Poll: Rumpelstiltskin Villain or Victim?

[KoalaKid]

I purpose that Rumpelstiltskin is the victim in this classic fairytale. Although I am sure most of you know the story here is the way I see it:

1. In order to make himself appear more important, a miller lied and said that his daughter could spin straw into gold. here we see that the father is a liar and a braggart.

2. The king heard of this and called for the girl, shut her in a tower room with straw and a spinning wheel, and demanded that she spin the straw into gold by morning, for three nights, or be executed. okay, we know the kings a greedy murdering nuttsack right from the start.

3. She had given up all hope, when a gnomish creature appeared in the room and spun straw into gold for her in return for her necklace, then again the following night for her ring. On the third night, when she had nothing with which to reward him, the strange creature spun straw into gold for a promise that the girl's first-born child would become his. Alright our man Rumpelstiltskin shows up and saves her life by doing the impossible not once, but three times! and all he asks for is some cheap jewelry, and a baby that she may or may not one day have, sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

4. The king was so impressed that he married the miller's daughter. Yeah, that's right through Rumpelstiltskin's skills alone this woman is made a queen.

5. The now queen miller's daughter has a child and old Rumpy comes to collect what's rightfully his.

6. The ungrateful queen tries to back out of the deal! and Rumpelstiltskin being the nice guy that he is gives her a way out. He tells her if she can guess his name in three days that she can keep the child.

7. Queen ***** cheats and sends out a spy to figure out Rumpelstiltskin's name.

8. Lastly the queen pretends to guess his name correctly and Rumps is so mad at this point that he rips himself in half.


So what do you think was Rumpelstiltskin the victim or am i completely wrong? tell me what you think.

 

[shadyh8er]

I still say he's a villain. Asking for someone's first-born child is just unforgivable. He could've waited until she got something else of value, seeing as how she became a queen and all.

Also ripping yourself in half just because you were denied a small child seems a bit harsh.

 

[Leon Last Lord Shyle]

While I do believe he was the victim a contact was made and she did not live up to it I will just say.

You do not fuck with a mother when it comes to her kids because there anything goes.

So yea victim but a damn idiotic one he should have asked for something that would not have illicited such a response.

 

[Risingblade]

No woman would sleep with him so he was lonely and wanted his own child to raise?

 

[KoalaKid]

No woman would sleep with him so he was lonely and wanted his own child to raise?

That could have been the reason. If the child had been given to him he would have probable have taught him magic too.

 

[KoalaKid]

I still say he's a villain. Asking for someone's first-born child is just unforgivable. He could've waited until she got something else of value, seeing as how she became a queen and all.

Also ripping yourself in half just because you were denied a small child seems a bit harsh.

She could have said no or tried to make a different deal with him if she thought the price was to steep, but she agreed, and gave her promise.

 

[smearyllama]

You do not fuck with a mother when it comes to her kids because there anything goes.

As evidenced by...

Spoiler

GET AWAY FROM HER YOU *****!!!!!

OT: I say he's still a villain.
He did make her a very immoral deal. Even if it was her who agreed to the terms, she was under pressure, and needed a solution.
In a court of law, the odds would be pretty even for both of them.
In a matter of ethics, he's still wrong.

 

[Trivun]

I still say villain, purely because of the earliest versions of the story, which contain more rape, gore and blood and murder and such. Like all fairy tales did. Yep, they weren't so innocent years ago. However, I'll grant that a version could easily be written from old Rumpy Pumpy's point of view, that shows him as the victim instead. The same can be done with anything, really. History is written by the victors, they say. Well, apparently so are fairy tales, it seems ;D.

 

[shadyh8er]

I still say he's a villain. Asking for someone's first-born child is just unforgivable. He could've waited until she got something else of value, seeing as how she became a queen and all.

Also ripping yourself in half just because you were denied a small child seems a bit harsh.

She could have said no or tried to make a different deal with him if she thought the price was to steep, but she agreed, and gave her promise.

Then she fulfilled a requirement to void the contract thus making the whole thing a moot point. Not the queen's fault he likes to sing his name out loud.

 

[Latinidiot]

Jezus what a name. Rumpetstiltskilt. Sounds like an awful way to break your tongue.

Oh! Now I remember what he's called in Dutch: Repelsteeltje!(Ray-pel-still-tchuh)

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Victim. If I offer you something, but want something in return, you have a choice. Don't want to give him what he wants? Don't make the agreement to begin with. You have no right to his labor for free.

Trying to find out his "True Name" (in the first verison of the story) to get out of a otherwise legaly binding agreement is wrong. But then again, he did offer her a way out of that to, so I guess he had it coming.

 

[Timotheus]

No, you just haven't understood the concept, it's a social parable.

Rumpelstilzchen is the only one possessing the power to transform straw into gold, which is a creation of value. He holds control of the means of production. The young girl depends on his will and therefore is the proletariat (which funnily enough in the origin of the term means the ones possessing nothing but your descendants), confronted with the harsh reality of the need to produce something in order to survive.
Rumpelstilzchen abuses his unique, monopolistic power, an act that for himself actually isn't really demanding, but is considered the most important (comparable to capital)in the process of production, in order to gain control over a human being!
But by discovering name and therefore the nature of this interest-ridden slavery, the princess is able to overcome capitalism.

Or it may just be an ordinary fairy tale.

 

[KoalaKid]

I still say villain, purely because of the earliest versions of the story, which contain more rape, gore and blood and murder and such. Like all fairy tales did. Yep, they weren't so innocent years ago. However, I'll grant that a version could easily be written from old Rumpy Pumpy's point of view, that shows him as the victim instead. The same can be done with anything, really. History is written by the victors, they say. Well, apparently so are fairy tales, it seems ;D.

I haven't read any of the earliest versions of the story so I cannot speculate on that matter, but I do sympathize with The Rumpmaster he is the only one in the story who is honest, and He saves this woman's life three times under impossible conditions.

 

[JWRosser]

Tragic villain, perhaps?

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

It's complex, but he's more villain than victim.

The girl's life was at stake, so she agreed to give up her first child under extreme duress. These are unfair conditions in which to make an agreement like this.

Then, when she found out his name, he had never specifically said that she couldn't use a spy to discover it, so technically she didn't break any rules.

The father and the king were worse villains, though.

 

[Lucane]

If he can spin straw into gold what's he need/want her jewelry for? other than to bait her into what he really wants like a pool/card shark they start you off thinking you're getting the better deal to get you offer a whole lot at once. Besides it seems for him to make gold from straw isn't that big of a deal so asking her for her 1st born seems a little unfair when she wasn't expecting to marry the king or even had a boyfriend at the time.

He could of just asked for her second child or demand such that he receive one in X years time or have the gold he spun returned with interest.

 

[DJDarque]

I think everyone is a villain. The father is a villain for lying and putting her in this position. The king is a villain for willing to kill her for her father's lies. Rumpelstiltskin is a villain for making an unfair deal with her under dire circumstances. And lastly, she is a villain for using dishonest tactics to learn his name.

Although from what I heard it was a random traveler that heard his name and told her, not a spy she sent out. That makes it a little different.

 

[KoalaKid]

No, you just haven't understood the concept, it's a social parable.

Rumpelstilzchen is the only one possessing the power to transform straw into gold, which is a creation of value. He holds control of the means of production. The young girl depends on his will and therefore is the proletariat (which funnily enough in the origin of the term means the ones' possessing nothing but your descendants), confronted with the harsh reality of the need to produce something in order to survive.
Rumpelstilzchen abuses his unique, monopolistic power, an act that for himself actually isn't really demanding, but is considered the most important (comparable to capital)in the process of production, in order to gain control over a human being!
But by discovering name and therefore the nature of this interest-ridden slavery, the princess is able to overcome capitalism.

Or it may just be an ordinary fairy tale.

In terms of capitalism if you had an extremely unique still or invented a revolutionary product would you not want to be paid for your work? Rumpelstiltskin didn't put her in the dire situation that she found herself in, but he was the only one that offered her a way out. also this way out not only saved her neck but made her a queen! Rumpelstiltskin didn't make her an indentured servant or slave, he simply asked to adopt he first born. although at first this may appere to be a steep price we have to take into account that he saved her life three times and made her queen, and after that even gave her a chance to get out of the deal.

 

[KoalaKid]

I still say he's a villain. Asking for someone's first-born child is just unforgivable. He could've waited until she got something else of value, seeing as how she became a queen and all.

Also ripping yourself in half just because you were denied a small child seems a bit harsh.

She could have said no or tried to make a different deal with him if she thought the price was to steep, but she agreed, and gave her promise.

Then she fulfilled a requirement to void the contract thus making the whole thing a moot point. Not the queen's fault he likes to sing his name out loud.

I disagree, the requirement to void the contract was for her to (Guess) Rumpelstiltskin's name not for her to send a spy out to find it and inform her of it. By cheating in this way she has broken their agreement and is at fault. throughout the story we see that unlike the rest of the characters Rumpelstiltskin never lies or cheats, and always upholds his end of the bargain, so who is the villain? not Rumpy.