Poll: Role reversal legend of zelda

[Diddy_Mao]

Hmm. While I respect the bejeezus out of Aaron Diaz as a writer and character designer I'm not sure I really buy into the game pitch he's got going on here.

Let me clarify. I'd probably play a LoZ game as he's designed and pitched here. It looks good and has a solid concept. That is all entirely to his credit. But if the intention was to create a LoZ game with Zelda as the hero I think Diaz got a little side tracked because what we've been given is a game of simple role reversals and gender swapping.

Making Zelda the hero because...reasons isn't really doing the concept justice.

For my money if you want to make this concept work then you keep Zelda as the Princess of Hyrule and use that as the jumping off point for her own adventure and motivation.

Just off the top of my head.

Firstly quit yanking my crank with the "big reveal" of Ganondorf as the villain and just start the game off in a Hyrule that's already been conquered. Enter Zelda and her small group of associates (one of whom would probably be Link fulfilling the role of childhood friend) Everyone knows she's the rightful heir to the throne but the Hyleans are a broken people without the strength, or courage to fight back.

The overall thrust of the story would be to slowly rally the Hylean people as well as the other races of the land as a united force against Ganon.

Boom there you go. Adventure story featuring princess Zelda that allows her to play the role of hero and adventurer and the role of charismatic leader and protector of her people.

Is it a perfect story? No, I just slapped it together without much thought. But I think it serves the intended goal of "LoZ story with Zelda as protagonist" more than "Link, but with boobs" does.

 

[traineesword]

And also to dress a bit more feminine. I'm really trying to not come across as sexist here but what is the point if she almost looks like and seems to act like a man?

That's my problem with it too. I don't think you need to have her dressed up as purple Link to make her a proper female character.

To me, this way of thinking is completely missing the point.

If Zelda were in the role of Link, why would she not look and dress similar to him? We have a character that is leading a humble, active, adventurous life style. Fighting monsters, jumping around death traps, wielding a wide variety of weapons and traveling across the world. Doesn't having short hair make sense to that role? Doesn't wearing simple, practical clothing that doesn't accentuate your figure make sense to that role? Wouldn't looking like a dainty princess seem a bit backwards? We only associate these roles with being masculine because it is a role almost entirely occupied by male characters, but for what reason? The point is reducing that gender association to be more neutral so any gender can occupy a role seamlessly, and arbitrarily adding in feminine elements that serve no actual character purpose is just going to contrast them.

Which isn't to say that a character's design always has to be 100% practical to the role they are in with absolutely no space for stylistic flair or visual appeal, but impractical female design is already something we have a dreadful over abundance of. We want to break away from the norm. here.

In the Hyrule: Total War screenshots. It makes more sense for Zelda to look more feminine, since she was in her role as a princess leading up to the time of battle. However, giving her a bright pink, lightly armored outfit that forms to her body, with dainty gloves and a skirt doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for someone out on a battle field. We have her put into a role, and her outfit is senselessly differs from others doing the same thing as her, just for the sake of femininity, at the expense of any semblance of practicality.
Once again, this is not to say she needs the same static, uniform outfit as everyone else, especially given that she is royalty; but it is a design that has little logic to it aside from trying to force a feminine look where it has no place. Something we already see all over the place.

I totally agree with your points. I've been sat here struggling for far too much time thinking about what I originally wanted to say and how to properly get it across this time around; because what I really don't want is for people to read my post and think that I want Zelda to look like "a dainty princess" in a game where she is the hero. It hurts to think that is what it looked like I was trying to say.

I guess what I wanted to say is that I don't think that we need to completely sacrifice her feminine qualities to make sure people would recognize she was the Hero. It seems the more I think about it though, the less that is even the case here. I'm thinking more in real-life terms, that a woman shouldn't have to dress "how a man would" to be acknowledged on equal terms, in the same way that they shouldn't have to wear a dress because they are a woman.
It doesn't apply the same way here, because obviously we can assume that our heroine has dressed herself for the purpose of going on an adventure and that no-one is judging her for it (apart from, ironically, me >.>). Plus, her other outfits are pretty rad. I suppose I was just worried that she was sacrificing her femininity by dressing up as a man in order to be acknowledged, but after some thought I suppose that isn't the case, because it is not a man's outfit, in the same way that the role of the hero is not a man's role. It's gender neutral. It can be donned by anyone, regardless of their sex.

(Though I do still quite like her Total War outfit. There is something quite fire-emblemy about it that I like, the minimalistic-ness I suppose. But I am rambling and possibly digging myself into a hole again, so I'll stop)

Final point: Very good and well thought out post! Please don't think I won't accept a Female Hero unless she's in a dress! I'm not too good at getting my points across.

 

[Sabitsuki]

I totally agree with your points. I've been sat here struggling for far too much time thinking about what I originally wanted to say and how to properly get it across this time around; because what I really don't want is for people to read my post and think that I want Zelda to look like "a dainty princess" in a game where she is the hero. It hurts to think that is what it looked like I was trying to say.

I guess what I wanted to say is that I don't think that we need to completely sacrifice her feminine qualities to make sure people would recognize she was the Hero. It seems the more I think about it though, the less that is even the case here. I'm thinking more in real-life terms, that a woman shouldn't have to dress "how a man would" to be acknowledged on equal terms, in the same way that they shouldn't have to wear a dress because they are a woman.
It doesn't apply the same way here, because obviously we can assume that our heroine has dressed herself for the purpose of going on an adventure and that no-one is judging her for it (apart from, ironically, me >.>). Plus, her other outfits are pretty rad. I suppose I was just worried that she was sacrificing her femininity by dressing up as a man in order to be acknowledged, but after some thought I suppose that isn't the case, because it is not a man's outfit, in the same way that the role of the hero is not a man's role. It's gender neutral. It can be donned by anyone, regardless of their sex.

(Though I do still quite like her Total War outfit. There is something quite fire-emblemy about it that I like, the minimalistic-ness I suppose. But I am rambling and possibly digging myself into a hole again, so I'll stop)

Final point: Very good and well thought out post! Please don't think I won't accept a Female Hero unless she's in a dress! I'm not too good at getting my points across.

All perfectly valid and agreeable feelings. I was perhaps a bit more aggressive in my post than I intended to sound, I didn't mean to portray you as demanding a female character dress womanly. I just wanted to express why I thought putting in a level femininity just for femininity's sake didn't make sense from a practical stand point, and why I think this was a very positive example of a female character.

I will say just for the record I am a very tomboyish person, and a design like the one Aaron Diaz showed us is something that really resonates with me on a personal level. It is something I very much want to see done more often. To that regard, there is positively a level of personal bias in the types of design I do and do not press for. I feel more valid in what I am saying since the concept itself presents a lot of blank slate to project onto, and passively supports the the things I already want in character design. Defending my views from the perspective of practicality isn't always a good thing though, since character design is comprised of more than simply being practical.

Such as with the Total War Zelda design. Despite what I said about the practicality of her outfit, I don't find it wrong to say that her design could be decidedly more lady-like compared to other soldiers on the field. As a Princess it makes sense for her character, and that itself carries an appeal to certain audiences who might not like to see her in a dull suit of armor. It's a different perspective that can reasoned for, even if it's not something I myself like. We're clearly split on whether or not her design appeals to us, and I'm sure we could go back and forth on what we think could change or stay, but that's a different kind of discussion. There is nothing wrong with desire a level of feminine image in a character that it actually makes sense for.

I say this because I don't want to make it seem like I believe people should be apologetic for desiring a certain level feminine appeal in characters. There are just as many poor implications when it comes to needlessly stamping out feminine traits as tossing them in without basis beyond gender. It all just comes down to putting thought into when they should be part of a character, and if it's for a valid reason.