Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

Crankafoo

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Mar 28, 2010
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I suppose I can't say much, as I have yet to play ME3. I'm waiting on a slight price drop and then picking it up as well as the day-1 DLC (and possibly whatever others).

I've played both the games prior to it and watched the ending online after the big debacle revolving around it. I've gotta say, I don't feel as much hate and "Grrr" towards Bioware, but I can't help but feel off about it. It seems as if nothing you did really mattered when it came down to it. Why play as a paragon or renegade? Why save Kaidan or Ashley, and why (SPOILERS) blow up (or give Cerberus) the reaper at the end of two?

I don't know, that's just what has been going through my mind about it.
 

TheCaptain

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Feb 7, 2012
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Treefingers said:
I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?
To be fair, while the gaming community tends to look like an inherently unpleasable lot, this discussion if far from a regular occurence.

As for the rest, the relationship between artist and, for lack of a better term, consumer is a bit less onesided. Video games as a product, which they still are, are specifically aimed at the consumer's enjoyment. It's not like a single artist put his work out there to express himself in the world; on a project like this, there's also "the people who fund your work", "the people who are expected to buy your work" and also the countless other "artist with whom you need to work together". Sure, there are people more involved in the creative process than others, but the point stands. I daresay meddling happens anyway, various viewpoints (the "money" one being not entirely unimportant) factor into the final work; so why should we, who are a) constantly being told how much we're part of the creative process and b) the ones the money comes from to make all this stuff actually worth their while be the only people who don't get a say in what specific parts of the game should or shouldn't be like?
 

Wanderhome

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Mar 15, 2012
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*looks out window*

No riots or public executions... no were still good, fight on gaming bretheren!!
 

BloatedGuppy

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bahumat42 said:
Well no because you know what happens when every other industry churns out something bad?People call it bad and move on. So far people have spent 3 weeks dwelling on 10 minutes of gameplay.
So all those re-writes, focus groups, director's editions, etc...those are a fantasy, right? To say nothing of the fact that video games are an inherently different medium, with different rules. Unless I missed something, and you can now download a patch for your book, or a film can end in 17 different ways depending on user input.

bahumat42 said:
In what a 20 hour + (i dont know the actual time it would take forgive me) campaign. 60x20= 1200

thats less than 1% of the experience (given that my 20 hour figure is way lower than the probably actual gametime) most people would let a 1% flaw go, i forgive stupid ass openings to games, just as i forgive cliffhangers and stupid assed endings to shows and films (lost , sopranos, akira) and most rational mature people will give that little bit of leeway and just go " yeah i had fun".
If you can't intuit how a bad ending can compromise narrative quality, then there's really no need for us to be having this discussion, because you're unwilling or incapable of looking at this sort of thing critically.

bahumat42 said:
Hell when even the numbers are that against you the argument begins to look very petty.
And, we're back to name calling again. Yes, I do think we're doing a good job here isolating that portion of the community that needs to do some growing up.
 

neoontime

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Jul 10, 2009
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Shit, I didn't even play the game but it makes me proud that gamers can gather around and make such an impact. Well "impact" is debatable but still, all that wonderful attention makes me feel that we as gamers are really important.
 

A Weakgeek

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NortherWolf said:
A Weakgeek said:
But asking for a different ending, even if the existing one is the worst pile of crap ever invented, is vile.
Why the f*ck is it "vile"? You do realize that movies work that way? Test screenings? One example is Deep Blue Sea where the female scientist was supposed to survive but test audiences were shouting for her to die.

Games aren't art, they're products. Products, in the capitalistic little world we live in, the rage of ME fans is the ultimate expression of logic. It is the right, no, the duty, of the customer to make sure that something sub par is changed or kicked off the market.

Hopefully that means no more Bioware in a few years as they've gone from excellent to pure shit*shrugs*
I would agree with you, IF you could prove me that an ending can be proven to be objectively bad or "faulty" as many seem to call it. Maybe Bioware thought it was a really nice ending.

As for kicking it off the market.. I agree! Games with a horrible story should be kicked off the market. How do you do that? Dont buy the freaking game! If you bought the game then theres nothing you can do anymore, Mass effect 3 was a success, it made alot of money. What would the devs gain in changing it now, unless selling it as DLC

A game in developement can be changed, a movie in developement can be changed, but not after release. They change it because they think it will make more money that way. Changing it now would accomplish nothing exept pleasing those who already bought the game, which equals to nothing.

I'm not saying "just forget it", infact I'm saying the opposite. Remember this when their next game comes out. But let mass effect 3 go, let it die and serve as a reminder.

Ninjafire72 said:
A Weakgeek said:
I have no trouble with bitching, people do that all the time. But asking for a different ending, even if the exsisting one is the worst pile of crap ever invented, is vile. It was the writers vision, you have no right to demand anything else. The PR department lied to you, well too bad, learn from your mistakes and dont believe any of this bullshit when the first spinoff Masseffect comes around.

Even if the ending was made to sell you dlc, they still shouldnt change it. Its a fucking disgusting practise but you got suckered in, if you hadnt preordered maybe you would have known before buying. Talk with your wallets people! DONT BUY THE DLC WHEN IT COMES OUT! That will only encourage EA and Bioware to do this in the future, and if you cant resist not buying this dlc and say "I wont buy any Bioware games... after this" you are lying to yourself.
That's about the dumbest ting I've ever read. I'm sorry, but people are dis-satisfied with something and your response is that it's our own stupid fault, and we should just ignore it? If everyone did that, nothing would change:
"NY Crime rate is rising? Just ignore it." "Colonel Gadafi is being evil? Just ignore it." "The Southern states of America are using black people as slaves? Just ignore it."
Based on what you said the NY police department, the Lybian rioters and George Washington are all 'vile' people for wanting change and are stupid to try fighting. See what I'm getting at here?

Being apathetic never solves anything, and as others have said shouting for boycotts rarely work unless properly organised. I'm not really happy about the whole whining business either, but if people are unhappy with something (or better yet, if they were LIED TO) then they have every right to raise their voice and try and make a difference.

Better than just sitting there determinedly not buying anything.
I'll use your hilariously over the top slavery argument as an example. In this case, those who bought ME3 and are complaining about the ending aren't the people trying to free the slaves, they are the ones that buy them. But then they realize that "Slavery might be wrong" and start complaining to the slave trader.(Neither slaves or videogames can be returned, they are similar in that regard.) Those who didnt buy ME3 are the ones fighting for their freedom, they are the ones who are saying "Freedom to the people" and not allowing them to live off of selling these slaves.

Sure you can complain after buying a slave, but what does it matter to the slaver? (Actually you could buy another slave, but buying two copies of ME3 makes no sense) Nothing. But even though you already bought a slave, you can do a diffrence by not buying his immoral shit next time.
 

Animyr

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Jan 11, 2011
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Treefingers said:
I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?
It's like if you ask for a guy named Da Vinci to paint a subtly nuanced portrait. He promises to do so. I pay in advance. He does. Then on the end he adds a giant goofy mustache and grins and says "get it? It's brilliant because it's not what you expected AT ALL!"

Erm, yeah. I'm not going to be all that amused or impressed by his curveball. I'm going to say "your artistic choices suck and I won't be hiring you again."

Now it is true that at the end of the day Bioware does indeed have the final say in what happens. But I also think fans have the right to express their opinions. And while most people agree that the fans can express our opinions, they always say that we have no right to "demand it." I can't help but notice that Bioware caving to fan complaints somehow turns into "demanding" for bioware defenders. Face it; bioware is caving to fan complaints because they're so widespread, regardless of whether they're "demanded" or not. "Demand" is a word. Some are using it in their complaints to bioware, many aren't. The sentiment is the same, and as you yourself admitted, the fans have every right to express that sentiment. And Bioware has every right to listen to that sentiment.

Again, look at broken steel. This has happened before.

Besides, it's not like the outcry is over every other flaw with the game and the fans are trying to take complete editorial control. Just the last fifteen damn minutes.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Feb 3, 2010
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A Weakgeek said:
As for kicking it off the market.. I agree! Games with a horrible story should be kicked off the market. How do you do that? Dont buy the freaking game! If you bought the game then theres nothing you can do anymore, Mass effect 3 was a success, it made alot of money.
Games have a much longer life span in the market than two weeks. While they might make a bulk of their return on day one sales and pre-orders, not everyone buys in that first week. Word of mouth and critical reception have a lot of impact on how well a game sells and continues to sell, to say nothing of money made off DLC. There's a lot of things you can do aside from traveling back in time and not buying the game.

A Weakgeek said:
What would the devs gain in changing it now, unless selling it as DLC
Uh...repair their relationship with their fan base? Repair the reputation of the game and the IP in general? Bolster sales of the game and sales of DLC over the coming year? Are you seriously even asking this?

A Weakgeek said:
A game in developement can be changed, a movie in developement can be changed, but not after release. They change it because they think it will make more money that way. Changing it now would accomplish nothing exept pleasing those who already bought the game, which equals to nothing.
Games are not films, even even films can be changed post-release. There are innumerable examples of this available. It's harder to find a game that never changes post release than a game that does. I honestly cannot understand how you would even argue this.
 

RagTagBand

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Jul 7, 2011
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Developers patch broken gameplay all the time, nobody cries about Art then, Broken Story should be patched too, especially since we have the technology and the ability to do it.
 

ms_sunlight

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Jun 6, 2011
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What? I'm just still surprised that no-one seems to have noticed the musical riff on The Beatles' "A Day In The Life" in the music that plays over the ending cut scenes as Joker flies through the Mass Relay.

Obvious drug / hallucination reference.
 

chuckey

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Oct 9, 2010
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I was never a ME fan, played about 2 hrs of the first one and just didn't get into it. Sorry. But the point is that after looking at the endings on youtube and taking a look at some of the marketing I can understand why people are reasonably upset

Anyone who wants to add or clarify please do so I'll spoiler this part just in case

So let me see if I'm on the right path here. There are three different main endings. RED, GREEN, and BLUE. according to what i've looked into the GREEN ending is supposed to be the best one right? However, due to what has happened in the story and the identity of the characters there are several parts that don't make sense right?

The fact that the Joker guy leaves the battle for some reason that is most likely not discussed upon in the story.

The fact that the mass relay thing should have killed the entire solar system when it blew up.

The fact that not only did Joker ditch Shepard but he brought along the girls that you were involved with and spent time building relationships with for who knows how long on to a planet that's like Earth.

The fact that all the endings are 98% the same cinematic(seriously there is a vid on youtube that combines them!) and the fact that if bother to get you military thing high enough you get an extra second in one of the endings that show Shepard take a breath or something.

The fact that the Developers had made several comments saying that the endings won't be typical endings, that there isn't really an A, B, C ending. That everything you have done previously WILL have and impact on your ending. And much more....

So I think that pretty much covers why everyone is frustrated. Do I think the level of anger should have gotten this high? No. Do I think people have a right to be upset, Yes.

But remember... at least the series didn't end like "The Sopranos"... but at this point I think some of you would have preferred it did.
 

BloatedGuppy

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bahumat42 said:
wow you can't read can you

Lets type slowly for you
" THE ARGUMENT BEGINS TO LOOK PETTY"

Your allowed to be critical and dislike and ending, sure be pissed off. Don't demand a rewrite. don't spend 3 weeks dwelling and screaming about a work of fiction. So you didn't like the ending, move on. If this truly seems like something in your life that needs that kind of energy poured into it, then i would recommend prioritising better.

Directors editions alter how what is there is viewed, they very rarely change the actual output of the film. Sure alternate endings exist for many things, but most directors acknowledge that they may have been wrong. Regardless of these facts those changes happened before release and were by people who were making the games not by people who have much time on their hands moaning because it wasn't the best ending ever.

Realistically speaking nothing could of lived up to the hyped that community had for it anyway. Same as with the lost ending there were too many variables. And you just have to make do and appreciate the good stuff.

Take this bottle of anti-perspirant. Its been quite good for me, antiperspiring for many a month, when it comes to its sputtering unimpressive climax and runs out of gas, will i be pissed because the end of it sucked. No it did its job very well for the rest of the time.

If you can't appreciate the journey it takes to get somewhere than the experience was wasted upon you. And as such i pity your time wasted. Take the ending to deus ex, that caused a schism, but after a little boohoo most people realised they enjoyed the stuff before and that overall it was a pretty fun experience.

Now if you'll excuse me i have a lovely sunny day to enjoy.
Well, see, I can read. And I'm reading the usual deluge of thinly veiled ad hominem attacks that have been floating in from your camp from the very beginning. The accusations of pettiness, of "entitlement". The presumption that a lot of "dwelling" and "screaming" and "moaning" is going on. A suggestion that people are having trouble prioritizing or that they "have too much time on their hands"...say, perhaps they're letting the kids go hungry or something so they can craft up a new jeremiad regarding the ME3 endings. I've spent no more energy discussing this issue then the people such as yourself, who are so strangely motivated to shout it down. The little energy I've been expending has been put towards improving something I feel passionate about. The little energy you've been expending has been put towards calling people names, impugning their motives, and propping up an artistic catastrophe as inviolate.

By all means, do enjoy your sunny day. Perhaps you'll find some more people you disagree with about things, and indulge yourself in some name calling. It does appear to be a past time for you.
 

boag

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Sep 13, 2010
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bahumat42 said:
You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.

Hey man, let me kill your hearsay with more hearsay


http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/

according to the information in the link, Walters and Casey took it upon themselves to fuck around with the writting.

So tell me, if Casey and Walters took the time to fuck around with other peoples art, why are you not complaining about them?
 

A Weakgeek

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BloatedGuppy said:
A Weakgeek said:
As for kicking it off the market.. I agree! Games with a horrible story should be kicked off the market. How do you do that? Dont buy the freaking game! If you bought the game then theres nothing you can do anymore, Mass effect 3 was a success, it made alot of money.
Games have a much longer life span in the market than two weeks. While they might make a bulk of their return on day one sales and pre-orders, not everyone buys in that first week. Word of mouth and critical reception have a lot of impact on how well a game sells and continues to sell, to say nothing of money made off DLC. There's a lot of things you can do aside from traveling back in time and not buying the game.

A Weakgeek said:
What would the devs gain in changing it now, unless selling it as DLC
Uh...repair their relationship with their fan base? Repair the reputation of the game and the IP in general? Bolster sales of the game and sales of DLC over the coming year? Are you seriously even asking this?

A Weakgeek said:
A game in developement can be changed, a movie in developement can be changed, but not after release. They change it because they think it will make more money that way. Changing it now would accomplish nothing exept pleasing those who already bought the game, which equals to nothing.
Games are not films, even even films can be changed post-release. There are innumerable examples of this available. It's harder to find a game that never changes post release than a game that does. I honestly cannot understand how you would even argue this.
You can argue that that whining might have an effect, but you cant really prove it. Not buying the game however does have an effect. That you cant argue.

As for selling more DLC/copies, do you remember the Day 1 dlc incedent? People bought it anyways. I'm willing to guess they made alot more money off of the 10 dollars than they lost from canceled orders. I also bet that making a new ending would cost MUCH more than what it would gain in copies sold. Selling another ending (Or an "epilogue") would make much more sense financially than fixing the current one. Besides when people keep doing like most of the fanbase seems to be doing (IE. buying the game, then whining about it) they DONT NEED a good reputation as long as people keep buying them.

After DA2 all ive seen is empty "threats" not to buy any bioware games again. EA and Bioware are just testing the waters here, even more bullshit stuff will be coming in the future I assure you, and as long as people keep buying and whining they will continue.
 

BloatedGuppy

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bahumat42 said:
I'm quite frank about what i say and mean. Anything else you read into it is on you. But many from your camp have been doing those things.
And? I'm sorry, but "They started it!" is a pre-schoolers argument. If someone else is doing something inane and childish, the correct response is not to up the ante.

bahumat42 said:
I see people acting dumb and i call them out on it, same as i would about a football fan still crying three days after his team lost or people actively giving up who they are in order to fit in with some percieved way to be.
Do you know me? Do you know any of the people you're arguing with on this issue? All you have is forum posts, from which you've decided to deduce all sorts of behaviors, such as "crying" and "moaning" and fucked up priorities. Surely you know what "straw men" are, right? I'm not sure why you think this is a constructive or even an interesting way to discuss any issue. Listening to people invent their own windmills to charge at instead of actually discussing things like rational, adult human beings isn't nearly as gratifying as you seem to think it is.

bahumat42 said:
If your really getting hurt by this non existant name calling. (because again im not calling anyone petty, just the argument), then i empathise with being so easily hurt.
So we change the nature of the ad hominem attacks, moving from accusations of moaning and pettiness to accusations of "easily injured". If this is how you express yourself in daily conversation I think I understand why you're constantly being accused of committing social faux pas. And it's not because you like gaming.

Perhaps you can explain to me why it's "petty" to critique art, especially art that has been created for the express purpose of mass consumption.
 

BloatedGuppy

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A Weakgeek said:
You can argue that that whining might have an effect, but you cant really prove it. Not buying the game however does have an effect. That you cant argue.

As for selling more DLC/copies, do you remember the Day 1 dlc incedent? People bought it anyways. I'm willing to guess they made alot more money off of the 10 dollars than they lost from canceled orders. I also bet that making a new ending would cost MUCH more than what it would gain in copies sold. Selling another ending (Or an "epilogue") would make much more sense financially than fixing the current one. Besides when people keep doing like most of the fanbase seems to be doing (IE. buying the game, then whining about it) they DONT NEED a good reputation as long as people keep buying them.

After DA2 all ive seen is empty "threats" not to buy any bioware games again. EA and Bioware are just testing the waters here, even more bullshit stuff will be coming in the future I assure you, and as long as people keep buying and whining they will continue.
Why on EARTH do you think people are buying from them in the first place, if not their reputation? All of this stuff doesn't take place in a vacuum, you know.

You a pretty curious interpretation of how the industry works, I'll give you that.
 

Savryc

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Aug 4, 2011
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Gamers ***** and whine over pointless, unimportant shit all the time, my embarrassment gland burnt out a long time ago. However, I wouldn't say it's out of control, more like it's an average Thursday. ME3 was never in a million, billion, squillion years gonna live up to everybody's expectations. I saw the bitchfest coming a mile off but didn't realise how big it would be nor that it would spill out into the Escapist to such an extreme.

But the whole demanding to change the ending thing? No. That's utter bull even by gamer standards, I don't care what PR spin bullshit Bioware put on about how it was "Your Shepard, your story" it was their story since they were the ones fucking writing it.

While the Child's Play thing was a good cause and hats off to everyone that donated despite being an obvious "look how nice we are!" publicity stunt, Retake Mass Effect can fall arse first onto the Washington Monument. You can't retake what was never yours to begin with and no, owning a copy of the game does not mean you own the story, I own a copy of the Sam's Town album by The Killers. Does that mean I can rock up to Brandon Flowers and scream in his ear until he changes the baseline on Uncle Johnny? No, because it's not my song to change and I have no right doing so.

My god it's just a sucky ending, have you never experienced one before? Are you really that sheltered? Does the ending to a fairly average space opera trilogy really mean so much to you? Is it really worth all this effort when there are genuinely shitty things our favourite industry is doing right now that deserves more attention? (You wanna whine about consumer rights? Kick up a Retake Used Sales drive then you'll be going somewhere)

But we may as well be back in time for all the chance you'll change your minds.