Nope, those do not apply here. Restaurants and airlines are private entities, and may refuse service to anybody under reasonable circumstances. Additionally, they are not required to service anybody under the age of 18 iircSeriousIssues said:
Poll: No-kids-allowed movement. Yay or nay?
- Thread starter Beautiful End
- Start date
As much as I hate kids ( I really, really hate kids), I can't agree with this. A business is fully within its right to say no kids allowed, but I'll leave that up to the business, not me.
No, no, no!
What the hell ever happened to PARENTING? You know...when people expected parents to be able to control their children in public places?
My ten-year-old can handle PG-13 movies. If she doesn't understand something, she asks me after the movie's over. If she gets scared, she asks me quietly if we can leave, and we do. I've taken my children to fancy restaurants, weddings, the like. If they cry, I take them out to the car so as not to be rude to other patrons. If a parent refuses to parent a child in a restaurant, the staff should ask the family to leave. The same thing goes for movie theaters. For airplanes, I do like the idea of a separate first class for children, simply because once a plane is in the air, there is no way to ask the parent of a rowdy child to leave. It wouldn't be that hard to implement, either, a simple dividing wall, and sell the tickets as children or non, like restaurants used to with smoking.
But that's not my biggest problem with this. More and more places are not allowing children, but where are kids expected to go? Do they stay home all the time, indoors? How do they learn how to behave in public places if they're never allowed in them? Those children will be taking care of us when we're old. They'll be our doctors, nurses, they'll be making the stuff we buy and use. If we make no room in our society for children, we raise a generation of children that do not feel welcome in their own lives, who graduate high school not really knowing how to be the adults we expect them to be.
What the hell ever happened to PARENTING? You know...when people expected parents to be able to control their children in public places?
My ten-year-old can handle PG-13 movies. If she doesn't understand something, she asks me after the movie's over. If she gets scared, she asks me quietly if we can leave, and we do. I've taken my children to fancy restaurants, weddings, the like. If they cry, I take them out to the car so as not to be rude to other patrons. If a parent refuses to parent a child in a restaurant, the staff should ask the family to leave. The same thing goes for movie theaters. For airplanes, I do like the idea of a separate first class for children, simply because once a plane is in the air, there is no way to ask the parent of a rowdy child to leave. It wouldn't be that hard to implement, either, a simple dividing wall, and sell the tickets as children or non, like restaurants used to with smoking.
But that's not my biggest problem with this. More and more places are not allowing children, but where are kids expected to go? Do they stay home all the time, indoors? How do they learn how to behave in public places if they're never allowed in them? Those children will be taking care of us when we're old. They'll be our doctors, nurses, they'll be making the stuff we buy and use. If we make no room in our society for children, we raise a generation of children that do not feel welcome in their own lives, who graduate high school not really knowing how to be the adults we expect them to be.
Let's think for a moment how those kids that were told that they weren't allowed to go shopping with their parents or see a movie with them will grow up to be. Remember any kid you used to know that had super restrictive parents that was either a total ass hole or a complete shut in? Lets not make a whole generation of those people.
If anything blame the parents for not controlling them, it takes a license to drive but anyone can be a parent.
If anything blame the parents for not controlling them, it takes a license to drive but anyone can be a parent.
There are TONS of well-mannered teens who would probably turn into the kind you despise if you were to prevent them from leaving the house. I think any sort of judgment passed on ANY group of people should be based on the individual, not the stereotype or the worst-behaved.JezebelinHell said:Personally I think they should ban teenagers from going out of the house. They are loud and obnoxious and let's face it, they are old enough to know better, unlike a baby or a toddler that has a clean slate to learn the rules of society by interacting with said society. A teenager has already had that chance and blew it. Let's move on to kids that may get a clue.
Seriously... Establishments should deal with problem customers on a case by case basis. They are failing because money is more important and once you are seated they generally have your money no matter what happens. If you were to mention to your service staff that the obnoxious teenagers (in my case) are ruining your enjoyment and that you will leave and take your money with you maybe you would get someone to intervene on your behalf. I think any of you that believe children should not be allowed in nice restaurants do not realize that children learn from society and if restaurant staff are involved the parents can also have a learning experience just like the teenagers I get booted out of one of my favorite places to dine.
TLR? Make the restaurant staff do their job of making your dining experience enjoyable or tell them you will take your money elsewhere. The only way you can possibly educate the problem parents.
Edit:
Hahaha! I got disgusted with the replies before I got off of page one.Slick Samurai said:
I'm seventeen myself, and have acted fairly close to the same ever since I was twelve. I've never thrown a fit, cried, screamed, talked loudly, or even made my presence known in a public place when I didn't have to. My sister, on the other hand, legally an adult, has thrown fits, cried, screamed, and talked loudly in various places. All while legally an adult.
I'll say it again just to be sure: PASS JUDGMENT BASED ON THE INDIVIDUAL, NOT THE STEREOTYPE OR THE WORST-BEHAVED.
I am absolutely for this. I'm sick of parents with misbehaving children or screaming babies ruining my time at the cinema. When I can't enjoy a movie over your obnoxious child screaming or kicking seats or rocking in their chair like a depraved chimp, it's time to GTFO the theater and stop being a menace to everyone around you. The same goes for upscale restaurants. You pay for a certain type of atmosphere when you enter these facilities, and I think that should be respected.
Well-behaved children are perfectly fine, of course... but those are all but mythical creatures in this day and age. I think I have a slightly higher chance of being struck by lightning than being in the same restaurant/theater as a child whose parents have raised it well enough that it doesn't ruin the experience for everyone.
I really don't understand the argument "kids will be kids" here.
When I was a child, I was afraid of the consequences if I didn't behave in public. Granted, this was when I was a child of an age where rational thought was possible, but if your baby is screaming and being a menace, remove it from the situation until it shuts up. It's not that difficult. But people don't do that, and there's the heart of the problem. Parents seem to think that popping out a kid entitles them to be above common courtesy. It was your choice to have the kid. You dug your grave, now you have to lie in it, so to speak. Don't drag the rest of society down with you just because you can't make your kid behave.
Just to reiterate above, though, I'm not saying that the very presence of anyone under 13 is my kryptonite and I hate them all by default. But I can't tell you the last time I went to see a movie (that wasn't R-rated or a midnight premier) where someone didn't decide to drag their baby along and let it scream whenever it felt the need.
Well-behaved children are perfectly fine, of course... but those are all but mythical creatures in this day and age. I think I have a slightly higher chance of being struck by lightning than being in the same restaurant/theater as a child whose parents have raised it well enough that it doesn't ruin the experience for everyone.
I really don't understand the argument "kids will be kids" here.
When I was a child, I was afraid of the consequences if I didn't behave in public. Granted, this was when I was a child of an age where rational thought was possible, but if your baby is screaming and being a menace, remove it from the situation until it shuts up. It's not that difficult. But people don't do that, and there's the heart of the problem. Parents seem to think that popping out a kid entitles them to be above common courtesy. It was your choice to have the kid. You dug your grave, now you have to lie in it, so to speak. Don't drag the rest of society down with you just because you can't make your kid behave.
Just to reiterate above, though, I'm not saying that the very presence of anyone under 13 is my kryptonite and I hate them all by default. But I can't tell you the last time I went to see a movie (that wasn't R-rated or a midnight premier) where someone didn't decide to drag their baby along and let it scream whenever it felt the need.
I do think that establishments should kick out families that clearly CANNOT handle their children. But ban children entirely? No. I've worked in a movie theater and I can tell you that the vast majority of children are fairly decently behaved.
If the kids are obnoxious and crazy, it's the fault of the parents for not being able to control them and for not realizing that their child is obviously incapable of enjoying a night out.
If the kids are obnoxious and crazy, it's the fault of the parents for not being able to control them and for not realizing that their child is obviously incapable of enjoying a night out.
Ok easy fix here.
If the kid screams/ causes issues and the parents fail to even try to fix the issue, add a $50 fee for the extra bagage the other people had to deal with.
I usually ignore kids unless their parents are dipshits and fail to control their brats. We have leash laws for a fucking reason.
What if it bit you? Do you know where it has been? Has it had its shots?
In the store everyone can hear you scream and they are planning to kill your parents. Since people are very attached to money I am sure a fine will work.
Oh god it touched me! Where is the disinfectant?
If the kid screams/ causes issues and the parents fail to even try to fix the issue, add a $50 fee for the extra bagage the other people had to deal with.
I usually ignore kids unless their parents are dipshits and fail to control their brats. We have leash laws for a fucking reason.
What if it bit you? Do you know where it has been? Has it had its shots?
In the store everyone can hear you scream and they are planning to kill your parents. Since people are very attached to money I am sure a fine will work.
Oh god it touched me! Where is the disinfectant?
From what I have read it's something that only occurs in really large cities, ya know the kind that have TONS of theaters, restaurants, outdoor areas that not only are okay for, but also accommodate families.
It's private businesses they can do what they want it's their right.
I'm rather intrigued by these no kids vacation spots. It'd be nice to have an actual romantic get-away without some kids screaming up and down the hallway of the hotel at night, or being obnoxious at a restaurant where you have to wear a jacket.
Also, there have been a few supreme court cases saying, yes as a child certain constitutional rights are suspended. One I seem to remember involved protesting.
Before you ask Look them up youself I'm not a search engine.
It's private businesses they can do what they want it's their right.
I'm rather intrigued by these no kids vacation spots. It'd be nice to have an actual romantic get-away without some kids screaming up and down the hallway of the hotel at night, or being obnoxious at a restaurant where you have to wear a jacket.
Private businesses do not have to enforce the constitution only the gov't does. Now if they said "kids aren't allowed in PUBLIC parks" or something like that, then it'd be a constitutional issue.Skullkid4187 said:
Also, there have been a few supreme court cases saying, yes as a child certain constitutional rights are suspended. One I seem to remember involved protesting.
Before you ask Look them up youself I'm not a search engine.
FOR IT! I was the only respectful child at ALL of my schools, the literal, only one, not a single kid there was in any way courteous, kind, or even well mannered enough to say "thank you." A lot of kids today are asses, and very well absorbed asses.
Its also a little bit more then a pain in the ass in my book that kids don't actually LEARN to be these things, nothing teaches them.
Its also a little bit more then a pain in the ass in my book that kids don't actually LEARN to be these things, nothing teaches them.
Private businesses have the right to deny service to pretty much anyone. These companies and businesses are doing something that they do all the time - it's called a risk assessment. Does the extra customer base they bring in by banning children net more revenue than the customer base they had before? If so, then making the move to ban children is good business sense, even if it's ethically murky.
Personally, I'm ambivalent about children. They're sort of like pets. If they misbehave or cause disturbances or damage, it's most likely the fault of the controllers, either parents or owners, respectively. In most cases, it's not fair to blame the child. But, life is inherently unfair, and parents should realize that everyone else is not infatuated with their children and won't make excuses for their behavior. I agree with the more sensible bans, like the first-class section on airplanes. People pay for first-class seats to enjoy extra comfort. Seat-kicking and screaming is not part of that. I also agree with banning children from restaurants that aren't kid-friendly. Yes, you can bring your whole family to Applebees and no one should make a fuss about it. The people that go there should know it's meant for families. But people going to a fancy restaurant want to dine in peace, and it's not an appropriate environment for a child.
These policies have to be made broad and sweeping because employing judgment calls for every case of a misbehaved child causes more problems than it solves. It's opening them up to all kinds of lawsuits and unpleasant behavior that's much worse than just making parents want to take their business elsewhere.
Personally, I'm ambivalent about children. They're sort of like pets. If they misbehave or cause disturbances or damage, it's most likely the fault of the controllers, either parents or owners, respectively. In most cases, it's not fair to blame the child. But, life is inherently unfair, and parents should realize that everyone else is not infatuated with their children and won't make excuses for their behavior. I agree with the more sensible bans, like the first-class section on airplanes. People pay for first-class seats to enjoy extra comfort. Seat-kicking and screaming is not part of that. I also agree with banning children from restaurants that aren't kid-friendly. Yes, you can bring your whole family to Applebees and no one should make a fuss about it. The people that go there should know it's meant for families. But people going to a fancy restaurant want to dine in peace, and it's not an appropriate environment for a child.
These policies have to be made broad and sweeping because employing judgment calls for every case of a misbehaved child causes more problems than it solves. It's opening them up to all kinds of lawsuits and unpleasant behavior that's much worse than just making parents want to take their business elsewhere.
I don't think so. Mostly because it's pretty much assuming all parents are like that woman you mentioned OP and don't do anything.
My mom would have dragged me to the bathroom, destroyed me then dragged me out to sit and I'd better not be crying when I got out. I'm sure there are still parents out there that can regulate their children.
But this ban will ruin things for them too.
For the younger set? If they're toddlers, other methods work too.
My mom would have dragged me to the bathroom, destroyed me then dragged me out to sit and I'd better not be crying when I got out. I'm sure there are still parents out there that can regulate their children.
But this ban will ruin things for them too.
For the younger set? If they're toddlers, other methods work too.
I also vote that you have to be 18 before posting on the internet. I also vote that anyone who speaks in ebonics shouldn't be allowed in stores. I also feel if you you don't get A's in school and go to college you shouldn't be allowed to own a car since you aren't smart enough to drive. Also, this topic annoys me, you shouldn't be allowed to post on this forum anymore.
See how dumb this idea is?
See how dumb this idea is?
In certain situations I can understand it, but in grocery stores? That's a bit much, isn't it?
Banning them from outdoor parks is just ludicrous, how does that help anyone, let alone the parents? Now, some of them are understandable, why somebody would bring their baby in first class is beyond me (where did they get the extra dough?), and some restaurants are just mainly for adults. But child-free movies? If there are children in your movie, either you're in a children's movie or the theater didn't do their job right.
See, the thing about these bans, and the people supporting them, is that they don't seem to realize that the parents don't like it any more than anyone else does. I'd imagine it's embarrassing when your kid flips out over not getting the gummy worms. Sometimes kids are just kids like that.
Banning them from outdoor parks is just ludicrous, how does that help anyone, let alone the parents? Now, some of them are understandable, why somebody would bring their baby in first class is beyond me (where did they get the extra dough?), and some restaurants are just mainly for adults. But child-free movies? If there are children in your movie, either you're in a children's movie or the theater didn't do their job right.
See, the thing about these bans, and the people supporting them, is that they don't seem to realize that the parents don't like it any more than anyone else does. I'd imagine it's embarrassing when your kid flips out over not getting the gummy worms. Sometimes kids are just kids like that.
I fucking hate children, but they need to be socialized. If they don't adapt to how society works early on and don't get that loving, "Shut the fuck up," look from their parents, they're going to be screaming, annoying brats for the rest of their lives. That said, bringing your child to Walmart should be a crime punishable by death.
You do realize that was sarcasm... I was thinking the next paragraph starting with "Seriously" would be a huge clue. Then to continue on to point out complaining about anyone that distracts from your enjoyment would be a further clue as to the first paragraph being sarcastic... But hey, you got to be offended, all is fair here... Enjoy.Matt Dellar said: