No. Under no fucking circumstances should you be allowed to do to a minor what is illegal to do to an adult.
I agree to a point.Tydanubus said:Quoted for truth, end of thread! *Looks at poll* Oh dear. I guess people don't want things like scientific evidence to keep them from smacking their kids. I has a sad.Rblade said:it has been scientifically proven that physical punishment has no positive reinforcing effect. It only makes the child fear punishment and thus be sneaky about it.
it also has a negative impact on how the child learns conflicts are to be resolved
We aren't talking about a Rodney King beating, We are talking about disciplining a child who has misbehaved or outright done harm to someone or something.Orpheus III said:No. Under no fucking circumstances should you be allowed to do to a minor what is illegal to do to an adult.
What if they are not old enough to think "I will not do this, because this is wrong" and they act out or do something that is dangerous to themselves or others? How would they learn what to stay away from or what is innapropriate if they cannot reason?orangeban said:No, because children should not think, "I will not do this or I will be punished."
They should think, "I will not do this, because this is wrong."
So? I can't hit another adult with a belt on the hand or anything, it doesn't matter how "severe" the punishment is, it'd be illegal to do so to another adult. What's illegal is illegal, and you shouldn't do what is illegal.Treaos Serrare said:We aren't talking about a Rodney King beating, We are talking about disciplining a child who has misbehaved or outright done harm to someone or something.Orpheus III said:No. Under no fucking circumstances should you be allowed to do to a minor what is illegal to do to an adult.
^This.Treaos Serrare said:We aren't talking about a Rodney King beating, We are talking about disciplining a child who has misbehaved or outright done harm to someone or something.Orpheus III said:No. Under no fucking circumstances should you be allowed to do to a minor what is illegal to do to an adult.
and no it has not been "scientifically proven" that physical discipline has no effect, anything that says otherwise is bullshit and lies, if i tell you not to take a cookie and you do then the ensuing spanking with a belt, hand or flyswatter handle will discourage you from disobeying me again THAT is a proven fact. it worked for centuries, now all of a sudden it doesn't? that's bull shit and everyone knows it's bullshit
Well, obviously they did not understand what they were doing was wrong. If you leave me in a room with a button and I press the button and you rush in and shout at me for it despite giving me no reason to think pressing the button was wrong, I've done nothing wrong. If a child does something because they do not understand not to do it, it's cruel to punish them, they need taught that what they have done is wrong. And children don't need to understand the details of human morality to do this, they simply need to think, "Mummy/Daddy/Whoever doesn't want me to do this because it might hurt me/someone else." which is not difficult to grasp.The Lesbian Flower said:What if they are not old enough to think "I will not do this, because this is wrong" and they act out or do something that is dangerous to themselves or others? How would they learn what to stay away from or what is innapropriate if they cannot reason?orangeban said:No, because children should not think, "I will not do this or I will be punished."
They should think, "I will not do this, because this is wrong."
I can see that. But then you could get into the situation of "they know, they just don't care". So what if a child knew something was wrong/dangerous but didn't care and kept doing it? How would we teach them they CANNOT keep doing what they've been doing if they don't listen to what we say?orangeban said:Well, obviously they did not understand what they were doing was wrong. If you leave me in a room with a button and I press the button and you rush in and shout at me for it despite giving me no reason to think pressing the button was wrong, I've done nothing wrong. If a child does something because they do not understand not to do it, it's cruel to punish them, they need taught that what they have done is wrong. And children don't need to understand the details of human morality to do this, they simply need to think, "Mummy/Daddy/Whoever doesn't want me to do this because it might hurt me/someone else." which is not difficult to grasp.The Lesbian Flower said:What if they are not old enough to think "I will not do this, because this is wrong" and they act out or do something that is dangerous to themselves or others? How would they learn what to stay away from or what is innapropriate if they cannot reason?orangeban said:No, because children should not think, "I will not do this or I will be punished."
They should think, "I will not do this, because this is wrong."
If a child tries to stick their finger in an electric socket and you stop them, do you then hit them? Of course not, they didn't understand they were in the wrong, instead you educate them about electric sockets. Do they same for other things.
Well, you just have to try to explain.The Lesbian Flower said:I can see that. But then you could get into the situation of "they know, they just don't care". So what if a child knew something was wrong/dangerous but didn't care and kept doing it? How would we teach them they CANNOT keep doing what they've been doing if they don't listen to what we say?orangeban said:Well, obviously they did not understand what they were doing was wrong. If you leave me in a room with a button and I press the button and you rush in and shout at me for it despite giving me no reason to think pressing the button was wrong, I've done nothing wrong. If a child does something because they do not understand not to do it, it's cruel to punish them, they need taught that what they have done is wrong. And children don't need to understand the details of human morality to do this, they simply need to think, "Mummy/Daddy/Whoever doesn't want me to do this because it might hurt me/someone else." which is not difficult to grasp.The Lesbian Flower said:What if they are not old enough to think "I will not do this, because this is wrong" and they act out or do something that is dangerous to themselves or others? How would they learn what to stay away from or what is innapropriate if they cannot reason?orangeban said:No, because children should not think, "I will not do this or I will be punished."
They should think, "I will not do this, because this is wrong."
If a child tries to stick their finger in an electric socket and you stop them, do you then hit them? Of course not, they didn't understand they were in the wrong, instead you educate them about electric sockets. Do they same for other things.
Also, I have stuck stuff in the electrical socket xD It was only after my parents told me not to and I had never even thought about it previously. Getting electrical burns taught me not to ever do it again.
time outs and "talking to them" Doesn't work and never will, at least pre 16, then it has the chance to work because the kid can reason, anytime before that you need to act on the baser instincts of the human animal such as pain= don't do that.vivaldiscool said:I just can't stand the arrogance of people who are proud that they hit their kids. Like "He was mouthing off to me so I smacked him, and ya know what? He never did it again." You fucking think? Kids aren't damn products, you don't just smack 'em until they start working properly. It's like unplugging your fridge cause it was making a buzzing noise, and declaring "Hey, I got it to stop buzzing!" Yeah, but now everything's rotten inside. Seriously, what kind of idiot just hits their kid?
So then what would you recommend?theblackcat33 said:I say no.
If a parent is only capable to dealing with a child by smacking them, they are unfit to have them.
I quite simply think that no use of force at all is required to train animals. Neither raising your voice to them, nor using some kind of implement to deter them. I trained all my animals using positive reinforcement only, and I'm quite proud that they are perfectly behaved. I am confident to leave them in the house alone if needed, and I never came home to find they did something they shouldn't have. I prefer this method because I feel it helps me develop a stronger bond with my cats and dog.JWAN said:We used mousetraps and a water spray bottle to teach our cat to stay off the countertops. It worked great. For our dog we trained them the same way. When we werent around the dog would raise all sorts of hell and we used rat traps on the sofas. When we were around we would make sure to raise our voices and generally a bop on the nose with a newspaper would help him understand that gnawing on shoes was wrong. Your assuming that beating an animal and using physical presence and a slight bit of force are the same thing.Nachtmahr said:Smacking, with or without force, a dog or a cat doesn't help teach them right from wrong.
And if it's wrong and pointless to do to an animal, it sure as hell is wrong to do it to a child.
For children, spanking works just fine, or at least it has for as long as children have played with matches in the garage or acted out in a store or restaurant.