I agree that in some cases the results can be bad for the child, but surely you don't want to suggest that these constitute the rule rather than the exception?
Also, I find it funny that in situations like these nobody seems to think about the future life of the child. People keep talking about women's rights (or in your case men's rights), seemingly discarding the fetus to irrelevence. And saying that the child might not want to live is, in my eyes, taking its free will to live away from it. And I think you'll find that should it come to be a human being, survival instinct will take over for itself.
But while I'm on the subject of discarding fetuses, did you know that a large percentage of women who undergo abortion suffer from psychological disturbances afterwards (including dillusional guilt)? And that's voluntary abortion; you're talking about forced abortions during which you're negating the old saying "never come between a mother and her child" and are effectively forcing negative stimulation on her "mothership instincts". Not only that, by forcing her body through something like that you're taking away all kinds of democratic liberties, including freedom over your own body (it's what makes the case for having an abortion so strong in the first place).
This handing over of your body to the state, coupled with the strict paperwork give a feeling of George Orwell's super dictatorship and that is indeed a frightening prospect, especially to artists and free-thinkers like here at the Escapist.
Luckily your proposal allienates most political groups. You alienate the left by imposing a certain family image ("what's next?" they'd say, "a law against divorce?"). And you alienate the right for suggesting forced abortions.
You alienate quite a lot of Christians (including me), by making this too clinical and you alienate rationalists by making society less viable, since you'd risk underpopulation in urban areas (if not everywhere) and the costs for a scheme like this would be of astronomical proportions.
So yeah... leave my democracy alone, please.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
48,836
0
0
meganmeave said:
If a man doesn't want a child, he should be able to have control over what happens to his genetic material
He kind of does. He just has to avoid putting his dick in things with receptive ovums.
/thread

It isn't impossible to not have sex, that's a myth created by men who make bad decisions and don't want to suffer the consequences.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
7,131
0
0
Jazzeki said:
Twilight_guy said:
Secondly, your argument is an argument for equal rights its an argument for reversing the sexist double standard. Whereas women in your argument have exclusive rights to controlling birth here, in your proposed solution men will have the exclusive right as woman can't have children without a man's consent.
actually it would be equall rights. the man can say no and the woman can say no. nowhere did he say only the man get's to decide. true the man has less of a conflict but the rights are equall.
Hum, I guess I misunderstood your argument then. Still it would be a nightmare to verify fathers deal with situations where the fathers is not known or doesn't care and would lead to many woman simply leaving the country to have their child if the situation is against them. Not to mention that it puts paper and bureaucracy over a natural part of human life and thus needs to be reviewed in occurrence with human rights documents. Man if you think the DMV is bad imagine what the department of human birth consent would be like... yessh. There are still lots of ethical questions to be asked on this but I suppose from a purely logical place its outside the box but works in theory. I still don't like it though.
 

Farther than stars

New member
Jun 19, 2011
1,228
0
0
Yellowbeard said:
You can't eliminate a double standard when only one gender gives birth.
Thank you! 0.0 This is incidentally what I keep trying to explain to feminists all the time: men and women are different physiologicall - you simply cannot create complete equality between two things which are not equal.