Poll: rape worse than murder?

MonsterCrit

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It's not that there's so much a leniency towards rape... it's just a bit trickier to prove and more emotionally charged. It's also not a fair crime. Meaning it typically only applies to one gender. I.e. Check out the nightmare of what it means to be a Man Raped by a woman. Yeah it happens.

There's also the simple truth. when someone is raped, their lives change, they can move on, they can move forward they can make it be a footnote to their lives rather than the highlight. When someone is murdered... That's it. They are gone. You have left a gaping hole in the hearts and lives of everyone who loved them, you have removed a human consciousness from existence, forever.
 

WhiteNachos

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Risingblade said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
Risingblade said:
Depends, you could justify murder in some way. Rape on the other hand...not so much if at all. I don't know why but rape just seems crueler to me, sure they're still alive but it's still a horrible horrible thing to do to a person.
People who say that you can justify murder don't understand what murder is. Murder isn't killing someone, murder is illegally killing someone without justification.

If you kill someone in the heat of passion it's not murder, it's manslaughter. If you kill someone in the defense of yourself or others it's not murder it's self defense. Murder can't be justified because to be murder it has to be unjustifiable, that's what makes it murder.
That would be true if we were talking purely from a legal standpoint. However if you look at the TC's example, killing someone out of revenge for killing a loved one, some people would actually find that justifiable. Is it still murder? Yes but some people can morally justify it.
If it's something that they want to do, there's no end to what people can morally justify to themselves. See any religious extremist ever.
 

WhiteNachos

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Quick question, if rape is supposed to be worse than death, why don't all rape victims kill themselves?

Yeah some of them are religious and believe suicide is a sin, but not all of them, and the ones that don't still don't kill themselves all the time.
 

WhiteNachos

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Lil devils x said:
This would depend. Rape is a form of torture, death is the end.
What about rape where the victim is unconscious and may not even realize they've been raped? Is that still torture?
 
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To the Pain.

Princess Bride Fans will know what I'm talking about.

Theist or Atheist, Death is the end of your worldly time. If you're Theist, different plan of reasoning. If you're Atheist, Oblivion.

Mainly the point is this... You're not around any more. It's not that you don't care, it's that you can't care. Whether you were sad at your last moments, happy, hungry, angry, humming a tune... That's done. it's done forever. How you feel now can't compare to how you feel later because you will not have the capacity to even recognize feeling, let alone actually exist.

Back to my first thought, there's something about victimhood.

All of my non-black friends are hyping up these police shootings to impossible levels. Any time I see a cop, I wonder if this is it. Will I get off with a beating, or a shot to the head. Because I happened to be born a certain way and police ideals of what people of that persuasion are like, I have a target over my head at all times. I never allow myself to lose my control, I never relax when I'm outside, I make sure I never get even near a person if I can help it. Because I know one finger pointed to me and someone yelling "HE DID IT" is all it will take for my life as a free and somewhat healthy man to end.

Living in constant fear is stressful. That's where I'm getting at. Yes, I can take more guff than most people, but not by choice. I can suffer the slings and arrows. But I'm forced to in order to continue a semi-messed up life because of stereotypes. Never what I did. Just stereotypes.

So I get those who are raped who live in fear. People here talk about getting stronger from it. We're not built the same. Maybe you can totally get stronger from it. I commend you. Not everyone can. Just not every black man lives in fear of what will happen to them as cops pull behind them, not everyone will handle stress exactly as you think they should.

Death? There's nothing to handle. There's no more you to care. Anything that's a traumatic event that you can walk away from, there is the possibility of living with the ramifications from it for years on end. A living death, as you're not really living, you're just going through the motions. and that's tragic.
 

Jamieson 90

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There's a really easy way to sort this out.

Someone puts a gun to your head and says "Take off your pants and bend over or I'm going to kill you." They do this whilst unzipping their own trousers making it obvious what they intend to do.

How many of you refuse knowing you're going to die?

You see, rape is a terrible thing, a truly horrible thing. But death is worse, much much worse, and when confronted with death, don't ever underestimate a human's drive for survival. That absolute instinct to do anything to ensure you don't die.

We can all say in the comfort and safety of our homes that rape is much worse, that we'd rather die than be subjected to such a terrible and horrific thing, but in the moment very few if any would go through with it.

Rape is a horrific thing that can ruin your life, sometimes.

Death will end your life, always.
 

runic knight

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So which is worse, the taking of your very life, or the taking of sexual action towards you against your will? Seems kinda obvious murder is the worse of the two as a general stance (individual opinions may vary). I'll ignore the unasked questions regarding what sort of murder and what sort of definition of rape and assume both are the premeditated and violent kind for the sake of this post. Otherwise you could end up with some odd comparison such as someone sleeping with another while drunk (which has been defined by some as lacking proper consent, thus rape) compared to a Saw-style torture murder. So going to keep it simple as can.
It is asking if a permanent end of life is worse then a temporary traumatic experience. Yes, the experience can leave deep scars in the memory, but that is still better then no more life. Even a hard life allows chance for growth, overcoming, or leaving a positive impact on the world to remember you by, Death is final.
 

Lightknight

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Abbyka said:
Lightknight said:
Yes I would rather be murdered. I am legit terrified of being raped. I honestly do not think I could ever recover from it. I've already had things happen to me in my past I am still not over(abusive relationship) that make moving on difficult. Rape would be enough to send me over the edge. It wouldn't "make me stronger", it would drive me insane. Not everyone has the ability to get stronger and move on. Not everyone is going to recover. Yeah, there are some people who are able to, and that is amazing. But most victims are traumatized their entire life and some really would prefer death. The emotions involved are horrible. Imagine being skinned alive and being left to suffer. That is what it is like in an emotional sense. Like I said, I know some rape victims, and many of them sometimes do feel like death would have been less painful. They're trying to move on but the wounds reopen. This is a form of torture to me. At least death ends that pain. Like it or not you're going to encounter people who don't like having to "move on" and do not have the strength required to. At least one of the people I know said it's like constantly walking on broken glass barefoot, but you have to keep going because there's no choice. Some days are better than others, obviously, but there is always more broken glass ahead.
Do you believe that most victims are able to live normal healthy lives afterwards or that most victims aren't?

From what little I've seen, far more move on with their lives and get as far past it as they can.

But with murder there is no choice, no option to go on. With rape, the option is always there, as macabre as it sounds.

At the risk of being a total ass, do you honestly believe that person? That their lives are just one long constant reminder of a single event in their lives and it is as sharp as broken glass? I can't imagine what kind of an invasion of privacy it is, but that sounds a bit more dramatic than I'd expect. Was the individual recently assaulted or had it been a significant time ago? The individuals I've spoken to weren't anywhere close to being that extreme about it. But I'm sure it impacts different people in different ways.

While it's absolutely terrible. I think it's more important to establish that life afterwards is entirely viable. It is not likely to be anything like that but there will be psychological issues that will need to be addressed. A message of hope is vital here. You are terrified of it happening and it has not happened. The time is now to learn that people survive these things and move on the vast majority of the time.

I am extremely glad that the 1 in 5 women statistic ended up being false.

Have you ever experienced a traumatic event? Do you think about it all the time? Probably not? You probably go days, weeks, months without considering it. Then, every now and then it spikes and you have to deal with those emotions whether you want to or not. But then it subsides and you have life again. That, I understand.
 

OldNewNewOld

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If I was forced to pick getting raped or getting murdered, I would pick getting raped... so, murder?

bartholen said:
Murder can be committed in the heat of the moment. Rape can't.
Wrong. That's not murder, that's manslaughter.
bartholen said:
Once you've been murdered, you can't be murdered again. Not so for rape.
Yeah, because your dead. By your logic hitting your toe on the night table is worse than murder since you can do it again, but you can't get murdered again.
bartholen said:
Murder can be committed in seconds, rape can't.
And? The duration of the act means little. If I rob a bank in 5 minues is it somehow less of a crime than if I took 20 minutes for it? Or to keep it a bit more on topic, I can take several hours to murder someone while rape can last as little as a minute.
bartholen said:
Rape is used to subdue, break and control a person. Murder isn't.
I'm sorry, what?
Murder is basically THE ultimate control over a person. You literally control his life. Also no, it's not inherently used to subdue, break and control a person. It's used to fulfill your desires. Those things are a rather bad side effect.
bartholen said:
Murder can be sudden and without pain and suffering. Rape can't.
Yes it can.
 

Seanfall

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Why is there no 'Both are equally horrible' option? Either act is terrible. To murder someone is to take away a life, everything they were, are or could be is gone forever. It's an act that...well like a mirror being shattered the cracks spread out from the point of impact. (the victim) and hurts others. The Loved ones that person left behind, friends it alters everyone evolved.

Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.

On either crime, it is not the Victim's fault. Nothing they did justifies the action against them. There is no 'asking for it' ever. I'm of the opinion that Rapists should suffer the same fate as Murderer's. Life Imprisonment.

Not pedos though. Those people you just hang and let em rot. :D
 

Lightknight

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Seanfall said:
Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.
It is a traumatic experience, but do you really think it is equivalent to "the mirror shattering"?

I'm not talking about whether or not it's actually terrible, it is. But do you think if given an option between a bullet to your head or a traumatic experience that is rape that you'd be indifferent between the two?

At least a rape victim gets to decide if they want to move forward from it.
 

Signa

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Just so everyone is aware, the last time this question was asked, I answered it flatly, and got put on probation in one strike with no chance of dismissal. The thread was locked too. Tread lightly.
 

chuckman1

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BathorysGraveland2 said:
I think it's worth making clear what sort of rape we're talking about, as there are various kinds. For example, an 18 year old who has sex with a 16 year old, even if they're in a consented relationship, is technically considered a form of rape. Often doctors or teachers who have sex with students, even if they're of a legal age of consent, is also considered rape. So is a sober person having sex with an intoxicated person. These scenarios, in my mind, aren't comparable whatsoever with forceable or blackmail rape.

Just an important distinction to consider, I think.
I meant violent forceful rape maybe I should have added that in the topic.
 

kissthebottle

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[Kira Must Die said:
]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.
Thank you. This. Very much. I don't think the two are even comparable at ALL. Maybe if you said "which is worse? Sexual assault or physical assault?" At least both of those aren't finite and are both types of assault. Not that the argument would be any better.

I actually have been raped. Obviously it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me and has messed me up in so many ways that still haunt me and effect me to this day. I can't say I would have rather been murdered, buuuuuuut again, moot point etc. I can't even begin to compare the two. And if I'm being frank I think it's kind of insulting, even in this vast super vast discussion of hypothetical scenarios to rape survivors (myself included), not that I think that was your intention, OP, but an oversight perhaps? I also don't think, or would hope to think no one is justifying rape if they choose murder as being a more heinous crime, for the record...I just think a discussion like this may unintentionally diminish the traumas/PTSD/experiences of rape survivors.

Again, I think physical violence and sexual violence are more comparable if you're trying to have a conducive discussion. Survivors of both live through their experiences, both can experience trauma and both can intersect.

Also

Shinkicker444 said:
I think rape victims need more support than they get though.
Thank you. This cannot be emphasized enough. People most definitely feel pity for murder victims and their loved ones (generally, not always). But rape survivors are often put under some shitty microscope if they try to go after their rapist (which is why most rapes aren't reported and rapists go free). The justice system is very very beyond fucked when it comes to rape cases.


A mini pat on the back to me for being able to talk about this stuff with strangers and not be triggered. I think it's important to talk about, but holy shit it's difficult.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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WhiteNachos said:
Lil devils x said:
This would depend. Rape is a form of torture, death is the end.
What about rape where the victim is unconscious and may not even realize they've been raped? Is that still torture?
Yes, simply because they sedated you to remove your fingernail it would still be considered torture because you have to live with this having been done to you afterwards, sure you will heal but that does not take away from the fact that this burden and abuse was forced upon you against your will. Unlike what some may think, women can tell when they have been penetrated, you can feel this AFTERWARDS as well. Anal penetration for both males and females can be quite physically painful as well. They still have to live with this rape having happened to them, it is entirely up to the circumstance and the individual though how that it affects their life. They could be given an STD, they could be impregnated, they could have had their virginity taken, damage could have been done physically and then of course there are many psychological factors involved as well to be considered regardless of if the person was conscious or unconscious during the attack.
 

chadachada123

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inu-kun said:
I'm going to get crucified for this but it must be said:

Not only is murder far far worse than rape, rape is completely equivelant to torture and can be said to be just a different type of it.

I think the reason people think that rape is so bad is born of sexism, the notion that women that were raped are now "less" off a women or "defiled" is drilled into our heads from a young age causing us to view the act as ridiculously bad (it's still a pretty horrible thing to do) and make the victims think of themselves as lesser people.
This more or less fit my thoughts exactly. That said, I would, personally, prefer a swift death to torture (of the prolonged variety).
 

one squirrel

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Anyone who thinks that living with being raped is worse than being dead should also be advocating for the euthanasia of rape victims. Just putting it out there.
 

Falling_v1legacy

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one squirrel said:
Anyone who thinks that living with being raped is worse than being dead should also be advocating for the euthanasia of rape victims. Just putting it out there.
Not necessarily. It depends what actually happens when you die. Do you cease to exist? I could see then thinking that murder is worse because a life was entirely snuffed out. On the otherhand... (tangent into Religion and Politics thread.) Regardless, there are some presuppositions that would be worth examining before jumping straight to application. Forcing belief consistency without understanding the premise leads nowhere.

In that vein, I assume we are talking about First Degree murder rather than Manslaughter- because as much as people are arguing murder is worse because dead is dead, the punishment deserving of the crime sees more than dead is dead- Going this route, I suppose falling off a roof and dying is worse than rape because dead is dead. But what matters just as much is the perpetrator.

In my opinion, a rapist ought to get Life just as much as a First Degree murderer.
 

Nieroshai

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Someone who has been raped can still live a meaningful life, albeit tinged by the experience. Someone who has been killed can't live at all. What's worse: violating someone's human rights for mere moments, or violating someone's primary human right permanently?
 

renegade7

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Murder, without question. You can recover from rape. You can't recover from being dead.

I don't see how it's more complicated than that.