Poll: Philosophy: Important or a Waste of Time?

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Hey guys. I have to take a Philosophy class this year, so I've been reading the required book over the summer, and OH MY GOD IS THIS THE STUPIDEST SUBJECT EVER!

See, I'm a very hard sciences kind of guy, so reading about dead Greeks' abstract theories on trivial bullshit (a lot of which have been proven false by modern science) seems like a complete waste of time to me. Why bother with high concept ideas that can't be proven and are inapplicable to real life?

What do you guys think about the subject? Are there any philosophy aficionados out there that can teach me the error of my ignorant ways?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I mean philosophy as in the academic subject as it currently exists, not the general school of thought.

 

[Zantos]

It's quite a nice way to get people to think about problems from other perspectives, but as another who prefers his sciences I really didn't like it. We were looking at the philosophy of physics, and I couldn't stand the way that the "The theory agrees very well with experiment, so it's a good theory" argument doesn't hold it's weight any more. It's interesting enough and teaches some good skills, but I don't think anyone should ever be forced to do it.

 

[Kae]

I think it's fairly interesting, not really my cup of tea but I think we'd be nothing without it since hard science wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Philosophy or need I remind you tha Physics started as an specialized Philosophy?

 

[BrassButtons]

Some philosophy is crap, true--but the same can be said for some discredited ideas in science. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth learning about.

Why bother with high concept ideas that can't be proven and are inapplicable to real life?

See, this is a philosophical statement. When you make judgements about things, you are applying a philosophy. Science uses philosophy as well (for instance, the idea that reality is knowable and that we are not all heads in jars is part of science's philosophy).

Philosophy is the foundation for other avenues of thought. So I really wouldn't call it a waste of time.

 

[WaReloaded]

Nowadays, it's difficult to compare modern Philosophy to modern Science because there has been such a wealth of knowledge that we've acquired over the last few centuries, even when Descartes was one of the top philosophical and mathematical minds of the world, science was still primitive, we still only relied on our senses and thoughts to answer the fundamental questions of nature and reality as there was nothing else to suggest otherwise.

The majority of modern Philosophy is centred on morals and ethics because of Science replacing Philosophy as a means of acquiring this fundamental knowledge, Physics has changed the way we examine and answer problems, we can no longer just use sense-knowledge to answer the questions that we're presented.

Peter Singer is a brilliant, Australian philosopher of ethics, his views aren't for everyone but they're interesting nevertheless, check him out. The trick to enjoying modern Philosophy (and older Philosophy) is to find philosophers that attempt to answer the questions you want answered, you'll often find that their views and the way they've come to a conclusion is absolutely brilliant.

 

[Vault101]

all I know about philisy that doesnt it teach you hwo to argue better? like the "strawman" and "false dychotimy" type things?

 

[RagnarokHybrid]

I feel like philosophy is more important from an individual standpoint. Therefore, I don't think people should be forced to learn it. However, at some point everyone contemplates their and humanity's purpose. The latter seems pointless but the former makes life worth living if the individual can find or contrive some sort of answer.

 

[Dinwatr]

Philosophy as such is inescapable. Saying philosophy is irrelevant is like saying your SKIN is irrelevant--you literally cannot live without it. Most people simply accept whatever happens to enter their brains, and thus don't have any sense of their own philosophy; that's why most don't see philosophy as anything important. But five minutes of thought will show that it is. We all must make choices, every day. Do we eat or not? If so, what? Should I marry this woman? Should I steal this bread or not? These are all ethical questions--and ethics is a school of philosophy. Specifically, it's where the rubber hits the road, where abstract principles become practical action. Those abstract principles are metaphysics--what kind of universe do we live in? Is it intelligible or not? The next logical question is "How do we know?", which is epistomology.

As a hard-science guy myself, I can attest to the value of a firmly rooted understanding of epistemology. Science IS epistomology--it is a specific method of learning about the world. To say that you're a hard-science person and that philosophy is irrelevant is a contradiction; it's like saying "I love Ford F-150s! It's the best car ever! But all pick-ups suck and should be destroyed."

 

[Damien Black]

Philosophy as such is inescapable. Saying philosophy is irrelevant is like saying your SKIN is irrelevant--you literally cannot live without it. Most people simply accept whatever happens to enter their brains, and thus don't have any sense of their own philosophy; that's why most don't see philosophy as anything important. But five minutes of thought will show that it is. We all must make choices, every day. Do we eat or not? If so, what? Should I marry this woman? Should I steal this bread or not? These are all ethical questions--and ethics is a school of philosophy. Specifically, it's where the rubber hits the road, where abstract principles become practical action. Those abstract principles are metaphysics--what kind of universe do we live in? Is it intelligible or not? The next logical question is "How do we know?", which is epistomology.

As a hard-science guy myself, I can attest to the value of a firmly rooted understanding of epistemology. Science IS epistomology--it is a specific method of learning about the world. To say that you're a hard-science person and that philosophy is irrelevant is a contradiction; it's like saying "I love Ford F-150s! It's the best car ever! But all pick-ups suck and should be destroyed."

This, so much this.

Philosophy is the reason we have science, math, and pretty much every other academic field. The reason we have the scientific method and the current cultural supremacy of reason? Philosophy. Entire libraries have been written on the subject... Even the highest sciences are still primarily natural philosophy.

Philosophy is the way and reason each of us think... even ancient philosophy is so engrained in our societal ethics and methods of thought as to be inextricable.

 

[rabidmidget]

Is relevant to everything you do, every choice you make is dictated by your own ethical beliefs and how you guide your life is affected by your own existential beliefs. Hell, science is based upon a solid foundation of philosophy on the existence and pusuit of truth, the idea of logic and rational argument itself were born from philosophy.

The life that lives without philosophy is a hollow one.

 

[Stall]

If you are a hard science guy, then you should appreciate philosophy. Math is very much-so connected with philosophy, as at its core, mathematics is nothing beyond a pure expressions of logic (quite beautiful expressions at that). And since math is the queen of the sciences, then it is only natural that you should at the very least respect philosophy to some extent because of its close associations with mathematics. Without mathematics, then where would we be?

Even further, the whole concept of the scientific method stemmed from philosophical musings. So to some extent, science would not even exist if it weren't for philosophy.

Philosophy certainly isn't my thing, but I would never disrespect it, nor trivialize its existence. It's study is still very important to this day, as understanding logic and human nature will never become worthless.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Philosophy as such is inescapable. Saying philosophy is irrelevant is like saying your SKIN is irrelevant--you literally cannot live without it. Most people simply accept whatever happens to enter their brains, and thus don't have any sense of their own philosophy; that's why most don't see philosophy as anything important. But five minutes of thought will show that it is. We all must make choices, every day. Do we eat or not? If so, what? Should I marry this woman? Should I steal this bread or not? These are all ethical questions--and ethics is a school of philosophy. Specifically, it's where the rubber hits the road, where abstract principles become practical action. Those abstract principles are metaphysics--what kind of universe do we live in? Is it intelligible or not? The next logical question is "How do we know?", which is epistomology.

As a hard-science guy myself, I can attest to the value of a firmly rooted understanding of epistemology. Science IS epistomology--it is a specific method of learning about the world. To say that you're a hard-science person and that philosophy is irrelevant is a contradiction; it's like saying "I love Ford F-150s! It's the best car ever! But all pick-ups suck and should be destroyed."

I should probably clarify because philosophy can be put under a very, very large umbrella of things. I'm referring to philosophy as in the academic subject as it is currently studied and taught. Sure, you can attribute every decision and thought as a form of philosophy, but that's just arguing semantics (and it seems philosophy deals with semantics a bit too often). I could argue that humans make calculations in their heads all the time, but it doesn't make a College Algebra course any more worthwhile than it already is.

 

[That_Sneaky_Camper]

Philosophy is important because it encompasses the great curiosity of Mankind and his desire to become more in harmony with the universe around him. It states that you are a living, breathing, rational organism that realizes it has a place and a meaning in the universe and you want to determine what that place and that meaning is. Where do I come from? Why am I here? Where do I go from here? Philosophy is going to be a part of human nature so long as we have mysteries in the universe that need answering.

All of those natural sciences you talked about wouldn't have existed without philosophy to begin with. They came up with those answers to life's mysteries by observing the world around them, testing natural phenomenon and then forming a hypothesis and eventually answers. The scientific method comes from philosophical thinking, here is a mystery and we are going to put it to the test so that it is no longer a mystery but a fact.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Philosophy is extremely important. It structures the underlying and surrounding cultures, societies, interactions, leads to cultural trends, influences governmental policy, brings a society together on moral grounds, and even affects the kinds of media one observes. To say it's useless is to say that shared forms of communication, knowledge, experience, and behaviors are useless. There is a reason that all roads lead to Philosophy. Don't believe it? Try this out: Go to any Wikipedia page, and follow the first links into the next pages. Too lazy? This will do it for you: http://www.xefer.com/wikipedia Philosophy is crucial, friends.

 

[Dinwatr]

"I'm referring to philosophy as in the academic subject as it is currently studied and taught."

So either philosophy that has nothing to do with anything BY DEFINITION is irrelevant and a waste of time, or you're not really complaining about philosophy but rather teaching methods.

"Sure, you can attribute every decision and thought as a form of philosophy, but that's just arguing semantics"

No, it's not. Ethics drives your choices. Every time you decide "I should do X", that's an ethical decision. "Ethics" as a field of study is "how one should act". If your teacher hasn't taught you that, it's no wonder you're confused.

"I could argue that humans make calculations in their heads all the time, but it doesn't make a College Algebra course any more worthwhile than it already is."

I strongly suggest you talk to a civil engineer. I work with them. They have nightmares about screwing up calculations. And so should you. That "Collage Algebra course" you're so disparaging of is what keeps you alive. EVERY time you drive over a bridge, EVERY time you ride an elevator, EVERY time you turn the key in your car, EVERY time you WALK INTO A BUILDING you are relying on the skills and knowledge of engineers. And those equations are largely what you'd learn in a college course. As for SYNTHETIC algebra, if you're a hard science guy you should really reconsider your view of that subject. My wife's got a degree in physics--I can tell you from her experience, and from talking to physics professors, that synthetic algebra is fundamental to modern physics. And if you're more of the biological mindset, look up cladistics sometime. It's all matrix algebra.

 

[gritch]

Philosophy helps train the mind to think of problem in different ways - a skill very useful for the so called "hard sciences". One must remember the basis of science itself was created by Philosophers.

As a hard science guy myself (I'm a sophomore Chemistry major) I can to a degree understand your hesitation about philosophy, but after taking a course of it myself I found it quite enjoyable.

 

[Ftaghn To You Too]

It's one of the most important fields of study, equal to science. Science teaches no more than how shit is/was/will be. Philosophy is about human interaction and progress, as well as ethics. A mixture of both is how society moves forward.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

all I know about philisy that doesnt it teach you hwo to argue better? like the "strawman" and "false dychotimy" type things?

That's more rhetoric, than philosophy.

 

[spartan231490]

Philosophy is more important than science. Not by much, but by a little. It is the subject of self-examination and self-understanding. It is how we understand ourselves and others. While understanding the world around us is important, it is far more important that we learn to understand each-other.

yeah, it's hard to take a class in, but it's important.

 

[Tanakh]

Why bother with high concept ideas that can't be proven and are inapplicable to real life?

What do you guys think about the subject? Are there any philosophy aficionados out there that can teach me the error of my ignorant ways?

Quick facts that you (seem to) ignore:

- Science has never proven crap about real life. If anything the guys from math logic have proven that we, humans, haven't and can't prove crap about real life.

- All math is based on a discursive approach, just as philosophy (with the possible exception of the "real world useless" symbolic logic); all science based in logic and math is also discursive and proof less. The only difference is that stuff like math and philosophy takes inspiration on ideas and concepts as much as in the world we perceive, applied sciences take more inspiration (or used to take) from the world.

You ignorant SOB! Go and read your Russell and Poincare at least before saying such things!!! The second one work is very accessible, http://www.archive.org/details/foundationsscie01poingoog is particularly a nice easy read (provided you are familiar with the scientific scene of the early 20th century). The main difference between "hard science" and the rest is that the first abhors contradictions and kills em on sight, and the hippie sciences don't.

(also damn board ate my first post)