Poll: Obesity: fat people or true illness?

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
This is not so much meant to be insulting as it is more of an actual honest question. Should people honestly recognize that others truly are illed and been looked upon as victims or should we see people as fat lazy ass slobbs who have made their own life choices. I for one am caught right in the middle please to persuade me to one side.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

New member
Sep 30, 2008
2,442
0
0
Well, it isn't so cut and dry. Some people are lazy and become fat, some people are basically fat for life due to slower than normal metabolisms, other people don't know when to stop eating. It is never black and white no matter how it may appear.
 

GreenDevilJF

New member
Dec 9, 2008
182
0
0
There are exceptions, but I would much rather not consider obesity an illness but more a side effect of being lazy.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
I have a wonderful diet, I have a very active life. I'm doing an hour to almost up to three hours of aerobics and calisthenics a day. I weight train 3 times a week.
And yet I can't lose a single pound.
My friend, eats four times as much as I could eat in a day. He sleeps until noon, and never exercises except for once a month at his reserves drill.
yet he weighs 150 pounds.

There is far more to weight problems then "exercising, laziness, and diet.".
 

Avatar Roku

New member
Jul 9, 2008
6,169
0
0
My brother is overweight, despite playing sports and having tried every diet on the face of the earth. So, it's illness for some at least.
 

Aardvark

New member
Sep 9, 2008
1,721
0
0
Though there are an honest-to-god segment of the chubster community who have a legitimate medical concern, the majority of them are lardbuckets because when forced to choose between not stuffing their fat faces while avoiding exercise and living healthily, they chose to shovel garbage down their throats until they turned into humongous blobbermeisters, who's very presence influences the tides.

Says the guy who recently traded his six-pack in for a keg.
 

Dommyboy

New member
Jul 20, 2008
2,439
0
0
Weight problems can be genetic. Sometimes exercise and eating healthy can do nothing for you at all. Such is life. I am actually quite skinny and weigh at 70kg at 6foot4 height, I barely excercise properly and don't eat entirely healthy all the time but I stay skinny. Though despite this if I never did excercise or sports I guess I would be quite the chubby chap.
 

Xan Krieger

Completely insane
Feb 11, 2009
2,918
0
0
Fat unless it's a medical thing. If they do not have a medical problem then they should not be allowed in buffets. As it stands the only good part about fat people in buffets is I get to go whale watching.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Hunde Des Krieg said:
Well, it isn't so cut and dry. Some people are lazy and become fat, some people are basically fat for life due to slower than normal metabolisms, other people don't know when to stop eating. It is never black and white no matter how it may appear.
Also, some people have lifestyles that don't have time for things like "cooking" and "sleep."
 

Flap Jack452

New member
Jan 5, 2009
1,998
0
0
MaxTheReaper said:
Also, some people have lifestyles that don't have time for things like "cooking" and "sleep."
I have time for them, I just don't do them that often.

Sayings its genetic is malarky, thats just a shallow excuse made by the lazies in order to justify their obesity. Both my mom and my dad are overweight but I am healthy and active. This applies for my two brothers as well (One of them holds the 100 yard butterfly record at our school.)
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Flap Jack452 said:
MaxTheReaper said:
Also, some people have lifestyles that don't have time for things like "cooking" and "sleep."
I have time for them, I just don't do them that often.

Sayings its genetic is malarky, thats just a shallow excuse made by the lazies in order to justify their obesity. Both my mom and my dad are overweight but I am healthy and active. This applies for my two brothers as well (One of them holds the 100 yard butterfly record at our school.)
Yeah, but are they overweight because of a medical issue, or because they're lazy? Laziness isn't genetic, as I am proof of (dear god my parents are hard workers.)
I've taken to cooking all of my meals (mostly fish) because fast food doesn't taste that good, for one, and is more expensive, for two.
I don't really need exercise 'cause I'm not really fat, but somehow I doubt it would have much effect unless I completely changed my lifestyle.
Good thing I don't need to, then.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
I think it's a bit of both, as hormonal imbalance can cause obesity, because there is a small percentage of people in "skinnier" cultures such as Japan that are still obese. However, when the obesity rate is 25% (Or whatever ridiculous number it is in America) you must blame some of the people for being that way.
 

Extravaganza

New member
Mar 2, 2009
188
0
0
Alot of being fat is luck of the draw.
Because metabolism is a big part of being "____"Pounds
on the other hand if you really care (and your not lazy) you can be skinny like most

<--- Skinny
 

Raven's Nest

New member
Feb 19, 2009
2,955
0
0
Obesity is an illness caused by fat people becoming fatter. I'm not trying to be clever (i'm probably not anyway) but it doesn't matter what your lifestyle is, any medical problems you may have, genetics, becoming obese is entirely your fault.

Since obesity is the term for someone who is very overweight according to their BMI. Anyone who has let themselves become obese has done it by themselves. They have all physically eaten too much and not exercised to compensate for it. The only possible exception is to those people who cannot feel when they are full. However It only takes a little bit of common sense to work out what the right amount of food to eat is...

(It's written on the nutritious infomation part of any packaged food...)

The recommended daily allowance of 2500 calories a day for a man, 2000 for a woman. If you happen to be twice the size of an average man that does not mean you need 4000 calories to survive. Do the math fatties!
 

Flap Jack452

New member
Jan 5, 2009
1,998
0
0
MaxTheReaper said:
Flap Jack452 said:
MaxTheReaper said:
Also, some people have lifestyles that don't have time for things like "cooking" and "sleep."
I have time for them, I just don't do them that often.

Sayings its genetic is malarky, thats just a shallow excuse made by the lazies in order to justify their obesity. Both my mom and my dad are overweight but I am healthy and active. This applies for my two brothers as well (One of them holds the 100 yard butterfly record at our school.)
Yeah, but are they overweight because of a medical issue, or because they're lazy? Laziness isn't genetic, as I am proof of (dear god my parents are hard workers.)
I've taken to cooking all of my meals (mostly fish) because fast food doesn't taste that good, for one, and is more expensive, for two.
I don't really need exercise 'cause I'm not really fat, but somehow I doubt it would have much effect unless I completely changed my lifestyle.
Good thing I don't need to, then.
My dad has always been overweight, but it's not genetic. It's just the way he is, he played linebacker in football his whole life, college included. But back then he was heavy but in shape and ridiculously strong, y'know? Nows he's just heavy and out of shape. My mom was also very active in high school/college. She did cheerleading and all that jazz. But she's gotten overweight just out of pure laziness. Call me crazy but I like to exercise. I like my legs feeling burnt out and tired after running because I know I'm only getting stronger.
 

Railu

New member
Aug 7, 2008
173
0
0
I'm fairly thin, about 150 lbs. One of the biggest differences I've noticed between me and overweight people is that food doesn't give me pleasure. You ever hear of "comfort food"? Of course, because it's something you eat to feel better. I have no comfort food. Food doesn't make me feel anything but full.

But I do enjoy delicious meals, but I don't seek it out and when I am stressed, I eat less not more.

I can't tell you the name of the program because it was a few years ago on the Discovery Channel, but there is one that talked about this issue. They took a group of chronically overweight people and gave them an MRI while feeding them some of their favorites foods. Those same people had an increase in dopamine in their brain, the same reaction drug addicts get while getting high.

Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you. There is a difference between overeaters and overweight people. The moment you call it an illness though, is the moment you give those sufferers a fallback when they can't do it. "It's not my fault, I'm sick". Please. You need a kick in the ass, not a cuddle.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Oi, everyones always posting about fat people, but what about the thin people????? Im on the verge of beign 100 pounds here and i cant gain any weight!
and before you say it no im not any kind of addict to anything i eat normal(plus any sweets i want) and sit at home alot.
 

cleverlymadeup

New member
Mar 7, 2008
5,256
0
0
there's a few things to it but mostly it's a choice and how you decide to live your life and the food you eat.

for those that say "it's genetic" it is in as far as your parents are fat lard asses and you end up being one too, so it's more social genetic than actually something in your dna. basically your parents didn't teach you to eat properly. my cousins for example a couple of them are fat, simply because my aunt would feed them french fries and fried food instead of healthy stuff, when we were younger my one cousin would refuse to eat veggies unless they were covered in gravy or some other sauce

as for the not being able to lose weight, that really comes down to what you're eating. if you want to lose weigth, cut out a lot of carbs and protein, ie meat and potatoes/rice, and keep active. you have to eat very healthy and you will drop weight, also cut out any fried foods, pop, drink pure juice and lots of fruit and veggies.

i got a bit of a belly but i do know how to get rid of it, i'm just being lazy. i just have to work at doing it.

now where the genetics comes in is where your fat gathers first, for me it's my belly, the rest of my body is mostly fat free. the only real exception really is females who typically gain fat in their hips first off but that's more for child rearing than anything else
 

Samurai Goomba

New member
Oct 7, 2008
3,679
0
0
A combination of too much food, bad nutrition, not enough exercise and genetics, or at least a combination of a couple of these things. Aside from genetics, all of these things can be dealt with. With this in mind, I consider weight problems (including my own-I could stand to lose 30 pounds) about 85% the fault of the fatty in question.

I don't believe this is a "life choice" because aside from Sumo Wrestlers, I can't think of many people who want to be fat, or wouldn't be happier if they were a bit thinner or healthier. I'm not saying everyone should be 20 pounds underweight, but those 500-pound behemoths weren't "born" that way.
 

black lincon

New member
Aug 21, 2008
1,960
0
0
It depends, there are genetic predispositions to obesity and then there are fat lazy people. it's impossible to tell without genetic testing but I'm willing to bet the majority of obese people are just lazy, like me.
 

Mounce

New member
Nov 6, 2008
4
0
0
I say Genetics is an excuse so society can yet again play the blame game and point their fingers at anything but themselves.

Obesity is pathetic, and at the most of it all it's either you can only blame yourself from lack of determination, will power, and what most have these days called, Laziness.

The other problem, and it's not the bull of what people blame called 'genetics', it's called Bad Parenting, monkey-see monkey-do, if your parents are fat, eat fat, drink fat, crap fat, buy fat, and eat like fat people do, you'll grow up to be the same or similar enough in most cases.

Saying ones fatness is because of genetics is just someones pathetic way of saying "I give up, but hey, don't blame me, it's just in my blood and I can't fight it", meaning they are losers to their own paranoia and fear that they won't succeed. Fear and self-esteem conquers people too easily.

To see the world turning as fat as it is, even OUTSIDE of the U.S., it truly disgusts and saddens me, anyone can lose weight, all it takes is discipline and will power in order to see a brighter future.

The only way obesity is an Illness is to people mentally, not genetically (It's all in your head). Dissability is obviously because you're an unhealthy sack of whale-blubber! What I hate more are those who act proud of it, it's perhaps a little more healthy then going emo and crying to sleep wondering why no one wants to have sex with you, but the whole situation where some people act 'Proud' of being bear-sized is mind-boggling. Yes, let's be proud! Be proud that you're destroying your body, stressing your skin and organs an extreme amount especially the heart, and the fact that you won't live very long. The trick is, only be proud of something if it extends your life, not declining!....

I am a foodoholic/Baker/Self-teaching-soon-to-be-cook, 20 y/o, and I weigh 120lbs, I used to weigh 155lbs, but I lost it in my spare time by damn doing 3 situp-sessions, 3 times a day for 3 months, I lost around 10-11lbs per month. Limiting food, schedules, discipline, 'Routine' and of course working out, slowly but surely you'll adjust, enjoy the good sides of it and become truly happy.

MEH.
 

Inverse Skies

New member
Feb 3, 2009
3,630
0
0
Trust me, it's a true illness. The amount of epidemilogical studies, genetic studies, nutritional pattern studies and thousands of other pieces of research that have been done on this topic conclude that it is an actual illness.

The reason obesity is so present it is actually selected for in terms of genetics. Remember, when humanity first evolved we were little more than smart hunters and conseqeuntly didn't eat as regulary as we do nowadays. Following Charles Darwins theory of evolution, humans who were more likely to store energy as fat were more likely to survive as they could live off those fat stores until the next meal came around. These traits have therefore survived in todays population, but are not necessary because of our abundant supply of energy-rich food.

It's not just genetic components, obesity is a multifactorial illness with both genetic, enviromental and social factors which contribute to it developing.

Genetics: - The aforementioned predisposition to deposit fat, but numerous other genes are candidates as well. There is a gene which promotes fidgeting which studies have shown slimmer people are more likely to have, as these numerous little bursts of activity throughout the day eat up of lot of kilojoules meaning less weight. There's also genes which control things called uncoupling proteins. These proteins basically uncouple the oxidative phosphorylation process in the mitochondrion, so instead of NADH, FADH2 being used to produce energy its used to produce heat instead, meaning less energy is stored as fat. Theres also numerous appetite/satiety genes which control hormones such as leptin, ghrelin, PYY3-36 which an over or underproduction or defective production can lead to weight issues.

Enviroment/Society: - Epidemilogical studies have shown that people living in an area of lower socio-economic status are more likely to weigh more, with the most likely reasons being less education, poorer parenting skills, less safe areas for outdoor recreational activity and a higher access to energy-dense foods. Studies have even shown that whilst kids used to walk or ride bikes to school, parents nowadays are too scared for their childrens safety so instead they drive them, depriving them of valueable exercise.

You can't simply blame obesity on genetics. The way our society operates, especially with its overproduction of rich, fatty foods, has a massive impact on the way this illness has reached an almost pandemic status. It's an insidious disease, with consequences such as high blood glucose levels leading to type two diabetes mellitus, hypertension, atherosclerosis, renal failure, colo-rectal cancer, stomach cancer and so on which makes it so dangerous and such a theat to society.

The consensus of the medical society is that it is a disease and studies back up their viewpoint.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Flap Jack452 said:
MaxTheReaper said:
Also, some people have lifestyles that don't have time for things like "cooking" and "sleep."
I have time for them, I just don't do them that often.

Sayings its genetic is malarky, thats just a shallow excuse made by the lazies in order to justify their obesity. Both my mom and my dad are overweight but I am healthy and active. This applies for my two brothers as well (One of them holds the 100 yard butterfly record at our school.)
And that proves what?

Genetic doesn't mean it HAS to pass onto the next generation. If your grand grand father was black, while you are white, you might have a black son/daughter, even though your whole family was white for a few generations. Same thing here.

Some people are naturally fat, and some are naturally skinny. There is no "right" weight people should be measured against. My own brother stuffs himself with junkfood and sleeps like 12 hours every day, and doesn't really do too much exercise, and he weights only 40 or 50 kilos.

It's not an excuse. It's literally impossible for some people to lose or gain weight with anything short of plastic operation, which fucking suck.
 

JWAN

New member
Dec 27, 2008
2,725
0
0
medications can affect your weight easily , so can illness and laziness also affects your weight

its both

Cancer treatments can cause obesity as well
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
Because society allows people to be mean to fat people, especially in this day and age when ripping on anything else is a violation of political correctness. Doesn't make it right. Belittling people for pointless crap like that is, as you put it, cruel and dumb.
 

Ancientgamer

New member
Jan 16, 2009
1,346
0
0
People keep saying that calling it "genetics" is an excuse, and the provide absolutely no proof to back that statement up.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
GreenDevilJF said:
There are exceptions, but I would much rather not consider obesity an illness but more a side effect of being lazy.
Mounce said:
I say Genetics is an excuse so society can yet again play the blame game and point their fingers at anything but themselves.
black lincon said:
It depends, there are genetic predispositions to obesity and then there are fat lazy people. it's impossible to tell without genetic testing but I'm willing to bet the majority of obese people are just lazy, like me.
cleverlymadeup said:
there's a few things to it but mostly it's a choice and how you decide to live your life and the food you eat.
ravens_nest said:
Obesity is an illness caused by fat people becoming fatter. I'm not trying to be clever (i'm probably not anyway) but it doesn't matter what your lifestyle is, any medical problems you may have, genetics, becoming obese is entirely your fault.
Aardvark said:
Though there are an honest-to-god segment of the chubster community who have a legitimate medical concern, the majority of them are lardbuckets because when forced to choose between not stuffing their fat faces while avoiding exercise and living healthily, they chose to shovel garbage down their throats until they turned into humongous blobbermeisters, who's very presence influences the tides.
Xan Krieger said:
Fat unless it's a medical thing. If they do not have a medical problem then they should not be allowed in buffets. As it stands the only good part about fat people in buffets is I get to go whale watching.

Dr Dhurandhar's team took blood samples from people an obesity clinic.

They tested it for antibodies to Adenovirus-36 and found that 20% of the patients had encountered the virus at some point and were significantly heavier than their antibody negative counterparts.

In another study, they showed that obese people were nearly three times more likely to have the virus than a non obese person and even amongst the non obese group, those with the virus were heavier than average.

Dr Dhurandhar said: "When this virus goes to the fat tissue it replicates making more copies of itself and in the process increases the number of fat cells, which may explain why people get fat when infected with this virus."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7851031.stm

+++++

As for fat people and health care costs:

But a pair of new epidemiological studies reveals that these attempts to wring money out of the obese are misleading and misguided. Worse, the obesity cost estimates used to justify them are a danger to public health.

The first paper, published by a Dutch team in the journal PLoS Medicine, challenges the basic assumption that fat people are more expensive to treat. It's true that if you compare two people of the same age and wealth, one slim and the other obese, you can expect the fatter one to have more chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension. The fatter patient will also make more visits to the doctor, buy more prescription drugs, and otherwise ring up higher medical bills in a given year.

But this analytical approach?used routinely by Finkelstein and other obesity number crunchers?ignores one important fact: Obese people have shorter life spans. Since the elderly are by far the costliest patients, it's possible that early deaths save taxpayers money in the long run. In fact, fatal diseases almost always return net-cost savings to public health care. Smoking, which causes a host of particularly deadly conditions, turns out to be especially cheap?which is to say, government attempts to curb nicotine addiction have actually cost the United States money. (Niggling mental disorders and musculoskeletal diseases tend to be more expensive.)


http://www.slate.com/id/2184475/
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
johnx61 said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
Because society allows people to be mean to fat people, especially in this day and age when ripping on anything else is a violation of political correctness. Doesn't make it right. Belittling people for pointless crap like that is, as you put it, cruel and dumb.
True. I wonder if it's the shame about being so dumb that gives rise to the desire to treat others with cruelty for no other reason than the fact that they have a different sort of body.
 

CrafterMan

New member
Aug 3, 2008
920
0
0
TheNecroswanson said:
I have a wonderful diet, I have a very active life. I'm doing an hour to almost up to three hours of aerobics and calisthenics a day. I weight train 3 times a week.
And yet I can't lose a single pound.
My friend, eats four times as much as I could eat in a day. He sleeps until noon, and never exercises except for once a month at his reserves drill.
yet he weighs 150 pounds.

There is far more to weight problems then "exercising, laziness, and diet.".

How much do you weigh Necro?
 

insanelich

Reportable Offender
Sep 3, 2008
443
0
0
It can be both and more.

Though, you quite literally cannot get fat if you get a certain sort of genetic profile.

And then some have other conditions piled on top of it.

... I'll *always* remain heavy because of my genes, but I could be 200lbs instead of 300lbs would my other conditions get treated.

... and that is complicated by yet other diseases. Not everyone overweight is lazy.

So, yeah. Laziness alone cannot get you fat. Laziness combined with the right (wrong?) kind of genes can get you fat. And then there's the cases who literally cannot be thin, but usually these people have more wrong with them as well.

Both the cases who can't be fat and the cases that can't be thin (without extensive medical attention - and maybe not even then) are rare however. Most people just have different levels of difficulty in maintaining their desired body shape - whatever that may be.
 

Inverse Skies

New member
Feb 3, 2009
3,630
0
0
vivaldiscool said:
People keep saying that calling it "genetics" is an excuse, and the provide absolutely no proof to back that statement up.
Uh, it's not JUST genetics. Obesity is a multifactorial illness, meaning it has genetic AND environmental factors. Medical groups know that the abundant amounts of energy-rich fatty foods has contributed to the problem, but genetics is a huge part of it as well.

Look at my previous post for examples on genetic problems which can cause weight issues.

Also, have you ever heard of a disease called Cushings? Cushings is a disease where to much cortisol is released from the adrenal glands leading to obesity because cortisol is a stress hormone which promotes the redistribution of body fat leading to obesity. Cushings is either caused by a cortisol secreting tumour on the adrenal gland, or a tumour of the pituitary gland causing an over release of ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone) which stimulates the release of cortisol. That's a multifactorial illness with genetic and environmental factors that causes obesity. True it's not the cause of every obese individual but genetic factors ARE significant.
 

Raven's Nest

New member
Feb 19, 2009
2,955
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
ravens_nest said:
Obesity is an illness caused by fat people becoming fatter. I'm not trying to be clever (i'm probably not anyway) but it doesn't matter what your lifestyle is, any medical problems you may have, genetics, becoming obese is entirely your fault.

Dr Dhurandhar's team took blood samples from people an obesity clinic.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7851031.stm

+++++

As for fat people and health care costs:



http://www.slate.com/id/2184475/


I'm not really sure why you have alerted me to this. Please can you explain your thoughts on the matter?
 

Syntax Error

New member
Sep 7, 2008
2,323
0
0
Just last Saturday, I went to the gym for about three hours. Later that day I felt burnt out and constantly hungry (luckily there's an ample supply of tuna spread at my house). I maintain 150 pounds, which is within the normal range for my height.
 

Frizzle

New member
Nov 11, 2008
605
0
0
Although it's less of a problem, "skinny" people face the same dillema. They can still have health problems from being too thin etc. As for larger people, I still maintain that MOST of them are that way due to lack of exercise and eating too much of the wrong thing.

Yes, I am part of the thin crowd, but I still have to work hard to maintain any sort of muscle on my body. Everyone needs to watch and controll their diet. Everyone.
 

Railu

New member
Aug 7, 2008
173
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept. Since you went there, I will also call names (idiot) since you also missed the point. That is why I said there is a difference between overweight people and people who over eat.

There is that timeless expression: you are what you eat. If you eat lots of crap, your body will be crap. I eat 1-2 meals a day. Not really that healthy, but I never said that you needed to be lean to be healthy. You can eat healthy food 3 times a day and still be large, those are not the people we're talking about. If you're happy gourging at an all-you-can fish n' chips buffet, all the power to you. But if you're not, don't do it.

How is that even controversial? It's basic will power. If you don't have the mental discipline to overcome it, at least be happy doing it and don't complain about the side effects.
 

Reaperman Wompa

New member
Aug 6, 2008
2,564
0
0
GreenDevilJF said:
There are exceptions, but I would much rather not consider obesity an illness but more a side effect of being lazy.
That, I'm fat and I know it's my fault. All these "I'm just big boned *eats cake*" people piss me off, do something about it or admit it.
 

Lyiat

New member
Dec 10, 2008
405
0
0
Some people are predesposed to a heavier body set. This is pretty much cut and dry, done and done. There is absolutely no reason, however, to be three hundred, four hundred pounds. That type of person engages in little to no physical activity and doesn't regulate their intake what so ever.
I'm 5'7 and I've been a hundred and forty five pounds for a long time. I am a gamer, and I do not have a physical activity to participate in (I haven't practiced karate in about three, four years). This winter, however, I suddenly shot up twenty pounds with no hight gain. So, what am I doing? More salad, push-ups in the morning, and I'm looking to get into the Society for Creative Archaism to participate in Heavy List sparring (Dressing up as knights and going at it with sticks). Guess what? I'm back down to 145.

The people I know that are rediculously overweight are the people who used to be able to eat anything they wanted and not gain a pound. As they got older, however, the weight started to gain... and they didn't change how they live their lives. A problem slowly grew, and now they are completely overweight and don't know how to fix it. What does this become...? An incurable disease.
 

Ancientgamer

New member
Jan 16, 2009
1,346
0
0
Inverse Skies said:
vivaldiscool said:
People keep saying that calling it "genetics" is an excuse, and the provide absolutely no proof to back that statement up.
Uh, it's not JUST genetics. Obesity is a multifactorial illness, meaning it has genetic AND environmental factors. Medical groups know that the abundant amounts of energy-rich fatty foods has contributed to the problem, but genetics is a huge part of it as well.

Look at my previous post for examples on genetic problems which can cause weight issues.

Also, have you ever heard of a disease called Cushings? Cushings is a disease where to much cortisol is released from the adrenal glands leading to obesity because cortisol is a stress hormone which promotes the redistribution of body fat leading to obesity. Cushings is either caused by a cortisol secreting tumour on the adrenal gland, or a tumour of the pituitary gland causing an over release of ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone) which stimulates the release of cortisol. That's a multifactorial illness with genetic and environmental factors that causes obesity. True it's not the cause of every obese individual but genetic factors ARE significant.
I...uh, wait, are you agreeing with me? I was talking to the people who say genetics "Is just an excuse."


Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept. Since you went there, I will also call names (idiot) since you also missed the point. That is why I said there is a difference between overweight people and people who over eat.

There is that timeless expression: you are what you eat. If you eat lots of crap, your body will be crap. I eat 1-2 meals a day. Not really that healthy, but I never said that you needed to be lean to be healthy. You can eat healthy food 3 times a day and still be large, those are not the people we're talking about. If you're happy gourging at an all-you-can fish n' chips buffet, all the power to you. But if you're not, don't do it.

How is that even controversial? It's basic will power. If you don't have the mental discipline to overcome it, at least be happy doing it and don't complain about the side effects.
While I see what you're getting at, weight loss doesn't work like that at all.
 

SenseOfTumour

New member
Jul 11, 2008
4,514
0
0
Yes, I'll fully agree that the vast majority of people who are fat are there thru lack of willpower or plain greed.

However, does this give everyone the right to abuse the minority who are medically trapped in a larger frame?

Also, was nice to see someone else use my argument and bother to back it with facts, as I generally don't.

The way I see it, I like pies, highly taxed, expensive pies.

That tax money goes into healthcare in Britain, and when I die in my 40s or 50s, I've just saved my country a galactic fuckload of cash by not claiming a pension for maybe 30 years, despite having worked and paid for it, and not ending up in a care home at 85, having a horrible quality of life yet still clinging on miserably and costing the taxpayer stacks of cash.

Now I'm not saying, as the famous mediator Jerry Sadowitz did ' all old people should shot at birth' but, I'm pretty sure we cost less over our life span than a healthy long living person, as even the healthiest people end up needing a lot of care in their 80s and 90s, in most cases, and yes, I'm sure you know a 95 year old who goes jogging every morning.

Also in this time of green concerns and low stores of fossil fuels, perhaps they can cremate me and use my body to power a school for 6 months, hell drain the fat off and you can probably run one of those biodiesel cars on it for a few hundred miles too. You'd be lucky to power a unicycle for ten feet from the corpse of one of those yoga crazy tofu eating freaks.

BTW I don't really hate skinny or healthy people, just the ones who choose to judge me.

As James Corden (the fat bloke from Gavin n Stacey) said recently, how come is I've got celeb mates who are snorting half of columbia up their nose on a friday night in a club, and I say I popped into McD's for a cheeseburger, and I get "how can you put that stuff in your body?"

To all the anti fatties, I hope you don't drink, smoke, do extreme sports (as you endanger yourself and cost the medical system), have unsafe sex, or take any other form of pleasure that someone else disagrees with.

I normally consider Boris Johnson the mayor of London a bumbling idiot, but when asked about his own healthy eating he just snapped 'oh for gods sake, can't a bloke have a pie?' How nice to hear an admission against what is expected, and not just 'oh yes I get up at 5am, hog for 4 hours, come back for a nice big bowl of broccoli then meditate for seven more hours'.

um, *looks up at my post* did I overreact? I don't really care, honest!
 

SenseOfTumour

New member
Jul 11, 2008
4,514
0
0
Also, hurry up with those pills that absorb fat and sugar, once they're out in easy supply we can all go back to enjoying food and all look like models and every can hop down from their pedestal of 'oo look at me I had a salad'.

For me, the main problem isn't about food, its about exercise, over the past 50 years, we've mostly moved to jobs that involve sitting on your arse all day, so of course it's harder to burn off the calories you take in over the course of a day, and on top of that food has got higher in calories and far easier to get hold of.

No-one needs to cook anything, except maybe spin it in the microwave for 2 minutes on high.
Most prepackaged food is stuffed with fat, sugar and salt, even the 'low fat/sugar' ones.
You'll find if it's low fat its high sugar and vice versa.
 

Death916

New member
Apr 21, 2008
773
0
0
well i think it can be either or. Some people get fat because of metabolic or gland problems, and others get fat from Twinkie and couch problems
 

Eclectic Dreck

New member
Sep 3, 2008
6,662
0
0
The short answer is that the problem is quite simply fat people. The more important answer probably comes from the sheer number of fat people I see from day to day. While i'm certain that 99.9% of the fat people I know are completely capable of both losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight, I also am equally certain that most of them simply will not. That the problem is self inflicted is obvious, but troubling. It seems as though it has become far to easy to be fat these days - and yet it takes so LITTLE effort to maintain a healthy weight. While I don't expect most people to copy my own lifestyle (I fence about 20 hours a week on average) I also know that even when I wasn't terribly active I managed to stay thin by not eating everything that I could catch.

In short, it's an illness but more of a cultural one than anything. I deny victimhood to all fat people as a rule, because I'm nearly certain there is SOME law of physics that states if you eat less and exercise more you lose weight.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
CrafterMan said:
TheNecroswanson said:
I have a wonderful diet, I have a very active life. I'm doing an hour to almost up to three hours of aerobics and calisthenics a day. I weight train 3 times a week.
And yet I can't lose a single pound.
My friend, eats four times as much as I could eat in a day. He sleeps until noon, and never exercises except for once a month at his reserves drill.
yet he weighs 150 pounds.

There is far more to weight problems then "exercising, laziness, and diet.".

How much do you weigh Necro?
I'd rather not divulge that, but it's above 220, but below 260.
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
My family is comprised of 1 mother, 4 fathers.

There are 9 kids.

All are tall/skinny, except for the child of the obese father. My mother has always been a bit fluffy, and sometimes outright fat.

The child of the fat father/mother is very large for her age and seemingly can't control her hunger or metabolism unlike the other 8 siblings. She can fit into her mother's clothes at age 10.

With the same mother, but different (and slim) father, I weighed 150 lbs at 6'1" through High School. I didn't eat healthy, drank a lot of soda, and after shifts at Red Robin as a bus boy, I'd often get a Large Dairy Queen blizzard (probably like 700-900 calories by itself). I didn't play sports. I escaped reality in Everquest and RPGs. Outside my job, I was not physically active.

It's a very clear case to me for genetics, based on what I plainly see in my life. Of course, eating fat foods eventually makes anyone fat, though, genetic predispositions can be a curse or a cheat-code.

I'm 22 and 165 lbs now, after being deployed on an aircraft carrier several months at a time over the last 3 years with nothing to do but workout. Still slim with a bit more muscle.

Just like prison, but less shower-rape =D.
 

space_oddity

New member
Oct 24, 2008
514
0
0
There is no gene that controls obesity. You cannot be predisposed to being overweight, regardless of metabolic rate or any other biochemical factor.

I believe obesity will be what early 21st century will be remembered for throughout history. Our descendants will read about a time when 1 in 2 children born in USA/UK/Australia will spend most of their lives clinically overweight, while globally, 1 in 5 people will live their entire lives in poverty.
 

Smiles

New member
Mar 7, 2008
476
0
0
I take after my mom, a lot, it freaks me out. everybody always tells me we look alike, which she finds flattering but I have always considered an insult because my mom is fat, has been my whole life... never eats healthy, and I take after her....
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Obesity is neither a disease nor just "fat people"; obesity is the state of a person who's body mass index classifies them as such. I am 6'0" 280lbs, and I am by no means "fat". Weight lifters would fall under the obesity section of the BMI but they too are by no means fat. How fat you are depends on your body fat percentage. My aunt has like 2% body fat on her, and I feel if i were to hug her, she would snap in half.

I do not feel that every fat person who walks into a department of motor vehicles should be issued a handicapped sticker. I walked in after a 6'0" 230lbs man to get my handicapped sticker because I was "clinically obese". He got his, but I didn't get mine. Why? Because he was fat and I was not.

Handicapped people can not help the state they are in, they can't re-grow their legs or their spines or w/e. Most fat people can help whether they will stay fat or not. The ones who can't (and there are some out there) should be issued their handicapped stickers. I know some people have thyroid issues or glandular problems, and that's understandable; but the moron who gets a Quarter Pounder with cheese every day for lunch and wonders why he's fat, no, he shouldn't get one.

I had a fat teacher who felt that eating all she wanted was so much healthier for her than smoking. She even did a lecture on it. At one point she said "sure I'm fat, but all I'm doing is eating, I'm not harming my body they way smokers do." At the end she asked if anyone had any questions or comments and I said "Smoking does to your lungs, what eating constant fatty foods with loads of saturated fat does to your heart. Over eating can be just as bad for you as smoking can, if you don't believe that than you are blind and ignorant and have no right teaching." I left the class and dropped it immediately.

I can go on and on about fat people, like the ones who get breast reduction surgery cause they're "too big" when in actuality the person is just too fat, and when (and if) they lose the fat, well, now they don't have any breasts either and look horribly disproportionate; but I'll stop now, some of the nicest people I know are fat, but all those people chose the way they are, none of them were born with health problems that plagued themselves with glandular problems.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
I've started a new diet since Lent, all I eat are beans and corn tortillas and water, they have all the essential nutrients a human body needs with none of the negativities. I am mainly doing it as an extra credit assignment for Biology, but I am also curious of what my results will be after 40 days.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
This is actually false, besides the "quit food and you die" argument.

Heroin addicts will never be able to "quit" because heroin physically alters the shape, size, and roughness of your brain. So even if you stop doing it, you will still always be addicted.
 

sleeperhit79

New member
Feb 6, 2009
74
0
0
well, it is a little bit of everything. First of all we rely on stupid outdated body mass indexes that have been around for like a century, and second we forget that genetics have a lot to do with it and third we have this obscenely dumb thiking that says we have to have six packs in order to be healthy when in reality six pack abs are one of the weirdest things and the reason they're to hard to get is because they're not exactly natural. So yes obesity is a disease, but obesity is not always what we think, I for one am 220+ lbs and 5'9" and about 20% body fat and just based on the numbers people might say "OBESE!!" but if you saw me you wouldn't think that, I am simply built thick like a tree trunk and my bone density is pretty high(yes there is such a thing as big boned. Obesity is a disease, but I think when you have trouble getting up off the couch or walking up stairs or simply walking aroun in the grocery store then you have a problem. You don't just catch that disease, just like they don't catch a broken leg, it's because of a bad lifestyle and it starts as a choice, but at some point it becomes a disease.
 

[Gavo]

New member
Jun 29, 2008
1,675
0
0
Actually, I am considered "Obese" under the BMI scale. However, I'm only slightly chubby, I don't look fat, but no one would mistake me for the "bean sprout" body type. That's probably because I'm really tall. 6'4 and 235 pounds.

I think I have a really slow metabolism. Does anyone know any ways to speed it up?
 

Inverse Skies

New member
Feb 3, 2009
3,630
0
0
vivaldiscool said:
I...uh, wait, are you agreeing with me? I was talking to the people who say genetics "Is just an excuse."
Oh... maybe I am agreeing with you then. That's what happens when you don't read posts correctly/misinterpret them :)

Aside: Vivaldi is a very good composer, especially the first movement of spring from the four seasons. Too much of an emphasis on concertos though, although it is nice to hear him use some more obscure instruments such as flutes or oboes for those concertos.
 

Bertruam

New member
Feb 7, 2009
226
0
0
I used to be fat. Just like twenty pounds over, nothing serious like the extra hundred some people carry. So i started to exercise and started eater less junk food. Problem solved. I know its actually hard for some people but doing simple things like jogging in place while watching TV or using the computer.
 

ParkourMcGhee

New member
Jan 4, 2008
1,219
0
0
I'm around 190 pounds (rough), or 87 kg. 1m 80 (6 ft) - so slightly obese... or so the chart says. However my fat% is low to medium :D. Always being the 'crazy and really strong guy' means I never turned blobby because I always showed off my strength constantly, and exercised (not to mention my mum is in charge of cooking a variety of things).

I'm quite happy with my shape right now, and though I don't have a proper 6-pack: I can still run like a feker (again this isn't determined so much by weight as is by fitness and going to the gym won't solve your problem there unless you spend a long time in there), and I can pick up anybody twice my weight as long as they keep still (girls kicking their legs are much more difficult to kidnap).

So I'm going for fatness being a lifestyle, and not being something you can change instantly, or even quickly. But a lifetime thing and a very slow and painful process - kind of like old people medicine.

I do realize that I use too many brackets yes.
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
space_oddity said:
There is no gene that controls obesity. You cannot be predisposed to being overweight, regardless of metabolic rate or any other biochemical factor.

I believe obesity will be what early 21st century will be remembered for throughout history. Our descendants will read about a time when 1 in 2 children born in USA/UK/Australia will spend most of their lives clinically overweight, while globally, 1 in 5 people will live their entire lives in poverty.
No to the first paragraph, and yes to the second.

Warning: Wikipedia spam (read bolded for tl;dr)

"Like many other medical conditions, obesity is the result of an interplay between genetic and environmental factors. Polymorphisms in various genes controlling appetite and metabolism predispose to obesity when sufficient calories are present. As of 2006 more than 41 of these sites have been linked to the development of obesity when a favorable environment is present.[92]

Some of these include the FTO gene polymorphism and the NPC1 gene.[93] Adults who were homozygous for a particular FTO allele weighed about 3 kilograms more and had a 1.6-fold greater rate of obesity than those who had not inherited this trait.[94] This association disappeared, though, when those with FTO polymorphisms participated in moderately intensive physical activity equivalent to 3 to 4 hours of brisk walking.[95] Another study found that 80% of the offspring of two obese parents were obese, in contrast to less than 10% of the offspring of two parents who were of normal weight.[96][9]

The percentage of obesity that can be attributed to genetics varies from 6% to 85% depending on the population examined.[97] The thrifty gene hypothesis postulates that certain ethnic groups may be more prone to obesity in an equivalent environment. Their ability to take advantage of rare periods of abundance by storing energy as fat would be advantageous during times of varying food availability, and individuals with greater adipose reserves would be more likely survive famine. This tendency to store fat, however, would be maladaptive in societies with stable food supplies.[98] This is the presumed reason that Pima Indians, who evolved in a desert ecosystem, developed some of the highest rates of obesity when exposed to a Western lifestyle.[60]

Obesity is also a major feature in a number of rare genetic conditions: Prader-Willi syndrome, Bardet-Biedl syndrome, MOMO syndrome, leptin receptor mutations, congenital leptin deficiency, and melanocortin receptor mutations. In people with early-onset severe obesity (defined by an onset before ten years of age and body mass index over three standard deviations above normal), 7% harbor a single locus mutation."
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
10,077
0
0
My mother has a thyroid condition that causes her metabolism to waver somewhere between "slow" and "gains five pounds if she even looks at an ice cream sundae", yet she's been able to maintain a healthy weight for my entire lifetime. She's 53 years old and doesn't look a day over 40 due almost entirely to the fact that when she found out about the thyroid condition, rather than let herself chunk up and blame it on her thyroid, she instead decided to eat right and exercise and set a good example for her children.

More people need to be like my mom and less people need to be like a certain fattie ex-girlfriend of mine who blamed everyone else for her weight problems but had no problem calling potatoes au gratin a "light midnight snack".
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
SimuLord said:
More people need to be like my mom and less people need to be like a certain fattie ex-girlfriend of mine who blamed everyone else for her weight problems but had no problem calling potatoes au gratin a "light midnight snack".

MmMmMm!...

Carbs-salts-fats-carbs-salts-fats-carbs-salts-fats-DELICIOUS!

Her body's gunna LOVE trying to burn that when she's asleep and inactive.
 

Inverse Skies

New member
Feb 3, 2009
3,630
0
0
[Gavo said:
]Actually, I am considered "Obese" under the BMI scale. However, I'm only slightly chubby, I don't look fat, but no one would mistake me for the "bean sprout" body type. That's probably because I'm really tall. 6'4 and 235 pounds.

I think I have a really slow metabolism. Does anyone know any ways to speed it up?
Actually the preconception about overweight people having a 'slow' or 'worse' metabolism is false. Your metabolism is actually very efficient at converting the energy in food into ATP for use in the body as energy. Therefore more energy produced, more energy excess, more energy stored as fat.

Someone who is lean like myself has a very inefficient metabolism. They produce something known as 'uncoupling proteins' which stop ATP being produced and instead the energy is lost as waste heat, therefore they have less energy available to store as fat and are leaner.

You won't be able to do anything except eat well and exercise I'm sorry, if you want to lose weight.
 

MelziGurl

New member
Jan 16, 2009
1,096
0
0
My sister didn't become obese because of food, she had a thing called Cushing Disease and if you wish to know more about it just look it up. For some it's poor diet and exercise, while for others it's an actual illness or disability. My partners mother is obese due to her adoring son leaving marbles on the stairs so that she could break her ankles. They never healed properly and because of that, walking or standing for long periods can be a painful task. I give her alot of credit though, she does try.

EDIT: And my mother suffers from Thyroid problems.
 

Specter_

New member
Dec 24, 2008
736
0
0
Hunde Des Krieg said:
Well, it isn't so cut and dry. Some people are lazy and become fat, some people are basically fat for life due to slower than normal metabolisms, other people don't know when to stop eating. It is never black and white no matter how it may appear.
This. Basically everyone can fit the current concept of beauty, with the correct diet and working out. But for some it's harder (sometimes a lot) than for others.

I believe the main "problem" is that a lot of people don't recognize that they have a psycholgical problem when it comes to eating, concerning what they eat and how much.

But you have to remember that not so long ago people we'd call obese were almost globally considered beautifull.
 

bjj hero

New member
Feb 4, 2009
3,180
0
0
Weight gain is simple maths. Use less calories than you consume and you will put on weight. Want to lose weight? use more calories than you consume.

There are some people who have a genuine illness or take medication that means they will gain weight but the vast majority of over weight people are over weight through life style choice. They eat the wrong food and do no exercise.

Lunch box apologists annoy me. Its not the same as being racist, sexist or agist. These are factors you have no control over. Being fat, excluding the rare exceptions mentioned earlier, is the individuals choice. It may be a passive choice, not liking the gym or sports, liking cakes and pies, too lazy to cook healthy food, saladphobic/whatever; its still a choice in life style.

Im not rude to fat people in general. You want a shitty quality of life and healt problems? Thats fine, keep watching too much TV and eatting pies. IT pisses me off me taxes pay for their health care to keep them running.

Raising fat kids is another thing. For me its a form of neglect. Youre damaging their future and its shameful.

To those wanting to lose weight, follow my simple guide; Cut out the sugar and fatty foods, eat smaller portions and run 1-3 miles every other day. It will drtop off.
 

ChickDangerous

New member
Feb 8, 2009
103
0
0
It also depends on your definition of obese.
The clinical definition of obesity in Australia is having a BMI over 30. I'm of the belief that it's a little ridiculous to hold everyone up to a single standard without taking into consideration the whole of the person's history. Some of these considerations are ethnicity (for instance Asians are generally built smaller than Caucasians), athleticism (serious athletes tend to have higher BMI's), height (very tall people who are well built are going to have higher BMI's than average sized people), structure (some people actually ARE big boned, although it is used as an excuse too often to be taken seriously by most people), lifestyle and then eating habits. My father for instance, is a personal trainer, state champion cyclist and runs 80km marathons. According to his BMI he's overweight, which is absolute bollocks because he's in fantastic shape.

Other people struggle with their size for a number of reasons, among them laziness, underlying medical issues and genetics. The thing is, you can't just assume that a large person is lazy. It's very rude and inconsiderate to the people who genuinely do struggle.
 

BubbleGumSnareDrum

New member
Dec 24, 2008
643
0
0
Chubsters. I weigh 217 pounds, down from 245 back in December, and I plan to keep going. I was just being fucking lazy.
 

rossatdi

New member
Aug 27, 2008
2,542
0
0
Was 245 lbs, started jogging four times a week and within 4 months I was 185 lbs.

There's no mystery, just eat less & exercise. The number of people with a genuine medical reason is minute. Most fat people (under 40) are just lazy & gluttonous. I know because I was.
 

Jovlo

New member
May 12, 2008
569
0
0
You know, there are more and more obese people in developing countries these days. (1 out of 5 women in some African countries, but I'm not sure, had a lecture on it last week it's a bit foggy.)
This isn't because the people there can afford to eat to much, but because the food they can afford is fatty and unhealthy.
If you go shopping for food these days, you will find that unhealthy, greasy preprocessed food is a lot cheaper then fresh fruits and vegetables.
Because of this, you can find obese people that are still malnourished, all they eat is fat, nothing they actually need.
Poor people get fatter easier because they can't afford decent food, in Africa as well as in the developed world.

On the obesity is in your genes theory:
I've read that there was a Swedish study that showed that when you're obese as a kid and you loose weight, you will have problems staying thin for the rest of your life. They found out that when you're young, new fatty tissue builds up.
These cells stay for the rest of your life, deflating when you loose weight, inflating when you gain some.
People who were thin in their youth don't have all that fatty tissue and it's much harder to make it when you're grown up.
This is why people who never had weight problems as a kid don't get fat as easily as people who did.
Proper parenting is very important. Don't allow your kid to get fat.

Of course there are people who are fat because they just never stop eating, like my dad for instance...
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
For me 95% of fatties have no excuse for their shape.
It's not like they absorb fat from the air. I can starve for days if I choose to, so why can't they just eat less? Don't get me wrong, I know it's hard, but I don't blame my addictions on anything.
 

elmaxx

New member
Oct 2, 2008
80
0
0
chubsters south chapter represent!

heh, yeah been always heavier than "normal", but that doesnt mean it is an illness, you live with it the best you can and good living habits will make the extra weight useful for keeping excelent health.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
 

space_oddity

New member
Oct 24, 2008
514
0
0
Ignignoct said:
space_oddity said:
There is no gene that controls obesity. You cannot be predisposed to being overweight, regardless of metabolic rate or any other biochemical factor.

I believe obesity will be what early 21st century will be remembered for throughout history. Our descendants will read about a time when 1 in 2 children born in USA/UK/Australia will spend most of their lives clinically overweight, while globally, 1 in 5 people will live their entire lives in poverty.
No to the first paragraph, and yes to the second.

Warning: Wikipedia spam (read bolded for tl;dr)

"Like many other medical conditions, obesity is the result of an interplay between genetic and environmental factors. Polymorphisms in various genes controlling appetite and metabolism predispose to obesity when sufficient calories are present. As of 2006 more than 41 of these sites have been linked to the development of obesity when a favorable environment is present.[92]

Some of these include the FTO gene polymorphism and the NPC1 gene.[93] Adults who were homozygous for a particular FTO allele weighed about 3 kilograms more and had a 1.6-fold greater rate of obesity than those who had not inherited this trait.[94] This association disappeared, though, when those with FTO polymorphisms participated in moderately intensive physical activity equivalent to 3 to 4 hours of brisk walking.[95] Another study found that 80% of the offspring of two obese parents were obese, in contrast to less than 10% of the offspring of two parents who were of normal weight.[96][9]

The percentage of obesity that can be attributed to genetics varies from 6% to 85% depending on the population examined.[97] The thrifty gene hypothesis postulates that certain ethnic groups may be more prone to obesity in an equivalent environment. Their ability to take advantage of rare periods of abundance by storing energy as fat would be advantageous during times of varying food availability, and individuals with greater adipose reserves would be more likely survive famine. This tendency to store fat, however, would be maladaptive in societies with stable food supplies.[98] This is the presumed reason that Pima Indians, who evolved in a desert ecosystem, developed some of the highest rates of obesity when exposed to a Western lifestyle.[60]

Obesity is also a major feature in a number of rare genetic conditions: Prader-Willi syndrome, Bardet-Biedl syndrome, MOMO syndrome, leptin receptor mutations, congenital leptin deficiency, and melanocortin receptor mutations. In people with early-onset severe obesity (defined by an onset before ten years of age and body mass index over three standard deviations above normal), 7% harbor a single locus mutation."
I scoff at you for referring to wikipedia,
but tip my hat to you for sourcing your argument.
 

space_oddity

New member
Oct 24, 2008
514
0
0
I think alot of the prejudice (and i use that term loosely) towards overweight people stems from the idea that obesity has come to symbolise alot of what is wrong with society, its wastefulness, decadence and greed.

Its absolutely none of my business what anyone put does to their body, unless it is impacting on someone else's survival, and some would argue that it might in this case.
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
Don't ride the food/heroin comparison any longer.

That horse's back has long since broken.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
bjj hero said:
Lunch box apologists annoy me. Its not the same as being racist, sexist or agist. These are factors you have no control over.
It is the same, however, as being bigoted against someone on the basis of religion. In fact, going by the "factors you have no control over" standard, it's far, far worse--it's a lot easier to change your religion than it is to lose weight.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Railu said:
I'm fairly thin, about 150 lbs. One of the biggest differences I've noticed between me and overweight people is that food doesn't give me pleasure. You ever hear of "comfort food"? Of course, because it's something you eat to feel better. I have no comfort food. Food doesn't make me feel anything but full.

But I do enjoy delicious meals, but I don't seek it out and when I am stressed, I eat less not more.

I can't tell you the name of the program because it was a few years ago on the Discovery Channel, but there is one that talked about this issue. They took a group of chronically overweight people and gave them an MRI while feeding them some of their favorites foods. Those same people had an increase in dopamine in their brain, the same reaction drug addicts get while getting high.

Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you. There is a difference between overeaters and overweight people. The moment you call it an illness though, is the moment you give those sufferers a fallback when they can't do it. "It's not my fault, I'm sick". Please. You need a kick in the ass, not a cuddle.
Oh god, comfort food. I fucking hate eating. I love cooking to death, but eating is such a pain in the ass. The minute they make food pills, I will be the first one in line, even if I have to cannibalize everyone in front of me to get there.
 

Jimmyjames

New member
Jan 4, 2008
725
0
0
apmpnmdslkbk said:
This is not so much meant to be insulting as it is more of an actual honest question.
Why don't you look at your poll again and ask yourself if it truly isn't meant to be insulting. "Chubsters" & "Badonkadonk". Yeah, that's not gonna insult anyone.
 

O maestre

New member
Nov 19, 2008
882
0
0
only in western society could something like fat be considered a disease, i doubt that there are such illness' in the third world

the only valued argument is that metabolism is different for people, but that doesn't quite cut it. being fat is lack of control. also im sick of hearing about how some people have "struggled" to loose weight.
 

Simriel

The Count of Monte Cristo
Dec 22, 2008
2,486
0
0
Large, and proud. Also healthy. Makes no sense, I am in perfect health, dispite being overweight. (note, overweight, not obese). Interesting point by the way. Will smith is obese.
 

EzraPound

New member
Jan 26, 2008
1,763
0
0
This is not so much meant to be insulting as it is more of an actual honest question. Should people honestly recognize that others truly are illed and been looked upon as victims or should we see people as fat lazy ass slobbs who have made their own life choices. I for one am caught right in the middle please to persuade me to one side.
1) Some people are going to be possess the appearance of being overweight (women are especially typecasted) even when they're healthy due to being birthed with large body types.

2) Otherwise, it's surprisingly easy - not neccessarily to stay in shape but to not be fat - by keeping your eating between 1500-2500 calories a day (I go for 1700 or so; it depends on your size) and not eating junk food or drinking too many calorie-laden beverages (Coke, Chocolate Milk, Cranberry Juice, etc). Alot of people have problems because they just eat what they want, but don't do the exercise to sustain their habits.

Also noteworthy is that eating can be addiction, like anything else.
 

TrevorOfCrete

New member
Jun 14, 2008
106
0
0
Like most things you cant lump all people into one catagory. Some people are just lazy and fat, others have genuine disorders etc...
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
True, there are people who gain weights naturally or more easily but mostly the choices they make.
 

Psypherus

New member
Feb 11, 2009
410
0
0
Seeing that I used to weigh 240 pounds and lost 100 of them by simply putting down the fork and going for a walk, I'd have to say that obesity is a life choice. Dont wanna be fat? get off the couch.
 

Don't taze me bro

New member
Feb 26, 2009
340
0
0
Lifestyle definitely plays a part. As an Elementary School teacher, I see the food that the children bring for recess and lunch (chips, chocolate, cookies, etc), but I also see that many parents are unwilling to let their children play outside in the street or nearby park, especially unsupervised, for fear of predators. With a calorie rich diet, and parents happier to let their children play inside, or watch TV where they know they are safe, the possibility for overweight children due to lifestyle choices increases.
 

Seydaman

New member
Nov 21, 2008
2,494
0
0
both, even if genetics determine you won't be obese, being lazy and eating all day you will get fat, but people HAVE to eat, and to stay healthy its 3 meals a day, some people just have a slow metabolism
 

Seydaman

New member
Nov 21, 2008
2,494
0
0
Don said:
Lifestyle definitely plays a part. As an Elementary School teacher, I see the food that the children bring for recess and lunch (chips, chocolate, cookies, etc), but I also see that many parents are unwilling to let their children play outside in the street or nearby park, especially unsupervised, for fear of predators. With a calorie rich diet, and parents happier to let their children play inside, or watch TV where they know they are safe, the possibility for overweight children due to lifestyle choices increases.
really? i never thought about it like that. once again PARENTS FAIL
 
Feb 13, 2008
19,430
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
True. I wonder if it's the shame about being so dumb that gives rise to the desire to treat others with cruelty for no other reason than the fact that they have a different sort of body.
Basic xenophobia. We make ourselves feel better by condemning those that aren't what we say we are. The more priviledged you are, the more likely you are to look down on those without said priviledges. Especially at the media looks down on you for the same reason.

"But you can become one of the priviledged with this special offer. Send no money today!"
 

Superbeast

Bound up the dead triumphantly!
Jan 7, 2009
669
0
0
Hmm, I'm 104kg/229lb roughly 6' and nearly 20; and at the moment I've a hell of a beer-gut (I became an alcoholic about a year and a half ago, now sorted that but it's darn difficult to shift the damage done).

I don't eat too healthily - my work at a convenience store means I leave home at about midday and don't get back until 10pm, so I'm eating right before I go to bed most times. I also don't get enough sleep (about 5 hours, not 8).

These are two major factors that contribute to my (and many other peoples' in this modern world) problems with being overweight.

However, I am not obese (just overweight with a beer gut) - the rest of me isn't fat, I try to go running a couple of times a week (when I manage to catch up on some sleep I'm going to make it a 5-times-a-week thing) and do regular weights (well, not regular enough because I'm too tired, but again improving it to 5x a week). Having toned muscles boosts your metabolism, helping you to loose weight without adjusting what you are eating too drastically (a little maths to ensure you aren't overloading on saturated fats or calories). I usually go for a 6-12 mile walk once or twice a week (I refuse to pay over £5 to get a bus for 6/7 miles), and my legs, shoulders and arms are solid muscle (played a lot of rugby in my youth).

I used a metabolic rate calculator, and based on my height it calculated that my body is using nearly 4000 calories a day to keep running. Since I only eat 2-3000 calories (my big issue is that with no time to eat I settle for very energy-rich foods like chocolate) - so I'm technically eating less than I'm theoretically burning. But I'm still not loosing any weight whatsoever (because of the times I eat).

Obesity itself can be a disease, as sources by previous posters. However, in a fair majority of cases it isn't, and is caused by lifestyle factors - either through shovelling food into your face, by eating at inappropriate times and not getting enough sleep. A side-effect of stress can be weight-gain too (notice these last 3 are all very difficult to avoid in the current working climate?).

I know full well in my case it's a problem with eating the wrong stuff, at the wrong times, not as much exercise as I'd like and so on. I know that I can't really adjust the times, and I like what I eat (since it's very sugar and fat-rich it has a very positive mood effect), so I'm trying to ramp up the exercise to try to shift the beer-gut. I'm not exactly lazy (I need to spend more time in bed lol), but certainly should be more active to improve my heart/lungs as well.
 

Lord George

New member
Aug 25, 2008
2,735
0
0
There fat because there lazy there's no other excuse, if it was genetic then surely you'd have poor children in third world countries who could gain fat easily. but no it always seem to be that the richer someone is the higher chance of them being a fat slob. I'm a bit underweight apparently and while it could be genetic I blame it on forgetting to eat and regular exercise and sports.
 

xxnightlawxx

New member
Nov 6, 2008
595
0
0
only one way that is not just oh they are just fat is if they actually cannot physically excercise but that is the only way
 

xxnightlawxx

New member
Nov 6, 2008
595
0
0
Don said:
Lifestyle definitely plays a part. As an Elementary School teacher, I see the food that the children bring for recess and lunch (chips, chocolate, cookies, etc), but I also see that many parents are unwilling to let their children play outside in the street or nearby park, especially unsupervised, for fear of predators. With a calorie rich diet, and parents happier to let their children play inside, or watch TV where they know they are safe, the possibility for overweight children due to lifestyle choices increases.
omg thanl you i miss back when i was i kid that it was possible to just go outside and play with friends not having to worry much about many things you know i mean cmon
 
May 17, 2007
879
0
0
OP:

1) Use spellcheck. It's not as good as knowing how to write for yourself, but it beats what you're doing there.

2) Those poll options aren't mutually exclusive. In fact they don't even go together well. For the record: Illness, Genetics and Life Choices.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
The fact the 6.8% of the people say 'I luvs Badonkadonk' means that 6.8% of the world's population must be removed. Painfully.

Genetics are a very small factor, you can still retain a respectable state even if your genes have really screwed you over. It requires a little extra work for some, which sucks, but it's just something some people have to deal with.
 

PureChaos

New member
Aug 16, 2008
4,990
0
0
most likely it's all down to what you eat. i knew some parents that were overweight and had 3 kids but the eldest and youngest were slim, the middle was big but not nearly as big as the parents so genetics may not be factor. their diet wasn't great but if they ate the same thing all the time, wouldn't they all be overweight? unless it was just that the eldest and youngest did more exercise.
 

SenseOfTumour

New member
Jul 11, 2008
4,514
0
0
This subject came up before, and while I'm overweight, hell, fat, I'd like to reiterate what someone else said...

If someone is fat, does that give anyone the right to abuse them and make them feel worse, someone else liking cake does not give you the right to be an evil nasty fucker. This isn't about equal rights or equating weight to any minority, its a simple case of give everyone respect until they prove they don't deserve it.

In my opinion 'going large' does not mean people are allowed to hurl abuse.

On another point tho, having watched Supersize me, 'eating huge amounts of far and sugar laden food every day makes you put on weight - shock news', however, as a Brit I was surprised by the sheer SIZE of the portions, I mean, a 4 pint soda? Who needs more than a pint with a meal, unless of course the meal is hugely oversized too.

May I refer people to http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/ , I love junk food, but just about every picture makes me feel almost nauseous. There's really people out there choosing to eat this stuff?

Then again, look the competitive eating champions, it seems the majority of the people who can REALLY eat seem to be average to small, last champion I saw was some 90lb asian girl, who beat out a whole wall of 400lb trucker types.
 

AndyFromMonday

New member
Feb 5, 2009
3,921
0
0
If your a kid and your fat there's a 90% chance you won't be fat when your about 18 or so. I was fat when I was a kid mainly 'cause my dad's side of family was "fat". I'm thin now tho.
I'd 50% of the people that are fat are 'cause of genetics. The other 50% simply just ate to much and didn't do sports and got fat.
 

gh0ti

New member
Apr 10, 2008
251
0
0
Straight off: This reply isn't aimed at people happy with their weight, but I'm getting sick of people I know complaining they can't lose weight and how unfair it is, whilst they deceive themselves into believing they are doing everything they can to achieve it.

There is no excuse for there being so many people in the clinically obese category. No matter your genetic disposition (barring documented medical condition) you don't get to that kind of weight without overeating and underexercising. I don't mean to belittle the mental aspect, as I understand that a psychological condition can be every bit as debilitating as a physical one, but I firmly believe that the vast majority of people could lose weight if they wanted to. Not everyone is thin, I sure as hell aren't, but very few people are necessarily huge.

Eat three meals of the size suggested on packaging each day, get down the gym three times a week and for the love of god, don't eat just because you're hungry.
 

RetiarySword

New member
Apr 27, 2008
1,377
0
0
Its not an illness. If they put on weight when on a controlled diet and excersize, its an illness because they have no control dispite taking active measures. If they don't do anything about it and put no effort in, they need to move their fat arse and do somethign about it.
 

SenseOfTumour

New member
Jul 11, 2008
4,514
0
0
I think do eat just because your hungry, the main problem is people eating when they're not, but instead when they're bored, or watching a movie, or they're halfway thru a meal and not hungry but carry on anyways.

Along with, as I said before the common thing nowadays of many people doing so little physical activity
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
I've still got about a stone of fat, i think... but i've dropped 2 stone in the last year and kept it off.

It's for many, a lifestyle choice, laziness is after all one of them. But then, a girl i know from work has diabetes and finds it very hard to control weight and blood sugar at the same time, regular eating and needing to eat to sort out low blood sugar makes it hard to alter diet etc.
 

ForrestDixon

New member
Jan 9, 2009
167
0
0
I think think that it can be defined either way. If you are looking at why they are like that you cannot blame one clear thing. Like if you had someone who's mom ate fast food every night (or almost every night) they are probably going to grow up bigger than most children. But if you look at a child's parents who are both personal trainers they are probably going to be more thin as well. I think that it can be an illness (there are some people who's brain cannot tall them they are full)but there are some people who may eat more than others or to much. There are many reasons but you cannot blame one clear reason for every person.



I have lost over 40 pounds 6 inches from my waist and can do six chin ups as well as pex pops. Its up to that person to get active and be willing to work to lose weight. Its up to you.
 

Naal

New member
Feb 24, 2009
92
0
0
I put down lifestyle choice.

Obese and fat people use the excuse it's all in their genetics. Well, some people (Like I) are built with a bigger bone structure, so in a way it is genetics... BUT! There is such thing as beating the system. Instead of using the excuse of bone structure, work out and eat right. So many people complain about their weight while they're grabbing a fistful of M&Ms and sitting in front of their computers.

The world doesn't expect all people to be stick thin, and not everyone is blessed with an amazing metabolism, so that's why we have to work harder.

Snack foods and lazy days are fine in moderation, but some people need to realize that too much of a good thing is bad.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Fat people disgust me. I think it's an appalling way to treat your own body & they're effectively spitting in the face of anyone who is truly disabled.
 

Milkatron

New member
Jul 18, 2008
262
0
0
It's a combination. If you have a slower metabolism, you have to be more careful if you want to stay away from obesity. I have a high metabolism right now, so I can afford to be a little lackadaisical from time to time. But later on, I may to watch myself a little more.

Some people are just damn lazy, some have awful luck in genetics. That's the simplest way to put it.
 

Abedeus

New member
Sep 14, 2008
7,412
0
0
Where is the "I had to take anti-allergic shots and drugs that heavily slowed down my methabolism and made it had to lose weight" option?

Also, it can be genetic. My grandmother has been obese and died of heart attack, same goes for one of my grandfathers, my mother has a weight problem (not to big, she's quite slim everywhere except for the stomach) and my dad's barely thinner than me, but he's also a bit shorter.

I'm currently working out at the gym, trying to lose those kilograms. Oh, by the way - asthma also is a major reason many people are fat. It's not easy to run and play sports when you can't breathe after 1/3 of the normal person's time.
 

[Gavo]

New member
Jun 29, 2008
1,675
0
0
Inverse Skies said:
[Gavo said:
]Actually, I am considered "Obese" under the BMI scale. However, I'm only slightly chubby, I don't look fat, but no one would mistake me for the "bean sprout" body type. That's probably because I'm really tall. 6'4 and 235 pounds.

I think I have a really slow metabolism. Does anyone know any ways to speed it up?
Actually the preconception about overweight people having a 'slow' or 'worse' metabolism is false. Your metabolism is actually very efficient at converting the energy in food into ATP for use in the body as energy. Therefore more energy produced, more energy excess, more energy stored as fat.

Someone who is lean like myself has a very inefficient metabolism. They produce something known as 'uncoupling proteins' which stop ATP being produced and instead the energy is lost as waste heat, therefore they have less energy available to store as fat and are leaner.

You won't be able to do anything except eat well and exercise I'm sorry, if you want to lose weight.
Ah well, I'll just keep doing what I've been doing. Exercising and not eating shit.

On a separate note, how do you know so much about medical stuff? Are you in med school? I remember I did a thread about cancer research...
Inverse Skies said:
[Gavo said:
]What's the name of a job in which you research a cure for cancer? What's the pay like? Where can I find these jobs?

I'm very interested in this field, please contribute if you know.
You'll have to go to university I'm afraid, do a degree such as science or biomedical science for three years, then do honours (one of the professors at the uni will be doing research on cancer almost guaranteed). After honours you can do your PHD, and after you're a Dr you can continue to research cancer for a university or branch out a private company research team.

All up it's probably going to take you 6-7 years of study at uni to truly incorporate yourself into the field, so good luck.
Inverse Skies said:
Marbas said:
[Gavo said:
]What's the name of a job in which you research a cure for cancer? What's the pay like? Where can I find these jobs?

I'm very interested in this field, please contribute if you know.
The field is called Oncology specifically, it's a specialization you go into after med school.
Actually an oncologist does not research cancer, but diagnoses cases within hospitals and develops treatment regimens depending on what type of cancer it is and how far it has advanced. Univeristy staff and specialist centres are the ones who do the majority of cancer research.
You're pretty smart.
 

AndresCL

New member
Feb 2, 2009
84
0
0
Last year my aunt from Australia came to my country (I live in Latin America, wich in fact should be called Iberoamerica. I also hate when pepole call North America or America to USA, they are JUST A COUNTRY, not the ENTIRE continent, but thats another story). She is a very interesting woman with lot of stories to tell, so one day she started talking about fat issues of her country. She mentioned that pepole in general here looked way more thin than over there, but explained that because of the concern of the parents about it. Most of them are working and cannot cook for their childrens, so they have no choice but to eat junk food. So that is something that i love about my mother, she quit her job when she had her first daughter (my sister) so she could take care of us.

So i think it has multiple factors, concern of the fathers, genetics (because my mother had to quit sugar rich products and take some medicine) and enviorment (Mcdonalds and all that crap, wich im also proud about my fathers teaching me that junk food is bad and cooking healthy, fruit and salad rich, fish, etc are good.

So there we have another Dilema, Work v/s Family, but i guess that one is for another disscussion (hopefully not created by the same creater of this, i mind, chubby? what were you thinking)
 

Echolocating

New member
Jul 13, 2006
617
0
0
I'd wager that that about 95% of obese people could lose the weight if they just made it a priority. I worked out for a year a while back and was down to a mean 220lbs; I'm talking about a killer workout with sweat falling by the bucket loads, where them skinny shits couldn't even keep up with me. Now I've "worked" my way back up to 270lbs (at 6'2") again. ;-)

The working out part is great and all, but I've only found success when the workouts have been very tough. Like, break your will tough. Personally, I hated the process, but loved the results. I've tried working out at paces where I would sweat a good amount, but not strain too much and the results were negligible. Seriously, I don't care what you eat or how much, if you truly worked out like a maniac (for over an hour everyday), you'd drop the pounds. Trust me.

There's no way fatty genetics can withstand the awesome force of mind-numbing, intense workouts.
 

Archaon6044

New member
Oct 21, 2008
645
0
0
anyone from the UK see that "Why are Thin People not Fat?" show on the BBC?

summed up, they got a load of thin people, and made them eat 10 times the number of calories per day that they ate currently, and measured them every week.

they vertainly gained weight, but they didn't become fat
the conclusions they drew basicly said that fat people are pre-disposed to being fat, because back ye olde hunter/gatherer times, fat people were more likely to survive the lean times, but humanity hasn't managed to shake that off, despite us now living in a society were food is available at all times
 

Spudgun Man

New member
Oct 29, 2008
709
0
0
I'd say that there are the rare cases of one or two people who have an 'Illness' and the rest of the people who claim the illness use it as an excuse to eat more cake.
 

Lullabye

New member
Oct 23, 2008
4,426
0
0
Its genetic to a point.
Your body has a set weight point and you will naturally gain or lose weight until you hit that point.
But, you can still go over or under your point. I guaruntee you that if you weigh 300 pounds+ it's not genetics.
It could be an eating disorder, but thats more psychological than phsyiological.
Got it?
 

JDviewer

New member
Mar 3, 2009
133
0
0
When I was 18 I spent most of my time studying to get the grades to get into university. I didn't do any exercise at the time, and with three square meals a day and snacks I ended up becoming obese.

It was only when in university did I think about my own health and changed my diet and began exercising properly. Two years later and I've lost over two stone, and am hoping to lose at least another stone. Changing my lifestyle allowed me to become alot thinner and healthier.

I do believe that some people are more likely to become obese than others but also that their lifestyle is a major factor. People can bring it onto themselves with no-one else to blame but themselves.
 

Grimm91

New member
Jan 8, 2009
1,040
0
0
Most people admit that they are fat. People in denial say that they have a disease.
 

thiosk

New member
Sep 18, 2008
5,410
0
0
I prefer to be skinny. While all of modern medicine tries to convince us that fat people should be dying of heart attacks and related illnesses, fatties tend to have survival rates higher than skinny people. Thats why its called the obesity paradox; it should make you unhealthy, but it doesn't really seem to make you any unhealthier than anyone else.

Maybe its the higher levels of nutrition?

who knows

live and let live, I say.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
it is def genetics and their own fault.
some people inherited the "large" gene
some people eat when they are bored or sad or lonely etc.
and some fat people are lazy and dont exercise or move. just walking to your classes is good for you. in the morning eat scrambled eggs inside of french toast. youd be surprised on the difference in calories.
 

Inverse Skies

New member
Feb 3, 2009
3,630
0
0
[Gavo said:
]

Ah well, I'll just keep doing what I've been doing. Exercising and not eating shit.

On a separate note, how do you know so much about medical stuff? Are you in med school? I remember I did a thread about cancer research...
I do study medicine at uni, hence why any topics which make me call on said knowledge usually attract my attention and make me spurt forth what I know (usually in the form of lengthy posts).

I remember talking to a professor at uni who explained the pathways required to get into cancer research. He himself was studying trying to disrupt cancer cell communication by designing strands of RNA to lock onto their cell surface receptors which would be delivered by a micro-lipid solution. He liked it better than using proteins, because RNA strands are less bulky and easier to develop/deliver.

Myself I want to specialise in oncology... but they only take in 3-4 applicants a year into any speciality in this state, plus I'll actually have to be out and about in the workforce for a while before that happens... and I still have five years of uni left.

But yeah, sorry mate. Exercise is really the only way to go. I guy I play basketball with lost 30 kilos by exercising at the gym and eating... better (I remember him putting away 12 sausages and 3 hamburgers one night, that kid can eat) but he still keeps the weight down. Mind you he does a lot of exercise, but realistically its the only thing you can do.
 

Railu

New member
Aug 7, 2008
173
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
lol, I love how you keep taking everything out of context. Are we talking about heroin now? I thought we were talking about overeating.

It reminds me of a layman's analogy I tried to make about how RAM improves the performance of a computer. I described it as how if you're moving out of your house, if you have one person to move the data and they can only carry a single box, it will take many trips. But if you have more, you don't need to make as many to get everything out of your house. Then he interrupted me and said 'but if you have too many people they will start bumping into each other and nothing will get done!' I wanted to say to him 'Then you better not get too much or your data will start bumping into each other!'

Later I learned that people responded better to the 4-lane versus 2-lane highway, but even some people got mad because apparently that's bad for the environment. You just can't fix stupid.

My point is, there is no reason in debating the analogy, you debate the topic at hand.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
lol, I love how you keep taking everything out of context. Are we talking about heroin now? I thought we were talking about overeating.

It reminds me of a layman's analogy I tried to make about how RAM improves the performance of a computer. I described it as how if you're moving out of your house, if you have one person to move the data and they can only carry a single box, it will take many trips. But if you have more, you don't need to make as many to get everything out of your house. Then he interrupted me and said 'but if you have too many people they will start bumping into each other and nothing will get done!' I wanted to say to him 'Then you better not get too much or your data will start bumping into each other!'

Later I learned that people responded better to the 4-lane versus 2-lane highway, but even some people got mad because apparently that's bad for the environment. You just can't fix stupid.

My point is, there is no reason in debating the analogy, you debate the topic at hand.
Either way your point is invalid. Starving yourself causes a sort of muscular dystrophy. You can't cut to "bare minimums" because then your body will freak out, hold all it's fat for as long as possible, and burn up your muscle first.
Hell, you'll die of starvation before you even begin burning fat.
Learn what you're talking about.
 

theultimateend

New member
Nov 1, 2007
3,621
0
0
Largely it is because of the calorie intake of a migrating mammal and the lifestyle of a sedentary mammal.

These two do not mix safely.
 

Noamuth

New member
May 16, 2008
1,137
0
0
Most of the 'obesity crisis' we hear about is mostly just poor eating choices and laziness, I think.

I do feel sorry for the genuinely ill though, or the people who have to take medication that interferes with their metabolism.

And I get annoyed with people who think that just because someone is fat, they must be unhealthy. Some people are just big. They can be perfectly fit and healthy, but a bigger size because of their genes, or because of a medication they're taking, etc.
 

Railu

New member
Aug 7, 2008
173
0
0
TheNecroswanson said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
lol, I love how you keep taking everything out of context. Are we talking about heroin now? I thought we were talking about overeating.

It reminds me of a layman's analogy I tried to make about how RAM improves the performance of a computer. I described it as how if you're moving out of your house, if you have one person to move the data and they can only carry a single box, it will take many trips. But if you have more, you don't need to make as many to get everything out of your house. Then he interrupted me and said 'but if you have too many people they will start bumping into each other and nothing will get done!' I wanted to say to him 'Then you better not get too much or your data will start bumping into each other!'

Later I learned that people responded better to the 4-lane versus 2-lane highway, but even some people got mad because apparently that's bad for the environment. You just can't fix stupid.

My point is, there is no reason in debating the analogy, you debate the topic at hand.
Either way your point is invalid. Starving yourself causes a sort of muscular dystrophy. You can't cut to "bare minimums" because then your body will freak out, hold all it's fat for as long as possible, and burn up your muscle first.
Hell, you'll die of starvation before you even begin burning fat.
Learn what you're talking about.
Hahaha, you guys are hilarious. My point is invalid, huh?

You don't even know what my point is and you want to debate that mine is invalid? First this guy starts going off about my comment about heroin addicts, now you're talking about starving yourself? Wow, just wow. Who said starve yourself? Just you.

So apparently your only options are consume too many calories or nothing? Wow, you'd make a terrible consultant. I'm trying to advocate self-control and you're trying to advocate... I don't know what the hell you are advocating.

For someone who is trying to come off as a smart-ass, you're sure achieving the opposite.

Edit: Btw, no one has even asked my what the bare minimum is. You just assumed it meant eating less than is advisable. Your first mistake is you thought I had no idea what I'm talking about clearly because you are trying to argue points that are succinct.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
JDviewer said:
When I was 18 I spent most of my time studying to get the grades to get into university. I didn't do any exercise at the time, and with three square meals a day and snacks I ended up becoming obese.

It was only when in university did I think about my own health and changed my diet and began exercising properly. Two years later and I've lost over two stone, and am hoping to lose at least another stone. Changing my lifestyle allowed me to become alot thinner and healthier.

I do believe that some people are more likely to become obese than others but also that their lifestyle is a major factor. People can bring it onto themselves with no-one else to blame but themselves.
What is a stone?

Oh and congrats on the weight loss.
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
apmpnmdslkbk said:
JDviewer said:
When I was 18 I spent most of my time studying to get the grades to get into university. I didn't do any exercise at the time, and with three square meals a day and snacks I ended up becoming obese.

It was only when in university did I think about my own health and changed my diet and began exercising properly. Two years later and I've lost over two stone, and am hoping to lose at least another stone. Changing my lifestyle allowed me to become alot thinner and healthier.

I do believe that some people are more likely to become obese than others but also that their lifestyle is a major factor. People can bring it onto themselves with no-one else to blame but themselves.
What is a stone?

Oh and congrats on the weight loss.
Develops in the kidneys due to dehydration or high soda intake.
 

SmartIdiot

New member
Feb 10, 2009
1,715
0
0
You are what you eat. Simple. If you have no self control and you're obese I have no sympathy. Get a fucking grip. Food is NOT an addiction. You do not get pain, hallucinogenically disruptive dreams, fear, anxiety or a genuine feeling of wanting to be left alone. It's called self control. I apologise to any obese people I'm offending but it's a curse of modern living. Put down the fucking fork. You can do it, you're just too lazy. Get up. Walk to work. Walk home. I do. I'm jealous I have a stick insect body. Lend some of your fat.

All jokes aside. I'm tired of people bitching. If you're overweight. STOP COMPLAINING!!

Instead, do something about it!!

I absolutely cannot STAND people who complain!

I will say it once and once only
Just stop complaining
Stop complaining
Stop complaining

We're not trying
we're not trying
we're not trying
to impress you.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Fat people are fat because they don't bother to maintain a healthy lifestyle including proper diet and exercise.

Just because Joe Downthestreet doesn't have to eat a salad and run 5 miles a day to stay thin doesn't mean you can get away with it. Fat people who desire to be thin should just recognize what they need to change in their life.
Myself for an example have quite the opposite problem, I have to eat about 4000 calories a day (twice the recommended amount) to maintain my weight and I don't even DO anything physical.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Ignignoct said:
apmpnmdslkbk said:
JDviewer said:
When I was 18 I spent most of my time studying to get the grades to get into university. I didn't do any exercise at the time, and with three square meals a day and snacks I ended up becoming obese.

It was only when in university did I think about my own health and changed my diet and began exercising properly. Two years later and I've lost over two stone, and am hoping to lose at least another stone. Changing my lifestyle allowed me to become alot thinner and healthier.

I do believe that some people are more likely to become obese than others but also that their lifestyle is a major factor. People can bring it onto themselves with no-one else to blame but themselves.
What is a stone?

Oh and congrats on the weight loss.
Develops in the kidneys due to dehydration or high soda intake.
*facepalm* Stone is also a unit of measurement, you dunce.
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
DraconianKing said:
Ignignoct said:
apmpnmdslkbk said:
JDviewer said:
When I was 18 I spent most of my time studying to get the grades to get into university. I didn't do any exercise at the time, and with three square meals a day and snacks I ended up becoming obese.

It was only when in university did I think about my own health and changed my diet and began exercising properly. Two years later and I've lost over two stone, and am hoping to lose at least another stone. Changing my lifestyle allowed me to become alot thinner and healthier.

I do believe that some people are more likely to become obese than others but also that their lifestyle is a major factor. People can bring it onto themselves with no-one else to blame but themselves.
What is a stone?

Oh and congrats on the weight loss.
Develops in the kidneys due to dehydration or high soda intake.
*facepalm* Stone is also a unit of measurement, you dunce.
Don't fall for the obvious ones, you dunce.
 

jimduckie

New member
Mar 4, 2009
1,218
0
0
some of it is genetics but most of it is due to technology ie computers ,cars the tv remote and lack of physical activity and the biggest is poor eating habits and lets not forrget kids need a boot in the ass ,they are so lazy
 

DeleteMe1112311

New member
Sep 18, 2008
394
0
0
Being at least somewhat fat (polite people would say average, honest assholes like myself would say fat), I can say that it is not an illness. Obviously, with certain illnesses it is harder to maintain a more fit body but the obesity itself is not an illness. Genetics certainly plays a part in it as well but not a large part.

I think that covers everything...
 

Booze Zombie

New member
Dec 8, 2007
7,416
0
0
Fatness happens to people for a varying number of reasons, but from personal experience, I know a few ways.

The first one, is my father. He has epilepsy, can't eat any meat at all (it gives him fits) and yet he weighs 22 stone. Why? The chemicals they've got him hooked on make him fat. He is a victim of the pill poppin' doctor culture and now he has to put up with it, insults and all.

For me, I'm Autistic, I don't like socialising, so I don't go out much... not much to do inside a house but eat, drink, sleep and play games. I'm trying to change that, though...

It's easy to mock people for being fat, presume you know why they're fat and tell them to work out, eat healthy and stop being lazy... but you're hardly going to win "motivational speaker of the year" for talking like that when that's not even the anwser to someone's problem.

See, there's this thing... cause and effect. We as a society, have this fixation with effect, we never look at something's cause.
Let me put it like this: If a pipe bursts in your house, you just put buckets on the floor and leave the pipe alone?
 

Nintendostar

New member
Mar 5, 2009
3
0
0
EmileeElectro said:
I think it was something to do with your mind.
Then, when we learn Telekinesis, we will be able to control our weight at will! Sweet!

It depends, some people have something in their genetics that just makes them obese, and they can't help it. Others, like my tub-o-lard friend, known as Kaleb, can work it off, in fact, his entire family is extremely fit, however, he is not. He just chooses to be lazy and not work it off.

Me myself, I am one of those people who can eat, say, 3 cows, and only gain a pound. It's fucking great, that's why I love to eat, because I don't gain a pound. EVER. I am also one of those people who is always hungry, all of the time. Even though I like to eat, it bugs me, really badly, because I never have a full stomach until those rare occasions. *Cry face*
 

Finnboghi

New member
Oct 23, 2008
338
0
0
I like big butts and I cannot lie, and you other brothers can't deny, that when a girl walks in with a great big waist and a round thing in your face, you get sprung!
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
Booze Zombie said:
Nintendostar said:
I would suggest you eat vegetarian food, it sounds like meat just doesn't satisfy you enough.
Curry, perhaps?
I would strangle small animals en masse for a big plate of japanese-style chicken curry.

Slices of chicken slathered with curry on top of an equal portion of rice.

Oh-ho-ho...

Oish-katta! Mo ichi onegai yo!

*flips 500 yen coin at the mama-san*
 

aussiesniper

New member
Mar 20, 2008
424
0
0
Railu said:
TheNecroswanson said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
lol, I love how you keep taking everything out of context. Are we talking about heroin now? I thought we were talking about overeating.

It reminds me of a layman's analogy I tried to make about how RAM improves the performance of a computer. I described it as how if you're moving out of your house, if you have one person to move the data and they can only carry a single box, it will take many trips. But if you have more, you don't need to make as many to get everything out of your house. Then he interrupted me and said 'but if you have too many people they will start bumping into each other and nothing will get done!' I wanted to say to him 'Then you better not get too much or your data will start bumping into each other!'

Later I learned that people responded better to the 4-lane versus 2-lane highway, but even some people got mad because apparently that's bad for the environment. You just can't fix stupid.

My point is, there is no reason in debating the analogy, you debate the topic at hand.
Either way your point is invalid. Starving yourself causes a sort of muscular dystrophy. You can't cut to "bare minimums" because then your body will freak out, hold all it's fat for as long as possible, and burn up your muscle first.
Hell, you'll die of starvation before you even begin burning fat.
Learn what you're talking about.
Hahaha, you guys are hilarious. My point is invalid, huh?

You don't even know what my point is and you want to debate that mine is invalid? First this guy starts going off about my comment about heroin addicts, now you're talking about starving yourself? Wow, just wow. Who said starve yourself? Just you.

So apparently your only options are consume too many calories or nothing? Wow, you'd make a terrible consultant. I'm trying to advocate self-control and you're trying to advocate... I don't know what the hell you are advocating.

For someone who is trying to come off as a smart-ass, you're sure achieving the opposite.

Edit: Btw, no one has even asked my what the bare minimum is. You just assumed it meant eating less than is advisable. Your first mistake is you thought I had no idea what I'm talking about clearly because you are trying to argue points that are succinct.
I'd like to remind you about what you said a few posts earlier.

You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
Could this be why people think that your "Bare minimum" is starvation?

Seriously, did you not think about that?
 
May 27, 2008
321
0
0
Now all of your weight problems arise from measuring in pounds (i.e. the gay system) rather than the metric system (AKA the super one that all the hot girls wanna do)
 

Bourne Endeavor

New member
May 14, 2008
1,082
0
0
Railu said:
I'm fairly thin, about 150 lbs. One of the biggest differences I've noticed between me and overweight people is that food doesn't give me pleasure. You ever hear of "comfort food"? Of course, because it's something you eat to feel better. I have no comfort food. Food doesn't make me feel anything but full.

But I do enjoy delicious meals, but I don't seek it out and when I am stressed, I eat less not more.
Interesting you should mention this, for after I began my diet, losing a significant amount of weight I noticed that a vast quantity of food I once adored not only did not appeal to me however in many cases I came to dislike it entirely. I, for example cannot eat hot dogs whatsoever without feeling ill, bacon is unappealing and any form of candy/sweet must be limited other ill feeling once more.

Nonetheless whilst I concede there are exceptions, it is most certainly laziness that is the cause of obesity; with the notion of an illness nothing more then a deluded excuse to escape blaming oneself for their own misdeed. If I can decide to cease fast food, most junk and create my own diet to drop over a hundred pounds in less then a year, then most certainly it is possible for anyone else, unless of course I am simply that fantastic my method cannot be mimicked.

Coincidently I managed to lose too much for my given height and now classify quite low, a nice contrast after being overweight for some time.
 

TrevorOfCrete

New member
Jun 14, 2008
106
0
0
george144 said:
There fat because there lazy there's no other excuse, if it was genetic then surely you'd have poor children in third world countries who could gain fat easily. but no it always seem to be that the richer someone is the higher chance of them being a fat slob. I'm a bit underweight apparently and while it could be genetic I blame it on forgetting to eat and regular exercise and sports.
What about depression, mental illness, bulimia nerosa, alcoholism, GAD and even just plain old fashioned stress.

Why is it that anorexia is not seen in the same light? that is seen as a genuine illness. That is also a eating disorder, why should over-indulging been seen in any other way to under-indulging. They can both be a result of lifestyle and both come hand in hand with increased health risks.
 

Sion_Barzahd

New member
Jul 2, 2008
1,384
0
0
I'd have to say a large section of it is just laziness and the crap that we eat.
Sure it also boils down to genetics and metabolism. I mean some people just gain weight easier than others.
Also the fact that there isn't just one type of people, if my science class taught me well enough to remember it, there is three. (correct me if i'm wrong.)

What annoys me is the fact that junk food is cheaper to buy than healthier foods in most general stores.
 

Lord George

New member
Aug 25, 2008
2,735
0
0
TrevorOfCrete said:
george144 said:
There fat because there lazy there's no other excuse, if it was genetic then surely you'd have poor children in third world countries who could gain fat easily. but no it always seem to be that the richer someone is the higher chance of them being a fat slob. I'm a bit underweight apparently and while it could be genetic I blame it on forgetting to eat and regular exercise and sports.
What about depression, mental illness, bulimia nerosa, alcoholism, GAD and even just plain old fashioned stress.

Why is it that anorexia is not seen in the same light? that is seen as a genuine illness. That is also a eating disorder, why should over-indulging been seen in any other way to under-indulging. They can both be a result of lifestyle and both come hand in hand with increased health risks.
Yes some of those problems do have an effect on obesity but they are the minority, the majority of fat people are just fat because they eat a lot and don't do enough exercise.

Also anorexia is an illness that people cannot avoid as they are affected by the media and peers. But overweight people have not been pressured into overeating, in fact society tells us its bad to be overweight but people still get fat because there greedy. If we say its an illness its just giving fat people a crutch to fall back as they can whine that there ill and need help when all they really need to do is put down the fork. But that's just my opinion.
 

JDviewer

New member
Mar 3, 2009
133
0
0
apmpnmdslkbk said:
JDviewer said:
When I was 18 I spent most of my time studying to get the grades to get into university. I didn't do any exercise at the time, and with three square meals a day and snacks I ended up becoming obese.

It was only when in university did I think about my own health and changed my diet and began exercising properly. Two years later and I've lost over two stone, and am hoping to lose at least another stone. Changing my lifestyle allowed me to become alot thinner and healthier.

I do believe that some people are more likely to become obese than others but also that their lifestyle is a major factor. People can bring it onto themselves with no-one else to blame but themselves.
What is a stone?

Oh and congrats on the weight loss.
A stone is a measurement of weight. 1 stone is about 6.35 kilograms.
 

MortisLegio

New member
Nov 5, 2008
1,258
0
0
its mainly because people eat too much but there are few who do have an illness.

(liking Donuts is not an illness)
 

Vanilla Gorilla

New member
Jan 15, 2009
128
0
0
I used to be a chubster (16 stone, 6ft 1in) but dropped 5 stone about 5 years ago through exercise and diet, since then I seem to be able to eat pretty much anything and not have my weight fluctuate too much (probably because of overall lifestyle changes). Genetics and metabolism may play a part but at the end of the day 99.9% of fat people are that way because they eat crap, they eat too much and they dont get enough exercise. Saying its a disease is counter productive, if people are happy to be fat then much respect to them, thats a valid life choice, dont turn around though and say "its not my fault" because it probably is.
 

brtshstel

New member
Dec 16, 2008
1,366
0
0
Some people are predisposed to obesity. Others have an real illness that makes the mthat way. Then there are people who just eat too much and are lazy.
 

Frank_Sinatra_

Digs Giant Robots
Dec 30, 2008
2,306
0
0
It's laziness unless proven otherwise by their doctor, however I do agree with Necro I exercise very rarely and eat a lot but I haven't gained or lost a pound for ages. So it could be genitics, who knows?
I weigh about 180 and I'm 5'11"ish.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Railu said:
Drug addicts turn to drugs to ease their pain, overweight people turn to food. Heroin addicts can quit and so can you.
If you quit food, you will die.

Why is it that the people who complain about fat people seem to always be so cruel and dumb?
You can live for 3 weeks without food. Some people can fast for longer than that.

Cut back to the bare minimum, wow, what a concept.
There's a "bare minimum" of heroin? You know a lot of people who were heroin addicts that have been able to reduce their use to a "bare minimum"?
lol, I love how you keep taking everything out of context. Are we talking about heroin now? I thought we were talking about overeating.

...

My point is, there is no reason in debating the analogy, you debate the topic at hand.
So why bring up the analogy? Of *course* you debate the analogy, because as far as the topic at hand, the fact that you'd make the analogy indicates you consider people who stay fat the same as people who stay addicted to heroin in terms of their willpower, moral worth, etc.

That's why we're debating the analogy--because people have the same attitude towards those who can't quit an illegal, expensive substance that they have to hide their use of to those who can't *moderate* their use of a legal, cheap substance that we have festivals for and that people use as the centerpiece of everything from the Thanksgiving holiday to the wedding banquet.

Which shows how little you understand the issue of overeating--it's nothing like heroin addiction. That you'd make the analogy shows you have no idea what the true nature of the problem is.

See, I'm not really debating the analogy--I'm debating your understanding of the topic at hand considering you'd make such a *terrible* analogy. It's not the sort of analogy that someone with any depth of insight into the problem would make.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
Fat people disgust me. I think it's an appalling way to treat your own body & they're effectively spitting in the face of anyone who is truly disabled.
What about a fat person who is a doctor specializing in research and/or treatment of the disabled?

What exactly do you do to ease the plight of the disabled?
 

whaleswiththumbs

New member
Feb 13, 2009
1,462
0
0
Hey they could loose the weight. It's there own fat-arse selves that say its an illness, I just realized the rascist (can you call the fatties a race?) that was and somehow I'm proud of it. If they want to loose weight I'm all for it, they can do it, if they also want to be obese and die early ten they can do so. I somehow make fun of fat people alot, don't really care what that says about me, if you think it's bad then you don't know the same fat-folks, the ones I know are just bad people, and we should give justice to the in-just. I consider myself n the same lines as a judge, Judge Whaley's courtroom is now in order, the large people stand up and tell me how many burgers they want.

Also your poll is flawed, if you put silly answers on it then you can't get good results, everyone wants to be "funny" even if nobody knows what they did. I chose to state me luv of a good badonkadonk. Nobody call me a rascist, i have feelings to and saying so only proves your need for it.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
george144 said:
Also anorexia is an illness that people cannot avoid as they are affected by the media and peers. But overweight people have not been pressured into overeating, in fact society tells us its bad to be overweight but people still get fat because there greedy.

Greedy? How did you come up with that? Are they fat because they're stealing the food from starving orphans in Africa?

Also, did you ever consider fat people are pressured into overeating because they've gotten the message somehow that they are bad people, so they should do bad things to their body...

...just like anorexics?

If we say its an illness its just giving fat people a crutch to fall back as they can whine that there ill and need help when all they really need to do is put down the fork. But that's just my opinion.
Maybe your opinion should be that if you say it's an illness, fat people will look on getting fit as a medical option and not a moral one, and will be more disposed to get fit?

I mean, how many people need anti-depressants but don't take them because of the stigma of admitting they have psychological problems, compared to the number of people who take heart medication because we haven't turned heart disease into a moral issue the way we have with depression and obesity?

Heck, when's the last time you looked on someone slim with a high cholesterol or who had heart surgery the way you look on a fat person whose coronary health you have no clue about?
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Fat people disgust me. I think it's an appalling way to treat your own body & they're effectively spitting in the face of anyone who is truly disabled.
What about a fat person who is a doctor specializing in research and/or treatment of the disabled?

What exactly do you do to ease the plight of the disabled?
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable. Unless that person cures all disabilites, he still is spitting in the faces of the disabled.
Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life, then you have some over weight guy, who is throwing away those possibilities for an extra pie. It truly sickens me.
 

InifniteWit

New member
Oct 24, 2008
141
0
0
Well look at heavyweight wrestlers(Not TV) and boxers, many of them including myself are considered obese technically while being perfectly healthy. My uncle was six foot four and weighed three hundred pounds. I'm six foot 270. A lot of big people are just that, big. For a frame my size I will never realistically weigh under 200lbs partly because of my plain size and my choice of sports. And there are others who are just fat slobs. A good indicator in my experience is to look at their joints. Fat people with tiny wrists and ankles probably aren't just heavy set, while if someone has equivalent joints to their size they probably would never be a little skinny kid or the like. Also I have amazing calves.
 

Seldon2639

New member
Feb 21, 2008
1,756
0
0
george144 said:
TrevorOfCrete said:
george144 said:
There fat because there lazy there's no other excuse, if it was genetic then surely you'd have poor children in third world countries who could gain fat easily. but no it always seem to be that the richer someone is the higher chance of them being a fat slob. I'm a bit underweight apparently and while it could be genetic I blame it on forgetting to eat and regular exercise and sports.
What about depression, mental illness, bulimia nerosa, alcoholism, GAD and even just plain old fashioned stress.

Why is it that anorexia is not seen in the same light? that is seen as a genuine illness. That is also a eating disorder, why should over-indulging been seen in any other way to under-indulging. They can both be a result of lifestyle and both come hand in hand with increased health risks.
Yes some of those problems do have an effect on obesity but they are the minority, the majority of fat people are just fat because they eat a lot and don't do enough exercise.

Also anorexia is an illness that people cannot avoid as they are affected by the media and peers. But overweight people have not been pressured into overeating, in fact society tells us its bad to be overweight but people still get fat because there greedy. If we say its an illness its just giving fat people a crutch to fall back as they can whine that there ill and need help when all they really need to do is put down the fork. But that's just my opinion.
I'm only curious about your distinction between one form of brain chemistry and another. You accept that psychological illnesses can have an effect on obesity, but that the root cause is not illness. That's a bit of a contradiction. If obesity is "bad" in the same way that depression is "bad", then whatever neurology causes it is by definition either maladaptive, or also "ill" (in the truest sense of the word). What's the difference between having brain chemistry screwing up oneself in one form, rather than another?

Mazty said:
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable. Unless that person cures all disabilites, he still is spitting in the faces of the disabled.
Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life, then you have some over weight guy, who is throwing away those possibilities for an extra pie. It truly sickens me.
Same question here. You say that the obese are spitting in the face of the disabled, but why are the obese not disabled in and of themselves? You'd say that schizophrenia is a disability, I assume, same thing with any other mental disorder. Why not obesity (or, at least, the neurology required to become obese)? All we've got up there is the brain, so either we blame everyone for the "choices" their brain makes (including those caused by maladaptation and errors), or we don't blame anyone and call it all disability. There's no middle ground without either saying "but it's a choice" (when modern neurology tells us it's all chemical and mechanical reactions, same thing that causes neurological disorders) or being a terrible hypocrite.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable.
So your problem isn't actually with fat people, it's with anyone who does not play sports. Do you treat/think of/talk about those who could play sports, are fit, but don't the same way as with fat people?

In fact, isn't that *more* of an insult to the disabled? Fit people who do not play sports who could play them today, as opposed to fat people who first need to get in match fitness?


Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life
Saying that the disabled can't lead a "normal life" is not just "effectively spitting in the face of the disabled," but is the speech equivalent of doing so.

If you don't think the disabled can lead a "normal life" then I don't think you're the kind of person they would want advocating for them.
 

Gamine

New member
Mar 7, 2009
314
0
0
I have always wondered what it feels like to be fat, i wonder if you see yourself expanding or you just wake up one morning , take a look in the mirror and HEY! you is Fat!

I am a Skinny gal trying to gain weight, not so skinny but id like a few founds, a lil fat is good for everyone but when you cross the size 14s and you have to have tailor-made underwear. .PLS..GET HELP!
 

seidlet

New member
Mar 5, 2009
152
0
0
Gamine said:
I have always wondered what it feels like to be fat, i wonder if you see yourself expanding or you just wake up one morning , take a look in the mirror and HEY! you is Fat!

I am a Skinny gal trying to gain weight, not so skinny but id like a few founds, a lil fat is good for everyone but when you cross the size 14s and you have to have tailor-made underwear. .PLS..GET HELP!
uhhh....you don't have to have tailor-made underwear at a size 16. i wore a size 16 for a LONG time, and i wasn't all that fat. not everyone is 5'4", you know.
 

seidlet

New member
Mar 5, 2009
152
0
0
Mazty said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Fat people disgust me. I think it's an appalling way to treat your own body & they're effectively spitting in the face of anyone who is truly disabled.
What about a fat person who is a doctor specializing in research and/or treatment of the disabled?

What exactly do you do to ease the plight of the disabled?
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable. Unless that person cures all disabilites, he still is spitting in the faces of the disabled.
Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life, then you have some over weight guy, who is throwing away those possibilities for an extra pie. It truly sickens me.
this is a totally bizarre line of logic, considering that the vast majority of fat people lead a perfectly normal life.
 

Seldon2639

New member
Feb 21, 2008
1,756
0
0
Gamine said:
I have always wondered what it feels like to be fat, i wonder if you see yourself expanding or you just wake up one morning , take a look in the mirror and HEY! you is Fat!

I am a Skinny gal trying to gain weight, not so skinny but id like a few founds, a lil fat is good for everyone but when you cross the size 14s and you have to have tailor-made underwear. .PLS..GET HELP!
From personal experience (in both gaining and losing weight) it's really gradual. You don't really notice it at all until you have to buy new pants. Even then, it's still slow enough that seeing yourself every morning you don't see gain, just the status quo. The reverse is true, too. You don't notice loss, just staying the same (which is why it's difficult to keep going in weight loss sometimes)
 

Keela

New member
Aug 16, 2008
505
0
0
I believe that sometimes, it really is an illness or genetics. But, most of the time, it's because of laziness and/or poor diet. I should know, because I am an American, and there are LOADS of chubs over here. However, there are also some very healthy and responsible people too. I think I'm somewhere in the middle.
 

asinann

New member
Apr 28, 2008
1,602
0
0
95% of fat people are fat because they eat too much and don't exercise.

There are 5% though that eat normal amounts of food (a sandwich at lunch, bowl of cereal at breakfast, normal sized dinner) and still get sickeningly huge.

You usually don't see these people though, they are usually embarrassed about it and try to be seen in public as little as possible while the ones that ate themselves fat don't care and take off shirts at the beach and other nasty things.
 

Gamine

New member
Mar 7, 2009
314
0
0
seidlet said:
Gamine said:
I have always wondered what it feels like to be fat, i wonder if you see yourself expanding or you just wake up one morning , take a look in the mirror and HEY! you is Fat!

I am a Skinny gal trying to gain weight, not so skinny but id like a few founds, a lil fat is good for everyone but when you cross the size 14s and you have to have tailor-made underwear. .PLS..GET HELP!
uhhh....you don't have to have tailor-made underwear at a size 16. i wore a size 16 for a LONG time, and i wasn't all that fat. not everyone is 5'4", you know.
Uh huh, i said when you actually need the tailor-made underwear. . .i never mentioned size 16 in my post o
 

Gamine

New member
Mar 7, 2009
314
0
0
Seldon2639 said:
Gamine said:
I have always wondered what it feels like to be fat, i wonder if you see yourself expanding or you just wake up one morning , take a look in the mirror and HEY! you is Fat!

I am a Skinny gal trying to gain weight, not so skinny but id like a few founds, a lil fat is good for everyone but when you cross the size 14s and you have to have tailor-made underwear. .PLS..GET HELP!
From personal experience (in both gaining and losing weight) it's really gradual. You don't really notice it at all until you have to buy new pants. Even then, it's still slow enough that seeing yourself every morning you don't see gain, just the status quo. The reverse is true, too. You don't notice loss, just staying the same (which is why it's difficult to keep going in weight loss sometimes)
I see my weight loss happening, i know what i can do to stop it, so i just start eating more/better and i try to gain back weight.
 

Gamine

New member
Mar 7, 2009
314
0
0
Keela said:
I believe that sometimes, it really is an illness or genetics. But, most of the time, it's because of laziness and/or poor diet. I should know, because I am an American, and there are LOADS of chubs over here. However, there are also some very healthy and responsible people too. I think I'm somewhere in the middle.
Americans can be FAT!! ahh my goddess! there must be something in the water! i have friends who went to the States over a year or two ago, i see their pics on Facebook now and i can hardly recognise them!!
 

asinann

New member
Apr 28, 2008
1,602
0
0
InifniteWit said:
Well look at heavyweight wrestlers(Not TV) and boxers, many of them including myself are considered obese technically while being perfectly healthy. My uncle was six foot four and weighed three hundred pounds. I'm six foot 270. A lot of big people are just that, big. For a frame my size I will never realistically weigh under 200lbs partly because of my plain size and my choice of sports. And there are others who are just fat slobs. A good indicator in my experience is to look at their joints. Fat people with tiny wrists and ankles probably aren't just heavy set, while if someone has equivalent joints to their size they probably would never be a little skinny kid or the like. Also I have amazing calves.
I understand exactly what you are talking about, but generally people with a build like that aren't disgusting to look at. If I drop to under 200lbs I'll look like paris hilton.
 

Magic Murder Bag

New member
Jan 15, 2009
49
0
0
Gamine said:
seidlet said:
Gamine said:
I have always wondered what it feels like to be fat, i wonder if you see yourself expanding or you just wake up one morning , take a look in the mirror and HEY! you is Fat!

I am a Skinny gal trying to gain weight, not so skinny but id like a few founds, a lil fat is good for everyone but when you cross the size 14s and you have to have tailor-made underwear. .PLS..GET HELP!
uhhh....you don't have to have tailor-made underwear at a size 16. i wore a size 16 for a LONG time, and i wasn't all that fat. not everyone is 5'4", you know.
Uh huh, i said when you actually need the tailor-made underwear. . .i never mentioned size 16 in my post o
No but you said 'when you cross size 14', which would suggest 14 and above. Size 14 (in the UK at least) is only 1 size above what is considered a healthy weight range, all you need to do to drop the extra couple of stone is healthy eating and exercise, not 'get help'. You made it sound like people of that size need to go to boot camp or something. Sorry to seem like I'm having a go but I'm a 16 myself and losing weight. I don't need help, or tailor-made underwear.
 

Virus017

New member
Feb 20, 2009
48
0
0
One word that I can think of over and over again in this thread is generalisation. indeed most obese people are obese because it is their own fault, but saying that for ALL obese people is very bad. It's hard to imagine what people with genuine illnesses go through when people stereotype them all the time. It's sad to admit it but maybe even I generalise in the back of my mind (I have never been overweight. Maybe even at tad underweight now), it is a big problem in today's society.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
seidlet said:
Mazty said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Fat people disgust me. I think it's an appalling way to treat your own body & they're effectively spitting in the face of anyone who is truly disabled.
What about a fat person who is a doctor specializing in research and/or treatment of the disabled?

What exactly do you do to ease the plight of the disabled?
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable. Unless that person cures all disabilites, he still is spitting in the faces of the disabled.
Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life, then you have some over weight guy, who is throwing away those possibilities for an extra pie. It truly sickens me.
this is a totally bizarre line of logic, considering that the vast majority of fat people lead a perfectly normal life.
By dying at a young age, or being generally exceptionally unhealthy, all in the name of gluttoney?
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Seldon2639 said:
Mazty said:
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable. Unless that person cures all disabilites, he still is spitting in the faces of the disabled.
Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life, then you have some over weight guy, who is throwing away those possibilities for an extra pie. It truly sickens me.
Same question here. You say that the obese are spitting in the face of the disabled, but why are the obese not disabled in and of themselves? You'd say that schizophrenia is a disability, I assume, same thing with any other mental disorder. Why not obesity (or, at least, the neurology required to become obese)? All we've got up there is the brain, so either we blame everyone for the "choices" their brain makes (including those caused by maladaptation and errors), or we don't blame anyone and call it all disability. There's no middle ground without either saying "but it's a choice" (when modern neurology tells us it's all chemical and mechanical reactions, same thing that causes neurological disorders) or being a terrible hypocrite.
There is no mental reason why a fat person can't stop eating other then insecurity. Most of the time a fat person is fat because they comfort eat, and/or don't exercise. Last time I checked being lazy or insecure didn't constitute an illness, just a weak character. If they become fat through weakness of character, then that isn't an illness. They are not forced to become fat, they have complete control over their weight, it is their choice to become fat. Find me someone who chose to become disabled, schizophrenic or autistic. All those people were not given a choice, they were born into a sh*tty situation, hence why fat people disgust me; they have a choice, and choose the easy option of knocking years off their life and giving up what so many disabled people can only wish of doing.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable.
So your problem isn't actually with fat people, it's with anyone who does not play sports. Do you treat/think of/talk about those who could play sports, are fit, but don't the same way as with fat people?

In fact, isn't that *more* of an insult to the disabled? Fit people who do not play sports who could play them today, as opposed to fat people who first need to get in match fitness?


Maybe not all, but probably the vast majority of disabled people can only dream of leading a normal life
Saying that the disabled can't lead a "normal life" is not just "effectively spitting in the face of the disabled," but is the speech equivalent of doing so.

If you don't think the disabled can lead a "normal life" then I don't think you're the kind of person they would want advocating for them.
No, it's with fat people. They cut their lives short & push up hospital bills, with some on the "oh but I'm ill". Bullcr*p. If their ill then every addiction is an illness. It's just weakness. Nothing is forcing them to pick up more food or to laze around.
And I do somewhat hold a grudge against those that are generally not fit. I'm not talking everyone should be in a Herculean physical condition, but people should make the most of what they have. That's why fat people are especially offensive as they actually willingly lower what they have in order for a lazy existence, just like smokers.
A fat person who is on a diet genuinely trying to get into shape e.g. loosing stones, not pounds, is fine as they are trying to get back onto a healthy path.
The disabled don't lead a normal life. I know, so don't dare to be naive enough to think that someone with either a mental or physical condition can lead a normal life. No matter how small the problem is, it will always follow you around, whether it's in the back of your mind, or you physically can't do certain jobs or tasks.
They are true victims of circumstance, conceived at the wrong time etc. A fat person has the ability to live a normal life and instead refuses to for no good reason, and in doing show, voluntarily lowers his/her state of living. A disabled person would give anything to raise theirs, and then you get these blobs willingly lowering theirs. How can you say that is alright?
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
My situation is irrelevant. If someone does not have the opportunity to participate in sports or lead a normal, healthy life, and another person who has a choice & chooses to throw all that away for gluttony, that is unforgivable.
So your problem isn't actually with fat people, it's with anyone who does not play sports. Do you treat/think of/talk about those who could play sports, are fit, but don't the same way as with fat people?
No, it's with fat people.
Then you make no sense. It's somehow worse to "throw all that away for gluttony" than to 'throw all that away for sloth'? You're basically saying you have an irrational--and therefore bigoted--dislike of fat people.




They cut their lives short & push up hospital bills,
That might not be true:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1441627

I'm not talking everyone should be in a Herculean physical condition, but people should make the most of what they have.
How do you know they're making so little of what they have? Maybe they made the most of what they have in the brains department. You don't know if a fit person has made more of what they have than a fat person. Maybe that fit person has a great mind but they were too lazy to ever use it. Isn't that a bigger waste than getting fat?


That's why fat people are especially offensive as they actually willingly lower what they have in order for a lazy existence
No they don't. They willingly lower it most of the time to enjoy the pleasure of eating. Just like the person who plays sports and winds up with arthritis willingly does things that will prevent them from having a healthy lifespan.


The disabled...are true victims of circumstance, conceived at the wrong time etc.
Or people who were reckless and stupid. Plenty of people are disabled because they got drunk, got in their car, and were paralyzed in an accident.

A fat person has the ability to live a normal life
Who says they don't have a normal life?

and instead refuses to for no good reason, and in doing show, voluntarily lowers his/her state of living. A disabled person would give anything to raise theirs, and then you get these blobs willingly lowering theirs. How can you say that is alright?
Because there's a hell of a lot more to life than "the opportunity to participate in sports"? I mean, I played sports. In fact, I played sports with fat people. So I don't know where you're getting this idea that fat people are throwing that away.

How can you say that is alright?
You've gone far beyond calling it 'not alright'. Even if I were to say "it isn't alright, but it's not so bad" I'd be light-years away from making as severe a judgment as you are.

To be honest, I find your inability to make a logical argument--the whole hating fat people because they can't play sports but not hating fit people who *choose* not to play sports thing--much more a case of throwing away what you have.

There are plenty of people with learning disabilities that can't put together a logical argument, and assuming you have an unimpaired mind, here you are throwing away that opportunity.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
So your problem isn't actually with fat people, it's with anyone who does not play sports. Do you treat/think of/talk about those who could play sports, are fit, but don't the same way as with fat people?
Your missing the point entirely on making it too specific. People who are not disabled have the option to lead a healthy life with no restrictions (physically). The disabled do not have this choice. For any healthy person to reduce their level of health through idiocy and vice e.g. smoking, drugs, eating is:
1)exceptionally idiotic
2)costly to the tax payer http://www.healthcarerepublic.com/news/GP/851301/Cost-obesity-NHS-England-rise-62-billion/
3)"Spitting" in the face of the disabled. The disabled do not have the choice to lead a normal, healthy existence, and would love to lead such a life. A fat person does, and chooses not to for no good reason. Morally that is not acceptable.

Someone who doesn't play sport can still be healthy, but I personally think they are wasting a good opportunity. End of the day they may not enjoy sport, so fair is fair.
However a fat person doesn't just not play sport, they live an exceptionally unhealthy life.
Fat people face a gigantic list of possible medical problems such as:
1)ischemic heart disease: angina and myocardial infarction
2)infertility
3)complications during pregnancy
4)birth defects
5)stroke
6)meralgia paresthetica
7)migraines
8)social stigmatization
The list goes on.
A paraplegic as a result of an accident of spina bifida can have some of these problems, as well as other disabled people with conditions such as Cystic fibrosis.
Now out of those three people, one had a choice to have that list of problems put upon them. What do you think the other two would say? Do you really think it's acceptable for someone to do that? Do you not think an obese person is abusing their body in the same way as a smoker?

How do you know they're making so little of what they have? Maybe they made the most of what they have in the brains department. You don't know if a fit person has made more of what they have than a fat person. Maybe that fit person has a great mind but they were too lazy to ever use it. Isn't that a bigger waste than getting fat?
Stop trying to digress. A fat person is abusing their body for no good reason.

No they don't. They willingly lower it most of the time to enjoy the pleasure of eating. Just like the person who plays sports and winds up with arthritis willingly does things that will prevent them from having a healthy lifespan.
Then you advocate someone who gives up their life to enjoy the wonders of smoking, opium, cocaine, cannabis, MDMA, PCP, Crystal Meth etc. A person should enjoy things in rational moderation, unless you think a decedent society is alright. And why can a person not enjoy food and stay fit? Your saying to enjoy food you have to be obese, which frankly is nonsense.


The disabled...are true victims of circumstance, conceived at the wrong time etc.
Or people who were reckless and stupid. Plenty of people are disabled because they got drunk, got in their car, and were paralyzed in an accident.
What a disgusting insensitive comment. The vast majority of disabled people are not drink drivers. I can see that you clearly don't know anyone disabled otherwise you wouldn't make such a vile comment. Try looking up the term BIRTH DEFECTS.


Who says they don't have a normal life?
Doctors.
http://web4health.info/el/answers/ed-other-obesity-risks.htm
http://www.weightconcern.org.uk/

There's a hell of a lot more to life than "the opportunity to participate in sports"? I mean, I played sports. In fact, I played sports with fat people. So I don't know where you're getting this idea that fat people are throwing that away.
There's more to life then sport, yes, but a fat person cuts his life short. Simple. And again, it's for no good reason.

You've gone far beyond calling it 'not alright'. Even if I were to say "it isn't alright, but it's not so bad" I'd be light-years away from making as severe a judgment as you are.
To be honest, I find your inability to make a logical argument--the whole hating fat people because they can't play sports but not hating fit people who *choose* not to play sports thing--much more a case of throwing away what you have.
There are plenty of people with learning disabilities that can't put together a logical argument, and assuming you have an unimpaired mind, here you are throwing away that opportunity.
You missed the point of my argument if you think it's just to do with playing sport. It's to do with living a normal life and that fat people lower their health voluntarily for no reason other than gluttony.
But hey, what do you care, you think a lot of disabled people are drink drivers.
 

NeedAUserName

New member
Aug 7, 2008
3,803
0
0
Some people do suffer from a gene that makes them heavier, although I don't think its that common. Most overweight people are either to blame themselves, or in the case of young children, the parents.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
For any healthy person to reduce their level of health through idiocy and vice e.g. smoking, drugs, eating is:
1)exceptionally idiotic
2)costly to the tax payer http://www.healthcarerepublic.com/news/GP/851301/Cost-obesity-NHS-England-rise-62-billion/
3)"Spitting" in the face of the disabled. The disabled do not have the choice to lead a normal, healthy existence, and would love to lead such a life. A fat person does, and chooses not to for no good reason.
1) that's not a reason, that's just you restating your opinion in different words

2) that link provides no data on what it will cost in health care if those people slimmed down and lived long and got more costly diseases than the ones associated with obesity, so we don't *know* if it's costly because we have nothing to compare it to; it's quite possible that it's LESS COSTLY FOR PEOPLE TO BE FAT:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1441627

3) pleasure is a good reason. Eating food is pleasurable. Getting fat is no more an insult to the disabled because you ate a lot than getting arthritis from playing sports.

What do you think the other two would say? Do you really think it's acceptable for someone to do that? Do you not think an obese person is abusing their body in the same way as a smoker?
Smokers generally smoke not because they enjoy smoking, but because they don't enjoy not smoking.

The 1,000th smoke is way less pleasurable than the first. On the other hand, the 1,000th slice of pizza can taste just as good as the first.

Stop trying to digress. A fat person is abusing their body for no good reason.
Stop trying to pretend that pleasure isn't a good reason, especially when you keep promoting sports, which lead to all kinds of injuries.

Then you advocate someone who gives up their life
I don't advocate anyone giving up their life. Fat people don't give up their life. They might give up part of it, but they certainly don't give it all up, or even many of the most important parts of it.

to enjoy the wonders of smoking, opium, cocaine, cannabis, MDMA, PCP, Crystal Meth etc.
Again, most those drugs? They lose their effectiveness, and people do them because it feels bad not to. On the other hand, food stays delicious.



A person should enjoy things in rational moderation, unless you think a decedent society is alright.
Again, you keep switching between "alright" and saying these people are throwing their lives away. You need to pick an argument as to how wrong you think being fat is, and stick with it.

And why can a person not enjoy food and stay fit? Your saying to enjoy food you have to be obese, which frankly is nonsense.
You can enjoy more food if you're willing to get obese.


The disabled...are true victims of circumstance, conceived at the wrong time etc.
Or people who were reckless and stupid. Plenty of people are disabled because they got drunk, got in their car, and were paralyzed in an accident.
What a disgusting insensitive comment.
Funny, I thought the same thing about you saying the disabled can't live 'normal' lives.

The vast majority of disabled people are not drink drivers.
Some are though. You're ignoring that fact. Why shouldn't we treat fat people the same as, say, people who get arthritis from playing sports?


Who says they don't have a normal life?
Doctors.

Doctors can only answer that question from a *medical* point of view. I'm interested in a *human* point of view, as I am a human and not a lab rat.

There's more to life then sport, yes, but a fat person cuts his life short. Simple. And again, it's for no good reason.
Again, pleasure is a good reason.

You missed the point of my argument if you think it's just to do with playing sport.
No, I've pointed to a flaw in your argument which you missed.

It's to do with living a normal life and that fat people lower their health voluntarily for no reason other than gluttony.
Using a pejorative term for something is not a substitute for an argument why something is bad.


But hey, what do you care, you think a lot of disabled people are drink drivers.
And you talk as if none of them are.

And you still won't answer the question: what's the difference between someone who winds up with arthritis or worse from playing sports, and someone who winds up with a weight-related condition from eating a lot?

I mean, you talk about how a "person should enjoy things in rational moderation." Well, if American/Canadian Football 'rational'? Rugby? Australian Rules Football? MMA? Boxing? Skateboarding? Skiing? Kickboxing? Soccer--all those headers take a toll.

"Sports and recreational activities contribute to about 21 percent of all traumatic brain injuries among American children and adolescents."

http://www.neurosurgerytoday.org/what/patient_e/sports.asp

Do you spew the same bile towards people who participate in high-risk sports that you do towards fat people? If you don't, how is that not hypocrisy (ignoring the false claim that there's no 'good reason' to wind up fat) on your part?
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Your argument completely fails as you believe you have to be fat to enjoy food.
That is not the case, so being obese is not for the pleasure of food. Your argument is the same as saying to enjoy alcohol, you have to be an alcoholic.
Again, most those drugs? They lose their effectiveness, and people do them because it feels bad not to. On the other hand, food stays delicious. The 1,000th smoke is way less pleasurable than the first. On the other hand, the 1,000th slice of pizza can taste just as good as the first.
I can guarantee you, heroin stays feeling great the first & last time you do it.
You treat being obese almost as if it is a sport, or art.
Over-eating is an addiction: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5399762.stm
That's what it is, over-eating, not being able to restrain themselves. Being obese is not a requirement for enjoying food, it is gluttony.
And look at the other links I provided. One is a government funded scheme, which ultimatly is to save the NHS money. If it was more cost effective to be obese, they wouldn't run the scheme would they?
A person cannot be obese and healthy. Simple.

And you still won't answer the question: what's the difference between someone who winds up with arthritis or worse from playing sports, and someone who winds up with a weight-related condition from eating a lot?
Sport, as with everything, should be done in moderation, and most of the time they are safe and beneficial to the person in terms of health.
Eating excessively is an addiction and is not beneficial to the person in anyway. Their standard of health is lowered because of gluttony, no different from a smoker. This in no way can label them as being disabled.

As for your exceptionally ignorant and naive perception on disabled people being drink drivers, just look up all the birth defects & genetic disorders.

Doctors can only answer that question from a *medical* point of view. I'm interested in a *human* point of view, as I am a human and not a lab rat.
What? Obesity is a health issue and the thread is on is it an illness, so it is about a medical point of view. As for a human point of view, obesity is the result of decadence.
 

Nivag the Owl

Owl of Hyper-Intelligence
Oct 29, 2008
2,615
0
0
I think being like, diagnostically obese is an illness. Its obviously a result of no will power to stop eating so much or start exercising. This is why I'm voting "both".
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Actually some of the hardest working people I know are fat. They are always busy so don't have time for a decent diet and eat what they can when they can, that or only have one meal a day. In any case the real question is for a bunch of people who claim that being racist, sexist or bigoted on any subject is wrong, how do you then go about judging people on something as trivial as their weight?
 

Arcade_Fire

New member
Mar 7, 2009
201
0
0
I think it's a combination of life choices and genetics, isn't it? On just usually outweighs the other depending on the case.

Pun intended. BOOM.
 

NiceGurl_14

New member
Aug 14, 2008
559
0
0
It's as a lot of people have said, it could go either way. I, for example, try to get out and exercise and I still can't lose weight. A large part of it is the genetics but not all of it. ( I have other medical conditions that add to it) so a lot of the time it tends to be an unfortunate side affect of things like medications or due to injury or something like that.
 

kanyatta

New member
Aug 6, 2008
92
0
0
It's different for everyone. There are people who just choose not to take care of themselves, then there are people who are predisposed to it.

Personally, I'm 6'1"~ and 200 lbs, and I'm 18 years old. I'd like to be at about 170-180, so I've run 1-3 miles a day for the past 2 years, and I play basketball and football pretty regularly. I rarely, if ever, have candy, chips, whatever. The only "junk food" I ever have is soda, and I just can't kick the habit. Although, to say I have 1 soda per day would be a huge stretch.

Granted, I play video games as well, but I still exercise at least an hour a day, and eat pretty well, in my opinion, but I haven't lost a single pound in 2 years. But, I guess I've only gained about 10 in 2 years, which isn't that bad...

Yeah, anyway, just because you have luck in the metabolism department, don't assume everyone else does. Some people probably work many times harder than you, and don't have nearly as good results.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Your argument completely fails as you believe you have to be fat to enjoy food.
I never said that. Strawman.

That is not the case, so being obese is not for the pleasure of food.
It's for the additional pleasure of the food that made you obese. Stop with the strawman arguments.



I can guarantee you, heroin stays feeling great the first & last time you do it.
Bullshit. The more heroin you do, the bigger the hits have to get to feel as good.

The first slice of pizza can taste just as good as the last. Even without extra cheese.


You treat being obese almost as if it is a sport, or art.
You ignore the damage sports do to the body.


Being obese is not a requirement for enjoying food, it is gluttony.
Again with the strawman.



And look at the other links I provided. One is a government funded scheme, which ultimatly is to save the NHS money. If it was more cost effective to be obese, they wouldn't run the scheme would they?
Fuck yeah they would. Don't doubt the ability of ideology to influence science.

In 1982, Marshall and his colleague, Robin Warren, discovered that peptic ulcers are caused by a parasitic bacterium called helicobacter pylori (H. pylori). But the medical community wasn't buying it. First of all, stress was the 'known' cause of stomach ulcers. And secondly, no one believed that bacteria could survive in the highly acidic environment of the stomach.

Sensing a drastic measure was called for, Marshall drank a culture of H. pylori. The result: nausea, vomiting, severe abdominal pains...in short: an ulcer! Endoscopy confirmed it with visual evidence of H. pylori at the point of inflammation. Then Marshall cured his infection with antibiotics.

This technique may not have qualified as accepted scientific methodology, but as personal testimonials go it was pretty convincing. Still, it took years for the medical community to fully embrace the discovery that revolutionised our knowledge of peptic ulcers and how to treat them. Last week the Nobel Assembly announced that Marshall and Warren will receive the 2005 prize for medicine.


http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/natural-health-articles/digestive-problems/nobel-prize-h-pylori-research-00257.html

A person cannot be obese and healthy. Simple.
When did I ever dispute that?

Sport, as with everything, should be done in moderation, and most of the time they are safe
Bullshit. I've watched a dude break his ankle playing sports so that it was turned ninety degrees the wrong way. I'd rather see a hundred naked fat people do jumping jacks than see that again.


As for your exceptionally ignorant and naive perception on disabled people being drink drivers, just look up all the birth defects & genetic disorders.
Yeah, I know about them. Doesn't diminish the number of disabled who got that way through reckless activity like drunk driving or the fact that you keep ignoring the fact that many disabled wound up that way through reckless behavior--behavior way more reckless than eating another slice of pizza.

Doctors can only answer that question from a *medical* point of view. I'm interested in a *human* point of view, as I am a human and not a lab rat.
What? Obesity is a health issue and the thread is on is it an illness, so it is about a medical point of view.
"spitting in the faces of the disabled" is a medical point of view? Hmm, doesn't sound like a medical point of view to me...

As for a human point of view, obesity is the result of decadence.
What the hell is wrong with decadence?
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Anonymouse said:
Actually some of the hardest working people I know are fat. They are always busy so don't have time for a decent diet and eat what they can when they can, that or only have one meal a day. In any case the real question is for a bunch of people who claim that being racist, sexist or bigoted on any subject is wrong, how do you then go about judging people on something as trivial as their weight?
That's what I don't get. Aren't we supposed to be judged on the content of our character, and not the color--or total yardage--of our skin?
 

Ronwue

New member
Oct 22, 2008
607
0
0
Obesity, in my opinion, is not a disease. How you can tell this? There are no naturally fat chimps out there, at least to my knowledge... then again... I'm not a zoologist so I wouldn't know for sure. You can always stop eating.
 

JokerGrin

New member
Jan 11, 2009
722
0
0
Hunde Des Krieg said:
Well, it isn't so cut and dry. Some people are lazy and become fat, some people are basically fat for life due to slower than normal metabolisms, other people don't know when to stop eating. It is never black and white no matter how it may appear.
Well that saves me a lot of typing, thanks.
 

Iron Mal

New member
Jun 4, 2008
2,749
0
0
In my opinion, obesity is the result of lazy individuals who have great difficulty in putting the bloody fork down.

Granted, in some (rare) cases it can be attributed to outside influences which are beond the individual's control, but these circumstances are so rare that the large majority of fat people out there can't tag along on this scapegoat and need to take responsability for their own condition and do something about it or accept themselves as they are and stop making a scene. (just for clarity, I am not some scrawny stick insect...I am a fairly large person myself, although I could probably be better described as 'burly' rather than 'chubby')

Considering how we have bigger problems in the world I don't have much sympathy for the self-pity of those who waste time whining about how they're not satisfied with the way they look.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh or cold and I appologise if I offend anyone.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Your argument completely fails as you believe you have to be fat to enjoy food.
I never said that. Strawman.
It's for the additional pleasure of the food that made you obese. Stop with the strawman arguments.
So then the only reason a person becomes obese, isn't infact to enjoy food, it's because he enjoys it too much, making the person addicted to eating. Again, I refer you to the artile that reguards over eating as an addiction & it's obvious the implications if you believe an addiction is acceptable.

The more heroin you do, the bigger the hits have to get to feel as good.
The first slice of pizza can taste just as good as the last. Even without extra cheese.
The more obese you are, the more you will want to eat to enjoy food, hence the reason fat people are fat; they over eat.


You ignore the damage sports do to the body.
I've watched a dude break his ankle playing sports so that it was turned ninety degrees the wrong way. I'd rather see a hundred naked fat people do jumping jacks than see that again.
Sport isn't the safest thing on the planet, but that doesn't happen everytime someone goes to play a sport does it? Stop blowing things out of proportion, you come across as having a phobia of sports.
Anyway, most of the medical world would agree that being obese is more dangerous than some sports e.g. badminton. Just take a look at a list of medical problems that can arise due to obesity. End of the day, a broken foot will get better, whereas being infertile will screw you up, if the high blood pressure hasn't killed you.

Don't doubt the ability of ideology to influence science.
Any evidence that all the problems caused by obesity, which is a huge list, is cheaper on the health system than that of a healthy person? The fact one is healthy & the other can't be classified as that says it all. A healthy person stays out of a hospital, an obese one doesn't.
As for the riveting story, believe that pipe dream if it helps you sleep at night, I'm going to go with the rest of the medical world on the pretty obvious conclusion that being fat is unhealthy & not an illness, but an addiction.

Yeah, I know about them. Doesn't diminish the number of disabled who got that way through reckless activity like drunk driving or the fact that you keep ignoring the fact that many disabled wound up that way through reckless behavior--behavior way more reckless than eating another slice of pizza.
Any figures, or going to ignorantly act like the majoroty of disabled people are that way through choice? And please, enlighten me as to how someone can be a victim of these conditions through reckless behaviour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders
You are living in one twisted & warped reality if you think that most disabled people are that way through their own behaviour.

"spitting in the faces of the disabled" is a medical point of view? Hmm, doesn't sound like a medical point of view to me...
Let me remind you how this came about
Cheeze: Who says they don't have a normal life?
Mazty: Doctors.
Cheeze: Doctors can only answer that question from a *medical* point of view.

Doctors say that a obese person isn't going to have a normal life, because a normal life is deemed a healthy one.

What the hell is wrong with decadence?
Decadence: the state of being degenerate in mental or moral qualities.
Enough said.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Your argument completely fails as you believe you have to be fat to enjoy food.
I never said that. Strawman.
It's for the additional pleasure of the food that made you obese. Stop with the strawman arguments.
So then the only reason a person becomes obese, isn't infact to enjoy food, it's because he enjoys it too much,
Who said he enjoys it too much? You're stuffing your conclusion in your premise now.

The more obese you are, the more you will want to eat to enjoy food,
Not necessarily.




You ignore the damage sports do to the body.
I've watched a dude break his ankle playing sports so that it was turned ninety degrees the wrong way. I'd rather see a hundred naked fat people do jumping jacks than see that again.
Sport isn't the safest thing on the planet, but that doesn't happen everytime someone goes to play a sport does it?
Not every fat person dies of a heart attack, do they?


Anyway, most of the medical world would agree that being obese is more dangerous than some sports e.g. badminton.
Do you look on people who play sports other than badminton the way you look on fat people?

Just take a look at a list of medical problems that can arise due to obesity. End of the day, a broken foot will get better,
A broken neck and a severed spinal column won't.

Don't doubt the ability of ideology to influence science.
Any evidence that all the problems caused by obesity, which is a huge list, is cheaper on the health system than that of a healthy person?
Once again:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1441627


A healthy person stays out of a hospital, an obese one doesn't.
All healthy people stay out of the hospital forever? No--both healthy and obese people stay out of the hospital until they get sick. Obese people have a much greater chance of going earlier in life.


As for the riveting story, believe that pipe dream if it helps you sleep at night, I'm going to go with the rest of the medical world on the pretty obvious conclusion that being fat is unhealthy & not an illness, but an addiction.
How do you know being fat is the addiction? It's the overeating that's the addiction. Maybe they were addicted before they got fat. If so, they are more like crack babies than smokers.


Yeah, I know about them. Doesn't diminish the number of disabled who got that way through reckless activity like drunk driving or the fact that you keep ignoring the fact that many disabled wound up that way through reckless behavior--behavior way more reckless than eating another slice of pizza.
Any figures, or going to ignorantly act like the majoroty
Any dictionaries, or are you going to pretend that "many"="majority" to construct another strawman?



Doctors say that a obese person isn't going to have a normal life, because a normal life is deemed a healthy one.
You're equivocating on the meaning of the word "normal" moving without justification from the medical to the moral sense.

What the hell is wrong with decadence?
Decadence: the state of being degenerate in mental or moral qualities.
Enough said.
Um, no--you can't just stop at the entry you like. Decadence can also mean "a luxurious self-indulgence"

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/decadent

Why do you continue to behave as if you can use pejorative terms as a substitute for actual argument? Maybe you should exercise the body a little less, and the mind a little more!
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Your argument completely fails as you believe you have to be fat to enjoy food.
I never said that. Strawman.
It's for the additional pleasure of the food that made you obese. Stop with the strawman arguments.
So then the only reason a person becomes obese, isn't infact to enjoy food, it's because he enjoys it too much,
Who said he enjoys it too much? You're stuffing your conclusion in your premise now.
No, the only person doing the stuffing is the fat person. The fact that the person is putting his life in permanent danger for the love of eating shows he has his priorities wrong.

The more obese you are, the more you will want to eat to enjoy food,
Not necessarily.
Find me a fat person that eats in moderation. Oh wait, if that was the case they wouldn't be fat.

You ignore the damage sports do to the body.
I've watched a dude break his ankle playing sports so that it was turned ninety degrees the wrong way. I'd rather see a hundred naked fat people do jumping jacks than see that again.
Sport isn't the safest thing on the planet, but that doesn't happen every time someone goes to play a sport does it?
Not every fat person dies of a heart attack, do they?
No, but every obese person suffers because of it in one way or another. When a person stops playing sports, the danger goes away. When a fat person stops eating, the risk is still there 24/7.

Do you look on people who play sports other than badminton the way you look on fat people?
I said for example, stop being pedantic and making strawmen. Again sports in the whole is healthy & productive for a person, shovelling food into your mouth isn't, and most of the time it's not for the pleasure of food, it's comfort eating. No different to someone on crack. Instead of dealing with an issue, they turn to something else.

A broken neck and a severed spinal column won't [get better].
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5285186.stm
Because you hear about broken necks and spinal columns so much in the news as a result of sport. Wait, no you don't, and severe sports injuries won't come close to the figure of 12 million.
Don't doubt the ability of ideology to influence science.
Any evidence that all the problems caused by obesity, which is a huge list, is cheaper on the health system than that of a healthy person?
Once again:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1441627
That's for the US health system, not the NHS. Plus it hasn't seemed to be vastly scientifically credited, hence the really crappy journal. Also it works on the fale assumption that all old people end up ill in a hospital.

How do you know being fat is the addiction? It's the overeating that's the addiction. Maybe they were addicted before they got fat. If so, they are more like crack babies than smokers.
Being fat isn't the addiction, how on earth would that work? Fattys are addicted to food, not being in a bad state of health. How are they like crack babies? Obese people are a result of their lack of will to put down a fork, hence the reason they are not disabled; just weak.

Yeah, I know about them. Doesn't diminish the number of disabled who got that way through reckless activity like drunk driving or the fact that you keep ignoring the fact that many disabled wound up that way through reckless behavior--behavior way more reckless than eating another slice of pizza.
Any figures, or going to ignorantly act like the majority
Any dictionaries, or are you going to pretend that "many"="majority" to construct another strawman?
Alright, if you insist on being pedantic. Any figures to show how many people are disabled as a result of their own reckless behaviour? Somehow I don't think it'll come close to how many people are obese through reckless/unhealthy behaviour, which is almost all of them.

You're equivocating on the meaning of the word "normal" moving without justification from the medical to the moral sense.
How can a fat person lead a normal life? They are stigmatised for their addiction and are in an unhealthy state. They are limited to what they can do because of their health, so that is not a normal life.

Um, no--you can't just stop at the entry you like. Decadence can also mean "a luxurious self-indulgence"
self-indulgence - an inability to resist the gratification of whims and desires
Sounds like an addiction to me. And an addiction is down to weakness of character.

Being fat is giving into an unhealthy desire, just the same as smoking, or cocaine.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
No, the only person doing the stuffing is the fat person. The fact that the person is putting his life in permanent danger for the love of eating shows he has his priorities wrong.
That's just restating your argument in different words. You need to *support* your argument--I'm not interested in you repeating the same thing in every possible permutation of the argument you can make.

The more obese you are, the more you will want to eat to enjoy food,
Not necessarily.
Find me a fat person that eats in moderation.
Do you understand the difference between a negative feedback loop, and a threshold set too high? Because you're kinda crossing those two arguments here.


Not every fat person dies of a heart attack, do they?
No, but every obese person suffers because of it in one way or another. When a person stops playing sports, the danger goes away.
Tell that to the dude who winds up with arthritis or lingering effects of a concussion.

Do you look on people who play sports other than badminton the way you look on fat people?
I said for example, stop being pedantic and making strawmen.
I'm not making a strawman--you refuse to draw the line where sports become irrational. I'm drawing it for you best I can.


Again sports in the whole is healthy & productive for a person, shovelling food into your mouth isn't, and most of the time it's not for the pleasure of food, it's comfort eating.
Comfort is not a good thing? According to that logic, if I'm warm enough to avoid damaging my health, getting under a blanket because I like the comfort of warmth is 'decadent'


A broken neck and a severed spinal column won't [get better].
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5285186.stm
Because you hear about broken necks and spinal columns so much in the news as a result of sport. Wait, no you don't, and severe sports injuries won't come close to the figure of 12 million.
A lot more people eat than play rugby. Seriously--you ever played tighthead prop?


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1441627
That's for the US health system, not the NHS.
They're English, not Klingon. It's not that big a difference.

Plus it hasn't seemed to be vastly scientifically credited, hence the really crappy journal.
The PLoS is a crappy journal? The smoking study was in the New England Journal of Medicine--that's your idea of a crappy journal?

Being fat isn't the addiction, how on earth would that work? Fattys are addicted to food, not being in a bad state of health. How are they like crack babies?
They were both born with an addiction.


Alright, if you insist on being pedantic.
I insist on you not turning everything I say into a strawman. That's pedantic?

Any figures to show how many people are disabled as a result of their own reckless behaviour? Somehow I don't think it'll come close to how many people are obese through reckless/unhealthy behaviour, which is almost all of them.
Somehow I think you've very biased in your projection.



How can a fat person lead a normal life? They are stigmatised for their addiction and are in an unhealthy state. They are limited to what they can do because of their health, so that is not a normal life.
They do everything they want. That's a normal life.

Um, no--you can't just stop at the entry you like. Decadence can also mean "a luxurious self-indulgence"
self-indulgence - an inability to resist the gratification of whims and desires
Sounds like an addiction to me. And an addiction is down to weakness of character.
Sounds like you're cherry-picking your definitions again:

indulging or tending to indulge one?s desires.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/selfindulgent

Being fat is giving into an unhealthy desire, just the same as smoking, or cocaine.
Food is the equal of cocaine or tobacco? You're just being silly now.
 

Xanadeas

New member
Oct 19, 2008
690
0
0
Mazty said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Mazty said:
Your argument completely fails as you believe you have to be fat to enjoy food.
I never said that. Strawman.
It's for the additional pleasure of the food that made you obese. Stop with the strawman arguments.
So then the only reason a person becomes obese, isn't infact to enjoy food, it's because he enjoys it too much,
Who said he enjoys it too much? You're stuffing your conclusion in your premise now.
No, the only person doing the stuffing is the fat person. The fact that the person is putting his life in permanent danger for the love of eating shows he has his priorities wrong.

The more obese you are, the more you will want to eat to enjoy food,
Not necessarily.
Find me a fat person that eats in moderation. Oh wait, if that was the case they wouldn't be fat.

You ignore the damage sports do to the body.
I've watched a dude break his ankle playing sports so that it was turned ninety degrees the wrong way. I'd rather see a hundred naked fat people do jumping jacks than see that again.
Sport isn't the safest thing on the planet, but that doesn't happen every time someone goes to play a sport does it?
Not every fat person dies of a heart attack, do they?
No, but every obese person suffers because of it in one way or another. When a person stops playing sports, the danger goes away. When a fat person stops eating, the risk is still there 24/7.

Do you look on people who play sports other than badminton the way you look on fat people?
I said for example, stop being pedantic and making strawmen. Again sports in the whole is healthy & productive for a person, shovelling food into your mouth isn't, and most of the time it's not for the pleasure of food, it's comfort eating. No different to someone on crack. Instead of dealing with an issue, they turn to something else.

A broken neck and a severed spinal column won't [get better].
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5285186.stm
Because you hear about broken necks and spinal columns so much in the news as a result of sport. Wait, no you don't, and severe sports injuries won't come close to the figure of 12 million.
Don't doubt the ability of ideology to influence science.
Any evidence that all the problems caused by obesity, which is a huge list, is cheaper on the health system than that of a healthy person?
Once again:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1441627
That's for the US health system, not the NHS. Plus it hasn't seemed to be vastly scientifically credited, hence the really crappy journal. Also it works on the fale assumption that all old people end up ill in a hospital.

How do you know being fat is the addiction? It's the overeating that's the addiction. Maybe they were addicted before they got fat. If so, they are more like crack babies than smokers.
Being fat isn't the addiction, how on earth would that work? Fattys are addicted to food, not being in a bad state of health. How are they like crack babies? Obese people are a result of their lack of will to put down a fork, hence the reason they are not disabled; just weak.

Yeah, I know about them. Doesn't diminish the number of disabled who got that way through reckless activity like drunk driving or the fact that you keep ignoring the fact that many disabled wound up that way through reckless behavior--behavior way more reckless than eating another slice of pizza.
Any figures, or going to ignorantly act like the majority
Any dictionaries, or are you going to pretend that "many"="majority" to construct another strawman?
Alright, if you insist on being pedantic. Any figures to show how many people are disabled as a result of their own reckless behaviour? Somehow I don't think it'll come close to how many people are obese through reckless/unhealthy behaviour, which is almost all of them.

You're equivocating on the meaning of the word "normal" moving without justification from the medical to the moral sense.
How can a fat person lead a normal life? They are stigmatised for their addiction and are in an unhealthy state. They are limited to what they can do because of their health, so that is not a normal life.

Um, no--you can't just stop at the entry you like. Decadence can also mean "a luxurious self-indulgence"
self-indulgence - an inability to resist the gratification of whims and desires
Sounds like an addiction to me. And an addiction is down to weakness of character.

Being fat is giving into an unhealthy desire, just the same as smoking, or cocaine.
I'm quite a large individual myself... The reason isn't due to overeating. It's because I don't exercise or eat right. I eat one standard meal a day. I NEVER drink water and I admit to having a bit of a sweet tooth. I am not constantly stuffing my face nor do I drink lots of soda. In fact I might have one soda every couple weeks. I don't eat fast food too often (it tastes kinda nasty now actually) but I used to.

So far all I've seen of your posts is you saying that fat people are only fat because they over eat. That is not the case, a person can get fat because they don't eat enough and their body's metabolism begins to slow down. The body begins to hold onto everything you give it and stores it as fat so that it can later be burned for energy. Insinuating and even outright stating that every fat person is fat because they live a "decadent' lifestyle is nothing more than ignorance to the highest degree.

Now I've admitted to being lazy, but I didn't mention that I also have asthma, arthritis, and a number of other health concerns that prevent me from exercising. For me exercising is not rewarding but punishing. My lungs feel as though they're on fire and I cease being able to breathe. When I was a child I was frequently rushed to the emergency room for medical treatment because of my asthma acting up whenever I even attempted to run for any amount of time.

I am fat because 1) I have a predisposition towards it. Lots of people in my family are large. When I was a kid I was not fat but I was still quite large due to having a naturally heavy build. 2) I have suffered from asthma my whole life and after a while I stopped trying to exercise because the prospect of dying from asphyxia scared the shit out of me. 3) I don't eat enough to ensure that my metabolism functions properly and thus my body continues to hold onto the things that I do give it.

I am NOT fat because I overeat or even enjoy eating. I would love be skinnier, I would love to not suffer from asthma and arthritis. I would love to live a "normal" life. I would like it if children wouldn't tug on their mother's shirts and say "He's fat" when I'm in line to purchase a bottle of juice at the gas station. However due to a number of factors out of my control, I am fat. I live with that fact and I do not ask for sympathy, I ask for idiots to stop bein' dicks to me and saying that I am fat because I over eat.
 
Apr 28, 2008
14,634
0
0
People complain that they are fat, yet I see very few actually go on a diet and work out and actually make a commitment. I just can't stand it when people say that they are fat because of genetics when they eat fast food everyday. Maybe stopping the McDonalds intake will do something.

Of course thats probably not true for most obese people, just the jackasses who complain about being fat and eat fatty foods all the time
 

Zykon TheLich

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 20, 2020
2,665
14
43
Country
UK
Anonymouse said:
Actually some of the hardest working people I know are fat. They are always busy so don't have time for a decent diet and eat what they can when they can, that or only have one meal a day.
I would just like to say I am incredibly lazy, yet also underweight. I might only eat one meal a day or I might have 3, some days I forget to eat at all. Just goes to show that eating loads is not the be all and end all of how large you are.

As far as being overweight goes, if you aren't prepared to do what it takes to loose weight, whatever that might be and you are ok with how large you are then fuck it, who am I to complain about how big you are?
 

nathan-dts

New member
Jun 18, 2008
1,538
0
0
TheNecroswanson said:
I have a wonderful diet, I have a very active life. I'm doing an hour to almost up to three hours of aerobics and calisthenics a day. I weight train 3 times a week.
And yet I can't lose a single pound.
My friend, eats four times as much as I could eat in a day. He sleeps until noon, and never exercises except for once a month at his reserves drill.
yet he weighs 150 pounds.

There is far more to weight problems then "exercising, laziness, and diet.".
Agreed. The only exercise I ever get in a week is walking around school to my next lesson and i'm actually underwieght.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
To save a wall of text, I'm going to go over the basics as you seem to have a strange view on what it means to be obese, the consequences of being obese & what it means to be disabled.

Obesity is unhealthy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_associated_morbidity (All the illnesses have valid references)

Exercise is healthy.
Sport is a form of exercise.
Therefore sport is healthy.

Sport is not free from dangers, but with care, and done in moderation, any long term health problems can be avoided, and short term health problems can be minimised.

There is no way to minimise the problematic health effects of being obese, as obesity is an unhealthy state.

Obesity costs the tax payers more money than that of a regular person (applies to the NHS, an entirely state funded health system):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7656214.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/oct/14/health.medicineandhealth
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Healthimprovement/Obesity/DH_4133949 (gives figures of obesity related problems e.g. cancer)
http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2008/10/17/48030/obesity-set-to-cost-nhs-up-to-6.3bn-a-year-by-2015.html

For a person to live a normal life they should have as few mental & physical restraints as realistically possible.
Being obese restricts what a person can do physically, preventing a normal life.
A disabled person is restricted mentally and /or physically, preventing them from living a normal life.

An obese person (in most cases) has caused the restrictions on their life through their eating & exercise habits.
A disabled person is, in most cases, born with the disability.
No obese person is born with poor eating & exercise habits.

Unlike a large amount of disabilities, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders) a person can become obese through their own actions.
Eating is addictive, however everyone needs to eat, and only some give in to this addiction
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/434559.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2707143.stm
An addiction can be broken if the person desires it. (However, I am referring to people who have become obese through over-eating, not through it being a side-effect of a medical illness)

A disabled person cannot be an able bodied person if they desire it.

To enjoy food, you do not need to eat excessively, or be obese.

Therefore, the conclusion is that being obese is unhealthy, costly, and an addiction (in most cases), not a disability.

Personally I think addictions are the signs of a weak character, nothing more, hence why people smoke, do drugs excessively etc.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Mazty said:
*stuff in support of the conclusion*

Therefore, the conclusion is that being obese is unhealthy, costly, and an addiction (in most cases), not a disability.
When did I ever claim being obese was a disability? If anything, I've been arguing that being obese isn't the restriction you make it out to be.

Personally I think addictions are the signs of a weak character, nothing more, hence why people smoke, do drugs excessively etc.
Not only personally but in every sense possible, I think how a person treats others reduces those "signs" to minuscule importance in determining someone's character.

Fat guy runs into a burning building and saves a bunch of kids--does he have a weak character?

Fat chick devotes her life curing spina bifida, showing the self-discipline to develop her mind to the level of a research scientiest--does she have a weak character?

I think someone who concentrates so much on another person's physical characteristics that they consider an addiction to food to be such a determinative sign of a weak character they don't have to ask about any other aspect of that person before concluding something negative about them has a poor character themselves.

Give me kind, industrious, magnanimous fat smokers who like to wake and bake over people like you any day! I consider their health care costs money well spent--your health care costs?

I'd rather supersize my McDonald's order with that money ;-D