It occurred to me after I left this thread last night that perhaps we're seeing some kind of age/culture split here. I normally see a fairly even split in people who are sternly against physical punishment.
1. The people who were brutalised as children.. I can totally understand this, people DO take things to far.
2. The people who were raised under the idea of permissive parenting, primarily positive reinforcement, in cultures that increasingly view childhood and children idealistically.
Where as people I find most often defending it, like myself, received what we consider to be reasonable punishments in union with other forms of punishment. In settings where we were being raised to become responsible adults.
I also must say that yes, I do dismiss pretty much all research into this aspect of child-raising. Why? For the same reason I dismiss all research into the violent video game debate... on both sides.. it is not done by independent and unbiased people.
Research against physical discipline tends to come from paediatrics or psychologists... two groups of people who routinely see the affects of the worst forms of child abuse and this colours their perceptions of all discipline. Not to long ago child psychologists were promoting the idea that children should have ONLY positive reinforcement, only be rewarded and never punished.
If I were to go out and do research about the subject.. presuming I were qualified to do so.. my research should also be summarily dismissed. I am biased, I believe it is a good thing and no matter how hard I try that would colour my research.
Discipline and boundaries are a requirement of raising a decent adult. An overwhelming problem with the mindset of permissive parenting is that they think they are raising a child. They are not, they are raising an adult who happens to need to go through the stages of being a child and teenager to get there. The overriding goal of producing, and raising, another human being is to provide a functioning, useful and productive member of society.
I believe that the behaviour that I see, every day, in young adults.. and even those of my generation (30) is a direct result of lack of discipline and boundaries during growing up. Abusive behaviour, lack of direction, lack of purpose, excessive alcohol use, and a wide variety of other social ills can be, in my mind, laid firmly at the feet of parents who wished to be more friend than parent.
Are there other tools available to discipline a child? Of course, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take this one away. Physical force can teach things that children need to know that other forms of punishment cannot.. primarily that being hurt, hurts. There is, to my mind, no greater way to make a young child realise the consequences of his or her dangerous, of violent, actions than a light smack.
Children simply do not have then mental capacity to understand certain complex concepts. At a very young age all they get is Action - Consequence and only then if it is immediate. Reasoning with them simply confuses them.
1. The people who were brutalised as children.. I can totally understand this, people DO take things to far.
2. The people who were raised under the idea of permissive parenting, primarily positive reinforcement, in cultures that increasingly view childhood and children idealistically.
Where as people I find most often defending it, like myself, received what we consider to be reasonable punishments in union with other forms of punishment. In settings where we were being raised to become responsible adults.
I also must say that yes, I do dismiss pretty much all research into this aspect of child-raising. Why? For the same reason I dismiss all research into the violent video game debate... on both sides.. it is not done by independent and unbiased people.
Research against physical discipline tends to come from paediatrics or psychologists... two groups of people who routinely see the affects of the worst forms of child abuse and this colours their perceptions of all discipline. Not to long ago child psychologists were promoting the idea that children should have ONLY positive reinforcement, only be rewarded and never punished.
If I were to go out and do research about the subject.. presuming I were qualified to do so.. my research should also be summarily dismissed. I am biased, I believe it is a good thing and no matter how hard I try that would colour my research.
Discipline and boundaries are a requirement of raising a decent adult. An overwhelming problem with the mindset of permissive parenting is that they think they are raising a child. They are not, they are raising an adult who happens to need to go through the stages of being a child and teenager to get there. The overriding goal of producing, and raising, another human being is to provide a functioning, useful and productive member of society.
I believe that the behaviour that I see, every day, in young adults.. and even those of my generation (30) is a direct result of lack of discipline and boundaries during growing up. Abusive behaviour, lack of direction, lack of purpose, excessive alcohol use, and a wide variety of other social ills can be, in my mind, laid firmly at the feet of parents who wished to be more friend than parent.
Are there other tools available to discipline a child? Of course, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take this one away. Physical force can teach things that children need to know that other forms of punishment cannot.. primarily that being hurt, hurts. There is, to my mind, no greater way to make a young child realise the consequences of his or her dangerous, of violent, actions than a light smack.
Children simply do not have then mental capacity to understand certain complex concepts. At a very young age all they get is Action - Consequence and only then if it is immediate. Reasoning with them simply confuses them.
