Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

ThatSwedishGuy

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Yes, it's gone too far. The complaints are justified but the manner in which they've been presented long since stopped being creative or constructive. The complaints have been voiced, Bioware has said "We hear you." and now it's time to sit back and wait and see what they come up with. Certain amounts of diplomacy is required here, they acknowledged hearing the complaints pretty early on, even with the leaked script, and if nothing else, Dr. Muzyka has now gone on record saying "We're looking into it." this the point where we shut up and wait for what they come up with.
 

Larmo

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May 20, 2008
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I think I'm in the Other camp, when i was playing the game i keep seeing threads pop up on the Escapist all talking about the ending and how people didn't like it, i refused to look any deeper for fear of spoilers. Then i got to the ending myself and after the credits started rolling i just st there confused and getting angrier and angrier, then i called my sister up who is a casual fan on ME knows the mythos fairly well and i bitched about it to her for an hour, she was in a patent mood.

But after i was done i felt much better and had a good laugh, the next day i looked up the forums and discovered that a lot of gamers felt the same, were demanding Boiware change the ending/Indoctrination theory/DLC the ending Ect it seemed like this forum is just one big vent brigade, everyone here was venting there frustration and like me once they are done they can step back and give some real perspective on the ending.

I didn't expect Shep to survive this is a cause worth dying for and i felt my character would be willing to do that, i would just like a small text crawl to say what happen to the universe or at least my allies after the battle, who went where and went on to do what, but maybe there saving the universe building for the next game set 500 years in the future or whatever.
 

Zack Alklazaris

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Oct 6, 2011
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I haven't finished yet so maybe this will change, but right now people need to get a grip. Its a game, not even your game. Grow up and realize not everything is about you.
 

Veldt Falsetto

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JediMB said:
Veldt Falsetto said:
I'm other because, while the ending is full of plot-holes and doesn't fit with the tone of the entire series, it's not worth fighting for. Good for you if you think Mass Effect is the best game series of all time but if this is Bioware's vision for the end then it's Bioware's decision to make it that way and we shouldn't change that.
You make it sound like BioWare is a person with a unified and clear vision of how the game should have ended.

In fact, though, BioWare's writers were debating back and forth how they were going to end the game, since they were forced to rewrite it after the original script leaked.

In November they still hadn't come up with a better ending, so the lead writer supposedly vetoed the other writers and pushed through the contradictory crap we got.
Obviously Bioware isn't one person.

May I ask, if anyone knows what the original ending was to share it?
 

Fishyash

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Dec 27, 2010
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Complacency is one of the things that embarasses me in the game industry. The fact that when the internet is in an uproar against something, people just brush it off as "gamer entitlement" or "childishness".

Jim's point is that at least people actually care about a game's story to complain about it if it is unsatisfactory. There are multiple reasons for this, personally I found it not only out of touch of the rest of the game(s) but it more or less contradicted Casey Hudson's statements on what the ending would be like.
 

Seses209

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Feb 23, 2012
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It's less about not getting the ending we wanted and more then ending going against everything the last 3 games have been hyping up to, and telling us (within th narrative). It's not only that it offers no closure (although that is certainly a problem) but that it is canonically inaccurate in a glaringly obvious way. I think the rage is justified, but misinterpreted, with many people explaining their reasons for not liking the ending in a way that will boil down to a personal opinion, rather than a clear narrative mistake, meaning the creators will be less inclined to act on it.
 

JediMB

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Veldt Falsetto said:
JediMB said:
Veldt Falsetto said:
I'm other because, while the ending is full of plot-holes and doesn't fit with the tone of the entire series, it's not worth fighting for. Good for you if you think Mass Effect is the best game series of all time but if this is Bioware's vision for the end then it's Bioware's decision to make it that way and we shouldn't change that.
You make it sound like BioWare is a person with a unified and clear vision of how the game should have ended.

In fact, though, BioWare's writers were debating back and forth how they were going to end the game, since they were forced to rewrite it after the original script leaked.

In November they still hadn't come up with a better ending, so the lead writer supposedly vetoed the other writers and pushed through the contradictory crap we got.
Obviously Bioware isn't one person.

May I ask, if anyone knows what the original ending was to share it?
I don't know the details, but it involved harvesting humans (for their genetic diversity) in order to create a Reaper capable of solving the problem with dark energy causing stars to rapidly age... which was eventually going to lead to every star in the galaxy going supernova.
 

Amaror

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Apr 15, 2011
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No i am not embarrased.
And no i wouldn't mock raging twillight fans, that are angry at the ending.
Well, i mock twillight fans right now, but that's because they like twillight and not because they are complaining about someting.
Books, Movies and Games are Art, but they are still a PRODUCT. You pay money for them and if they are not good you have every right to complain about it.
Fans of Books were angry about bad written sequels thousands of times, same goes for movies.
And just because Fans of Games do the same it's suddenly childish and entitled, or what?

And more Important: Its the ENDING that People are complaining about.
And i really know how important the ending is. The Endings is the part of the experience, you will remember.
If the ending is good,it can make up for many many flaws the medium had in the middle part of it.
But if it is bad, then this will overshadow the rest of the experience no matter how good it was.
 

TheCaptain

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Feb 7, 2012
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Amaror said:
Fans of Books were angry about bad written sequels thousands of times, same goes for movies.
Considering this, asking for a "fix" is only natural here, since everyone is fully aware that Bioware are going to make DLC anyway. That's the beautiful thing about video games and DLC: The experience changes or is expanded on anyway.
 

PurePareidolia

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Nov 26, 2008
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Even if the ending isn't changed, the industry still gets sent a message that you can't just expect people to be OK with an ending to a three-game trilogy in which everything you worked for is destroyed, unless you intentionally ignore several important parts of the laboriously crafted universe you've sunk so much time into.

It's disrespectful to the players, to the universe and to the series as a whole to cap it off with something so terrible. And believe me when I say that this is a series that involved a giant baby terminator and it's damn hard to out-stupid that. The Third game was otherwise excellent and did a great job of patching several of the holes from the previous installment, then the ending happened and of the given choices, the one that leaves the most hope is where you wait too long and everyone gets killed by the reapers.

There's just no circumstance in which that's acceptable - revealing that no matter how stupid the bad guy's motivation was, or how destructive they are, anything you do now will be worse than they ever could, and you've spent three games in pursuit of a goal that would end civilization more finally than the giant killer space robots*. It makes the entire series a waste of our time and money.


*Blow up the relays, the system they're in is wiped out and anyone in a nearby system is stranded in that cluster with no chance of escape. Not only do you wipe out the fleet you brought, but aside from Earth, Rannoch, Tuchanka and several other places you worked so hard to preserve were all in relay systems and will be vaporised along with anyone on them at the time. The reapers would preserve the relays as well as lesser forms of life, meaning at least something would survive into the next cycle.
 

Tomeran

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Nov 17, 2011
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This is starting to look like the MW3 scenario. People complain about a game, and then people coming out to complain about the complainers. And so on.

I'll agree that some of the complaints towards Bioware, and that thingie filed to EA, was completly out of line, but I personally consider it a customers right to voice discontent, and I dont have a problem with the "hold the line movement", or most other complaints in general.

People argue that its a "small thing to argue about", and that may be true in some perspectives, but a thing to keep in mind here is that this is one of the most personal and involving game storylines ever told, and having seen the ending alternatives, I can say that its...quite bad. I personally understand why people are upset, and as has been said many times: The ending is not the part of the storytelling you want to screw up, and this is not just any ending, its the ending of a trilogy, based mostly on the concept of an interesting story and an interesting world. The situation can be compared to this: Its like reading a greatly celebrated novel, the last one in a series of three, only to find out that the last chapter of the book, the epic conclusion, has been cut out and replaced with a chapter from an entirely different book. That's how out of context the ME3 ending feels. And in terms of entertainment and how much people invest in these games, both time and emotions, it is by no means a "small detail" to complain about.

Does Bioware have a responsibility to alter the ending because people are unhappy with it? No.
Should they? I dont know, but I dont belive they should ignore the outcry. It is a difficult problem to fix because ME3's ending is a complex thing, because it is a fairly complex series of choices that should've led you there. There is no easy "backtrack" from the ending Bioware has now settled with. And it would be quite bold to assume Bioware will actually ERASE the current ending and replace it with something else.
However, the least I think they can do is to offer some sort of "epilogue" dlc, free of charge, where they make an effort to explain some of the quite massive plotholes they left hanging at the end. It wouldnt fully repair the damage, but it would be a start.
 

Triangulon

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Nov 20, 2009
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SecretNegative said:
It's definetly gone ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the ending(s) either, but what do you complain about? ME3 is an extremely good game, got the solid plot and character interactions from the first, while getting the characters, combat and gameplay from the second, it's basically the ultimate Mass Effect.

I mean, the ending is a big deal to a story, but you really can't force Bioware into making a new ending, you are certainly entitled to explain why the ending sucked, but Bioware may just as well ignore you.

Look, if you don't like the game, good for you. But please stop with the "false advertisement" crap, the world didn't end, it was just the ending to a videogame franchise that was kind of dissapointing.

No, Bioware didn't betray you, they just had a different vision of what the story needed than you had.
I thought this was so correct it should be repeated.

Everyone is quoting Bioware as saying there would be this ending unique to your story but with so many potential choices through the series did people really think there were going to be dozens of different potential endings?
 

Chairman Miaow

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Nov 18, 2009
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The people fighting against the people against the ending are worse. It has gotten somewhat out of control, but I have yet to see a single person opposed to these movements for a better ending talk about this without either generalising, dismissing it as "You just want a happy ending", or something like that. I would be happy to hear someone defend the endings sensibly, so if you feel you can, go ahead.
 

tzimize

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evilneko said:
No. The rage is justified, in my opinion. It all boils down to something very basic: people were told throughout the series they were getting X, and X was a major selling point, and they got Y instead.

Any consumer would rightly be miffed.
Concentrated truth right here folks.

Also OT: I think its a thing worth fighting for, because we need to let the industry know what direction we like. So they can make more products we like, instead of more products we dont like.
 

Candidus

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Terramax said:
It isn't "unsatisfactory" in the way you're making out. Nobody is upset because it's sad, or ends on a cliffhanger. We're angry because it's full of plot holes. We're angry because it is ***objectively dysfunctional*** as the concluding piece of writing. If you haven't seen this video, it's time you did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E

Then, bear in mind what we were promised by Bioware. What Bioware EXPLICITLY and REPEATEDLY stated the end would be like. If you'd like a reminder, check here.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

Yeah, pardon me if I'm not at all embarrassed about being angry and fighting for both an explanation for the out-and-out lies, as well as a revision.
 

Sandytimeman

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Jan 14, 2011
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bahumat42 said:
You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.
Actually this is more in line with the way fans on traditional media fans react to someone taking a crap on their franchise(ie Star Wars for instance). If anything it means our medium is growing up. (This point brought to you by Jim)
 

Treefingers

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Gennadios said:
Artistic integrity goes out the window as soon as you employ a group to write something.
Lol what? You have no idea how the film and television industries work do you?

Plenty of works of art are written by employed groups of people.
 

Treefingers

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Caramel Frappe said:
Treefingers said:
So many butthurt crybaby fanboys.

Let Bioware make whatever fucking game they want to make. If you don't like it, big fucking deal. It's not YOUR game. YOU AREN'T THE WRITER.

How do we expect our medium to be taken seriously as an art form if we ***** at other's writing and demand it changed? I mean, if enough people don't like the way the Mona Lisa looks does that mean we can scribble over it until it's nice enough to us?

GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES.
*About to speak, but my mouth shuts.. and I look up to the side thinking carefully*

.. Hmm. Well, though I can simply transfer my long post to this- I would suggest if you'd like a debate or perhaps a post replying to your post then please read my really long post above, you can't miss it (lol).

Besides that, I must make one remark on your statement in the 2nd part about Bioware being able to do what they want with their game. Yes, it is indeed true it's their game and things like how Tali's face looks or maybe how the style of gameplay is, played- then we have no right to complain. However.. if the ending they made not only defiles everything the whole series stands for but also recommends you to buy their DLC after credits with a very short cheesy message.. I don't think it's something fans can pass up on being angry about.

I admit some are acting out of hand, but truth be told the most of us are actually stating our concerns. Over 90%, more then one hundred thousand and more fans all agree on Bioware being wrong with how they did their ending. It's not that we wanted some perfect ending where everyone's happy and the sky has a rainbow- nah I expected sacrifices and crap to come down. It's war, with Reapers.. bad stuff will go down. But the ending is so bleak, so .. hollow, it not only makes more questions rise up but the plot holes are left and right of it.

That and how Bioware, mainly the director Casey Hudson.. dealt with it. Broke 4 (and now I find out more then that) promises, avoiding questions and saying "It's art, we made it so you have to respect it no matter what we do." Yeah they can do whatever they want with Mass Effect but that's losing fans trust and loyalty if they treat their fans badly. I can't even get into the details again so please look above if you want to see all my points on this. Thank you for reading if you decided to take the time too. Cheers and hope things work out for the better.
I think you have every right to be angry about it, of course. But that's where it ends. No matter how bad it is, even if it does 'defy everything the series stands for' and even if it's full of plotholes and breaks 4+ promises they made you. Even if it does 'break your trust as a fan.' You're more than welcome to be angry and leave their fanbase. But that's where it ends.

In the end it's still theirs and it's still their work of art, and they can do whatever they want with it no matter how butthurt you get. If an artist wants to do something that will potentially hurt their audience, then they should be able to do so.

I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?
 

BloatedGuppy

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bahumat42 said:
if our industry was as widely as accepted as sci-fi you would have a point.

But its really not and its just pushing back that point where talking about games in an average social situation isn't faux pas. (by average i dont mean with your buds who you made through gaming, ofc they will talk about it)
I'll never understand this cringing insecurity gamers have, this need to be accepted and validated by non gamers. As if, say, sailboat enthusiasts sat around all day whinging about whether or not their hobby was perceived as legitimate in the eyes of non-boaters, as opposed to just getting on with their day. Maybe it's because the hobby, in its infancy, put down roots amongst those who were socially awkward to begin with, so this kind of bizarre self loathing and self flagellation in the face of adversity comes naturally. Who knows. It would be funny if it wasn't so tiring.

The fact that some people are beginning to treat the medium as legitimate art form, and as such demanding from it the same level of care and consistency we demand from other, more established art forms, is a good thing. Films have had director's cuts for ages. Books have been re-written to incorporate desired changes. Some people are squalling about a dangerous precedent, as if the precedent of correcting failed art hadn't been set ages ago. This is nothing new. The only unusual thing is the element in our community that gets sand in its panties every time we "step out of line" and treat the industry to the same critical standard that films and books have been viewed through for decades.

We are expecting more of games. That's a good thing. Games need to continue to mature and evolve as an art form. It would be nice if gamers would take the opportunity to do some maturing as well, and stop treating every single piece of industry news as an opportunity to fracture into splinter groups and start a new name calling campaign.

Treefingers said:
I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?
You're right. The medium is in danger of being set back a decade. You're just wrong about what attitude is behind it. Do you need a hint as to whose? Do you have a mirror handy?