Poll: Role reversal legend of zelda

I.Muir

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So there was this idea of a Zelda role reversal kicking around for a while now and more recently this thing -
http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/47724463171/inspired-by-anita-sarkeesians-video-game-tropes

Now I really don't like Anita Sarkessian due to presenting her opinions of facts and she manipulates people. I almost ignored what I think is a fairly interesting interpretation of a Zelda game because of this one detail. I don't think a mere role reversal is progressive and despite what Anita thinks Zelda herself has never been a weak character. In this interpretation Link IS a weak character which isn't the same thing as not fleshed out. It seems a little hypocritical to make Link seem like a weak and naive bureaucrat. Unless you find out Link did spend half his time as some kind of ninja or thief because hes bored or something which would make him a true Zelda replacement in the same situation.

Still if it was turned into a genuine game would you buy it? As a long time fan of the series I might after seeing what the game play is like, I bought skyward sword after all and I only liked two of it's dungeons.

Your thoughts?
 

Maxtro

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I'd be more interested in a game where you play as Zelda who goes on her own adventure and Link has a very small part. He can just stay in his home village.
 

I.Muir

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Maxtro said:
I'd be more interested in a game where you play as Zelda who goes on her own adventure and Link has a very small part. He can just stay in his home village.
Zelda pirate funtime
Sheiken ninja adventures
 

Gatx

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You could just make always have a female Link and a prince Zelda (make it like a last name or something, but then again I guess the last name has to be Hyrule related?) You get that gender role reversal that's so big these days in the gender discussions as well keeping the traditional Hero's Journey of a simple country bumpkin saving a member of royalty and defeating a great evil.

But yeah I do get the sense that Zelda is getting way more fleshing out here. She basically serves the role of both Link and Zelda in a traditional Zelda game, while Link has less of a role than Zelda does.
 

The Madman

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I think it would be a fantastic idea, but then again the Zelda games have never really been big on characterization or character growth anyway so beyond the novelty of playing as a female protagonist instead of a male one, there'd probably be no other real difference.

And as always Aaron Diaz art is amazing, now if only he'd update his webcomic more than once every full moon.
 

Asuka Soryu

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I don't really see the point? Why not just make a game with different characters that takes place in the same world, with a female hero? Role reversal seems pointless and odd.

Though, it could make for a paralel world story? Link gets tired of saving everyone and getting no real thanks, he grows tired and sour, eventually turning dark and Zelda has to train to confront him. They both end up killing each other after confessing their feelings, Zelda still holding onto the light of Link and her love of his former self while the dark Link has gone numb to it and they end up killing each other, Zelda killing Link and Link admitting that he still did love her, despite all that happened and with a smile he falls down dead, Zelda slowly walks out and collapses, dieing from her severe wounds.
 

Dalisclock

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I'd be interested in a zelda game where once again, Zelda gets Kidnapped and Link has to rescue her. So he starts on his quest. The interesting part comes where at some point in the game, you switch over to playing zelda, who then facilitates her own escape from imprisonment and goes on her own set of adventures. Every so often, the PC switchs between Link and Zelda, maybe every other chapter or so, until they finally meet up somewhere near the end to kick some giant piggy butt. Either have them in different parts of the world until then or somehow keep missing each other("Oh link went down into that hole, searching for you." "Yeah, Zelda was here, but had to go deal with something. She'll be back soon").

Another idea would be to have them meet up and either tag-team or have to separate every so often to accomplish two things at once.
 

CrimsonBlaze

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Maxtro said:
First of all,


"Dude, do something about your gif, man. It's making me paranoid."

Anyway, I'm fine with this new take on The LoZ franchise and having Zelda as the new heroine. I just wish that it were called something different, to distinguish this series from the others while still remaining in context. Since "The Legend of Zelda" stars Link, why not have the games that star Zelda called "The Legacy of Link."

Just a suggestion.

P.S. I'm just joking about the gif. But seriously, it does make me a little paranoid*.
[sub][sub]*Huge bodies, large proportions, but tiny heads.[/sub][/sub]
 

Neverhoodian

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Actually, Zelda has been the heroine in two games already:

Hey, I never said they were GOOD games...

Anyway, it's definitely an intriguing concept. I'm digging the artwork and thematic nods to previous Zelda titles.
 

ThePuzzldPirate

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NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

I have gotten into huge arguments about this many times. This is not me against Zelda being the main protagonist of her own game but this version is such a horrible idea. Nevermind the fact even with what little we have to work with when it comes to depth of Zelda's character, this is not Zelda. What kind of message is it to girls (if we are going off of Anita's argument) after how many games with Link as the main, that for you to be strong, you have to pretend to be a man?

Doing just a gender-swap would be more harming than good. It would be extremely lazy in design and in writing. Zelda is a bad role model not because she is a frilly princess or is getting captured all the time bu rather because there is no depth of reasoning for those things. We never see her do her political work of running the kingdom, we never see her practice being the Triforce of Wisdom.

Girlishness is not a weakness and it is sad that I have to argue this point with feminists(most of the time however, white knights.) I understand that good things will come with more female protagonist but only if you offer the depth that male characters have reached. IF people actually looked at our Male characters, they would realize it is a bad idea because compared to other mediums(stories, music) we aren't that much better off, we just play as male more often.
 

gazumped

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I really like Aaron Diaz's design there and the steampunky elements excite me. I'd love to play a Link that looked like that.

But that's the thing, isn't it... it's not Zelda there, he's just given Link a slightly rounder chest and a purple tunic.

I have seen a couple of designs (in response to Diaz's design) that have played more with the idea of Zelda as a more feminine hero -


"Zelda: Pirate Princess" - Design by Blue Delliquanti


"Warrior Princess Zelda" - Design by Maya Kern

But I find it a difficult one. Arguably, Diaz's design would suggest that Zelda has to look and act like a boy to be the hero. Arguably, Delliquanti and Kern's designs suggest that she would have to have some noticeably 'feminine' features to count as a female hero such as high heels or a pastel coloured outfit.

The thing is, all a female hero really needs to be identifiable as a female is to be referred to as 'she' and 'her'. Because some girls dress 'like boys' or 'like girls' but it's all just bullshit projection anyway, a tunic wouldn't make Zelda less of a girl really. But if you're using a franchise where the hero has always been a male, people will see Zelda up against the long running male protagonist and she will always be in Link's shadow.

I do think we need far more games with female protagonists (yes, sales will initially take a dip unfortunately, but the only way to break male gamers* out of this ridiculous idea that only games with male protagonists are worth playing is to MAKE MORE GAMES WITH FEMALE PROTAGONISTS WORTH PLAYING) but I don't think that the way to do it is to break into a franchise with an established male protagonist. I mean, I'd love to see a Zelda-centred game (the CD-i games of course do not count!), but just for the sake of being able to play as Zelda (who I love because she is amazing, not because she is female), not for the sake of levelling the playing field, as I'm not convinced it would help much there.

*Edit: In case I have the misfortune of running into any reactionary posters, this does not mean all male gamers think like this, but that games developers are being reluctant to make such games because of the many male gamers that (apparently) think like this, like Jim Stering covered a few weeks ago. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7044-The-Creepy-Cull-of-Female-Protagonists
 

Auron

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Zelda was always a badass. Either as a Sage of supreme magic, wise rebel agitator(resistance against Ganon) or sheik. Sarkesian only pitches her as a weak princess to further her brainwashing goals. Making Link useless is a terrible terrible concept, in practically every Zelda game now the chosen one has been Link in some form while Zelda was there to direct him and help him. It's part of the world structure and I don't think breaking it is a good idea. A spin-off about Sheik's adventures while Link disappeared in Ocarina or a world where he died would be interesting however.

I think the path to "equality" is giving more options in games, much like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, while you may tell me it's not viable for most games or genres it's perfectly possible. Rockman X 4 onwards mostly all had a choice between Zero and Rock, it's pretty simple to do the same in most games save for recording every voice acting line in twice in some genres.

but the only way to break male gamers* out of this ridiculous idea that only games with male protagonists are worth playing is to MAKE MORE GAMES WITH FEMALE PROTAGONISTS WORTH PLAYING)
I've seem female forumers here say they relate far less to male protagonists in games, I have the same belief generally and dislike having female avatars. Don't see what's wrong with it, why must harmless opinion and preference be wrong in the name of being progressive? I'm not at all against more options or more games with female leads I just have no interest in playing them. If my opinion on the matter is the same as the (perceived) majority and publishers are afraid to gamble on it, am I wrong? Should I do something I don't enjoy in the name of being fair to women? I ask with no sarcasm by the way.
 

gazumped

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Auron said:
I've seem female forumers here say they relate far less to male protagonists in games, I have the same belief generally and dislike having female avatars. Don't see what's wrong with it, why must harmless opinion and preference be wrong in the name of being progressive? I'm not at all against more options or more games with female leads I just have no interest in playing them. If my opinion on the matter is the same as the (perceived) majority and publishers are afraid to gamble on it, am I wrong? Should I do something I don't enjoy in the name of being fair to women? I ask with no sarcasm by the way.
Relating less to a protagonist is one thing, disliking playing them is another. As male protagonists kind of saturate the media, females kind of have to learn to be able to put themselves in male shoes or else they're not going to be able to enjoy the majority of entertainment out there, unless they're going to solely stick to the romance genre. Male consumers (if the games developers are to be believed) have a harder time enjoying female protagonists, perhaps because they are not used to being put in the minds of females. And this is only going to be something that they're going to get over if there's more stuff out there to get them used to it.

In essence, it's not that you shouldn't enjoy yourself to be more fair to women, it's that if it were more fair to women, you'd probably enjoy it more.

But as you say, you're still going to relate less to those protagonists, just as female gamers relate less to male protagonists. Just as black people relate less to white protagonists. Just as gay people relate less to straight protagonists. The only way to really get around this is to make every game have a customisable protagonist à la Mass Effect which obviously just isn't going to work for some platforms or stories, which is unfortunate.
 

itsthesheppy

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Not really sure what you're getting at. Are you asking, would I play a game with Zelda as the main character? Possibly. I'd ask the same question I ask of every game ever: how does it play?

If the game comes with good gameplay and a solid story, sure.
 

ItsNotRudy

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The drawings just look like Link with breasts. I don't see anything of Princess Zelda in her.

I know it's going for the whole feminist her der hear us roar kinda thing, but why does the most feminine character in the series have to change into a boy with a generous A-cup.
 

McFazzer

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I don't care about all that really, but after reading the FAQ linked on that page I want some Twilight Magic.
 

go-10

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I think I'd prefer it if instead of a reversal it was a story where Link has been defeated by Ganon who has taken the kingdom of Hyrule and changed it to his image and a much younger Zelda (10 or 11 years old) is taken by Impa into the hidden village where she is taught the ways of the Sheikans and is trained by Impa to also fight like a Hyrulian knight

fast forward 7 or 8 years and Zelda is coming back to free her people and retake the throne that is rightfully hers. She uses the royal blade and a magic shield to fight for her people as a Hylian knight and when the situation calls for it she doubles as Sheik and does covert stealth missions against the Ganon army, sort of acts as a Ghost or a Black Ops member


I think that would be more enjoyable than simply having the exact same story that we already have except Link is now called Zelda, MIGHT have a little bump on his chest and Zelda dresses like a dude and calls herself Link