[HEADING=1]
Hello everyone, been awhile since I started a thread, but I felt it was more than time for us to have a good old fashioned, well mannered, incredibly nerdy discussion of Sci-Fi empires, don't you?
To that end, our match up:
[HEADING=1]
[HEADING=1]
For the purpose of this thread, the set up for this conflict is that the Rakatan Empire is at its peak. The construction of the Star Forge has been completed, and they're unchallenged in their rule. It is only when the Reapers near the galactic rim of the Star Wars galaxy that they are alerted to the threat. The Reapers are approaching from dark space quickly, and the Rakatan ready for their approach. I choose this, as it would make sense, and is a logical first contact between these two factions, were their forces ever to meet, as the Rakata were not centered in our galaxy, the one the Reapers operated in. I did NOT choose this out of bias.
Before you vote, I'm going to do my best to make a comparison between the two factions for the uninitiated or undecided, starting with,
[HEADING=1]the Empire[/HEADING]
Now, onto the aggressors in this scenario:
[HEADING=1]The Reapers[/HEADING]
So, the sides have been laid out. Cast your vote, and back up your arguments. I'd love to have some good, clean, respectful fan discussions with you guys.
I apologize if this thread is seems poorly worded; I did it in one go while my attention could be given to it. If my ignorance is showing, please, slap me.
EDIT 1: Apparently I was mistaken as to the melee capabilities of the Rakata. They seem to have had precursors to lightsabers, forcesabers.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forcesaber
Spoilers for both Star Wars and Mass Effect lore. Be warned.
[/HEADING]Hello everyone, been awhile since I started a thread, but I felt it was more than time for us to have a good old fashioned, well mannered, incredibly nerdy discussion of Sci-Fi empires, don't you?
To that end, our match up:
[HEADING=1]
The Rakatan Empire
[/HEADING]
[HEADING=1]
The Reapers
[/HEADING]
For the purpose of this thread, the set up for this conflict is that the Rakatan Empire is at its peak. The construction of the Star Forge has been completed, and they're unchallenged in their rule. It is only when the Reapers near the galactic rim of the Star Wars galaxy that they are alerted to the threat. The Reapers are approaching from dark space quickly, and the Rakatan ready for their approach. I choose this, as it would make sense, and is a logical first contact between these two factions, were their forces ever to meet, as the Rakata were not centered in our galaxy, the one the Reapers operated in. I did NOT choose this out of bias.
Before you vote, I'm going to do my best to make a comparison between the two factions for the uninitiated or undecided, starting with,
[HEADING=1]the Empire[/HEADING]
Brief History:
The year is 30,000 BBY, millennia before the Republic is born, and the Rakata are unchallenged. For good reason too. Rising from their home planet by virtue of technology intertwined with the Force, they conquered most all of their galaxy, and ruled with an iron fist via slave labor and overwhelming military might. They were a warlike and proud race, convinced of their own superiority, and more than eager to prove it.
Weapons, Space Faring:
As far as I'm aware, Rakatan fleets have never been portrayed in action, but there's more than enough to go on based around what sort of capabilities they had.
It is known they had laser based weaponry, as it is stated that Tatooine was a lush and life filled planet, before rebellious natives annoyed the Empire into glassing the planet. Over time, this glass broke down, becoming the Dune Sea. Looking ahead to the time of the Old Republic, Malak and Revan's fleet can be used as a proxy.
From this, we can assume they had shielding capabilities meant to protect from light or radiation based blaster weaponry, light based weaponry themselves, in such quantity and scale as to glass entire planets, and of course their invention of Hyperdrive. This means they have the ability to move their forces without the use of Mass Effect Drivers, a HUGE tactical advantage; their fleets aren't on rails, unlike the Reapers.
But their most powerful weapon is their, at the time, newly created super weapon, the Star Forge.
A space station that, even with the tightest of time restraints, can produce excessive numbers of ships with the barest of materials. The station, drawing power from the Force and the Rakatan Prime sun, the station was their factory, capable of building, and restocking, their entire fleet. [footnote]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Forge[/footnote]
But what's an army without the ability to engage in infantry combat? Well, the Rakata aren't defenseless their either.
Weapons, Ground Based:
Blaster weaponry is a given, as the droids which survived their master's defeat use them, in addition to flamethrowers and carbonite projectors, as indicated by the defender droids in the Dantooine Ruins.
Troops could be seen carrying bladed weaponry for sure, and more than likely hand held blaster weaponry.
But their most dangerous ground force weapon is one they're born with, The Force. Before their disconnection from the Force, either a huge majority, or the entirety of the Rakatan species, was force sensitive.
This means every troop was akin to a Jedi, using tactics like Destroy Droid, Force Lighting, Drain Life, Force Wave, Heal, Burst of Speed, and more. This gives them a huge field advantage, especially the first, when dealing with half robotic enemies.
What's more, the Empire has been shown to have massive reserves of battle droids. These machines are more than formidable threats, supposedly being dangerous even to the invading strike teams of Jedi that tried to destroy the Star Forge during the Jedi Civil War in the events of the first Knights of the Old Republic Game.
Position in the war:
Now as I mentioned near the beginning, The Empire is playing defense in this engagement. The Reapers are attempting to invade and subjugate a new galaxy. Because of this, the Rakata have the advantage of fighting on their own turf.
Not only are the locations of their worlds defended, but they're also unknown, giving them time while the Reapers move to discover them to distribute and relocate them. No break in intelligence happening would be unlikely to occur, but it's important to note the Reapers would be playing a guessing game until they cracked Rakatan transmissions and found maps.
The year is 30,000 BBY, millennia before the Republic is born, and the Rakata are unchallenged. For good reason too. Rising from their home planet by virtue of technology intertwined with the Force, they conquered most all of their galaxy, and ruled with an iron fist via slave labor and overwhelming military might. They were a warlike and proud race, convinced of their own superiority, and more than eager to prove it.
Weapons, Space Faring:
As far as I'm aware, Rakatan fleets have never been portrayed in action, but there's more than enough to go on based around what sort of capabilities they had.
It is known they had laser based weaponry, as it is stated that Tatooine was a lush and life filled planet, before rebellious natives annoyed the Empire into glassing the planet. Over time, this glass broke down, becoming the Dune Sea. Looking ahead to the time of the Old Republic, Malak and Revan's fleet can be used as a proxy.
From this, we can assume they had shielding capabilities meant to protect from light or radiation based blaster weaponry, light based weaponry themselves, in such quantity and scale as to glass entire planets, and of course their invention of Hyperdrive. This means they have the ability to move their forces without the use of Mass Effect Drivers, a HUGE tactical advantage; their fleets aren't on rails, unlike the Reapers.
But their most powerful weapon is their, at the time, newly created super weapon, the Star Forge.
A space station that, even with the tightest of time restraints, can produce excessive numbers of ships with the barest of materials. The station, drawing power from the Force and the Rakatan Prime sun, the station was their factory, capable of building, and restocking, their entire fleet. [footnote]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Forge[/footnote]
But what's an army without the ability to engage in infantry combat? Well, the Rakata aren't defenseless their either.
Weapons, Ground Based:
Blaster weaponry is a given, as the droids which survived their master's defeat use them, in addition to flamethrowers and carbonite projectors, as indicated by the defender droids in the Dantooine Ruins.
Troops could be seen carrying bladed weaponry for sure, and more than likely hand held blaster weaponry.
But their most dangerous ground force weapon is one they're born with, The Force. Before their disconnection from the Force, either a huge majority, or the entirety of the Rakatan species, was force sensitive.
This means every troop was akin to a Jedi, using tactics like Destroy Droid, Force Lighting, Drain Life, Force Wave, Heal, Burst of Speed, and more. This gives them a huge field advantage, especially the first, when dealing with half robotic enemies.
What's more, the Empire has been shown to have massive reserves of battle droids. These machines are more than formidable threats, supposedly being dangerous even to the invading strike teams of Jedi that tried to destroy the Star Forge during the Jedi Civil War in the events of the first Knights of the Old Republic Game.
Position in the war:
Now as I mentioned near the beginning, The Empire is playing defense in this engagement. The Reapers are attempting to invade and subjugate a new galaxy. Because of this, the Rakata have the advantage of fighting on their own turf.
Not only are the locations of their worlds defended, but they're also unknown, giving them time while the Reapers move to discover them to distribute and relocate them. No break in intelligence happening would be unlikely to occur, but it's important to note the Reapers would be playing a guessing game until they cracked Rakatan transmissions and found maps.
Now, onto the aggressors in this scenario:
[HEADING=1]The Reapers[/HEADING]
Brief History:
Created by the Catalyst, an A.I. put in place by the race known as Leviathans to prevent synthetic life from destroying their thrall species[footnote]http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reaper#Leviathan http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan[/footnote], this Lovecraftian fleet is a group of living ships measured in Kilometers with one goal; the destruction and harvesting of an entire galaxy's population. Working as one force, they are the hammer of the Catalyst's will, destroying countless civilizations in their cycle of extermination. "Reaper" was a term given by their most recent victims, the Protheans. They are cold and emotionless, doing what they do out of orders, not desire. They have no fear, no regret, and no mercy.
Weapons, Space Faring:
Themselves. The Reapers, both as individuals and an organization, are weapons. They have many variants [footnote]List found here: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Variants[/footnote], but each is designed to further their war effort.
Their defenses are designed to defend against their own weaponry, which operates on kinetic energy, and their primary offensive tactics are based around, "magnetohydrodynamic" weaponry. They accelerate and fire a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light at enemies. This is very devastating, being shown to crack Alliance ships wide open in the Mass Effect games.
Due to their being living ships, it's not unreasonable to assume they're more capable in maneuverability than any piloted ship, as indicated by Soverign's turn on Virmire that, "Would have ripped any of our ships in half." -Joker, Mass Effect 1.
Furthermore, it has been shown that some minimal system activity continues even after a Reaper's, "death." A derelict Reaper was shown to be maintaining orbit and keeping its shields up even after its destruction in the previous cycle. Additionally, the ability to indoctrinate was still active, causing the deaths of a group of explores that found their way aboard.
Weapons, Ground Based:
Being massive ships doesn't lend itself to street based fighting, or smoking out entrenched fortresses. To this end, Reapers capture, torture, experiment on, alter, and repurpose organisms to their own ends. Through rather sadistic methods, subjects are captured, altered, crossed with other samples of genetic material and cybernetic modifications to create, in short, nightmares.
Things like Husks, bodies that have had their fluids drained, and their organic parts replaced to an extent with cybernetics, and Cannibals[footnote]http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cannibal[/footnote], mutated half-Human, half-Batarian monstrosities, are not something any soldier would like to face.
Indoctrination:
One of their more infamous tactics, through the use of sub-sonic sounds and subliminal sensations, Reapers can alter organic thought processes. Through this, they can subjugate and enlist willing "volunteers" to fight for their cause, or undergo alteration. A subtle tactic, it's been known to destabilize entire countries.
Position in the war:
Invading from dark space, it's the objective of the Reapers to destroy and harvest all sentient organics, Rakata or slave race. This is usually aided by their sneak attack tactic, but they cannot rely on this here.
Created by the Catalyst, an A.I. put in place by the race known as Leviathans to prevent synthetic life from destroying their thrall species[footnote]http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reaper#Leviathan http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan[/footnote], this Lovecraftian fleet is a group of living ships measured in Kilometers with one goal; the destruction and harvesting of an entire galaxy's population. Working as one force, they are the hammer of the Catalyst's will, destroying countless civilizations in their cycle of extermination. "Reaper" was a term given by their most recent victims, the Protheans. They are cold and emotionless, doing what they do out of orders, not desire. They have no fear, no regret, and no mercy.
Weapons, Space Faring:
Themselves. The Reapers, both as individuals and an organization, are weapons. They have many variants [footnote]List found here: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Variants[/footnote], but each is designed to further their war effort.
Their defenses are designed to defend against their own weaponry, which operates on kinetic energy, and their primary offensive tactics are based around, "magnetohydrodynamic" weaponry. They accelerate and fire a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light at enemies. This is very devastating, being shown to crack Alliance ships wide open in the Mass Effect games.
Due to their being living ships, it's not unreasonable to assume they're more capable in maneuverability than any piloted ship, as indicated by Soverign's turn on Virmire that, "Would have ripped any of our ships in half." -Joker, Mass Effect 1.
Furthermore, it has been shown that some minimal system activity continues even after a Reaper's, "death." A derelict Reaper was shown to be maintaining orbit and keeping its shields up even after its destruction in the previous cycle. Additionally, the ability to indoctrinate was still active, causing the deaths of a group of explores that found their way aboard.
Weapons, Ground Based:
Being massive ships doesn't lend itself to street based fighting, or smoking out entrenched fortresses. To this end, Reapers capture, torture, experiment on, alter, and repurpose organisms to their own ends. Through rather sadistic methods, subjects are captured, altered, crossed with other samples of genetic material and cybernetic modifications to create, in short, nightmares.
Things like Husks, bodies that have had their fluids drained, and their organic parts replaced to an extent with cybernetics, and Cannibals[footnote]http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cannibal[/footnote], mutated half-Human, half-Batarian monstrosities, are not something any soldier would like to face.
Indoctrination:
One of their more infamous tactics, through the use of sub-sonic sounds and subliminal sensations, Reapers can alter organic thought processes. Through this, they can subjugate and enlist willing "volunteers" to fight for their cause, or undergo alteration. A subtle tactic, it's been known to destabilize entire countries.
Position in the war:
Invading from dark space, it's the objective of the Reapers to destroy and harvest all sentient organics, Rakata or slave race. This is usually aided by their sneak attack tactic, but they cannot rely on this here.
So, the sides have been laid out. Cast your vote, and back up your arguments. I'd love to have some good, clean, respectful fan discussions with you guys.
The Rakatan Infinite Empire.
Factors that led to me making this decisions:
-Playing defense. The Rakata know their turf, and have it tightly under control. Plus, the Reapers not knowing where their bases are is a huge benefit. This means their installations and troop movements would be unknown and protected.
-The Force. Records show that virtually every member of the Rakatan race was akin to a Jedi, having mastery of the force unrivaled by any other species. This means they have so many ways to attack, even when "disarmed." Destroy Droid for machines, Drain Life for organics, Force Lightning for either; they're just more versatile. Now, the possibility of Reapers reverse engineering the Force from captured Rakata is a disquieting thought, but even then their creations would have no training, and would lack any sort of finesse or viable tactics to counter the much more Force seasoned Rakata.
-Hyperdrive. Probably one of the biggest nails in the Reaper's coffin is that they lack the ability to move faster than light. Rakata can. Their invention and use of Hyperdrive means they can move troops, supplies, information, you name it, much faster than any Reaper could hope to match. While they lose out on battlefield maneuverability, they win in the area of supply routes; a huge victory.
-Weaponry match up. Both sides can hit one another hard, and neither has a good defense for the other. The Rakata shields deflect energy, meaning a mile long stream of metal is going right through them, but the Reaper shields can do nothing against radiation, which some blaster variants have been known to fire. [footnote]Kinetic Shileding: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Shields#Kinetic_Barriers_.28.22Shields.22.29 Blaster Technology: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster#Laser_mechanics[/footnote] So why does the point go to the Rakata? Well, because they have the ability to make more, while the Reapers don't have a means of easy production that can rival the Rakata's. Which brings me to the last part of my reasoning...
-The Star Forge. There's no two ways about it, the Star Forge wins this fight for the Empire. The fact is, the Reapers, no matter how fearsome or numerous, cannot beat the sheer size of the fleets that can be spawned from this thing. Fleets capable of policing and controlling an entire galaxy during a time where no large organized wars with other factions were going on were a staple of the Rakatan rule, and this number would only grow when the Reapers revealed themselves. I just can't see them lasting out against the endless wave of reinforcements that would be coming.
Factors that led to me making this decisions:
-Playing defense. The Rakata know their turf, and have it tightly under control. Plus, the Reapers not knowing where their bases are is a huge benefit. This means their installations and troop movements would be unknown and protected.
-The Force. Records show that virtually every member of the Rakatan race was akin to a Jedi, having mastery of the force unrivaled by any other species. This means they have so many ways to attack, even when "disarmed." Destroy Droid for machines, Drain Life for organics, Force Lightning for either; they're just more versatile. Now, the possibility of Reapers reverse engineering the Force from captured Rakata is a disquieting thought, but even then their creations would have no training, and would lack any sort of finesse or viable tactics to counter the much more Force seasoned Rakata.
-Hyperdrive. Probably one of the biggest nails in the Reaper's coffin is that they lack the ability to move faster than light. Rakata can. Their invention and use of Hyperdrive means they can move troops, supplies, information, you name it, much faster than any Reaper could hope to match. While they lose out on battlefield maneuverability, they win in the area of supply routes; a huge victory.
-Weaponry match up. Both sides can hit one another hard, and neither has a good defense for the other. The Rakata shields deflect energy, meaning a mile long stream of metal is going right through them, but the Reaper shields can do nothing against radiation, which some blaster variants have been known to fire. [footnote]Kinetic Shileding: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Shields#Kinetic_Barriers_.28.22Shields.22.29 Blaster Technology: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster#Laser_mechanics[/footnote] So why does the point go to the Rakata? Well, because they have the ability to make more, while the Reapers don't have a means of easy production that can rival the Rakata's. Which brings me to the last part of my reasoning...
-The Star Forge. There's no two ways about it, the Star Forge wins this fight for the Empire. The fact is, the Reapers, no matter how fearsome or numerous, cannot beat the sheer size of the fleets that can be spawned from this thing. Fleets capable of policing and controlling an entire galaxy during a time where no large organized wars with other factions were going on were a staple of the Rakatan rule, and this number would only grow when the Reapers revealed themselves. I just can't see them lasting out against the endless wave of reinforcements that would be coming.
I apologize if this thread is seems poorly worded; I did it in one go while my attention could be given to it. If my ignorance is showing, please, slap me.
EDIT 1: Apparently I was mistaken as to the melee capabilities of the Rakata. They seem to have had precursors to lightsabers, forcesabers.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forcesaber
