Poll: Poll: How would you feel about the legalisation of ALL drugs (with some restrictions)?

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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(NOTE: In this theoretical scenario some restrictions would still apply. Some drugs would only be available on prescription, and all would carry an age limit, with health warnings being attached to the products sold. However, no drugs would be completely illegal.)

In the UK (I can't speak for anywhere else) there's been a bit of a kerfuffle in recent years over 'legal highs'. For those not in the know, these are legal, presumably relatively mild, drugs, that were seen until recently as a good way to get a buzz at a festival or in a club without anywhere near the same health risks as, say, cocaine or ecstasy. However, when deaths started being linked to some of these drugs, the most recent of which being Benzo Fury, a lot of people started calling for their legal status to be reevaluated. The government, ever eager to appeal to public opinion, even went against the recommendations of their own Specialist Health Adviser in one of these cases to reclassify a drug as illegal, then firing him when he publicly dissented. While there's no doubt that all substances that are designed to alter your body's chemistry in some way will carry some level of risk to your health, all this fuss got me thinking...

Would it really be so bad to just make all drugs legal?

When I first asked myself this question I envisioned apocalyptic scenes of society implosion, with everyone's kids addicted to smack, and people getting mowed down on the roads every day because the driver was tripping balls. However, now I'm not so sure. In fact, I now think the presumed downsides to legalising drugs are vastly overestimated by many, and that their change in status would actually significantly improve things overall.

We already have some very addictive and very harmful drugs available with relatively little restrictions (alcohol and tobacco predominantly) that are only legal today because they were discovered, and became ingrained in our culture long before the concept of drugs being harmful occurred to us. If they were discovered today you bet these two would be Class B illegal at least. I'm willing to bet even caffeine would be a Class C. Yet, despite nicotine being so potently addictive, were not all hooked on cigarettes, far from it. Nor are we all waiting for a liver transplant due to alcoholism. Even in the cases of the people that are, we blame the idiots who shovel excessive amounts of this stuff into their bodies despite how widely known the health implications are, not the substances or the people who sell them. Why would this be any different for, say, meth? So long as it carries an age limit of 18, can only be sold at licensed premises, and the information of just what kind of harm this stuff can do to you is widely known and readily available, then why is this not just another judgement call on the part of the person taking it? I think it's foolish to assume that we'd all just instantly start getting high on anything and everything so long as it was legal.

Besides, what good has outright banning a substance ever really done? It was shown, was it not, in the US back almost a century ago now that prohibition just doesn't work,and yet we are still following that same principle today. The issue of serious drug addiction, and it's consequences, particularly among young people, is consistently a major problem. If people are just going to do it anyway, then what was the point of banning it. So you can let organised crime handle the supply, which then funds half of the violent crime in places like Mexico, and the stuff gets cut with rat poison and asbestos for the sake of a quick profit? So addicts are forced to steal to fund their habit? So our prison system can get clogged up with youngsters doing time for cannabis possession, only to get hooked on the harder stuff inside and forced to deal to survive, all coming together to form this perpetuating cycle of chaos and suffering? What?

I also know from people who have had problems with drugs before, that much of the motivation to first take something dangerous or addictive enough to be classified as Class C or above in the UK (before you get hooked obviously), is the idea of it being rebellious, one of the last taboo's we have. The fact that it is illegal is half the bloody reason why people start doing it in the first place. You take away that motivation, make drug orderly and mundane, and the idea of rolling that spliff or snorting that line just won't seem all that fun anymore for your average rebellious teen. We might even see the phenomenon of drug use actually going down as the result of legalisation.

So here we have a list of possible pros for legalisation as I see it:

- Prison overcrowding vanishes.
- Organised crime as we know it plummets.
- Crime as a means to fund drug habits drops dramatically.
- Boost to the economy due to drug sales and taxation.
- Drugs made safer. No longer cut with poisonous substances. Users properly tracked by the system, therefore help (if needed) available earlier. Drop in spread of diseases from needle sharing.
- Possible drop in drug use from lack of taboo nature, clearer and more wide reaching health warnings, as well as proper regulation.

That's a lot of benefits there, and I think that the possible downsides (increased cases of addiction and health problems, leading to more strain on the health service etc.) would be, if not entirely unfounded, vastly less serious than many would predict.

I hope this isn't a TL;DR scenario, it's just there are a lot of points that I wanted to make. So anyway, am I on to something here, or am I talking out of my arse? You decide. :)
 

octafish

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Apr 23, 2010
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I just want point out another benefit to making opiates legal. You make it very difficult for terrorist groups to raise money. Think what it would do for Mexico alone. Street crime drops significantly too because if junkies can get cheap clean junk they don't need to rip off houses and rob people. I don't support the legalization of amphetamines though, while junkies are mostly harmless as long as they get their junk, speed freaks are dangerous at all times.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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octafish said:
I just want point out another benefit to making opiates legal. You make it very difficult for terrorist groups to raise money. Think what it would do for Mexico alone. Street crime drops significantly too because if junkies can get cheap clean junk they don't need to rip off houses and rob people. I don't support the legalization of amphetamines though, while junkies are mostly harmless as long as they get their junk, speed freaks are dangerous at all times.
Yeah, I refer to the Mexico situation more as organised crime rather than terrorism, but I suppose mass murderers are mass murderers no matter the motivation, and the legalisation of hard drugs (particularly in the US but also in Eurpoe) would pretty much kill the root of one of the most violent crime waves history has ever seen.
 

octafish

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
octafish said:
I just want point out another benefit to making opiates legal. You make it very difficult for terrorist groups to raise money. Think what it would do for Mexico alone. Street crime drops significantly too because if junkies can get cheap clean junk they don't need to rip off houses and rob people. I don't support the legalization of amphetamines though, while junkies are mostly harmless as long as they get their junk, speed freaks are dangerous at all times.
Yeah, I refer to the Mexico situation more as organised crime rather than terrorism, but I suppose mass murderers are mass murderers no matter the motivation, and the legalisation of hard drugs (particularly in the US but also in Eurpoe) would pretty much kill the root of one of the most violent crime waves history has ever seen.
Not just Mexico though, a hell of a lot of smack comes out of Afghanistan. The heroin trade funds terrorists the world over. The Taliban learnt a whole lot from the CIA.
 

Corax_1990

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Why not? People use and abuse them anyway. Making them government controlled would allow health professionals to monitor peoples use, eliminate the stuff that sends people into psychotic rampages or makes them very sick, and would instantly take billions from the coffers of organized crime and put them in the governments bank account.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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octafish said:
NinjaDeathSlap said:
octafish said:
I just want point out another benefit to making opiates legal. You make it very difficult for terrorist groups to raise money. Think what it would do for Mexico alone. Street crime drops significantly too because if junkies can get cheap clean junk they don't need to rip off houses and rob people. I don't support the legalization of amphetamines though, while junkies are mostly harmless as long as they get their junk, speed freaks are dangerous at all times.
Yeah, I refer to the Mexico situation more as organised crime rather than terrorism, but I suppose mass murderers are mass murderers no matter the motivation, and the legalisation of hard drugs (particularly in the US but also in Eurpoe) would pretty much kill the root of one of the most violent crime waves history has ever seen.
Not just Mexico though, a hell of a lot of smack comes out of Afghanistan. The heroin trade funds terrorists the world over. The Taliban learnt a whole lot from the CIA.
I wanted to mention Afghanistan, but the OP was getting long as it was. Funny thing is, one of the reasons we went was to cut off the heroin supply at the source, and now, 11 years and tens of thousands of lives on all sides later, the poppy fields have never been doing better.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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A lot of the stuff that kills people in illegal drugs is the stuff it's mixed with to make up the weight.

I'm not saying the original drug itself isn't dangerous, because it is, but if this stuff was as heavily regulated as pharmaceuticals and alcohol, death rates would be cut considerably.
 

Kae

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Yeah, I've been saying that for a while, not to mention [small](Here in México)[/small] since the organized crime in general would deteriorate we wouldn't have to waste so many resources on that and maybe could be focused in more important stuff, like the fact that there are way too many communities with a lack of water, seriously parts of one of the largest cities in the world don't have access to water, which is ridiculous.
Hell just the fact that violence would become more abnormal would be refreshing, it's disturbing to see how many little kids say they want to be drug lords when they grow up, and that nobody really cares anymore when somebody gets killed, even if it was a completely innocent bystander that got caught in the crossfire, sure it would bring some problems, but the pros vastly outweigh the cons, I'm just sick of it, though immediately we have more pressing problems like not ending up like Venezuela...
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Kaleion said:
Yeah, I've been saying that for a while, not to mention [small](Here in México)[/small] since the organized crime in general would deteriorate we wouldn't have to waste so many resources on that and maybe could be focused in more important stuff, like the fact that there are way too many communities with a lack of water, seriously parts of one of the largest cities in the world don't have access to water, which is ridiculous.
Hell just the fact that violence would become more abnormal would be refreshing, it's disturbing to see how many little kids say they want to be drug lords when they grow up, and that nobody really cares anymore when somebody gets killed, even if it was a completely innocent bystander that got caught in the crossfire, sure it would bring some problems, but the pros vastly outweigh the cons, I'm just sick of it, though immediately we have more pressing problems like not ending up like Venezuela...
What happened to Venezuela that's so much worse than what's going on in Mexico right now?
 

Unsilenced

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It's a conclusion that I've been (rather reluctantly) drawn towards recently. It's hard to look at something as insanely destructive as meth and think it should be legal, but at the same time, how can we draw a line? How can we say that here you have control over your body and here you don't? We can't quantify these things. The only way to do it is arbitrarily.
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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No because it will lead to the zombie apocalypse. You've seen the shit going on in Florida right? Now imagine that everywhere and more common.

I'm all for fully legalizing marijuana though. It really isn't that bad. Not good for you but simply being an unhealthy eater is probably worse than occasionally smoking pot.
 

VladG

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
So here we have a list of possible pros for legalisation as I see it:

- Prison overcrowding vanishes.
- Organised crime as we know it plummets.
- Crime as a means to fund drug habits drops dramatically.
- Boost to the economy due to drug sales and taxation.
- Drugs made safer. No longer cut with poisonous substances. Users properly tracked by the system, therefore help (if needed) available earlier. Drop in spread of diseases from needle sharing.
- Possible drop in drug use from lack of taboo nature, clearer and more wide reaching health warnings, as well as proper regulation.
All of these are right on the money.

First off legalizing drugs wouldn't lead to a junkie singularity where every kid in the country is doped out of his mind. All it takes is a little education on the matter and proper enforcement on the age limit. I give the Netherlands as an example. Soft drugs are not illegal and can be purchased easily and freely (especially in Amsterdam), but from everything I know locals are rarely buyers. In general cannabis use is seen pretty poorly and most people don't do it, or do it rarely (locals feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Secondly you'd hopefully eradicate the plague that is "legal" drugs. Around here for the past few years products very ostensibly marketed as "bath salts" or other such crap with big labels reading "100% not drugs, don't use to get high, you certainly shouldn't smoke/snort this stuff to achieve a strong high" (slightly paraphrasing, but you get the gist of it) that constantly have their chemical ingredients changed so that they are always 1 step ahead from being outlawed and don't actually contain any expressly forbidden substances are being sold in "herbal shops", commonly consumed by youths (and I'm talking 12-16 year old here, not legal 18+ adults that can do whatever the fuck they want to themselves). What's even worse is that lots of kids have died because of them. Heart attacks, strokes, completely fried kidneys, that sort of stuff, and not after years of abuse either.
 

Kae

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
What happened to Venezuela that's so much worse than what's going on in Mexico right now?
To keep it simple and short, Hugo Chávez or Totalitarian Dictatorship, one of our candidates is like that guy.
 

VladG

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Unsilenced said:
It's a conclusion that I've been (rather reluctantly) drawn towards recently. It's hard to look at something as insanely destructive as meth and think it should be legal, but at the same time, how can we draw a line? How can we say that here you have control over your body and here you don't? We can't quantify these things. The only way to do it is arbitrarily.
Meth is so insanely destructive because of the chemical impurities present when you cook the stuff in a bucket with god knows what chemicals you can more or less legally get your hands on.

That's not to say pure stuff isn't bad, it still causes high neurotoxicity indirectly by spamming your brain with dopamine and even worse it can lead to violent psychosis, but it's nowhere near as bad as the adulterated crap you buy off the street.

Overall, while meth is a terrible thing, legalizing and controlling it is better than having it unchecked all over the place. It would also help you monitor users.
 

Hat Man

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Yes, except for drugs that are either A) little more then poison and/or outright lethal and B) drugs where people under the effect of them makes them a danger to others.

There are enough drunk drives on the street, the last thing I want if for there to be even more impaired drivers impaired by a far greater range of things. They want to do drugs? Fine, but I don't want my life put in danger by their choice.
 

Fluse

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As i see it, there is one massive problem with the legalisation of hard drugs, atleast in Denmark where we have a Tax funded social velfare system, that pays for all healthcare, AND support those unable to work.

So while i belive people should be alowed to fuck themself up on chemicals if thats what they want, i dont wanna have to pay for it! I dont wanna give them a portion of our tax income every month cuz they are unable to hold a job, nor do i want to pay for all the health problems that can arise as a result.
 

Rednog

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I'm going to say no, just on the basis that people already can't handle their damn highs with things like alcohol, give them something even harder to control like coke or the various other hard drugs you might just have a bigger problem on your hands.
You cite money going in from the government control, but you fail to realize the time/money it would take to actually enforce control, it's one thing to deal with someone who is drunk and stumbling around then it is dealing with someone who is amped up on Ecstasy or cocaine. And the whole getting the info out there about each drug costs resources.
Even then how do you deal out drugs? Someone walks into a bar and orders some weed or heroin, how do you measure when someone has had enough it's hard enough with alcohol and now toss in people mixing stuff, how do you establish legal limits, etc.
It's one thing to say ok maybe we can handle legalizing something like weed, but to green light everything would be a nightmare.
 

VladG

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Hat Man said:
Yes, except for drugs that are either A) little more then poison and/or outright lethal and B) drugs where people under the effect of them makes them a danger to others.

There are enough drunk drives on the street, the last thing I want if for there to be even more impaired drivers impaired by a far greater range of things. They want to do drugs? Fine, but I don't want my life put in danger by their choice.
Nothing wrong with A), make sure you educate the people, make sure they are fully aware of the risks. If they want to do it anyway, it's a good form of population control and a mild pruning of the genetic tree.

B) however is the real issue. Hurt yourself all you want if you're doing it in good knowledge, but don't hurt others. This is till a case FOR legalizing and especially CONTROLLING dangerous drugs. They are out there, there is nothing you can realistically do about that. You will never stop illegal trading. But if you offer a legal alternative that is safer, cheaper (because you can tax the shit out of it and still beat illegal dealers on price) you entice a lot of the users. Once you do that, you can monitor and control them.
 

VladG

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Rednog said:
I'm going to say no, just on the basis that people already can't handle their damn highs with things like alcohol, give them something even harder to control like coke or the various other hard drugs you might just have a bigger problem on your hands.
You cite money going in from the government control, but you fail to realize the time/money it would take to actually enforce control, it's one thing to deal with someone who is drunk and stumbling around then it is dealing with someone who is amped up on Ecstasy or cocaine. And the whole getting the info out there about each drug costs resources.
Even then how do you deal out drugs? Someone walks into a bar and orders some weed or heroin, how do you measure when someone has had enough it's hard enough with alcohol and now toss in people mixing stuff, how do you establish legal limits, etc.
It's one thing to say ok maybe we can handle legalizing something like weed, but to green light everything would be a nightmare.
Money is already going into enforcing it, it goes to the law officials that try to stop it. Being able to tax drugs however would actually bring in money -or at least considerably lower the current expense-(you'd have a lower level of law enforcement expense simply because you'd be able to out-price illegal drug dealers, simple rule of capitalism, you'd be able to offer a better, cheaper service)

And what do you think is better? Having people do drugs in a controlled environment where you can limit the damage they might do?

Or have them doing worse impure versions of the same drugs without any control, regulation or knowledge?